What to do with DEFO who can't fly
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Eh - from the clip looks like the questionnaire isn't biased on race/ gender etc, it is biasing against geeks & aviation geeks. I.e. being good at high school sports (teamwork, thinking & reacting under pressure) probably is a good thing vs being good at chemistry. More points for not having worked before - bias to fresh graduates for ab intitio training. Looks more aimed at getting a more diverse group of personalities to the next rounds rather than introverted nerds/ people who washed out of being a pilot.
As long as the next rounds are as rigorous as before, it won't impact end safety I would think .
As long as the next rounds are as rigorous as before, it won't impact end safety I would think .
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https://www.newsday.com/news/nation/...nce-1.11725723
Older story. Didn't realise that US had college degrees for ATC, and before this FAA pretty much only took them or military. This looks to be bringing it more in line with Europe or Australia (psychometric test at the start, no need to have studied ATC as a degree) So basically the people who wnt to college to study ATC and now find that it doesn't give them an advantage over people who did non-ATC related degrees are the ones sueing. Snowflakes indeed!
Be interesting to know if the "CTI" colleges are supporting the lawsuit - they do say enrollment is dropping.
Of course all systems are different, but this does look a good idea. Why limit your pool of applicants to only those who had done an ATC degree/ military when yiu need to expand hiring? Seems silly to put a two-three year gate at the start.
Older story. Didn't realise that US had college degrees for ATC, and before this FAA pretty much only took them or military. This looks to be bringing it more in line with Europe or Australia (psychometric test at the start, no need to have studied ATC as a degree) So basically the people who wnt to college to study ATC and now find that it doesn't give them an advantage over people who did non-ATC related degrees are the ones sueing. Snowflakes indeed!
Be interesting to know if the "CTI" colleges are supporting the lawsuit - they do say enrollment is dropping.
Of course all systems are different, but this does look a good idea. Why limit your pool of applicants to only those who had done an ATC degree/ military when yiu need to expand hiring? Seems silly to put a two-three year gate at the start.
Last edited by Freehills; 3rd Jun 2018 at 09:11.
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Some advice for the STC ‘s and trainers that dealt with this individual . Download and keep your training reports on file , because if something goes wrong the CAD will investigate and I suspect that your reports will be magically sanitised . You may well need the originals at an investigation inquiry .
This transfer from one type to another has been going on for some time now . Can’t fly one type , try another ,usually from the 747 to the Bus , unless of course the individual had upset someone in the office in which case it was sayonara
Having flown both Boeing types, a two engine approach on the jumbo is more challenging than an engine inop approach on the 777 but neither is beyond the capabilities of any good pilot. Some are better than others as in everything in life
This transfer from one type to another has been going on for some time now . Can’t fly one type , try another ,usually from the 747 to the Bus , unless of course the individual had upset someone in the office in which case it was sayonara
Having flown both Boeing types, a two engine approach on the jumbo is more challenging than an engine inop approach on the 777 but neither is beyond the capabilities of any good pilot. Some are better than others as in everything in life
This thread made me think about a conversation from a few weeks ago.
I had the pleasure of catching up with a group of old friends from over the years. We had all trained or worked together in some capacity. After a few beers, we started reminiscing about funny stories and some individuals that we knew were never going to "make it" in aviation.
Some were fired for doing incredibly dumb things, some could never pass the exams or flight tests and then there were the ones you wouldn't trust to fly a kite.
What we found incredible was that nearly half of these individuals have been employed by cx as SO's in the last 12 months.
A few in in the group admitted applying to cx simply as a back up to the the other 10 back up plans. We all agreed that hell would need to to freeze over for us to leave our current airlines (mix of LCCS, regionals and mainline) to go to cx. It was all a bit funny until I realised it wasn't.
When I started flying (early 2000s) I would have loved to work for cx. We looked at our friends that made it into cx with envy. We knew that they were the best. Now many of those friends are back working with us. Amazing how things can change in 15 years. I hope it changes back one day.
I had the pleasure of catching up with a group of old friends from over the years. We had all trained or worked together in some capacity. After a few beers, we started reminiscing about funny stories and some individuals that we knew were never going to "make it" in aviation.
Some were fired for doing incredibly dumb things, some could never pass the exams or flight tests and then there were the ones you wouldn't trust to fly a kite.
What we found incredible was that nearly half of these individuals have been employed by cx as SO's in the last 12 months.
A few in in the group admitted applying to cx simply as a back up to the the other 10 back up plans. We all agreed that hell would need to to freeze over for us to leave our current airlines (mix of LCCS, regionals and mainline) to go to cx. It was all a bit funny until I realised it wasn't.
When I started flying (early 2000s) I would have loved to work for cx. We looked at our friends that made it into cx with envy. We knew that they were the best. Now many of those friends are back working with us. Amazing how things can change in 15 years. I hope it changes back one day.
Not my intention at all Austral. I genuinely feel for you guys and I hope things get back to what they used to be.
There was also (perhaps) a subtle hint for the cx skippers in my post. If I Was the one in the bunk over the ITCZ at night, I wouldnt sleep too easy.
There was also (perhaps) a subtle hint for the cx skippers in my post. If I Was the one in the bunk over the ITCZ at night, I wouldnt sleep too easy.
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Believe me, few of us do.
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I agree with Scoreboard...as much as you don’t want to, you simply have to leave the cockpit and rest at some point. Everyone with a sentient brain knows there is a problem with experience levels in the cockpit, but feel constrained from voicing it to the decision makers.
I believe that this has all come to pass due in large part to the outcome of how thoroughly the Company destroyed the union after the firing of 49 pilots. This nuclear strike ended the industrial standoff in 2001 and left the field wide open. That action destroyed the union and resulted in no resistance to a constant stream of concessions and lowering of hiring standards, that continued unabated to this day. People and organizations require check and balance. The non-payment of the traditional 13th month bonus, which was paid to all the other flying staff in Cathay and Dragon...just not to Cathay pilot’s, was the final straw. The four year contract compliance campaign and the training ban have finally produced the leverage required. For the time being, check and balance has returned.
I believe that this has all come to pass due in large part to the outcome of how thoroughly the Company destroyed the union after the firing of 49 pilots. This nuclear strike ended the industrial standoff in 2001 and left the field wide open. That action destroyed the union and resulted in no resistance to a constant stream of concessions and lowering of hiring standards, that continued unabated to this day. People and organizations require check and balance. The non-payment of the traditional 13th month bonus, which was paid to all the other flying staff in Cathay and Dragon...just not to Cathay pilot’s, was the final straw. The four year contract compliance campaign and the training ban have finally produced the leverage required. For the time being, check and balance has returned.
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It's quite predictable that an organization whose management is based on arrogance and intimidation will eventually overstep the "line". In this case, that moment arrived this past CNY when CX paid a full 13th month salary to all employees, other than the pilots (a percentage to FO's and SO's, and NOTHING to Captains). Additionally, they even granted a pay raise to all the other staff as well. Speaking for myself, that was the moment that the disrespect, contempt and malice that CX management feel towards me became too much to tolerate.
The result is an entire pilot workforce that is now actively working against the company's long term interests. In particular, I see a deliberate use of fuel to send a "message" to our management that we won't be treated in such an abusive fashion again (in my case the cost has already reached more than twice the amount that CX stole from me). A quiet talk with any number of my colleagues demonstrates a deep commitment to making sure that message is sent, and will continue to be so until such a time that there is firm evidence of a positive change of management attitude. I suspect that many millions of $$ more will need to be bled off the bottom line before those in power get the message. And they will get the message, if not through the action just mentioned, then by the ever increasing rate of resignation.
The result is an entire pilot workforce that is now actively working against the company's long term interests. In particular, I see a deliberate use of fuel to send a "message" to our management that we won't be treated in such an abusive fashion again (in my case the cost has already reached more than twice the amount that CX stole from me). A quiet talk with any number of my colleagues demonstrates a deep commitment to making sure that message is sent, and will continue to be so until such a time that there is firm evidence of a positive change of management attitude. I suspect that many millions of $$ more will need to be bled off the bottom line before those in power get the message. And they will get the message, if not through the action just mentioned, then by the ever increasing rate of resignation.
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An interesting observation: since February (when I first started asking the question), I have operated 9 long haul flights and 17 short haul. A total of 49 pilots that I have flown with (some long haul had different crew outbound/inbound). Of those 49, 33 indicated that they are planning on leaving in the near term. Of those 33, 25 had either already interviewed or had an interview date. Of the 49, each one knew of at least 1-4 persons who were also either interviewing or applying. Extrapolate those numbers over the entire pilot body and only a fool (CX management) would pretend there isn't a crisis approaching for this airline. Oh, and it's only the beginning of June...
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MM, I have had a very similar experience with my questioning of crew that I have been operating with. It is comical to think (and somewhat tragic) that members of our management are so blinded to the destruction they have caused that the Titanic is now sinking, and they are interviewing dockside bands to greet her in NY. In our case, the Titanic will sink without any crew, as they will all have long since departed.
