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I could say a lot on that and its all been said , its apples and oranges though. The fact is that Management are there to manage, their job is to keep shareholders happy. Ours is to fly planes. If we do that badly we pay. If they do badly we still pay. If you would like to be in management go for it but while you are a pilot you should fly, with your zip up and in a professional manner. You cannot seriously compare these two discussions. Im sure now if you caught management doing the same thing in the board room with a crew member they would be fired too...you can be sure of that!
Last edited by volarecantare; 20th Aug 2011 at 04:32. Reason: typo
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Or
Being a senior manager, find out their spouse is cheating, tie them to a chair and threaten to kill them with a knife for hours and then make the paper!
BUT! In true CX fashion, all is excused whilst being a Star Chamber Member
This was a long time ago but it did happen.
Double standards for eternity
Being a senior manager, find out their spouse is cheating, tie them to a chair and threaten to kill them with a knife for hours and then make the paper!
BUT! In true CX fashion, all is excused whilst being a Star Chamber Member
This was a long time ago but it did happen.
Double standards for eternity
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I never said that I believed Management have not over the years behaved in what I would consider a criminal fashion and gotten away with it, however, the fact is that we fly planes, and our behavior should inspire confidence. Regardless of what an ego does in a desk job their is no obvious direct psychological impact on passengers.
On the other hand, we know only too well that the decisions management take and the humiliation and fear mongering they do to us as a group does actually impact safety in that it damages our dignity and confidence, two things we need to do our jobs when well , yet we are expected to carry that burden. The general public are not as easily able to see that link.
There is a generic lack of morals and integrity at large today in most sectors of life the result of this is seen in financial, political, medical, religious and legal sectors as one by one those ego empires are collapsing causing international devastation. My question is, by backslapping this puerile and unprofessional behavior of a colleague, we are as bad as the rest. I think the man owes an apology to his colleagues for letting himself and the profession down and so does the woman.
I am not pontificating here on what people choose to do in their personal life but at least when they are being paid for a job they should take it seriously.
There is a lack of reverence prevailing and it is destroying many peoples lives.
On the other hand, we know only too well that the decisions management take and the humiliation and fear mongering they do to us as a group does actually impact safety in that it damages our dignity and confidence, two things we need to do our jobs when well , yet we are expected to carry that burden. The general public are not as easily able to see that link.
There is a generic lack of morals and integrity at large today in most sectors of life the result of this is seen in financial, political, medical, religious and legal sectors as one by one those ego empires are collapsing causing international devastation. My question is, by backslapping this puerile and unprofessional behavior of a colleague, we are as bad as the rest. I think the man owes an apology to his colleagues for letting himself and the profession down and so does the woman.
I am not pontificating here on what people choose to do in their personal life but at least when they are being paid for a job they should take it seriously.
There is a lack of reverence prevailing and it is destroying many peoples lives.
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On the other hand, we know only too well that the decisions management take and the humiliation and fear mongering they do to us as a group does actually impact safety in that it damages our dignity and confidence, two things we need to do our jobs when well , yet we are expected to carry that burden.
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Kitsune: VC is right, there is a lack of reverence for the necessary qualities of character that helped build civilisation. Btw, interesting that this was your 411th post. I'll leave you to figure out the relevance of that....
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Volare,
Your massive vocabulary, cultural sophistication, and moral compass are something the rest of us can only aspire to. I anxiously await your future words of wisdom. Perhaps on my next linecheck, you can teach me the intricacies of VNAV use within the terminal area.
Your massive vocabulary, cultural sophistication, and moral compass are something the rest of us can only aspire to. I anxiously await your future words of wisdom. Perhaps on my next linecheck, you can teach me the intricacies of VNAV use within the terminal area.
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Pontificating
Jeez VC, you must have led an incredibly boring life. Only one things defines us as pilots, our safety record, and nobody's perfect.
This was definitely not a sacking offence, no-one died, all airframes still intact not even an ASR filed, it didn't come near the safety aspect of our job. As mentioned previously FOPS(mis)managers in this company have endangered lives and have not been fired or even punished. This firing was purely out of spite. Their precious advertising was going to be tainted.
Lighten up a bit, instead of studying Latin.. next time have B*** job in cockpit on a turn-around.... but don't get caught!
This was definitely not a sacking offence, no-one died, all airframes still intact not even an ASR filed, it didn't come near the safety aspect of our job. As mentioned previously FOPS(mis)managers in this company have endangered lives and have not been fired or even punished. This firing was purely out of spite. Their precious advertising was going to be tainted.
Lighten up a bit, instead of studying Latin.. next time have B*** job in cockpit on a turn-around.... but don't get caught!
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Point taken, I can see its difficult enough maintain a conversation that doesn't begin and end with "Mate" or some toilet humour. Im afraid my life has been far from boring enough that I would need to seek schoolyard satisfaction on a turnaround as you suggest!
Sorry to have upset you Kitsune (you little japanese mythical fox you! Your level of intelligence suggests you haven't quite made the honorable 9 tails requirement yet to be respected as wise) and co. Will try in future to keep posts reachable to you.
If you don't have respect for yourself or your uniform then how do you think you can expect to be treated with respect by the media, management or the public. Your total lack of understanding between cause and effect is remarkable.
Their firing was not a spite it was a business decision. But no doubt that they are pleased to show that face of their piiots in preparation for the next time they screw us over our conditions.
There are a lot of decent guys and girls with decent families in our job and I do not think they deserve to be let down like this. I suspect also that the stars of these pictures agree with you now either. I do feel very sorry for the fact that their career and reputation has been smashed like this over such a bad judgment call I think that they should be receiving support from AOA and a good PR person, maybe they could use this situation to talk to the media about the culture of Cathay and raise awareness of the rotten core of the company and the history of managements crimes.
A good PR company could paint a picture of how management bend us over regularly and maybe this is the crews way of healing from that!
To do this though, would require a little better communication skills and intelligence than is demonstrated here on this board.
Sorry to have upset you Kitsune (you little japanese mythical fox you! Your level of intelligence suggests you haven't quite made the honorable 9 tails requirement yet to be respected as wise) and co. Will try in future to keep posts reachable to you.
If you don't have respect for yourself or your uniform then how do you think you can expect to be treated with respect by the media, management or the public. Your total lack of understanding between cause and effect is remarkable.
Their firing was not a spite it was a business decision. But no doubt that they are pleased to show that face of their piiots in preparation for the next time they screw us over our conditions.
There are a lot of decent guys and girls with decent families in our job and I do not think they deserve to be let down like this. I suspect also that the stars of these pictures agree with you now either. I do feel very sorry for the fact that their career and reputation has been smashed like this over such a bad judgment call I think that they should be receiving support from AOA and a good PR person, maybe they could use this situation to talk to the media about the culture of Cathay and raise awareness of the rotten core of the company and the history of managements crimes.
A good PR company could paint a picture of how management bend us over regularly and maybe this is the crews way of healing from that!
To do this though, would require a little better communication skills and intelligence than is demonstrated here on this board.
Last edited by volarecantare; 22nd Aug 2011 at 15:35.
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???
Volarecantmakesense:
First you tear our dear departed colleague a new one for his lack of professionalism and puerile behavior. Now you suggest the AOA should supply him with a PR rep to blame his behavior on management treatment of pilots? You are all over the map on this one...
First you tear our dear departed colleague a new one for his lack of professionalism and puerile behavior. Now you suggest the AOA should supply him with a PR rep to blame his behavior on management treatment of pilots? You are all over the map on this one...
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I am pretty sure Volancontare (or whatever the hell his name is) provides some very intresting cockpit conversation on those long HKG-LHR flights. Topics may include:
- The repainting of the Suffolk farmhouse conservatory with a nice Portuguese off-white.
- How his church group bake sale was a roaring success.
- The training provided at Hamble was far superior to that by the RAF, RN or any US military.
- Botany.
- English countryside birdwatching.
- His children's outstanding performance at their public preparatory school.
However, I have a funny feeling that his wife has hacked into his PPrune account and she is providing us normal pilots with morale and ethical direction. Thanks Mrs VC.
- The repainting of the Suffolk farmhouse conservatory with a nice Portuguese off-white.
- How his church group bake sale was a roaring success.
- The training provided at Hamble was far superior to that by the RAF, RN or any US military.
- Botany.
- English countryside birdwatching.
- His children's outstanding performance at their public preparatory school.
However, I have a funny feeling that his wife has hacked into his PPrune account and she is providing us normal pilots with morale and ethical direction. Thanks Mrs VC.
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Obviously ruffling a few feathers. Sorry ladies.
I'm quite chuffed Sherlock so you have gleamed and assumed from my posts that.
1. I am still happily married and
2. have happy successful children
3. hobbies interests outside work and a
4. a wife who would care enough about life to try to influence your moral direction...
How embarrassing is that!
Despite advocating that its OK to use a woman anywhere anytime to scratch your ego itches you also seem to believe only women have morals..
I realise to be one of your gang the picture would have to be a tad different!
It also seems you feel from razor sharp skills at forensic analysis that you feel we would have little in common! Im gutted.
Now if I was to guess the same about your lives from your posts... what would it be?
Capt Krunch sorry for the use of irony I see that one flew right over your head!
I'm quite chuffed Sherlock so you have gleamed and assumed from my posts that.
1. I am still happily married and
2. have happy successful children
3. hobbies interests outside work and a
4. a wife who would care enough about life to try to influence your moral direction...
How embarrassing is that!
Despite advocating that its OK to use a woman anywhere anytime to scratch your ego itches you also seem to believe only women have morals..
I realise to be one of your gang the picture would have to be a tad different!
It also seems you feel from razor sharp skills at forensic analysis that you feel we would have little in common! Im gutted.
Now if I was to guess the same about your lives from your posts... what would it be?
Capt Krunch sorry for the use of irony I see that one flew right over your head!
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If you don't have respect for yourself or your uniform then how do you think you can expect to be treated with respect
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Im sorry Flap, I am not as familiar with the whores in Wanchai as you seem to be and not all Pilots are either.
The Aviation industry has changed over so many years, the job has become more difficult, less well paid and less respected. I am not judging anyone but merely pointing out that there is still merit in behaving with some integrity regardless as to what management, your lad-friends or anyone else is doing.
I also would still guess that the colleague who has now paid with his career for a silly judgment lapse is not at home delighting over the images and memories of momentary buzz he clicked in his cockpit.
The Aviation industry has changed over so many years, the job has become more difficult, less well paid and less respected. I am not judging anyone but merely pointing out that there is still merit in behaving with some integrity regardless as to what management, your lad-friends or anyone else is doing.
I also would still guess that the colleague who has now paid with his career for a silly judgment lapse is not at home delighting over the images and memories of momentary buzz he clicked in his cockpit.