Direct Entry Hiring
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: QLD
Posts: 59
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
You seriously are willing to justify CX cutting the package for pilots coming to HKG by more than 50% with this drivel???
$3000 ??? Who gives a #$% about $ 3000 when your overall renumeration will be $ 50 000 a month less than mine was at the same rank????
If you want to take the job - then take it. But please stop trying to justify it
$3000 ??? Who gives a #$% about $ 3000 when your overall renumeration will be $ 50 000 a month less than mine was at the same rank????
If you want to take the job - then take it. But please stop trying to justify it
aviationboy thanks for the heads up. food for thought.
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Hong Kong
Posts: 744
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Allowances as income??
As alluded to above, your consideration of allowances as part of your income planning is nothing short of complete folly. This is the mentality that has permeated throughout the cabin crew world, and it's no secret what sort of rubbish money they are on.
Outport allowances are not contractual, they are the same for us & the girls, and are re-assessed regularly by "the company" based on prices at the crew hotel coffee shop / restaurant. So, if the price of noodles goes down, so does the allowance. If the price of steak goes up, the allowance doesn't necessarily go up. Like anything else by or from "the company", it is totally arbitrary. The allowance only goes upwards if the cabin crew start to make noises about the expensive prices of asian food - the company doesn't give a hoot about our opinions in that regard. For example, the company now give cabin crew on the DXB/JED shuttle an extra night of allowances (we don't get it), because the sickness rate for the girls was out of control.
Additionally, your estimate of the amount of cash being based on 3 - 4 trips might sound right for an SO at the moment, but it is not guaranteed. Next time there's a reduction in flying, you will do less overnights. I'm not just talking about GFC, SARS etc, but there are fleet changes happening soon at CX - If you are on a new fleet such as the 747-8 or the 350, for the first half year or so of the introduction, you will not be on a full roster (ie less overnights) as the fleet is bedded in. Conversely, as a fleet disappears, someone has to stay until the end, which means less overnights.
FOs & Captains who fly regional type fleets get more overnights, but less cash per trip. Plus, the cash you get in local currencies is not worth much in a conversion to HK$ (JNB, TPE, BKK are just a few fine examples). When you are on leave, those allowances aren't there, but maybe that might be an advantage of having only 3 weeks of leave per year when the rest of us get 6.
Besides, this discussion is of nil consequence, the purpose of the outport allowance is for your/our/my expenditure for food etc whilst we are at the out port AT THE COMPANY'S BEHEST. If you don't spend it all sometimes, then so be it, but there are a few cities where the allowance can disappear within hours of arrival (NY is an expensive example).
If you want to be like the girls, who go all around the world, never go out, and only eat cup noodles in their room because they are trying to save their allowances, then go for it.
Outport allowances are not contractual, they are the same for us & the girls, and are re-assessed regularly by "the company" based on prices at the crew hotel coffee shop / restaurant. So, if the price of noodles goes down, so does the allowance. If the price of steak goes up, the allowance doesn't necessarily go up. Like anything else by or from "the company", it is totally arbitrary. The allowance only goes upwards if the cabin crew start to make noises about the expensive prices of asian food - the company doesn't give a hoot about our opinions in that regard. For example, the company now give cabin crew on the DXB/JED shuttle an extra night of allowances (we don't get it), because the sickness rate for the girls was out of control.
Additionally, your estimate of the amount of cash being based on 3 - 4 trips might sound right for an SO at the moment, but it is not guaranteed. Next time there's a reduction in flying, you will do less overnights. I'm not just talking about GFC, SARS etc, but there are fleet changes happening soon at CX - If you are on a new fleet such as the 747-8 or the 350, for the first half year or so of the introduction, you will not be on a full roster (ie less overnights) as the fleet is bedded in. Conversely, as a fleet disappears, someone has to stay until the end, which means less overnights.
FOs & Captains who fly regional type fleets get more overnights, but less cash per trip. Plus, the cash you get in local currencies is not worth much in a conversion to HK$ (JNB, TPE, BKK are just a few fine examples). When you are on leave, those allowances aren't there, but maybe that might be an advantage of having only 3 weeks of leave per year when the rest of us get 6.
Besides, this discussion is of nil consequence, the purpose of the outport allowance is for your/our/my expenditure for food etc whilst we are at the out port AT THE COMPANY'S BEHEST. If you don't spend it all sometimes, then so be it, but there are a few cities where the allowance can disappear within hours of arrival (NY is an expensive example).
If you want to be like the girls, who go all around the world, never go out, and only eat cup noodles in their room because they are trying to save their allowances, then go for it.
(and having to share a room in Chungking Mansions).
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: www.
Posts: 42
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Built4flying83
To be honest I get the feeling that if offered a job by CX you are going to take it regardless of what anybody on this forum says. I get the impression that all your posts are fishing for confirmation that you are doing the right thing no matter what others who work for CX tell you. The money from the forgivable loan seems to be a draw for you, which is no doubt what CX want. However, bear in mind its not enough to get close to a deposit on a property not that you would have enough for a mortgage anyway! Additionally yes it is the equivalent of about 18 months housing, but what are you planning to live on for the remaining 4.5 years before you could leave? Notice I assume your time in the company would be no more than the length of the loan!!!! Thats because the vast majority of icadests I have spoken to plan on leaving ASAP. Yes the tax is low, but that is because you have to pay for EVERYTHING up front. You may not have kids yet, but just take a look at the cost of education to understand my point!
IMHO
Under 25, single, no kids and no aviation experience, then the CX deal is OK for a few years provided that after 6 years you understand that you will have little if any savings and only limited flying hours that you could take to another airline due to CX SO’s logging P2X. Additionally although living in an exciting city you will not be able to enjoy what it has to offer as you will not have the funds to do so. Just take a look at how much a gym or reasonable club membership costs annually. That said severe pollution is free for all.
If on the other hand you are not single, do have kids or are older than 25 then unless you or your spouse is rich the lifestyle provided by the icad scheme is going to be austere at best!
Thats my opinion take it or leave it.
To be honest I get the feeling that if offered a job by CX you are going to take it regardless of what anybody on this forum says. I get the impression that all your posts are fishing for confirmation that you are doing the right thing no matter what others who work for CX tell you. The money from the forgivable loan seems to be a draw for you, which is no doubt what CX want. However, bear in mind its not enough to get close to a deposit on a property not that you would have enough for a mortgage anyway! Additionally yes it is the equivalent of about 18 months housing, but what are you planning to live on for the remaining 4.5 years before you could leave? Notice I assume your time in the company would be no more than the length of the loan!!!! Thats because the vast majority of icadests I have spoken to plan on leaving ASAP. Yes the tax is low, but that is because you have to pay for EVERYTHING up front. You may not have kids yet, but just take a look at the cost of education to understand my point!
IMHO
Under 25, single, no kids and no aviation experience, then the CX deal is OK for a few years provided that after 6 years you understand that you will have little if any savings and only limited flying hours that you could take to another airline due to CX SO’s logging P2X. Additionally although living in an exciting city you will not be able to enjoy what it has to offer as you will not have the funds to do so. Just take a look at how much a gym or reasonable club membership costs annually. That said severe pollution is free for all.
If on the other hand you are not single, do have kids or are older than 25 then unless you or your spouse is rich the lifestyle provided by the icad scheme is going to be austere at best!
Thats my opinion take it or leave it.
Join Date: May 2009
Location: HKG
Age: 47
Posts: 1,007
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I do not think this deal is good, I think it is far below what you should get for moving to another very different country. I do however think that people should know the facts and to say that you would get no where near a deposit is just not true. Yeah if you have kids and need a big place then not a chance but for a single guy a two bedroom ok size place in Tung Chung is about the 3-4 million price range. You can get a 90% mortgage on 3 million and stamp duty is not outrageous for that amount so for about 350-400,000 you could get somewhere. Repayments could be about 15K a month. Use the rest for tax and repayments. After 6 years will be below the 70% outstanding so could switch mortgage and rent the place out when you move back home to fly for someone else.
You will however never be able to afford a descent sized place or support a family whilst living to a standard similar to home. It is a small place for your whole time in CX.
You will however never be able to afford a descent sized place or support a family whilst living to a standard similar to home. It is a small place for your whole time in CX.
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: QLD
Posts: 59
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
IFB
thanks for the info IFB. You probably were right with me initially just fishing around for confirmation. I definately know it came across that way. But now multiple experienced people have shed the same light on certain issues i would have to be silly to ignore it.
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: www.
Posts: 42
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Built4flying83
Good to know you are listening. Whatever decision you make and wherever you end up I hope it works out, be that HK or not.
SloppyJoe
Yes I agree about a small place foe one guy, but I am trying to look to the future. The guys that join will have to be with the company for 6 yrs and lots will change in their lives during that time. Many will want to get married and start a family. Like you agree this package then becomes almost impossible. If they do use the loan as a deposit, then add in mort, tax, food, bills etc there is little if any left over for savings, pension of just plain fun!
Good to know you are listening. Whatever decision you make and wherever you end up I hope it works out, be that HK or not.
SloppyJoe
Yes I agree about a small place foe one guy, but I am trying to look to the future. The guys that join will have to be with the company for 6 yrs and lots will change in their lives during that time. Many will want to get married and start a family. Like you agree this package then becomes almost impossible. If they do use the loan as a deposit, then add in mort, tax, food, bills etc there is little if any left over for savings, pension of just plain fun!
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: QLD
Posts: 59
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
OneBarWonder
think about how you'll feel sitting next to a guy who's teling you how he just bought that new ivory towel rack for his 2000sqft place in the Midlevels while you're struggling to find a decent place even though you do the same job?
on 93,000 HK /month (this includes the HKPA). Surely that is enough to live abit more to your standards?
Join Date: May 2009
Location: HKG
Age: 47
Posts: 1,007
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
As an SO I am on a fair bit more than that and would not be in HKG if it were any less, it is just not worth living here if you are not saving/paying of a mortgage.
errrrr, not really. You can live but why move here if you are not putting cash in the bank!
In fact if you are single you can have a very comfortable life-style on half that.
Might be time for CX to tweak the deal if they want to attract even a basic level of experience. It looks like a lot of low cost FO slots coming up in Singapore. Relatively quick upgrades, then off to the premium carriers still willing to pay for that experience. Bob's your uncle, Swire's your penny pinching aunt ;-)
I was going to say Qantas but not really an option these days! What I am getting at is that for someone with a bit of flying experience under their belt, the advanced cadet program on C scale just isn't worth it.
When considering the overall package of lifestyle/salary/accomodation, It looks to me that cutting your teeth at an LCC, followed by DEFO at Emirates, Korean, ANA (although not sure if the latter are doing much hiring) and the like, would leave you better off than the relatively slow progression and low housing allowance at CX.
When considering the overall package of lifestyle/salary/accomodation, It looks to me that cutting your teeth at an LCC, followed by DEFO at Emirates, Korean, ANA (although not sure if the latter are doing much hiring) and the like, would leave you better off than the relatively slow progression and low housing allowance at CX.
