pilot shortage
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stuck
Lets take for example the US, with a large number of carriers covering international routes with types that are also in use with carriers in low living wage countries, an airline as an employer has the capability of employing someone suitably rated and with time on type that enables the capacity for a lower cost pilot that has the requisite experience. the long short can invariably lead to a stagnation level for career development for US citizen pilots, who will be left picking up the jobs on regional and internal lo-co carriers, while the long term career prospect, the long haul and heavy aircraft flying on routes that can be crewed by destination locals.
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you must have US citizenship or a green card to work for a US company, so hiring destination locals doesn't work.
no they dont, i have friends who do both for US companies and I can ssure you they do not nor are they entitled to one.
NB: i have also worked for a US company.
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For a US airline company you do. Thought we were discussing pilot jobs not gas station employees or bank workers who work for the UK branch of Merrill Lynch or whomever. Obviously, baggage handlers, ticket sales, check-in workers are locally employed via a local contract handled through nation-to-nation labor rules.
Unless the airline forms an international branch which, to my knowledge, none have. Happy to hear of any examples of hiring local (non-US or non Green Card holder) pilots and basing them at the destination. Possibly Fedex with the Hkg base but all the guys I know who fly for Fedex out of Hkg are yanks.
Plus, doubt if the US pilot unions would allow it regardless.
Unless the airline forms an international branch which, to my knowledge, none have. Happy to hear of any examples of hiring local (non-US or non Green Card holder) pilots and basing them at the destination. Possibly Fedex with the Hkg base but all the guys I know who fly for Fedex out of Hkg are yanks.
Plus, doubt if the US pilot unions would allow it regardless.
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doubt if the US pilot unions would allow it regardless.
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ah now there is a difference ! the dominant European pilot representative bodies are about as useful as a wet fart on a dry day!
Off topic, any recommendations for a HKG AME?
2369 3329 or [email protected]
Cheers
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European age limit now going to "subject to medical"!
It's always been "subject to medical" my friend. Even if you're much younger than 60-65.
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sodapop. To make it clear, there is not going to be an upper age limit (i'm sure you had actually figured that out). The only determining factor for retirement will be medical. Will happen here in HK as well in time.
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The Wraith
I've said it before and i'll paste it again....
http://pics.livejournal.com/twoflower/pic/00023gph
Just having a go at the spelling mate. Sorry your relatives were harmed in some way. I'm sure the southern Vietnamese thank you for you concern.
And, once again, please keep the political sh>>t off this forum, dude.
And, another and, nice try impressing people with your latin comprehension (et al). And, yes another and, do you completely and sincerely understand what happened in SE Asia? Please feel free to PM me if you'd care to debate the subject. Otherwise, continue to refer to the above pasted link.
Or, perhaps start a thread entitled "Dr Strangelove or How I learned to love the bomb" or some such drivel.
I.E. Have a nice day.
... it's hammer time....
http://pics.livejournal.com/twoflower/pic/00023gph
Just having a go at the spelling mate. Sorry your relatives were harmed in some way. I'm sure the southern Vietnamese thank you for you concern.
And, once again, please keep the political sh>>t off this forum, dude.
And, another and, nice try impressing people with your latin comprehension (et al). And, yes another and, do you completely and sincerely understand what happened in SE Asia? Please feel free to PM me if you'd care to debate the subject. Otherwise, continue to refer to the above pasted link.
Or, perhaps start a thread entitled "Dr Strangelove or How I learned to love the bomb" or some such drivel.
I.E. Have a nice day.
... it's hammer time....
Last edited by sodapop; 27th Jun 2011 at 22:09.
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Fellows,
The only decent starting wage for high time, willing to risk it all widebody left seater is in China, as what most of us should know by now. And the only reason why that is so, is simply because the respective airline management has set aside budget for hiring expatriates in fixed RMB terms. The payscale seems to be rising, as what some agencies would have claimed, is due to the fact that RMB is appreciating accordingly. Absolute RMB budget allocated has not risen, but is most likely to be among the first few to do so. The rest of the world in FAR EAST, are just having a wait and see attitude. NO ONE, wants to be the "bad boy" elevating the benchmark in order to protect their ever insatiable appetite for higher operating profit margin.
I have worked for too many majors and I dare put my arguments along the side that the pay raise, due acute pilot shortages, will NEVER come about. The long overdue pay increase if come about to most big boys' clubs, will merely offset the rise in living cost, adjusted for inflation. Just look at what has happened to QR with their recent pay increase, and what should be happening to EK, KE, and hopefully CX, SQ etc.
I for once, would love to be proven wrong. Nonetheless, looking at the number of cheap cadets in the baking from South East Asia, low wage pilots from Europe and both North South America, I seriously won't hold my breath on any miracle.
The only decent starting wage for high time, willing to risk it all widebody left seater is in China, as what most of us should know by now. And the only reason why that is so, is simply because the respective airline management has set aside budget for hiring expatriates in fixed RMB terms. The payscale seems to be rising, as what some agencies would have claimed, is due to the fact that RMB is appreciating accordingly. Absolute RMB budget allocated has not risen, but is most likely to be among the first few to do so. The rest of the world in FAR EAST, are just having a wait and see attitude. NO ONE, wants to be the "bad boy" elevating the benchmark in order to protect their ever insatiable appetite for higher operating profit margin.
I have worked for too many majors and I dare put my arguments along the side that the pay raise, due acute pilot shortages, will NEVER come about. The long overdue pay increase if come about to most big boys' clubs, will merely offset the rise in living cost, adjusted for inflation. Just look at what has happened to QR with their recent pay increase, and what should be happening to EK, KE, and hopefully CX, SQ etc.
I for once, would love to be proven wrong. Nonetheless, looking at the number of cheap cadets in the baking from South East Asia, low wage pilots from Europe and both North South America, I seriously won't hold my breath on any miracle.
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Nearly the entire decade of the 1990's saw soaring pilot hiring in the States.
The only shortage is of guys willing to work at abysmally low wages at the entry levels of this biz. Unfortunately entry level now extends out about 10 yrs.
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After the first Gulf War, most military pilots who got out were able to secure a major airline job. Sorry if you didn't have the experience to get hired. This was from 91-93. Even Northwest hired a bunch.
From 96-2000 all major airlines were hiring. Hence, about 50+ guys I know were hired by Southwest alone.
Again, my condolences mate.
PS: isn't 98 part of the 90s?
From 96-2000 all major airlines were hiring. Hence, about 50+ guys I know were hired by Southwest alone.
Again, my condolences mate.
PS: isn't 98 part of the 90s?
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Touched a nerve Sodapop?
Silly me to question the outright authority of the American mentality and their Foreign Policy!
PS. Only an American would post a picture with a saying as stupid as "How about a nice big cup of shut the f**k up"!!
Silly me to question the outright authority of the American mentality and their Foreign Policy!
PS. Only an American would post a picture with a saying as stupid as "How about a nice big cup of shut the f**k up"!!
Last edited by The Wraith; 28th Jun 2011 at 17:05.
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Sodapop:
It's forbidden on PPRune to say "I am wrong", or "true, you have a point", or "maybe I exagerated a bit", I give you that. This is the PPrune community, nobody is wrong ever.
Okay, so concerning your "60s-70s" era, it seems you only take into account the mid 70 part now... Your "era" seems a bit reduced. So I agree, if you speak about a very young vet retiring from Vietnam in 1975 (remember the vietnam war that's mainly 59/73) in his early 20s, yes this guy will be ready to retire pretty soon, sure. So that's the plan to see the looming pilot shortage coming??? What you don't seem to realize, or don't want to see for whatever reason is that most of the airline pilots hired in the 60s-70s are already retired (in 2000/2010), yet you are telling us they will retire in 4-6 years, creating a big pilot shortage in the future. Come back to earth. Let's read again what you wrote initially:The 1960's into the mid-70s saw high hiring with the advent of intercontinental flights (B747 etc) and the hiring of many ex-Vietnam era pilots (the very ones who are starting to retire which should create a strong need for pilots for the next 4-6 years).
You said:
Ok you want to make fun about the million of vietnamese civilians mudered, killed, raped, women/kid included. I am telling you something: it's everything but not funny, you do have a weird humour.
Question for you sodapop: for example, who did that, when, what happened in this picture below? (clue: it happened in Vietnam)
You found it? Ok here is the answer: picture from a mass murder of 347–504 unarmed citizens in South Vietnam on March 16, 1968, conducted by a unit of the United States Army. All of the victims were civilians and most were women, children (including babies), and elderly people. Many of the victims were raped, beaten, tortured, and some of the bodies were found mutilated.
Others picture available if you like. Remember, most of the times there were no piture to witness the rapes...
Well, if you reread what I posted, Vietnam "era" pilots who left the military in the mid 70's are now approaching age 65. Even if a guy got out in 1970 he's only now approaching or has just reached age 65. It's not that difficult to do the math(s).
As to your remarks concerning the Vietnam was (conflict to be politically precise), I would say they have nothing to do with this post or forum. I will note that most involvement can be pinned on JFK and LBJ, both democrats whom are now remembered by their initials. How odd.
As to your remarks concerning the Vietnam was (conflict to be politically precise), I would say they have nothing to do with this post or forum. I will note that most involvement can be pinned on JFK and LBJ, both democrats whom are now remembered by their initials. How odd.
Okay, so concerning your "60s-70s" era, it seems you only take into account the mid 70 part now... Your "era" seems a bit reduced. So I agree, if you speak about a very young vet retiring from Vietnam in 1975 (remember the vietnam war that's mainly 59/73) in his early 20s, yes this guy will be ready to retire pretty soon, sure. So that's the plan to see the looming pilot shortage coming??? What you don't seem to realize, or don't want to see for whatever reason is that most of the airline pilots hired in the 60s-70s are already retired (in 2000/2010), yet you are telling us they will retire in 4-6 years, creating a big pilot shortage in the future. Come back to earth. Let's read again what you wrote initially:The 1960's into the mid-70s saw high hiring with the advent of intercontinental flights (B747 etc) and the hiring of many ex-Vietnam era pilots (the very ones who are starting to retire which should create a strong need for pilots for the next 4-6 years).
You said:
Women/kids "rapped". That happened in the late 80s/90s with LL Cool J and MC Hammer.
It is 2011, hence the retirements.
It is 2011, hence the retirements.
Question for you sodapop: for example, who did that, when, what happened in this picture below? (clue: it happened in Vietnam)
You found it? Ok here is the answer: picture from a mass murder of 347–504 unarmed citizens in South Vietnam on March 16, 1968, conducted by a unit of the United States Army. All of the victims were civilians and most were women, children (including babies), and elderly people. Many of the victims were raped, beaten, tortured, and some of the bodies were found mutilated.
Others picture available if you like. Remember, most of the times there were no piture to witness the rapes...
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Kag and Wraith,
Please feel free to go to a non-pilot forum to express your views concerning Vietnam. In fact, it would be kind of the moderator of this forum to eliminate any posts regarding political views such as your on a thread which discusses pilot shortage. I'm sure Jane Fonda is available to listen to your views, however. My posting of the link to the coffee shut up was due to the fact that anything regarding these views has no place on this thread or forum, IMHO.
When I made reference to the Vietnam era pilots it was regarding the initial article attached to this thread about the upcoming retirement of many pilots in US major airlines. Perhaps I should have specified which year group is retiring soon but I thought the math would be easy enough to calculate. "Vietnam-era pilots" (NOT "Vietnam vet")also refers to guys that got out in the late 70s but were in the military (or civilian pilots even) during the conflict time frame. That said, pilots from the 60s also were able to secure airline jobs at a decent rate for the reasons previously stated. If you read the post by Poydras regarding UA pilots retiring at the rate he specified you should see that it is happening and going to continue to happen. If you choose not to believe it then so be it.
PS: I personally know the US Army captain who was in charge of Lt Calley at My Lai. It's interesting to hear how things went wrong. Notice I said wrong. No where in any of my posts have I said anything about the conflict being good or correct. I have not stated any political view concerning it. Perhaps, I should not have made a joke of the word ''rapped" and I hereby apologize for making you think a reference to MC Hammer had anything to do with Vietnam (because it doesn't). I also stand by the fact that I never brought up anything about the conflict other than using the term "VIetnam-Era Pilots). Have either of you ever been in battle? Please let us all know where you're from so we can discuss your country's foreign policy. But, alas, the Wraith is nomadic and KAG is an "expat" who has abandoned his country. Let's get on with the real gist of this thread please.
Please feel free to go to a non-pilot forum to express your views concerning Vietnam. In fact, it would be kind of the moderator of this forum to eliminate any posts regarding political views such as your on a thread which discusses pilot shortage. I'm sure Jane Fonda is available to listen to your views, however. My posting of the link to the coffee shut up was due to the fact that anything regarding these views has no place on this thread or forum, IMHO.
When I made reference to the Vietnam era pilots it was regarding the initial article attached to this thread about the upcoming retirement of many pilots in US major airlines. Perhaps I should have specified which year group is retiring soon but I thought the math would be easy enough to calculate. "Vietnam-era pilots" (NOT "Vietnam vet")also refers to guys that got out in the late 70s but were in the military (or civilian pilots even) during the conflict time frame. That said, pilots from the 60s also were able to secure airline jobs at a decent rate for the reasons previously stated. If you read the post by Poydras regarding UA pilots retiring at the rate he specified you should see that it is happening and going to continue to happen. If you choose not to believe it then so be it.
PS: I personally know the US Army captain who was in charge of Lt Calley at My Lai. It's interesting to hear how things went wrong. Notice I said wrong. No where in any of my posts have I said anything about the conflict being good or correct. I have not stated any political view concerning it. Perhaps, I should not have made a joke of the word ''rapped" and I hereby apologize for making you think a reference to MC Hammer had anything to do with Vietnam (because it doesn't). I also stand by the fact that I never brought up anything about the conflict other than using the term "VIetnam-Era Pilots). Have either of you ever been in battle? Please let us all know where you're from so we can discuss your country's foreign policy. But, alas, the Wraith is nomadic and KAG is an "expat" who has abandoned his country. Let's get on with the real gist of this thread please.
Last edited by sodapop; 28th Jun 2011 at 17:49.
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Sodapop: I have read your last post and I understand you were not making fun of the Vietnam rapes (rappes...). Alright let's admit that.
Concerning the huge pilot shortage coming in the next 4-6 years due to the huge pilot retirement from the "Vietnam era" (1959/1973 mainly should I remind you?), just give up for your own sake, it's just ridiculous.
Concerning the huge pilot shortage coming in the next 4-6 years due to the huge pilot retirement from the "Vietnam era" (1959/1973 mainly should I remind you?), just give up for your own sake, it's just ridiculous.
Last edited by KAG; 28th Jun 2011 at 17:40.
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My final post, as this is getting out of hand and has nothing to do with the pilot shortage.
Well, if you were a pilot, I doubt you'd have the chance.
Shall we remove every post that is an opinion and may or may not be correct? I'd surmise that 90% of PPRUNE would disappear.
From my previous post:
Perhaps, I should not have made a joke of the word ''rapped" and I hereby apologize for making you think a reference to MC Hammer had anything to do with Vietnam (because it doesn't). I also stand by the fact that I never brought up anything about the conflict other than using the term "Vietnam-Era Pilots).
Please note from previous post that I described "Vietnam-era pilots" as including pilots who were in the military (or civilian) during the conflict time frame but got out/hired afterwards in the late 70s. Had to edit to include this as it is my final post.
Over and out boys. Will check back in 4-6 years to see if there really were retirements.
I have been in a battle, yet never raped anybody.
And concerning the up coming pilot shortage due to huge retirement from the vietnam era in the next 4-6 years (your words), let's call the moderator for help, this is your last possibility to be right: to keep your post and delete all the other ones that shows something wrong in what you say.
You are the on bringing Vietnam here, you are the one trying to make joke with rappe/rape. It was just to remind you this is NOT funny. Now you are the one saying it is out of topic, only because you feel it cannot support your viewpoint anymore. Try to stand corrected, it happened a few times to me, it happens to anyone.
From my previous post:
Perhaps, I should not have made a joke of the word ''rapped" and I hereby apologize for making you think a reference to MC Hammer had anything to do with Vietnam (because it doesn't). I also stand by the fact that I never brought up anything about the conflict other than using the term "Vietnam-Era Pilots).
Concerning the huge pilot shortage coming in the next 4-6 years due to the huge pilot retirement from the "Vietnam era" (1959/1973 mainly should I remind you?), just give up for your own sake, it's just ridiculous.
Over and out boys. Will check back in 4-6 years to see if there really were retirements.
Last edited by sodapop; 28th Jun 2011 at 17:53.