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Gee Day Workers....

Fragrant Harbour A forum for the large number of pilots (expats and locals) based with the various airlines in Hong Kong. Air Traffic Controllers are also warmly welcomed into the forum.

Gee Day Workers....

Old 14th Aug 2010, 10:11
  #1 (permalink)  
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Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: NZ
Posts: 13
Gee Day Workers....

How many flights this weekend went with G day workers?

I know a Manila on Saturday/Sunday that is of them.

Giving away part of your weekend to help, for less than a day's work.

I know we are not in 'CC' but we should act like we are.

The GC will save 'CC' for a later date I'm sure.

When will we learn..
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Old 14th Aug 2010, 10:59
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Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Hong Kong
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Whilst I know of 4 guys on reserve listening to the sound of silence as their phone's are not ringing.
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Old 14th Aug 2010, 11:09
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Join Date: Jul 2000
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Yep I'm one also, I don't expect to get called could result in OT for the month but not any more thanks to G day workers
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Old 14th Aug 2010, 11:49
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Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Australia
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I flew with one Gentleman that mentioned he worked on a G day. He claimed that he didn't know CX paid money or gave him the G day back later!!

After I stopped crying I tried to explain to him (DEFO) why I wouldn't wish to work on a G day myself.......

However, whilst the AOA GC don't recommend CC we cannot complain if guys/girls work if they want to.

We all ( AOA ) need to consider bringing in CC soon. Unless the Company begin to bargain in good faith!! which is doubtful.
CC may not work but it will sure hurt them.
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Old 14th Aug 2010, 13:02
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Join Date: Jan 2007
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Don't hold your breath waiting for the AOA to recommend or enforce or fight for anything. All they ever seem to do is tell us how wrong everything is etc, and then...........nothing. Getting weary of it.
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Old 14th Aug 2010, 13:04
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Join Date: Jan 2007
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.....oh, and no, I never work G days and I don't need the AOA or anyone else to tell me that, it is just common sense.
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Old 14th Aug 2010, 13:28
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Join Date: Jul 2000
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Did you run for the GC?
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Old 15th Aug 2010, 07:12
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Join Date: Jan 2007
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Posts: 240
No. Should I?
Do you volunteer to work in Crew Control when you get a bad roster? Do you go work for STAR WORLD when you want to watch TV or do you just pay for the service?
I am a member and pay my subs and expect them to do what they say they will do which is fight for our rights as a CX workforce. If they need higher subs I will happily pay up.
I am not trying to be harsh here. But if people volunteer to do something and the organisation is funded by it's members then I don't expect to be constantly sold down the river and presented with reduced terms and conditions everytime they go into bat for us. And that is exactly what always seems to happen. They asked us to accept SLS with the promise of extended housing to 25 years....period. NOW here we are and they are talking about negotiating the TERMS of such an extension. I don't WANT them to be negotiating terms....there ARE no terms. It is 25 years of the current terms. Why won't the AOA for once grow some balls and stand their ground instead of always caving in to the company?

Last edited by The Wraith; 15th Aug 2010 at 07:23.
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Old 15th Aug 2010, 10:47
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Join Date: Feb 1999
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CORRECT Waith….there are no TERMS to negotiate, just deliver, as we delivered on SLS, as THOSE were the terms. Period.

Like the pay negotiations, there IS NOTHING to give away. Just secure the pay rise and make it retrospective from August, as when it should have been paid! If they want to procrastinate, it has be at their expense, not ours!
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Old 15th Aug 2010, 12:30
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Join Date: Jan 2007
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It is so frustrating that EVERY time the AOA go in to negotiate they come back with an inferior offer and one way or the other it gets through.
You will see, if we do get a payrise it will be in conjunction with higher duty times, lesser housing etc etc....and this is no payrise at all. A payrise now should be unconditional. Thereafter if the company want higher productivity, housing changes etc, THEN that should be negotiated SEPERATELY.
Why can't the AOA get this into their heads?????

....and if the company won't negotiate then let the AOA require contract compliance, etc, of us. Actually do something instead of sending weekly missives pointing out how we are being screwed by the company. We KNOW we are, we don't need the AOA to point it out to us, we need the AOA to ACTUALLY DO SOMETHING about it.
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Old 15th Aug 2010, 13:17
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Join Date: Aug 2007
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The AOA do not have our best interests at heart, simple. They spend all there time pandering to TPTB. It reminds me of the school yard bully and his cowardly associate.
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Old 15th Aug 2010, 19:23
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Sadly, EXEZY, I think you are right.
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Old 16th Aug 2010, 07:16
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&&&
 
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Stupid attitude fellas. It's a bit like the UN, the AOA is made up of its members, it sinks or swims based on the efforts and sincerity of its members. Why not join and get involved?
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Old 16th Aug 2010, 12:33
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So, with that logic &&&, everyone should join the GC, or at least all those who feel the AOA is letting us down, which is most people. It would be getting a little overmanned don't you think?
I'm sorry, but I still maintain that we, as members, pay subs and the people who choose to work in the AOA should do that which they sign up to do. They volunteer to do it, they are not forced into it. I am neither a businessman nor a negotiator and so would be fairly ineffective in that position. The people who DO sign up should be skilled in these areas and act accordingly.
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Old 16th Aug 2010, 16:13
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Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: All over the show like a madwomans crap
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Wraith

You can't have it both ways mate, the GC are voted in by us, from members who decide to volunteer their time and efforts. I think they should be commended as a whole. I do believe a professional negotiator, who's salary and livehood are not affected by company actions and pressure, should be added to our negotiation team. I think you need to cut the people who give FREELY of their time on our behalf a bit of slack. I have not been a GC member, but a long time AOA member, and it seems we constantly blame the AOA not realising the AOA is ALL OF US.
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Old 16th Aug 2010, 17:17
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NoseGear,
I see your point and I do think the best way is that the AOA/us employ a professional negotiator who is not threatened in the face of the likes of Tyler and co. I know the AOA say there is no point as the company will refuse to negotiate with this person....of course they will refuse because they know that now instead of going up against a pilot they will now be going up against someone as hardnosed and as good at bargaining as they are. But eventually the company will have no choice but to accept this person as part of the AOA team because the AOA member pilots will do whatever the Professional advises us to do, eg contract compliance etc, and the company will have to come back to the table. I also think that should the AOA finally employ some REAL teeth in this way, the membership would soar. And I for one would happily see my subs increase to pay for it.
Imagine Tyler sitting opposite the likes of Sir Alan Sugar or people of his ilk....we would be seeing a lot less of "smug Tyler" and a lot more of "worried Tyler".
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Old 17th Aug 2010, 09:14
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IFB
 
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Wraith

We all have a rant on occasions. Sometimes it may be about our government or the way an organisation is handling whatever crisis it’s encountering at that time. By ranting we imply that we could do better were we in the same situation. Granted as a CX pilot it is unlikely that you will find yourself in a position to shape world events by leading your country’s government or become leader of the UN, IMF, Star World, Crew Control or whatever organisation you feel could be doing better. However, if you had the chance to step into the incumbent’s shoes you were criticising, would you? I bet you have said on many occasions:

“If I was the Chancellor/Prime Minster/CEO/Boss of CC ………..”ETC ETC ETC!

The same cannot be said of the AOA. SHOULD YOU CHOOSE TO YOU COULD CHANGE THE WAY ITS RUN. You talk all the time about how its not working for you and have plenty of suggestions about how the GC could do a better job if only they grew some balls. Unfortunately for us that seems to be where your courage of leadership runs out as by your own admission you refuse to stand for election.

I have to wonder if that is because you can talk a good game when nobody knows your identity? You boast about how militant with the company you are but who’s to say that’s the truth, this is after all an anonymous forum! I wonder if you would you be so bold were you the AOA Pres?

The simple fact is you and a number of other posters on this forum seem to have the same idea with regard to the GC and how the AOA needs new direction. Therefore for all us weaker spineless individuals please grant us the gift of your superior leadership and show us the way to achieve the goals of radically improving pay/COS/housing etc. To do that I fear you would need to stand up and be counted by relinquishing your anonymity and stepping forth into the limelight. Much like the present GC I guess. If only they had your courage.
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Old 17th Aug 2010, 10:47
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Join Date: Jan 2007
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Trust me, IFB, those who know me will tell you that I am definitely not one for hiding behind the parapet, and am certainly happy to say what I think whether it be to a manager or otherwise.
I'm afraid that whilst I wish to keep this job, I am not afraid of losing it either. I enjoy change and frankly I am as happy, if not happier actually, flying a King Air as I am a widebody. And, as I recently discovered, I could make as much (within 1000USD) per month flying a 30 seat turboprop as I do here! Yep, I was surprised too! Cathay certainly still is a pretty great job, but long gone are the days where it is the BEST job.
Anyway, that aside, my point is that those who are elected are so because they are supposedly good at this, and we as members support them through paying subs and any voting asked of us. Also, I believe that as a member I am entitled to voice an opinion as to how I feel the AOA perform, whether I am right or not. I just happen to feel that everytime the AOA negotiate with the company we end up with a crappy deal. Ask around, I think you will find it is a prevalent opinion, and I don't think anyone could say with a straight face that the AOA doesn't back certain areas of the pilot body more than others, COS 08 anyone?
Anyway, it is simply my opinion. We will wait and see how the pay talks go. My money is on a "payrise" tied to productivity increases and/or alterations to the housing scheme, both of which should need no negotiation at all except for the percentage amount of said rise. I will buy you a beer if I'm wrong.
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Old 17th Aug 2010, 11:41
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IFB
 
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Wraith

Sadly I agree with a lot that you say, however the fact that you could earn as much flying for another company or that you enjoy other forms of aviation is not really the issue I raised with you.

You are right to say that as a member you can voice your opinion and that it is just that. The point is that you constantly very rudely say how the GC is wrong and thus I have to presume you know a better way of dealing with the company. In fact you are always offering radical solutions for all our wows which at present the AOA will not employ. If as you say the present GC is not good enough to do this job, but you are, then why do you refuse to stand for election and improve the lot for everybody rather than barack from the sidelines?

You have lots to say about how bad things are and how our fortunes could be reversed if only people would follow you. Well if you really want people to follow then put yourself up for election and present a manifesto to the membership. It is clear that you feel you could do better so prove to us all how good you really are.

By the way who says that those elected are good at what we the membership expect them to do. The simple truth is that these individuals give freely much of their time and effort and I have much admiration for them undertaking such a thankless task. However, good intentions does not mean that they will be class negotiators etc.

In summary I object to your anonymous criticism of volunteers that give freely their precious time. People like you make a thankless task even less appealing. Why would anybody want to represent somebody who is happy to throw personal offensive insults from a position of anonymity. To me that is nothing short of cowardice.

My suggestion to you is:

1. Use the AOA forums where you can get GC answers to you many questions and if necessary provide counter arguments when you think the GC is wrong.

2. Quit the offensive drivel. You are hurting the membership by ensuring possible good quality candidates pass up the idea of election. Additionally your caustic comments in a public forum ensuring the those who are not AOA members maintain that status and thus weaken our overall appearance in the eyes of the company.

3. Try to use your energy and enthusiasm to help us not hinder
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Old 17th Aug 2010, 12:29
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Join Date: Jan 2007
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Is IFB YOUR real name? And I take it that you have NEVER criticised anything or anyone on these forums from YOUR position of anonimity?
Anyway, nevermind. My opinion is my opinion and as this IS actually an anonomous forum I will reserve my right, as do you, to remain anonomous. And if you think MY posts are caustic then you are obviously not reading many of the other posts on these boards! Or perhaps you are but can't be bothered to admonish everyone!
Anyway, hope you have a great weekend, whether flying or on the ground!
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