The NEW AOA, It is time!!!
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liam
"and if I am?"... nothing. i'm just trying to understand where you're coming from.
and let me ask you (and everyone else) this.
do you think the aoa has a better negotiating position if
a) we have 10% membership
b) we have 55% membership or
c) we have 100% membership
not a tricky question, i think.
when nick and his mates read these forums and see us bickering amongst ourselves, they just laugh and rub their hands together! let's stop providing them comic relief and give them something to worry about instead!
and let me ask you (and everyone else) this.
do you think the aoa has a better negotiating position if
a) we have 10% membership
b) we have 55% membership or
c) we have 100% membership
not a tricky question, i think.
when nick and his mates read these forums and see us bickering amongst ourselves, they just laugh and rub their hands together! let's stop providing them comic relief and give them something to worry about instead!
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Saturn
Dry your eyes Princess....
Back to the debate then; with your very recently new found enthusiasm for the AOA, can you (or anyone else) tell me what the main point(s) of difference are between PW and ST? Surely ST knew he had to increase the membership to make the AOA more effective.
PS Do you know much about 411A? Suggest you PM me the answer....
Back to the debate then; with your very recently new found enthusiasm for the AOA, can you (or anyone else) tell me what the main point(s) of difference are between PW and ST? Surely ST knew he had to increase the membership to make the AOA more effective.
PS Do you know much about 411A? Suggest you PM me the answer....
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Oh brother
Not looking back. Looking forward now. ST is gone. Join us or don't. Be part of the problem or the solution. I for one am going to really try and give it a chance if not I will just move on. That simple. We cannot be divided. We have been for some time and it is time now to regroup. We only have ourselves to blame.
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Great Presentation.
Congratulation Mr. President. It was clear and simple like a CBT lesson unmistakably simple and effective.
I would join at once But i'm not in this industry.
good job !
Congratulation Mr. President. It was clear and simple like a CBT lesson unmistakably simple and effective.
I would join at once But i'm not in this industry.
good job !
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So Tired et al
PW's message is the same as STs, which was same as MG's, which was the same as ND's, which was same as TP's. The greater the membership numbers, the greater the AOA's effectiveness.... Union 101...
Let us not forget that ND had over 90% membership in 2001; we can all debate how effective the AOA was in 2001, but what is not up for debate is that membership has dropped markedly since.... that's a fact... and the membership numbers dropped because of the POLICIES of the successive Presidents.
Impressive as PWs presentation was; its been done before. To get membership up let us hear some POLICIES.. what are we buying into?
Saturn and CPdude have recently found a new Messiah... and now me and the other 45% not in the union are expected to join with them in this leap of faith (I've always found it's best to look before one leaps). How is the new Messiah different than the old one?
Let's look at PW and ST. They are both seemingly likeable, hardworking, highly intelligent men. Both are "B" Scale Capts and both are ex-British Military Fast Jet. PW has served on the GC for a considerable time under ST and I understand PW was on the Negotiating Committee that reported back to ST in Aug 08 with the proposed deal that included extentions on A scales and what was to become COS 08...yes.. the deal you all liked so much...
To get me and, I suspect a lot of others to join, it's going to take some POLICIES to gain my interest. The prospect of taking on Cx Management knowing the likes of Saturn, CPdude and ACMS are watching my 6 doesn't quite motivate me to join.
Let us not forget that ND had over 90% membership in 2001; we can all debate how effective the AOA was in 2001, but what is not up for debate is that membership has dropped markedly since.... that's a fact... and the membership numbers dropped because of the POLICIES of the successive Presidents.
Impressive as PWs presentation was; its been done before. To get membership up let us hear some POLICIES.. what are we buying into?
Saturn and CPdude have recently found a new Messiah... and now me and the other 45% not in the union are expected to join with them in this leap of faith (I've always found it's best to look before one leaps). How is the new Messiah different than the old one?
Let's look at PW and ST. They are both seemingly likeable, hardworking, highly intelligent men. Both are "B" Scale Capts and both are ex-British Military Fast Jet. PW has served on the GC for a considerable time under ST and I understand PW was on the Negotiating Committee that reported back to ST in Aug 08 with the proposed deal that included extentions on A scales and what was to become COS 08...yes.. the deal you all liked so much...
To get me and, I suspect a lot of others to join, it's going to take some POLICIES to gain my interest. The prospect of taking on Cx Management knowing the likes of Saturn, CPdude and ACMS are watching my 6 doesn't quite motivate me to join.
Where would we be without the extreme lunatic fringe?
Sometimes I reflect on over half a century of life. And sometimes I just reflect!
And I find that I have to give some credit to the other-the-top tree-huggers, anti-war mongers and other extreme communist, socialistic bastards, ratbag extremists that infest the "civilization" in which we find ourselves.
I guess that everyone is entitled to their point of view regardless of how ridiculous some of those views may seem to the average Joe on the street.
Sometimes in considering the extremes and boundaries of ideas helps us discover and arrive at a happy medium in which most of us will find agreement and which serves to perpetuate the advancement of society in general.
So I would tend to accept ANY flight-deck crew-member to join the AOA.
And I find that I have to give some credit to the other-the-top tree-huggers, anti-war mongers and other extreme communist, socialistic bastards, ratbag extremists that infest the "civilization" in which we find ourselves.
I guess that everyone is entitled to their point of view regardless of how ridiculous some of those views may seem to the average Joe on the street.
Sometimes in considering the extremes and boundaries of ideas helps us discover and arrive at a happy medium in which most of us will find agreement and which serves to perpetuate the advancement of society in general.
So I would tend to accept ANY flight-deck crew-member to join the AOA.
So Liam it seems you may be a fellow '89 er?
I am, and I'm proud of it.
Been there, got the teashirt and after all the BS of the last 20 years I can proudly say I'm still sticking with the union through thick and thin ( membership )
At the end of the day I would like better T & C's for all of us, we are after all fellow Pilot's aren't we?
How's about with try working together for a change for the common good of all instead of arranging sweet deals for ourselves ( A scale TC extendees on Auss bases for eg )
What the hell have we to lose anyway?
If Cx wanna bust us then so be it.
But don't give up before you begin.
I am, and I'm proud of it.
Been there, got the teashirt and after all the BS of the last 20 years I can proudly say I'm still sticking with the union through thick and thin ( membership )
At the end of the day I would like better T & C's for all of us, we are after all fellow Pilot's aren't we?
How's about with try working together for a change for the common good of all instead of arranging sweet deals for ourselves ( A scale TC extendees on Auss bases for eg )
What the hell have we to lose anyway?
If Cx wanna bust us then so be it.
But don't give up before you begin.
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Followership
"So Liam it seems you may be a fellow '89 er?"
So ACMS it seems you are a fellow who can't be bothered to use the Search function; but hey why would you bother when bigotry and pidgeon-holing is an easy option.
This illustrates the major problem with the AOA; the membership fails to keep themselves informed about what's going on. How many times have you heard guys on the Flightdeck whinging about the volume of emails/updates they receive from the AOA; look how many failed to vote in the first RP vote. Look how many failed to participate in the recent Survey.
As aside, putting "The Management" on your banned list is regrettable. His posts are incredibly well researched, thought provoking, and I imagine only come about through effort on his behalf. I do not see why your blood pressure would rise; it is me (as a non-member) he is attacking. Of all the posters on this forum he is, by a margin, the cheerleader-in-chief for the AOA. I am also pretty confident that should things get tough, his gusset would remain dry, sequins intact and hands very firmly on the pom-poms.
So ACMS it seems you are a fellow who can't be bothered to use the Search function; but hey why would you bother when bigotry and pidgeon-holing is an easy option.
This illustrates the major problem with the AOA; the membership fails to keep themselves informed about what's going on. How many times have you heard guys on the Flightdeck whinging about the volume of emails/updates they receive from the AOA; look how many failed to vote in the first RP vote. Look how many failed to participate in the recent Survey.
As aside, putting "The Management" on your banned list is regrettable. His posts are incredibly well researched, thought provoking, and I imagine only come about through effort on his behalf. I do not see why your blood pressure would rise; it is me (as a non-member) he is attacking. Of all the posters on this forum he is, by a margin, the cheerleader-in-chief for the AOA. I am also pretty confident that should things get tough, his gusset would remain dry, sequins intact and hands very firmly on the pom-poms.
Last edited by Liam Gallagher; 5th Aug 2008 at 05:31.
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Can you guys get a room or start your own thread, this is very tiring!!!! What started as a good discussion has one again degenerated into personal attacks and dribble. Either we get back on the thread or the moderator should drop this whole thread...come on guys!!!!
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Point taken
Sorry guys/girls...my mistake.... The AOA is wonderful... no problems exist.....it's perfectly acceptable to post highly negative AOA comments one day and the next day pick up the pom-poms... my mistake for taking these individuals to task.... how dare I....
Happy?
PS Fenwicksgirl.... you want to debate. What are your new President's policies that separate him from the previous President?
Happy?
PS Fenwicksgirl.... you want to debate. What are your new President's policies that separate him from the previous President?
Last edited by Liam Gallagher; 5th Aug 2008 at 05:27.
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Liam, no probs, thats fair enough!!
I believe the current Prez shows a "willingness" to tackle the problems we have and has a plan to go about it. First and foremost is recruiting, he makes it clear this is number one and that without good membership we cant expect too much. So on this, JF will be manning the members lounge at CX Mon-Fri to take questions etc. The GC has been given a mandate to tackle the membership numbers (i know this through contacts).
Once the membership numbers are respectable, the GC can then do their job more productively as they then truly represent the pilot body!!!
If the company still chooses not to listen, we have the numbers to apply some "pressure" to make the company see reason
So, anyway, whats your plan??
I believe the current Prez shows a "willingness" to tackle the problems we have and has a plan to go about it. First and foremost is recruiting, he makes it clear this is number one and that without good membership we cant expect too much. So on this, JF will be manning the members lounge at CX Mon-Fri to take questions etc. The GC has been given a mandate to tackle the membership numbers (i know this through contacts).
Once the membership numbers are respectable, the GC can then do their job more productively as they then truly represent the pilot body!!!
If the company still chooses not to listen, we have the numbers to apply some "pressure" to make the company see reason
So, anyway, whats your plan??
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Fenwicksgirl
The thing is... it's not my place to come up with a plan.... PW, ably assisted by your good self, Saturn, ACMS are trying to sell the Union to me; I am not trying to sell you anything.
Thanks for regurgitating the video... I did watch it... I was looking for, and hoping that you may point out, where in the video I can identify a point of difference between this "New AOA" (plucked from the title of this thread) and the old AOA's under ST, MG, ND, TP (ie the one's I chose not to join).
You say the "new prez" has a
"willingness" to tackle the problems...
are you saying the old AOA had an "unwillingness" to tackle problems?
You say...
If the company still chooses not to listen, we have the numbers to apply some "pressure" to make the company see reason
By "pressure" are you saying the "new prez" may ask me to go on strike should he get the requisite numbers? Don't you think I might like to know this before I join? Or will he only require me to wear my tie pin?
Don't get me wrong, I can see the value of belonging to an AOA representing 100% of the pilot body. To do that we have know and believe in the policies of the President... on PPrune awhile back there was a thread calling for "Same job... same pay"... where does the "New Prez" stand on that one?
Thanks for regurgitating the video... I did watch it... I was looking for, and hoping that you may point out, where in the video I can identify a point of difference between this "New AOA" (plucked from the title of this thread) and the old AOA's under ST, MG, ND, TP (ie the one's I chose not to join).
You say the "new prez" has a
"willingness" to tackle the problems...
are you saying the old AOA had an "unwillingness" to tackle problems?
You say...
If the company still chooses not to listen, we have the numbers to apply some "pressure" to make the company see reason
By "pressure" are you saying the "new prez" may ask me to go on strike should he get the requisite numbers? Don't you think I might like to know this before I join? Or will he only require me to wear my tie pin?
Don't get me wrong, I can see the value of belonging to an AOA representing 100% of the pilot body. To do that we have know and believe in the policies of the President... on PPrune awhile back there was a thread calling for "Same job... same pay"... where does the "New Prez" stand on that one?
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so what about our payrise ....
What is the AOA going to do about our overdue payrise ? , I dont have any money left at the end of the month anymore.., inflation is killing me .Anyone else in the same boat?
Bloomberg.com: Asia
Bloomberg.com: Asia
I said you "may be a fellow 89 er"
goathead...............unless we improve the membership numbers we wont be getting anything extra, especially with the company having the fuel price "crisis" excuse.
goathead...............unless we improve the membership numbers we wont be getting anything extra, especially with the company having the fuel price "crisis" excuse.
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It's not exactly rocket science, but some people just don't get it.
There is no them when it comes to the union. It is just us, with me being a part.
Pathetic excuses for guys too cheap to pitch in, leaving the rest of us to foot the bill.
There is no them when it comes to the union. It is just us, with me being a part.
What is the AOA going to do about our overdue payrise
What has the union ever done for me...
They're just looking our for themselves.
Last edited by quadspeed; 6th Aug 2008 at 02:58.
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GC Policies?
I must have a different view on democracy compared to most posters on Pprune. I don't remember reading prescriptive manifestos on how T+C's could be improved. So Liam et al, me thinketh we need the membership to tell us what THEY are prepared to do. With non-membership at 45% that tells me that 45% are happy with current T+C's and/or are not prepared to do anything about it. 55% are members and whilst many of us have been very unhappy with the way the past has unfolded, I personally feel now is the make or break time for my involvement. If in6-12months time we have 50-60% membership then we should do what IluvPx and everyone else suggests, disband the union and just act like we work on individual contracts for the likes of Asiana.
I have often been accused of being too optimistic - I hope the naysayers are wrong.
Two thoughts I would like to leave you with:
The past defines where you start from, not where you are heading.
CX, its just a job!
endat.
I have often been accused of being too optimistic - I hope the naysayers are wrong.
Two thoughts I would like to leave you with:
The past defines where you start from, not where you are heading.
CX, its just a job!
endat.