CX Direct Entry Capt
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Purposely fail nother professional?
Look slightly over to KAL and Asiana. They're hiring DECs and DEFOs also - at a higher payscale than the locals. If you guys really want the DECs and DEFOs off the property, tell some of your check pilot mates to just "fail" the new blokes. It's a dirty tactic, but seems to actually have an effect compared to the spineless, worthless unions they have over there like yours.
Join Date: Nov 2007
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Cathay have been changing the rules for years when it comes to CandT. Just look at that ridiculous 'relief' qualification. Five years ago you would have to sweat blood and piss nails to get 3 stripes. The pay rise was spectacular as well!! Another classic case of Cathay's interpretation of effort versus reward!! Now they give you 4 stripes at your first interview (along with your new joiners lube and butt plug). BUT OHHHHH NOOOOOO we're not dropping our standards!! Like F@ck they're not!!
W@nkers!!!!!
W@nkers!!!!!
Last edited by BandH; 5th Jun 2008 at 01:06.
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FlexibleResponse,
Yes, I am sad AND bitter to see how our profession has deteriorated into the gutter over the years due to s&%tty management. Just stated a few factual examples. I browse the Pprune and other forums once in a while and am sad to read more negatives than positives in these forums all over.
Oh well, I guess times do change...
Yes, I am sad AND bitter to see how our profession has deteriorated into the gutter over the years due to s&%tty management. Just stated a few factual examples. I browse the Pprune and other forums once in a while and am sad to read more negatives than positives in these forums all over.
Oh well, I guess times do change...
Question for you guys.
I know a guy that was in Air Hong Kong back about 6 years ago ( the days when they operated the 747's in blue ) as a Capt.
We integrated some of them into CX into the Freighter fleet after we bought AHK? right?
So how come his date of Joining is shown as 1995 in Crew Direct and now he is checking out on the 400 PAX fleet as a Capt HKG base? ( I think he's flying PAX now )
Why isn't his DOJ around 2002? The date of the integration.
How did he get a number based on 1995 DOJ? How does he rate a 400 CN position?
Could someone refresh my memory as to how they were integrated in CX seniority list please?
Ta
I know a guy that was in Air Hong Kong back about 6 years ago ( the days when they operated the 747's in blue ) as a Capt.
We integrated some of them into CX into the Freighter fleet after we bought AHK? right?
So how come his date of Joining is shown as 1995 in Crew Direct and now he is checking out on the 400 PAX fleet as a Capt HKG base? ( I think he's flying PAX now )
Why isn't his DOJ around 2002? The date of the integration.
How did he get a number based on 1995 DOJ? How does he rate a 400 CN position?
Could someone refresh my memory as to how they were integrated in CX seniority list please?
Ta
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Why isn't his DOJ around 2002? The date of the integration.
Also, in 2000 an opportunity was made available for ASL crews to join VETA at the bottom of the seniority list. These crews are now becoming senior enough to take a pax command.
Regards
csd
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For all these guys, DoJ will either be 1 Jan 2000 (the date of the integration) if they're ex-ASL or whenever they Joined CX if they just went there for an early command.
It sounds like the guy you're referring to was a CX F/O, took a fr8r command in say 2000-2004 and is now coming back to the pax fleet.
If he was ex-ASL then, as csd wrote, he must be one of the more senior ex-ASL guys who now hold the seniority for a pax command.
It sounds like the guy you're referring to was a CX F/O, took a fr8r command in say 2000-2004 and is now coming back to the pax fleet.
If he was ex-ASL then, as csd wrote, he must be one of the more senior ex-ASL guys who now hold the seniority for a pax command.
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Stillalbatros and ACMS,
You both seem to peddle an impressive amout of bullsh1t disguised as fact on this website.
Fact 1 : they joined to fly frtr a/c only-agreed
Fact 2 : company intergration sponsored by AOA took place Jan 1 2000. Any time served prior to Jan 1 2000 working for CX subsiduary (ASL) or partly owned companies (AHK) was not taken into consideration when implementing seniority list
Fact 3 : officers now move to pax fleet on seniority.
ACMS quote "So how come his date of Joining is shown as 1995 in Crew Direct and now he is checking out on the 400 PAX fleet as a Capt HKG base? ( I think he's flying PAX now )"
Date of joining and date of inclusion onto seniority list are different. Date of joining was retained only for travel benefits. Date of seniority dictates when pax fleet becomes available.
ACMS quote" We integrated some of them into CX into the Freighter fleet after we bought AHK? right?
No, all of AHK were intergrated. Some in ASL chose to remain for various reasons. F/O's who were close to command stayed in ASL due 3 in 4 rule where by 3 of every 4 frtr commands would go to ASL. Some Captains stayed due to age 60 retirement in ASL. Those that did not intergrate in 2000 now sit with seniority numbers around the 2200 mark as final intergration took place in Jan 1 2008. ASL exists now purely as an employment entity for the remaining Flt Engineers.
Stillalbatross quote :Then after joining on the freighter ran to the AOA and said get us all pax jobs.
Utter misrepresentation of the truth. Check your facts or ask someone who was here at the time that the AOA approached the ASL body and jointly set this up in an effort to address split nature of the pilot group and to boost numbers. It is obvious from your response that you joined post 2000 otherwise you would know this. Regardless of your DOJ you have not been affected.
Further quote : Hence all pax crews from here on in lose 4 yrs command time and about $9 million in pay because of them.
More crap: They joined the seniority list in 2000. Everyone who joined before them and has been CAT A assessed has been given a command course.
Stillalbatross again: quote Plenty on the pax fleet interviewed for a pax job well before them and have ended up waiting for a pax command that will occur after them. Much like KA coming across to take pax commands.
Crap: KA are not taking pax commands and I challenge you to provide anyone who "interviewed for a pax job well before them and have ended up waiting for a pax command that will occur after them" because they just do not exist.
Now go check under your bed for Commies!
You both seem to peddle an impressive amout of bullsh1t disguised as fact on this website.
Fact 1 : they joined to fly frtr a/c only-agreed
Fact 2 : company intergration sponsored by AOA took place Jan 1 2000. Any time served prior to Jan 1 2000 working for CX subsiduary (ASL) or partly owned companies (AHK) was not taken into consideration when implementing seniority list
Fact 3 : officers now move to pax fleet on seniority.
ACMS quote "So how come his date of Joining is shown as 1995 in Crew Direct and now he is checking out on the 400 PAX fleet as a Capt HKG base? ( I think he's flying PAX now )"
Date of joining and date of inclusion onto seniority list are different. Date of joining was retained only for travel benefits. Date of seniority dictates when pax fleet becomes available.
ACMS quote" We integrated some of them into CX into the Freighter fleet after we bought AHK? right?
No, all of AHK were intergrated. Some in ASL chose to remain for various reasons. F/O's who were close to command stayed in ASL due 3 in 4 rule where by 3 of every 4 frtr commands would go to ASL. Some Captains stayed due to age 60 retirement in ASL. Those that did not intergrate in 2000 now sit with seniority numbers around the 2200 mark as final intergration took place in Jan 1 2008. ASL exists now purely as an employment entity for the remaining Flt Engineers.
Stillalbatross quote :Then after joining on the freighter ran to the AOA and said get us all pax jobs.
Utter misrepresentation of the truth. Check your facts or ask someone who was here at the time that the AOA approached the ASL body and jointly set this up in an effort to address split nature of the pilot group and to boost numbers. It is obvious from your response that you joined post 2000 otherwise you would know this. Regardless of your DOJ you have not been affected.
Further quote : Hence all pax crews from here on in lose 4 yrs command time and about $9 million in pay because of them.
More crap: They joined the seniority list in 2000. Everyone who joined before them and has been CAT A assessed has been given a command course.
Stillalbatross again: quote Plenty on the pax fleet interviewed for a pax job well before them and have ended up waiting for a pax command that will occur after them. Much like KA coming across to take pax commands.
Crap: KA are not taking pax commands and I challenge you to provide anyone who "interviewed for a pax job well before them and have ended up waiting for a pax command that will occur after them" because they just do not exist.
Now go check under your bed for Commies!
Last edited by fire wall; 9th Jun 2008 at 07:38.
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Thanks for your reply Fire Wall. I wanted to say the same thing but felt I may be banging my head against a brick wall. You saved me the typing.
Stillalbatros,
Is there anything in Fire Walls post that is incorrect? I think it's spot on. Please don't take your grievances out on the ASL chaps. They just happened to work for a different freight company before they joined this airline. Simple.
Stillalbatros,
Is there anything in Fire Walls post that is incorrect? I think it's spot on. Please don't take your grievances out on the ASL chaps. They just happened to work for a different freight company before they joined this airline. Simple.
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OK, here we go again -
stillalbatross quote: "and then approached the AOA ...."
Please advise all as to who approached the AOA?
ASL reps were persona non grata so it wasn't them.
further quote "freighter command with only a 40% reduction in pay in your HKG F/O package " (Love the "only" bit. Pure Gold)
How do you get it so wrong? The pay scales for all bases and all ranks are available as an addenum to the COS. Your sums do not add up.
Basically Stillalbatross you do not have a clue as to what has transpired over the last 8 years and you have absolutely no reason to feel agrieved because those that are going to the pax fleet now joined the company long before you did. It's called seniority.
Duh
stillalbatross quote: "and then approached the AOA ...."
Please advise all as to who approached the AOA?
ASL reps were persona non grata so it wasn't them.
further quote "freighter command with only a 40% reduction in pay in your HKG F/O package " (Love the "only" bit. Pure Gold)
How do you get it so wrong? The pay scales for all bases and all ranks are available as an addenum to the COS. Your sums do not add up.
Basically Stillalbatross you do not have a clue as to what has transpired over the last 8 years and you have absolutely no reason to feel agrieved because those that are going to the pax fleet now joined the company long before you did. It's called seniority.
Duh
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Stillalbatross
To make your "sums" work now you are adding in "Housing" + Schooling" + "Medical". They just make it possible to live here you pl*nker, I would NOT expect to get them in my home country!
To make your "sums" work now you are adding in "Housing" + Schooling" + "Medical". They just make it possible to live here you pl*nker, I would NOT expect to get them in my home country!
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They had an opportunity care of the AOA and they took it and avoided doing the S/O years.
I met an SO when I joined who told me that the average ASL captain was "sub standard because they hadn't been through the rigorous passenger fleet selection process" and was therefore not worthy of the same recognition as himself. Ooh please, come on chaps, get a grip. This post is not a dig at SO's. But if you're twenty something with some twin time, then you can't expect the same opportunities as a forty something who's been around a bit.
I repeat. This is not a dig at SO's but just my thoughts on the real world. There's more to life than Cathay and the ASL blokes I flew with had a lifetime of experience and knew that this place shouldn't be taken too seriously. As NC says, "its only a job."
As myself and Fire Wall have said before, if you joined the CX seniority list before these guys, then you have nothing to worry about. They will get a pax command after you. Now if you're man enough to go across to the freighter and suffer the roster and the lifestyle for a few years, then be my guest. You'll have to drink beer with the ASL blokes though and heaven forbid, even have to get used to Flight Engineers. Now we're talking.
By the way. I accept that the ASL thing did delay commands for a many FO's on the passenger fleet. But ASL was the companies little baby and not the AOA's. If you have an issue with ASL then I suggest you take it up with the management and not each other. That just furthers the "divide and conquer" policy, which is exactly what they want.
Flame away.............
Fire Wall........you have control.
PS: My wife thinks I should get a life and stop reading this s**t. Maybe she's got a point.
Last edited by Bow Inn; 9th Jun 2008 at 13:22.
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stillalbatross,
quote: You know as well as I do that a lot of guys wanted to join CX and not as an S/O.
No dispute with you S.A. Still happens to this day.
quote: Are you telling me that for the good of the pax fleet and the career progression of the S/O joiners (no DEFO's back then) the freighter amalgamation back into the pax fleet took place? Bwahaahaahaa.
No, this is not what I have said. Try re reading what I wrote some two posts back. What I am trying to get thru to you is that on the date of intergration the ex ASL officers (Captains and First Officers) received a seniority number along with any of the S/O's and F/O's that joined on that same day (yes, contrary to your statement cx was employing direct entry F/O's on the Frtr ). That seniority number has moved foward due attrition / resignations and now sits at the mid 900 mark. What you seem to have misunderstood is that the intergration was brought about to counter the divisive nature of ASL as a bargaining tool against the company. Further, the process was initiated by the AOA not, as you so eloquently state "they ran to the AOA and said get us all pax positions".
I am reticent to call into question your integrity but if you had spoken to the sitting GC or president at the time you would not be sprouting such rubbish.
Time for nosh.
quote: You know as well as I do that a lot of guys wanted to join CX and not as an S/O.
No dispute with you S.A. Still happens to this day.
quote: Are you telling me that for the good of the pax fleet and the career progression of the S/O joiners (no DEFO's back then) the freighter amalgamation back into the pax fleet took place? Bwahaahaahaa.
No, this is not what I have said. Try re reading what I wrote some two posts back. What I am trying to get thru to you is that on the date of intergration the ex ASL officers (Captains and First Officers) received a seniority number along with any of the S/O's and F/O's that joined on that same day (yes, contrary to your statement cx was employing direct entry F/O's on the Frtr ). That seniority number has moved foward due attrition / resignations and now sits at the mid 900 mark. What you seem to have misunderstood is that the intergration was brought about to counter the divisive nature of ASL as a bargaining tool against the company. Further, the process was initiated by the AOA not, as you so eloquently state "they ran to the AOA and said get us all pax positions".
I am reticent to call into question your integrity but if you had spoken to the sitting GC or president at the time you would not be sprouting such rubbish.
Time for nosh.
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Is it me, or have this forum getting more like my school days?
As a bunch of professionals with a fair amount of common sense it amazes me how we can all be fighting between ourselves like pathetic little kids in the school playground. When are we all going to stand together and stand up for what we deserve.
Stop the bloody infighting.........
As a bunch of professionals with a fair amount of common sense it amazes me how we can all be fighting between ourselves like pathetic little kids in the school playground. When are we all going to stand together and stand up for what we deserve.
Stop the bloody infighting.........
All I know is that this guy was with AHK from '95. He was a Capt on the 742 classic and in 2000 he must have joined the CX seniority list. Now he's got a 744 Pax left seat based in HK on a fairly good housing allowance.
How'd he rate that after only 8 years on our list?
How'd he rate that after only 8 years on our list?
Well that's why I put the question forward to you all. I hope he's only for the freighter fleet.
BUT how does he get a generous housing allowance then? I thought the freighter guys were getting screwed on a HKG basing?
BUT how does he get a generous housing allowance then? I thought the freighter guys were getting screwed on a HKG basing?
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bow inn
i think we should all listen to your wife....she does speak with a tongue full of common sense
i think we should all listen to your wife....she does speak with a tongue full of common sense
http://youtube.com/watch?v=SjxY9rZwN...eature=related