The Demise of Hong Kong Airlines
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HKE Stepping stone
You forgot to mention the filthy illegal tactics the snakes used in the first place to win the dark Hainan Lords hearts and get reputable managers fired. Plus the thousands extra they spent on extra training so they could get the type rating.
You forgot to mention the filthy illegal tactics the snakes used in the first place to win the dark Hainan Lords hearts and get reputable managers fired. Plus the thousands extra they spent on extra training so they could get the type rating.
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My oh my....another one born
Gear down and locked....can you possibly fathom WHY
Fark me, some idiots can't see reason unless they get hit with a bloody bat around the ears
You go ahead and apply, you sound like just the type of dim witted sucker they are looking for
the "good old days" of pilots commanding huge salaries are numbered. there are always going to be people willing to work for less, to follow their dreams or to make a living. eventually all companies will want to only pay as much as they have to in order to keep going.
You go ahead and apply, you sound like just the type of dim witted sucker they are looking for
Gear down and locked,
Do yourself a huge favour and revisit the start of this thread and actually READ what is being said here!
I once worked for these F$#% snakes and believe me, what is said throughout this thread is pretty damn accurate.
If you decide to go for it with HKA, then you will be the author of your own demise
Do yourself a huge favour and revisit the start of this thread and actually READ what is being said here!
I once worked for these F$#% snakes and believe me, what is said throughout this thread is pretty damn accurate.
If you decide to go for it with HKA, then you will be the author of your own demise
I see you're from the UK. Consider what's on offer and then consider than comparing square foot for sqaure foot, housing costs are about five times higher in HK than the UK, you get the picture!
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HKE Fail to Operate China Airlines Wetlease Freighter
HKE went through the process of having a B747 freighter wt lease approved. They were going to use a China Airlines 747, but typically, they never got it running. I remember seeing that a member of the HKE board blocked their application for route rights every time they attempted to get route rights.
I recall there was an article in the SCMP about it, does anybody have copy?
I recall there was an article in the SCMP about it, does anybody have copy?
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Got a email from a guy asking questions about the 330 and I thought I would share the information I have been given by people in the know, to help you all make a good decision.
My reply to him....
· A330 has been DELAYED until after August 2010.
· They DO NOT PAY PROMISED GRATUITY. It was in Old contract and they just removed it so pilots do not get it. It has yet to be re-introduced. If they do re-introduce the 3 year gratuity, expect to do 2 years and 11 months then they decide not pay you, or sack you. They did this last time, and under Hong Kong law they got away with it when the pilots tried to sue them.
· Word around the office is the pay will be 7500 USD (including all salary + flight pay) for first officer MAXIMUM. Captains 8800 including all flight pay and salary. Try bringing your family to Hong Kong for that.
· Just remember this company has a history of promising one thing, and after you arrive they change the deal. They have done this several times.
· If you come here to HKA you will be welcomed by the flight crew who are very friendly, but the management have still not re-earnt the lost trust. Be careful of them. Especially the ones that are in charge of this A330 thing and the one that came to see you.
· I would stay there if I was you, as most pilots at HKA are looking to get other jobs. This should sound warning bells for you.
One more thing to consider... There are many first officers in the company some with THOUSANDS of jet hours in 747, 737 and even airbus etc, and they were promised commands after 6 months to a year. Some previously worked for Cathay Pacific, Dragonair, or Oasis. Well 2 or 4 years after they joined they are still F/Os. Do you trust them to honor this command in 1 year promise????
· Do you really trust them to give you free endorsement and 1 year bond? Or will they change the deal after you resigned from you current job and moved your entire life to Hong Kong???
good luck.
Tell your friends this info who are considering going there. Need to spread the word out there that the managers can not be trusted. Sorry to tell you the bad news.
Good Day Sir
my name is ******. I am from ********* Airlines
Recently the CCO Ronald come to *********
to give us a talk about joining. We were promise command opportunity in 1 yr min.. and he say new 330 will be coming to hkg in march and first flight will be to moscow.
the pay gross is pretty good with about USD9000 per month for fo taking 75 hrs per month flying hours...
tax is about 15% and gratiuty of 15% too.
according to him .. they r kicking off the 330 sim trg for the Capt in Dec...in beijing...
and yeah.... 1 yr training bond... and its free rating for 330...
all wat he say seems pretty good. So a group of use was tinking of going over to try.Do u hve an advice?....
can u pls kindly help...
thank u so much for ur time..
Name withheld
my name is ******. I am from ********* Airlines
Recently the CCO Ronald come to *********
to give us a talk about joining. We were promise command opportunity in 1 yr min.. and he say new 330 will be coming to hkg in march and first flight will be to moscow. the pay gross is pretty good with about USD9000 per month for fo taking 75 hrs per month flying hours...
tax is about 15% and gratiuty of 15% too.
according to him .. they r kicking off the 330 sim trg for the Capt in Dec...in beijing...
and yeah.... 1 yr training bond... and its free rating for 330...
all wat he say seems pretty good. So a group of use was tinking of going over to try.Do u hve an advice?....
can u pls kindly help...
thank u so much for ur time..
Name withheld
· A330 has been DELAYED until after August 2010.
· They DO NOT PAY PROMISED GRATUITY. It was in Old contract and they just removed it so pilots do not get it. It has yet to be re-introduced. If they do re-introduce the 3 year gratuity, expect to do 2 years and 11 months then they decide not pay you, or sack you. They did this last time, and under Hong Kong law they got away with it when the pilots tried to sue them.
· Word around the office is the pay will be 7500 USD (including all salary + flight pay) for first officer MAXIMUM. Captains 8800 including all flight pay and salary. Try bringing your family to Hong Kong for that.
· Just remember this company has a history of promising one thing, and after you arrive they change the deal. They have done this several times.
· If you come here to HKA you will be welcomed by the flight crew who are very friendly, but the management have still not re-earnt the lost trust. Be careful of them. Especially the ones that are in charge of this A330 thing and the one that came to see you.
· I would stay there if I was you, as most pilots at HKA are looking to get other jobs. This should sound warning bells for you.
One more thing to consider... There are many first officers in the company some with THOUSANDS of jet hours in 747, 737 and even airbus etc, and they were promised commands after 6 months to a year. Some previously worked for Cathay Pacific, Dragonair, or Oasis. Well 2 or 4 years after they joined they are still F/Os. Do you trust them to honor this command in 1 year promise????
· Do you really trust them to give you free endorsement and 1 year bond? Or will they change the deal after you resigned from you current job and moved your entire life to Hong Kong???
good luck.
Tell your friends this info who are considering going there. Need to spread the word out there that the managers can not be trusted. Sorry to tell you the bad news.
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HKE Fail to Operate China Airlines Wetlease Freighter
HKE went through the process of having a B747 freighter wt lease approved. They were going to use a China Airlines 747, but typically, they never got it running. I remember seeing that a member of the HKE board blocked their application for route rights every time they attempted to get route rights.
I recall there was an article in the SCMP about it, does anybody have copy?
HKE went through the process of having a B747 freighter wt lease approved. They were going to use a China Airlines 747, but typically, they never got it running. I remember seeing that a member of the HKE board blocked their application for route rights every time they attempted to get route rights.
I recall there was an article in the SCMP about it, does anybody have copy?
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HKE Mismanagement
Thanks IP! I found the article in the SCMP.
Friday July 3 2009
HK Express air-cargo bid flies into headwind
Charlotte So
Plans by Hong Kong Express Airways to launch a cargo service in September are being blocked by one of its shareholders.
Andrew Tse (below), who owns 14.7 per cent of the small city airline that is controlled by the mainland's HNA Group, filed an objection with the Air Transport Licensing Authority after Hong Kong Express applied for a cargo licence.
'Until the airline hands in a comprehensive feasibility study on the cargo service, I will continue to put in an injunction whenever it reapplies for a licence,' said Mr Tse, who asked that any licence hearing involving the carrier be made public.The airline withdrew the application but had since submitted another one, an Alta spokesman confirmed.
Mr Tse, a nephew of Stanley Ho Hung-sun, who owns about 40 per cent of Hong Kong Express, said management promised the board in a meeting in April it would present a detailed business plan for the cargo service.
The airline, which offers passenger services to mainland and Asian cities, planned to operate three weekly cargo flights from Hong Kong to Luxembourg via Abu Dhabi from September 18, president Yang Jianhong said. He said the air-cargo business was showing 'green shoots' and the firm wanted to get in early to seize on low aircraft leasing fees.
'We would like to reap the rewards of any upswing in the cargo market by entering the market at a low point,' Mr Yang said.
Hong Kong Express has been granted a three-month licence by the Civil Aviation Department to lease a Boeing 747-400 freighter from Taiwan's China Airlines. But before it becomes permanent, the airline has to be given a cargo licence by the Air Transport Licensing Authority.
Mr Yang said the airline had a strong case for launching a cargo business as he expected the sector to start recovering in the fourth quarter.
Friday July 3 2009
HK Express air-cargo bid flies into headwind
Charlotte So
Plans by Hong Kong Express Airways to launch a cargo service in September are being blocked by one of its shareholders.
Andrew Tse (below), who owns 14.7 per cent of the small city airline that is controlled by the mainland's HNA Group, filed an objection with the Air Transport Licensing Authority after Hong Kong Express applied for a cargo licence.
'Until the airline hands in a comprehensive feasibility study on the cargo service, I will continue to put in an injunction whenever it reapplies for a licence,' said Mr Tse, who asked that any licence hearing involving the carrier be made public.The airline withdrew the application but had since submitted another one, an Alta spokesman confirmed.
Mr Tse, a nephew of Stanley Ho Hung-sun, who owns about 40 per cent of Hong Kong Express, said management promised the board in a meeting in April it would present a detailed business plan for the cargo service.
The airline, which offers passenger services to mainland and Asian cities, planned to operate three weekly cargo flights from Hong Kong to Luxembourg via Abu Dhabi from September 18, president Yang Jianhong said. He said the air-cargo business was showing 'green shoots' and the firm wanted to get in early to seize on low aircraft leasing fees.
'We would like to reap the rewards of any upswing in the cargo market by entering the market at a low point,' Mr Yang said.
Hong Kong Express has been granted a three-month licence by the Civil Aviation Department to lease a Boeing 747-400 freighter from Taiwan's China Airlines. But before it becomes permanent, the airline has to be given a cargo licence by the Air Transport Licensing Authority.
Mr Yang said the airline had a strong case for launching a cargo business as he expected the sector to start recovering in the fourth quarter.
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I would agree that the most important consideration when thinking of joining HKA/HKE is whether to trust that the deal you sign will stay the same. Some pilots have got stuck there having signed rental agreements, moved their family and signed training bonds and now regret it.
I used to advise single guys (HK is too expensive for family guys on HKA/HKE salaries) to come and get quick experience and then leave. But now I wouldn't even advise this.
For example;
- No Paid Leave started by sending txt messages to pilots the night before they report telling them that they now have a week's NPL every month (i.e. 25% pay cut)
- 2 weeks notice that basic wages had been cut 40-50%, annual leave reduced from 14 days (plus 16 public holiday) to 12 + PHs. Those that didn't sign got sacked.
- 4 pilots promised commuter contracts at interview. They finish their training; no commuter contract.
- pilots put in dormitory type accommodation, cabin crew sharing rooms (both now stopped by CAD).
- promised command upgrades not happening for years
- annual flights to home country and shipping allowance removed from contract
- reduction of medical cover by finding cheaper and cheaper policies (medical treatment is expensive in HK!)
- promotions given without the accompanying pay rise!
And these things are still happening now.
Many other injustices and disceptions are documented in this thread.
The way employees are treated by management is reflected by the huge number of cases that have taken through the Labour Tribunal courts by employees over the last 2 years.
Suppliers, contractors, hotels, they have all had difficulty dealing with HKA/HKE which (along with bad management and poor safety culture) is why they have such an appalling reputation in Hong Kong and beyond.
As a pilot thinking of joining, you need to ask yourself 2 questions;
1. Do you trust that the contract you sign and the promises you are made will be honoured?
2. Do you want the bad reputation of this company to be attached to you by having it on your CV?
I used to advise single guys (HK is too expensive for family guys on HKA/HKE salaries) to come and get quick experience and then leave. But now I wouldn't even advise this.
For example;
- No Paid Leave started by sending txt messages to pilots the night before they report telling them that they now have a week's NPL every month (i.e. 25% pay cut)
- 2 weeks notice that basic wages had been cut 40-50%, annual leave reduced from 14 days (plus 16 public holiday) to 12 + PHs. Those that didn't sign got sacked.
- 4 pilots promised commuter contracts at interview. They finish their training; no commuter contract.
- pilots put in dormitory type accommodation, cabin crew sharing rooms (both now stopped by CAD).
- promised command upgrades not happening for years
- annual flights to home country and shipping allowance removed from contract
- reduction of medical cover by finding cheaper and cheaper policies (medical treatment is expensive in HK!)
- promotions given without the accompanying pay rise!
And these things are still happening now.
Many other injustices and disceptions are documented in this thread.
The way employees are treated by management is reflected by the huge number of cases that have taken through the Labour Tribunal courts by employees over the last 2 years.
Suppliers, contractors, hotels, they have all had difficulty dealing with HKA/HKE which (along with bad management and poor safety culture) is why they have such an appalling reputation in Hong Kong and beyond.
As a pilot thinking of joining, you need to ask yourself 2 questions;
1. Do you trust that the contract you sign and the promises you are made will be honoured?
2. Do you want the bad reputation of this company to be attached to you by having it on your CV?
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Seems this place is still a mess. Can't understand how they're still operating. With all the t&c getting worse, where is the CP's balls? What is his t&c? eg salary and purks? His deal must be fantastic for him to do the job. Further, what about his side kicks, training manager, instructors and examiners? They all must have interesting deals to continue in this crapy company.
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Just spit up my rum and coke...
I don't even believe Cathay when they "SAY" some airplanes are coming...
Let alone the lyin' Singapricks @ HKA..
God that was the funniest thing I've heard since listening to there court testimony last week..
I don't even believe Cathay when they "SAY" some airplanes are coming...
Let alone the lyin' Singapricks @ HKA..
God that was the funniest thing I've heard since listening to there court testimony last week..
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Airbus 2010 Confirmed????????
Yeah, sure, confirmed along with:
The only plan they appear to be able to execute is how to avoid paying their bills.
- 8 B737-800s (2008)
- A340-600s (2009)
- B777s (2009)
- Wet leased B747 Freighter for HKE (September 2009)
The only plan they appear to be able to execute is how to avoid paying their bills.
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Fantastic news Falconette, lets add that to the list.
So, it's now:
787s 2010 - confirmed, in 2006.
Airbus 2010 - confirmed.
Airbus 2009 - confirmed.
Airbus 2008 - confirmed.
777 - 2007/2008 - confirmed.
747 freighters 2009 - confirmed.
Command Upgrades 2006 (the first in the companies history) - confirmed.
And there's the 767 freighters in there somewhere as well, was that 2008?
Oh, and we mustn't forget the ACJ, a nice Airbus Corporate Jet, what was that for again? Commuting in from our Australian basings?
The man who works in the toilets at the hotel yesterday told me they're going to get the Concorde airworthy again! Fantastic news!
So, it's now:
787s 2010 - confirmed, in 2006.
Airbus 2010 - confirmed.
Airbus 2009 - confirmed.
Airbus 2008 - confirmed.
777 - 2007/2008 - confirmed.
747 freighters 2009 - confirmed.
Command Upgrades 2006 (the first in the companies history) - confirmed.
And there's the 767 freighters in there somewhere as well, was that 2008?
Oh, and we mustn't forget the ACJ, a nice Airbus Corporate Jet, what was that for again? Commuting in from our Australian basings?
The man who works in the toilets at the hotel yesterday told me they're going to get the Concorde airworthy again! Fantastic news!
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I think its obvious guys
Falconette has been exposed as a flight deck wannabe.
Its because he flies regularly as pax it enables him to know more about the industry than those of us who actually work there.
Therefore if he says "confirmed"......it MUST be true
Falconette has been exposed as a flight deck wannabe.
Its because he flies regularly as pax it enables him to know more about the industry than those of us who actually work there.
Therefore if he says "confirmed"......it MUST be true