The Demise of Hong Kong Airlines
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Azlee
Probably hiring for the coming A330..?
Look out Air Hong Kong thread.. might be getting B744 BCF - dry lease, direct entry, not bad!
Heard PEN and SIN base pun ada.! fast track command too.
Happy landings
Probably hiring for the coming A330..?
Look out Air Hong Kong thread.. might be getting B744 BCF - dry lease, direct entry, not bad!
Heard PEN and SIN base pun ada.! fast track command too.
Happy landings
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my mate was told around $6000 US, and that was verbally over the phone, thats for f/o. He wont waste his time and go to the interview anyway.In asia now, if u have 330 time u can get a minmum of 9000 with Korean/Vietnam, so no mug will fly a 330 out of hk for that.
I think he means the HKA recruitment roadshow is being held in KUL, it's not a KUL based airline.
The reason, you can only speculate. Is it because there aren't too many qualified pilots in HK? Or is it because anyone who lives in HK realises that you can't live comfortably on the money they are offering!
The reason, you can only speculate. Is it because there aren't too many qualified pilots in HK? Or is it because anyone who lives in HK realises that you can't live comfortably on the money they are offering!
They could consider to open bases like Air Hong Kong.. Join Date: Mar 2008
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"Can anyone confirm that these clowns held a stealth roadshow in Indonesia hoping to sign up a heap of cheap labor, and not one single Indo accepted their generous offer? 
"
I wouldn't think they will get any Indo pilot now.
Indo aviation is growing up rapidly, Lion 739 is coming one every month, with now they have 2-B744..Batavia Airwith their 330-200 , and Air Asia with their 320s..
Sallary is not so high down there (around us$5-6500 ), but living cost is pretty cheap, plus, they never live in a-box so called tiny-apartment .So, they'd rather stay put..
"I wouldn't think they will get any Indo pilot now.
Indo aviation is growing up rapidly, Lion 739 is coming one every month, with now they have 2-B744..Batavia Airwith their 330-200 , and Air Asia with their 320s..
Sallary is not so high down there (around us$5-6500 ), but living cost is pretty cheap, plus, they never live in a-box so called tiny-apartment .So, they'd rather stay put..
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Roadshow? More like Circus, with the Singas as the main act, even the "real" animals weren't offered enuff to bother turning up!
Believe it, there are some well qualified "European's" seriously looking at Hainan...DEC for an A330 job based in Asia...Good terms and conditions, company Hotel (sorry Hovel) included...
Doesn't matter what goes up on here, people think Hainan is a good deal, and don't realise what the reality is!
Get out while you have some respect, and if you a contemplating, don't go or you'll loose that respect
Believe it, there are some well qualified "European's" seriously looking at Hainan...DEC for an A330 job based in Asia...Good terms and conditions, company Hotel (sorry Hovel) included...
Doesn't matter what goes up on here, people think Hainan is a good deal, and don't realise what the reality is!
Get out while you have some respect, and if you a contemplating, don't go or you'll loose that respect
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HKA/E: Important Interview Information
For the benefit of those who are interested in interviewing with HKA/E, please note the following. This is required knowledge for the interview.
Dear All Colleagues,
Re : Corporate Culture
As the members of Hong Kong Airlines and Hong Kong Express, all staff should familiar with the CORPORATE CULTURE. Staff members are requested to study the following apothegm thoroughly and apply it in daily life.
* Harmony is the basis for collective prosperity;
* Perseverance is the rule to sturdy progress;
* Careful recipe is the best medicine to health;
* Forgiveness is most needed in dispute;
* Kindliness to youth endows the superior with virtue;
* Diligence leads research to accession of knowledge;
* Sincerity is the fundamental in daily life;
* Modesty is the best policy in human relationship;
* Preparation avoids needles drudgery;
* Prudence remains essential in conducting business.
According to the company policy, all staff should keep firmly in mind the apothegm. Human Resources Department will follow up with the colleagues regarding on the practice of apothegm after 2-3 weeks and Management will conduct the random spot check after a month. Please be reminded that Department Head should have the responsibility to ensure his/her subordinates to understand the CORPORATE CULTURE. Please note that punishment will be given to those who could not recite the apothegm.
For the interview, please note that punishment will be enforced for those who cannot recite the apothegm.
A working knowledge of Chinese communism would also be beneficial for those who would like to work for HKA/E.
Dear All Colleagues,
Re : Corporate Culture
As the members of Hong Kong Airlines and Hong Kong Express, all staff should familiar with the CORPORATE CULTURE. Staff members are requested to study the following apothegm thoroughly and apply it in daily life.
* Harmony is the basis for collective prosperity;
* Perseverance is the rule to sturdy progress;
* Careful recipe is the best medicine to health;
* Forgiveness is most needed in dispute;
* Kindliness to youth endows the superior with virtue;
* Diligence leads research to accession of knowledge;
* Sincerity is the fundamental in daily life;
* Modesty is the best policy in human relationship;
* Preparation avoids needles drudgery;
* Prudence remains essential in conducting business.
According to the company policy, all staff should keep firmly in mind the apothegm. Human Resources Department will follow up with the colleagues regarding on the practice of apothegm after 2-3 weeks and Management will conduct the random spot check after a month. Please be reminded that Department Head should have the responsibility to ensure his/her subordinates to understand the CORPORATE CULTURE. Please note that punishment will be given to those who could not recite the apothegm.
For the interview, please note that punishment will be enforced for those who cannot recite the apothegm.
A working knowledge of Chinese communism would also be beneficial for those who would like to work for HKA/E.
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The History of Hong Kong Airlines/Express. (please add anything I forgot to include)
Many years ago….. An Airline start up promised the world, but delivered nothing. Most people conducted interviews in Australia or Brazil and were fed many promises such as commands after 6-10 months for F/O’s, great money and lifestyle in a growing company that would have 40 aircraft by 2011 to be bigger than Dragonair. Those who accepted the job resigned often from very good jobs in their home country for the chance of adventure, to experience a different lifestyle and to receive all the great terms and conditions promised. They uprooted and removed their children from established schools, sold houses and cars, said good byes and shipped all their belongings to Hong Kong.
After arrival in Hong Kong the goal posts were changed…..Agreed wages were reneged on, wages reduced dramatically, contracts were changed and many agreed things were simply now refused. The family were relocated and children were already enrolled in Hong Kong Schools. Old well paying and stable jobs were gone and everyone was already “locked in” to Hong Kong with no chance of turning back. Furniture from the home country was in shipping containers on the way to Hong Kong. etc. We were told…..you don’t like the changes; leave.
Training staff were offered a fraction of the standard industry rate and less than originally agreed. But it was difficult to demand your agreed contract when the family, furniture and life were already moved to Hong Kong especially when the guy you joined with agreed to work for the lower wages and package plus it was a start up and they were happy to just let you go dispite your sacrifice in moving your life up here for them.
A year or so later… Wages reduced more for new forced contract. They say “but look we now have introduced this 15% gratuity YOU ACTUALLY EARN MORE!!! please sign and you will be rewarded greatly for your loyalty and sacrifice.” New contract stripped away many things such as free dry cleaning for work uniform, wages, annual wage increment, yearly free travel home for foreign pilots, repatriation allowance only if approved by management (read no repatriation allowance). In fact MOST foreign pilot conditions were removed. Basically you’re an expat in Hong Kong but no longer on expat conditions. Sign or be fired was the general feeling. Everyone foolishly signed without a fight losing those conditions which will NEVER be re-introduced. Those that did not sign were automatically put on new contract anyway and had no say. You must remember this is China and a contract is only good for wiping your arse on.
April 2009. A year after that, another FORCED contract change. The management attitude was very aggressive and we all knew those that did not sign would be fired; and they were. Salary's slashed 40-60%. They said “oh sorry thanks for the loyalty and sacrificing everything you had to get this 15% gratuity promise, but we can not afford to pay you the promised gratuity”. So now everyone had no travel home, no expat benefits and a salary reduced 3 times but now not even a gratuity. They tried to convince us all in company propaganda meetings…"with this new and improved contract you will earn more money because it is productivity based which means the more you fly the more you earn. Look what you earn when you do 90 hours a month bla bla” They looked us in the eye and lied through their asses. They knew it was kick in the balls it and we knew it, and we both knew it was unlikely we could do anything about it.
They said…"You work a 90 hour month and look at all the money you will earn” ...Well, In the 10 months after these aggressive and forced changes F/O’s have averaged 25-40 hours a month earning about 40-60% less than the original contract if you include all the factors. Now for pure survival many pilots give up thier remaining integrity and beg and harrass the rostering staff to give them more flying hours. They volunteer to work on thier DDO's and offer 24 hour standby, just hoping to pick up a few extra hours. The guys with any integrity refuse to have the rostered DDO's disrupted and they are punished with very low hours meaning very low pay.
April 2009… cabin crew were told they can upgrade to Senior Purser but they will be paid Flight Purser wages. As most F/A’s joined the company to gain experience. The choice was upgrade and get the experience or stay as a junior flight attendant. They were told you do not like it there are many other F/A’s in the company and many others hoping to join that would take the lower wages.
I believe this same idea was also told to HKA pilots and I believe many agreed. For example "you will be upgraded to Captain if you accept First Officer wages" Those who agree get upgraded, those who have integrity get stuck as an F/O forever, however the idea was scrapped perhaps due to CAD intervention? Can you imagine the public outcry if they found out HKA only hired Captains that were willing to work for F/O wages (read the most deperate pilots in the world) (read the absolute bottom of the food chain)
October 2009…. Everyone besides Pilots and Flight attendants has had pay rises back to original levels. The key front line staff (pilots and F/A’s) are still going backward. Most F/O’s with family’s are going backwards. But they are just sitting it out until they can move on. Some first officers think it is worth going backwards financially and putting $10,000 on the credit card a month, rather than quiting and being unemployed putting 50g on the credit card a month. So it is a waiting game. NOT one person in the company wants a long term career there under the current management and contract. It means EVERYONE is looking to find another job with the exception of a few local pilots who do not want to leave.
That, my friends is HKE/HKA in a nutshell. If you still want to join after reading this you still want to join then you deserve to work there.
p.s excuse spelling and grammar, but quite frankly I don’t give a **** what the spelling police think anyway.
Many years ago….. An Airline start up promised the world, but delivered nothing. Most people conducted interviews in Australia or Brazil and were fed many promises such as commands after 6-10 months for F/O’s, great money and lifestyle in a growing company that would have 40 aircraft by 2011 to be bigger than Dragonair. Those who accepted the job resigned often from very good jobs in their home country for the chance of adventure, to experience a different lifestyle and to receive all the great terms and conditions promised. They uprooted and removed their children from established schools, sold houses and cars, said good byes and shipped all their belongings to Hong Kong.
After arrival in Hong Kong the goal posts were changed…..Agreed wages were reneged on, wages reduced dramatically, contracts were changed and many agreed things were simply now refused. The family were relocated and children were already enrolled in Hong Kong Schools. Old well paying and stable jobs were gone and everyone was already “locked in” to Hong Kong with no chance of turning back. Furniture from the home country was in shipping containers on the way to Hong Kong. etc. We were told…..you don’t like the changes; leave.
Training staff were offered a fraction of the standard industry rate and less than originally agreed. But it was difficult to demand your agreed contract when the family, furniture and life were already moved to Hong Kong especially when the guy you joined with agreed to work for the lower wages and package plus it was a start up and they were happy to just let you go dispite your sacrifice in moving your life up here for them.
A year or so later… Wages reduced more for new forced contract. They say “but look we now have introduced this 15% gratuity YOU ACTUALLY EARN MORE!!! please sign and you will be rewarded greatly for your loyalty and sacrifice.” New contract stripped away many things such as free dry cleaning for work uniform, wages, annual wage increment, yearly free travel home for foreign pilots, repatriation allowance only if approved by management (read no repatriation allowance). In fact MOST foreign pilot conditions were removed. Basically you’re an expat in Hong Kong but no longer on expat conditions. Sign or be fired was the general feeling. Everyone foolishly signed without a fight losing those conditions which will NEVER be re-introduced. Those that did not sign were automatically put on new contract anyway and had no say. You must remember this is China and a contract is only good for wiping your arse on.
April 2009. A year after that, another FORCED contract change. The management attitude was very aggressive and we all knew those that did not sign would be fired; and they were. Salary's slashed 40-60%. They said “oh sorry thanks for the loyalty and sacrificing everything you had to get this 15% gratuity promise, but we can not afford to pay you the promised gratuity”. So now everyone had no travel home, no expat benefits and a salary reduced 3 times but now not even a gratuity. They tried to convince us all in company propaganda meetings…"with this new and improved contract you will earn more money because it is productivity based which means the more you fly the more you earn. Look what you earn when you do 90 hours a month bla bla” They looked us in the eye and lied through their asses. They knew it was kick in the balls it and we knew it, and we both knew it was unlikely we could do anything about it.
They said…"You work a 90 hour month and look at all the money you will earn” ...Well, In the 10 months after these aggressive and forced changes F/O’s have averaged 25-40 hours a month earning about 40-60% less than the original contract if you include all the factors. Now for pure survival many pilots give up thier remaining integrity and beg and harrass the rostering staff to give them more flying hours. They volunteer to work on thier DDO's and offer 24 hour standby, just hoping to pick up a few extra hours. The guys with any integrity refuse to have the rostered DDO's disrupted and they are punished with very low hours meaning very low pay.
April 2009… cabin crew were told they can upgrade to Senior Purser but they will be paid Flight Purser wages. As most F/A’s joined the company to gain experience. The choice was upgrade and get the experience or stay as a junior flight attendant. They were told you do not like it there are many other F/A’s in the company and many others hoping to join that would take the lower wages.
I believe this same idea was also told to HKA pilots and I believe many agreed. For example "you will be upgraded to Captain if you accept First Officer wages" Those who agree get upgraded, those who have integrity get stuck as an F/O forever, however the idea was scrapped perhaps due to CAD intervention? Can you imagine the public outcry if they found out HKA only hired Captains that were willing to work for F/O wages (read the most deperate pilots in the world) (read the absolute bottom of the food chain)
October 2009…. Everyone besides Pilots and Flight attendants has had pay rises back to original levels. The key front line staff (pilots and F/A’s) are still going backward. Most F/O’s with family’s are going backwards. But they are just sitting it out until they can move on. Some first officers think it is worth going backwards financially and putting $10,000 on the credit card a month, rather than quiting and being unemployed putting 50g on the credit card a month. So it is a waiting game. NOT one person in the company wants a long term career there under the current management and contract. It means EVERYONE is looking to find another job with the exception of a few local pilots who do not want to leave.
That, my friends is HKE/HKA in a nutshell. If you still want to join after reading this you still want to join then you deserve to work there.
p.s excuse spelling and grammar, but quite frankly I don’t give a **** what the spelling police think anyway.
Last edited by HkeSteppingStone; 30th Oct 2009 at 14:33.
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I was just reading on Wikipedia about all of Hong Kong Airlines ambitious plans. I am all for ambition but it gets to the point where no one will take them seriously unless they start to deliver.
Is this airline just chasing rainbows? All those plans but no results….. Can the industry take these guys seriously?
In addition, the airline had signed a Memorandum of understanding with Boeing for the purchase of 10 Boeing 787's and 30 Boeing 737-800s on 20 December 2005 at a listed price of US$3.28 billion.
The airline made the biggest aircraft order in its young history on 21 June 2007, by ordering 51 narrow- and wide body aircraft from European plane maker, Airbus, at an estimated value of US$5.6 billion. The order was subsequently confirmed with the signing of a firm contract with Airbus on 12 September 2007; and it will be shared between the airline and its sister airline, Hong Kong Express.
On 24 October 2008, the airline announced plans in preparation for the arrival of the Airbus A330-200 wide-body aircraft, which included personnel and fleet composition. The new aircraft will provide medium haul passenger and cargo services to the Middle East and Australia.
Is this airline just chasing rainbows? All those plans but no results….. Can the industry take these guys seriously?