PPL student, questions for other instructors
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Florida
Posts: 13
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
PPL student, questions for other instructors
Hello everyone, I have a few questions about the PPL course and whether or not I'm being milked by my instructor. I am purely getting the PPL for fun, nothing related to my career at all. The most I'm going to be doing with it, is renting planes to fly around Florida.
A little background, I've got near 21 hours racked. I have not been authorized to solo yet nor have I completed the first stage check. Have not started navigation yet either.
My schedule permits me to do 3-4 lessons per week. Lately, I've been getting the feeling that my instructor has purposely been holding me back for me to spend more money. A few days back he made me do S-turns and turns around a point. When I questioned him on why we were doing this instead of doing touch n go's, he didn't really have an answer and said the winds were too heavy, when in reality they were about 7 knots.
I finished the pre-solo exam and we went over it together. He quizzed me on it. I answered about 4 questions slightly wrong out of 50. He said I needed to study more and he'd quiz me another time.
He also has this habit of telling me to come about 20 minutes early to do weight and balance and prechecklist. Then he decides to show up 20 minutes late. So I literally sit there for almost 30 minutes waiting for him. He also writes down wrong times for ground school. He charged me for 1.2 hours the last time, when he only worked with me for about 45 minutes. When I questioned him about this during payment, he laughed and said you should be happy, the quicker we finish the ground school, the quicker we can move along.
I was told by a friend of mine who has his ATPL (and has also seen my flying), that I need to keep pushing the instructor to either let me do the stage check or move on to navigation. And specifically tell him that you aren't learning anything new and you can't keep blowing money on pointless flights.
Any advice from other instructors on my situation? Should I ask for a different instructor? Should I switch schools or should I keep pushing through?
A little background, I've got near 21 hours racked. I have not been authorized to solo yet nor have I completed the first stage check. Have not started navigation yet either.
My schedule permits me to do 3-4 lessons per week. Lately, I've been getting the feeling that my instructor has purposely been holding me back for me to spend more money. A few days back he made me do S-turns and turns around a point. When I questioned him on why we were doing this instead of doing touch n go's, he didn't really have an answer and said the winds were too heavy, when in reality they were about 7 knots.
I finished the pre-solo exam and we went over it together. He quizzed me on it. I answered about 4 questions slightly wrong out of 50. He said I needed to study more and he'd quiz me another time.
He also has this habit of telling me to come about 20 minutes early to do weight and balance and prechecklist. Then he decides to show up 20 minutes late. So I literally sit there for almost 30 minutes waiting for him. He also writes down wrong times for ground school. He charged me for 1.2 hours the last time, when he only worked with me for about 45 minutes. When I questioned him about this during payment, he laughed and said you should be happy, the quicker we finish the ground school, the quicker we can move along.
I was told by a friend of mine who has his ATPL (and has also seen my flying), that I need to keep pushing the instructor to either let me do the stage check or move on to navigation. And specifically tell him that you aren't learning anything new and you can't keep blowing money on pointless flights.
Any advice from other instructors on my situation? Should I ask for a different instructor? Should I switch schools or should I keep pushing through?
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Cranfield UK
Age: 70
Posts: 217
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Oops
Get a new school!
If you are of average intelligence and capability you are right to have such concerns.
Have you checked the syllabus, training manual etc?
Get a second opinion ASAP from an other instructor at least
If you are of average intelligence and capability you are right to have such concerns.
Have you checked the syllabus, training manual etc?
Get a second opinion ASAP from an other instructor at least
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Derby
Age: 45
Posts: 339
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Cough...
It's not easy to tell as it's all from your point of view.
However if you have done 20 hours and not gone solo what is the reason?
Is it because you can't manage landings properly? Is it that your radio is horrible?
You've done everything up to t/o and landings. Normally where I work we would proceed to the next lesson possible if the weather is not sufficient to practice t/o's and landings. In that case it could be advanced turns i.e. steep turns 45-60 deg's bank. Beyond this it would go toward Navigation if the practice of landings cannot be performed. There's a few more examples but you may get the idea.
One thing I should state, you can't let someone get away with charging one hour if you only do 45 minutes of briefing, this to me sounds like theft and does not give a good view of the FI in question.
My sincere opinion is that if you feel there is something wrong, talk to the chief above about it. If you can't handle doing that then talk to the customer service rep if there is one.
OR
If you speak directly to your F.I and he seems not to give a good and clear reason or you feel it's simply not enough- Swap instructors.
If I was in his shoes and didn't feel I could make you any better I'd definately suggest you go with someone else.
PLEASE remember it's YOUR MONEY!!!!
However if you have done 20 hours and not gone solo what is the reason?
Is it because you can't manage landings properly? Is it that your radio is horrible?
You've done everything up to t/o and landings. Normally where I work we would proceed to the next lesson possible if the weather is not sufficient to practice t/o's and landings. In that case it could be advanced turns i.e. steep turns 45-60 deg's bank. Beyond this it would go toward Navigation if the practice of landings cannot be performed. There's a few more examples but you may get the idea.
One thing I should state, you can't let someone get away with charging one hour if you only do 45 minutes of briefing, this to me sounds like theft and does not give a good view of the FI in question.
My sincere opinion is that if you feel there is something wrong, talk to the chief above about it. If you can't handle doing that then talk to the customer service rep if there is one.
OR
If you speak directly to your F.I and he seems not to give a good and clear reason or you feel it's simply not enough- Swap instructors.
If I was in his shoes and didn't feel I could make you any better I'd definately suggest you go with someone else.
PLEASE remember it's YOUR MONEY!!!!
However if you have done 20 hours and not gone solo what is the reason?
If your instructor can't get there on time go elswhere.
Join Date: May 2008
Location: UK
Posts: 1,365
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Turns round a point in strong winds is actually part of the syllabus, usually coupled with low level navigation, so i wouldn't be too worried about that.
However, if you're doing that lesson before you've even been solo that is definitely cause for concern. I would say talking to the CFI at the school to ask why you haven't met solo standard yet and what you can work on would be a good idea.
Otherwise, ask to change instructor, or even change school. If they are consistently over charging, surely that's a legal matter for charging for a service which has not been provided. Definitely worth complaining about.
However, if you're doing that lesson before you've even been solo that is definitely cause for concern. I would say talking to the CFI at the school to ask why you haven't met solo standard yet and what you can work on would be a good idea.
Otherwise, ask to change instructor, or even change school. If they are consistently over charging, surely that's a legal matter for charging for a service which has not been provided. Definitely worth complaining about.
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Florida
Posts: 13
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Well this past week specifically made me want to bring this issue up. I signed up for 4 lessons, and each lesson I begged him to schedule a stage check for me. Every lesson he assured me we would do the check by this week. Its now the weekend and still no word on a stage check. The excuses he made were "you need more book knowledge" or "we still need to practice more touch n go's". I am nearing almost 23 hours with zero solo hours and its just plain depressing how much of a crook my FI is.
My radio calls are perfect according to my FI, he noted that I was one of the very few to pick up quickly in that area. My landings are far from perfect, but my instructor doesn't take over controls and help me flare. He'll usually verbally say flare more or hold as a guideline. But there hasn't been a landing where I put us in a dangerous situation where the FI needed to take full controls to avoid a crash or damage to the plane. He even told me last week, I am nailing my landings.
Not really sure if I can change instructors, we have three full times and all three are close friends from what I've seen. I figure I'd be in the same situation if I switched FIs.
As for switching schools, how would I go about resuming from the point I left off? Would I have to ask my current school to hand over my file if I decide to leave?
My radio calls are perfect according to my FI, he noted that I was one of the very few to pick up quickly in that area. My landings are far from perfect, but my instructor doesn't take over controls and help me flare. He'll usually verbally say flare more or hold as a guideline. But there hasn't been a landing where I put us in a dangerous situation where the FI needed to take full controls to avoid a crash or damage to the plane. He even told me last week, I am nailing my landings.
Not really sure if I can change instructors, we have three full times and all three are close friends from what I've seen. I figure I'd be in the same situation if I switched FIs.
As for switching schools, how would I go about resuming from the point I left off? Would I have to ask my current school to hand over my file if I decide to leave?
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: United States of Europe
Posts: 26
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Which cog gets the oil? The one that squeaks the most. Don't squeak, and everyone will think you're fine. Squeak lots, people will listen. Then, it's about the right type of squeak, and the right oil.
Or.
Talk to your instructor, if they are good at their job, they'll realise your position. They'll either take a different approach, or put you in with another instructor. Either way, they'll make it clear that they are problem solving. But, it wont always be that simple - Communication is the key.
Or.
Talk to your instructor, if they are good at their job, they'll realise your position. They'll either take a different approach, or put you in with another instructor. Either way, they'll make it clear that they are problem solving. But, it wont always be that simple - Communication is the key.
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Exeter
Age: 48
Posts: 64
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
which school are you at or which area are you ?
shorty,
I too am in Florida and have had to switch schools due to a problem with instructors, PM me if you like, I have found 2 that are really good and don't play these kind of games.
Stu
I too am in Florida and have had to switch schools due to a problem with instructors, PM me if you like, I have found 2 that are really good and don't play these kind of games.
Stu
He'll usually verbally say flare more or hold as a guideline.
Join Date: May 2008
Location: UK
Posts: 1,365
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Surely his instructor is a CFI
I'm not familiar with the FAA system or stage checks, but if the student is at a civilian flying school he is the customer, and if he is not happy with what is being provided he is well within his rights to question it.
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: EGYD
Posts: 1,073
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
My landings are far from perfect, but my instructor doesn't take over controls and help me flare.
Only one of you should be flying the aircraft.
Unless he is demonstrating the flare and you are following him through then only one of you should be with your hands on the control column.
Remember the instructor has to sign you off for an endorsement and it doesn't matter if you have a stage check - the person who does the stage check isn't going to sign you off they are.
Your instructor should be following a syllabus - ask to see it! (Although if doing a part 61 FAA PPL then there is no formal requirement for one - I would still ask for one)
21 hours isn't too bad either there are plenty of pilots who do way more than that to solo...
Regarding changing schools it can be difficult if your on a visa and not a US resident or citizen. If you provided more information then we could probably help out some more.
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Florida
Posts: 13
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I am a citizen of the US. I am completing a masters degree at the moment, so this PPL is purely for fun and to kill off some boredom during the week.
As for the hands on the column. I am the only one holding it all the way to the runway. Same goes for the rudder pedals. The only time he's ever taken over was when ATC told us to go-around. He wanted to expedite the maneveur.
But regardless, this "not being able to solo" is just one of multiple problems I am having with this instructor. He's late, he's always texting his girlfriend on the phone, he rarely gives me full attention unless we're doing ground, and he sometimes makes me go wait in the aircraft while he chats it up with other FIs or another potential customer. I am beyond upset with this FI and the school in general.
I'll reveal the school name in a few days, to spare other people in Florida from falling into this trap.
As for the hands on the column. I am the only one holding it all the way to the runway. Same goes for the rudder pedals. The only time he's ever taken over was when ATC told us to go-around. He wanted to expedite the maneveur.
But regardless, this "not being able to solo" is just one of multiple problems I am having with this instructor. He's late, he's always texting his girlfriend on the phone, he rarely gives me full attention unless we're doing ground, and he sometimes makes me go wait in the aircraft while he chats it up with other FIs or another potential customer. I am beyond upset with this FI and the school in general.
I'll reveal the school name in a few days, to spare other people in Florida from falling into this trap.
Shortypops, you are coming over (to me, at least) as somewhat indecisive and lacking in assertiveness. I think you should talk to your instructor rather than posting your troubles here, as we don't actually know how good you are at aircraft handling and decision making. You might consider that if you come over the same way to your instructor as you do to me, that this is what is slowing down your progress.
Or, of course, your instructor could be not a good match for you. It happens, people's personalities don't always mesh. Have you flown with anyone else? Perhaps you should get an independent opinion on your flying? Maybe the school is poor, or maybe you aren't ready to fly solo. Again, independent advice based on knowledge
Or, of course, your instructor could be not a good match for you. It happens, people's personalities don't always mesh. Have you flown with anyone else? Perhaps you should get an independent opinion on your flying? Maybe the school is poor, or maybe you aren't ready to fly solo. Again, independent advice based on knowledge
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: EGYD
Posts: 1,073
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Shortypops, you are coming over (to me, at least) as somewhat indecisive and lacking in assertiveness
The skill set you are aiming for in the cockpit is the one which on the ground is where you meet the CFI and resolve these issues with immediate effect.
The one who struggles more is the one who procrastinates and avoids such situations who generally speaking will struggle a little at flight training as they lack the problem solving skills which are an important part of flight training even at PPL level.
Join Date: Jun 1999
Location: Norwich, CT USA
Posts: 146
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Well its the Flight Instructors "John Hancock" on your Student Pilots Certificate and in your logbook. I solo students when they are ready and not once second before. Its a free country or was and you are perfectly free to find another Flight Instructor or School for that matter. Sounds more like a personalty issue to me. If you were my student going to a web sight rather and speaking to me about it, I would tell you its time for you to find another. You should be talking to him or her what ever the case maybe.
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Florida
Posts: 13
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Quick update if anyone cares. Switched schools about 10 days ago. The plane I fly now is the Flight Design CTLS. Literally took 3 lessons of getting used to the plane, mixed in some touch n go's and my new instructor signed me off for the solo. Quick, simple, and easy. First cross-country tomorrow afternoon as well. This is the school I was looking for.
If anyone would like the name of the old school or my new school, feel free to PM me and I will gladly provide the names.
If anyone would like the name of the old school or my new school, feel free to PM me and I will gladly provide the names.
Quick update if anyone cares. Switched schools about 10 days ago. The plane I fly now is the Flight Design CTLS. Literally took 3 lessons of getting used to the plane, mixed in some touch n go's and my new instructor signed me off for the solo. Quick, simple, and easy. First cross-country tomorrow afternoon as well. This is the school I was looking for.
If anyone would like the name of the old school or my new school, feel free to PM me and I will gladly provide the names.
If anyone would like the name of the old school or my new school, feel free to PM me and I will gladly provide the names.
I flew the CTSW the other day, thoroughly enjoyable and I think substantially the same aeroplane as your CTLS - I hope that you keep enjoying it
G
Moderator
Well done Shortypops,
Let me regale you with one of my many stories, which my have a tiny bit of relevence (though it sounds that you may have learned the same lesson recently)...
While waiting to do my solo cross country decades ago, I would ask my flying instructor if the weather was good enough. The answer was always, "no, it's not good enough". So I'd stay in the circuit, and rebook. One day, after a few circuits, in what seemed good weather, I asked him again... "no, it's not good enough". Then another instructor wispered in my ear: "check the weather yourself". So I did. It was reported and forecast as fine all over. I returned to my instructor moments later, and infomed him of my findings.... "Great, then you should go and fly your solo cross country then...", and I did. All he had wanted as for me to assert myself, within the scope of my evolving authority as PIC.
I understand that you cannot send yourself first solo, but you can do all things within your scope to set the stage for success. Perhaps your first instructor had a good reason for your not going solo, I have no way of knowing. There's no good reason for insulting you by being late, or chatting/texting on his phone while you're paying by the hour though.
It sounds like you're on the right track now.
... worries me just a little though...
The sky does not know if you're up "just to kill off boredom", or because you're taking aviation very serioulsy, and, it does not care. Those of us who have been doing this for a while will expect it to be evident that you are taking flying seriously, to enter our fraterinty and fly our planes. I admit, I trained for my PPLH because I was a little bored with fixed wing, but I had decades of taking it very seriously behind me. Though there are just plain fun flights, they're not all that way, and you must apply serious devotion to piloting every flight. Don't take it lightly.... Those of us who've been here a while don't...
Let me regale you with one of my many stories, which my have a tiny bit of relevence (though it sounds that you may have learned the same lesson recently)...
While waiting to do my solo cross country decades ago, I would ask my flying instructor if the weather was good enough. The answer was always, "no, it's not good enough". So I'd stay in the circuit, and rebook. One day, after a few circuits, in what seemed good weather, I asked him again... "no, it's not good enough". Then another instructor wispered in my ear: "check the weather yourself". So I did. It was reported and forecast as fine all over. I returned to my instructor moments later, and infomed him of my findings.... "Great, then you should go and fly your solo cross country then...", and I did. All he had wanted as for me to assert myself, within the scope of my evolving authority as PIC.
I understand that you cannot send yourself first solo, but you can do all things within your scope to set the stage for success. Perhaps your first instructor had a good reason for your not going solo, I have no way of knowing. There's no good reason for insulting you by being late, or chatting/texting on his phone while you're paying by the hour though.
It sounds like you're on the right track now.
I am completing a masters degree at the moment, so this PPL is purely for fun and to kill off some boredom during the week
The sky does not know if you're up "just to kill off boredom", or because you're taking aviation very serioulsy, and, it does not care. Those of us who have been doing this for a while will expect it to be evident that you are taking flying seriously, to enter our fraterinty and fly our planes. I admit, I trained for my PPLH because I was a little bored with fixed wing, but I had decades of taking it very seriously behind me. Though there are just plain fun flights, they're not all that way, and you must apply serious devotion to piloting every flight. Don't take it lightly.... Those of us who've been here a while don't...
