1999 UK ATPL(A) Exams: Theory credit still valid?

[covec]

Good evening, folks.

I converted the UK BCPL(A) to a JAR CPL SPA MEIR in 1999-2000, passing the old UK ATPL(A) exams, and Perf. A & E at the same time.

My IR has never lapsed beyond 4 years and I am a current FI(A).

I still have an MCC to do: my licence is a JAR CPL(A) with, or so I believe valid ATPL(A) Credit.

Are my old UK ATPL exam passes still valid or now worth squat?!!!

Regards

[Whopity]

From LASORS 2010

The holder of a valid JAR-FCL CPL(A)/IR with
JAR-FCL ATPL Theory credit will be credited
the JAR-FCL ATPL(A) Theoretical knowledge
examination for a period of 7 years from the last
validity date of the IR(A) entered in the CPL(A).

So you appear to qualify as the IR has not expired by more than 7 years.

[covec]

Hi Whopity - unfortunately it is the UK ATPLs that I passed - not the JAR ATPLs - I thought that the UK ones were acceptable.

In other words I am the holder of a valid JAR-FCL CPL(A)/IR with
UK ATPL Theory credit.

I could not get through to the CAA on the 'phone today and have emailed them but will probably write.

I have also PM'd Beagle.

Cheers, Whopity.

[FormationFlyer]

Im interested as Im in a similar situation - except I have a UK CPL/IR with UK ATPL exams and perf A&E....

With EASA looming Im looking at the best way to get to EASA CPL/IR with ATPL credit intact!

[covec]

Formationflyer - I have made a wee bit of progress re my situation in that I was in fact first issued with a JAR CPL(A)(R): the (R) denoting that I had to achieve certain criteria in order to be granted a "full" JAR CPL(A).

One criteria was to pass the JAR Exams. Another, the one I took as an FI(A) was to gain 700 hours TT.

Beagle & Whopity are answering my queries and I have pointed out your situation to them and to this Forum.

Good Luck, Mate.

[Whopity]

If you hold a valid JAA licence, it really doesn't matter which exams you passed. Essentially, you received a credit for your UK exams during the JAA transition period, which is the JAA ATPL credit referred to. Your JAA licence will be accepted as an EASA licence and continue as before.

If you hold a UK licence then you will have to meet the JAA conversion criteria to convert it to a JAA licence. I hold both, they issued one on the strength of the other.

[Cavallier]

I have the same licence JAA CPL (A) R and am in the process of upgrading to JAA ATPL by putting my overseas 744 rating on it with the old National exams. You are still rock solid as long as you don't let your IR lapse more than 7 years as they will drop down to CPL credits and you will loose your ATPLs.
I received this info from the CAA and it is also in LASORS section A. It is difficult to find it in the preamble but keep at it and you will get there.
Let me know how you get on.


The Cav

[Cavallier]

LASORS section D2.


"Pilots who have passed the UK ATPL(A) examinations, who hold a JAR-FCL CPL(A)(R) with Instrument Rating (obtained during the 36 months from the date of gaining a pass in the UK ATPL(A) theoretical knowledge examinations) and a valid type rating on a multi-pilot aeroplane will be required to meet the following requirements for the issue of a JAR-FCL ATPL (A):-

Achieve 1500 hours as pilot of aeroplanes, to include;
500 hours on multi-pilot aeroplanes,
250 hours PIC of which up to 150 hours may be PICUS,
200 hours cross country flight of which 100 hours may be as P2 or PICUS,
75 hours of instrument time of which not more than 30 hours may be instrument ground time,
not more than 100 hours may be in a flight simulator."



The key thing to remember is that you hold a valid JAA licence that was issued on the basis of the national exams. Part A of LASORS actually makes provisions for UK CPL and ATPL holders to convert to a JAA licence.

[FormationFlyer]

Yes. Now you see as an instructor/examiner I fall into a not so great area of not having any hours on multi-pilot aeroplanes.

[covec]

I never had a valid Type Rating BUT did have an IR gained within 36 months of the UK exams - and of course a JAR CPL(A)(R) which in time became a JAR CPL(A) with the Restriction being removed through experience.

[Cavallier]

I still think it is ok Covec.

[CAT3C AUTOLAND]

Be careful taking CAV's advice, he is a cowboy, he lets students fly in the LHR control zone solo with out clearance .

[Cavallier]

No mention of you entering an active runway in Liverpool without a clearance......................

[covec]

Small update for others in the same boat.

The UK CAA do not an answer to the question "will my UK National Exam Passes still be recognised by EASA?".

I have been advised to contact EASA direct for an answer to this.

Despite 2 emails I have had no response so have now copied UK MEPs in too.

I guess that formally writing is the way forward now as well as an MP Surgery visit.

Incidentally this all started because I was told by a UK Ground School that my UK National ATPL exam passes were "null & void" and that I would have to "do the entire ATPL Ground School again".

I may vote UKIP next time...........

[covec]

I have had a letter from Rt Hon George Lyon MEP who has written to the Aviation Commissioner Kallas putting the case for EASA recognition of UK National Exam passes indefinately.

In my response to the MEP I clearly put the fact that I fail utterly to see why I should redo the entire ATPL Groundschool due to legislative change.

Fingers crossed.

Aside from my own case perhaps others who are affected might want to ease their minds by contacting their own MEPs too?

(I have pointed out that I may well be worrying about nothing as I have kept an IR alive. However, I have had comments from some UK schools that my UK ATPL Credits are "null & void" under EASA hence this thread being started).

[covec]

Good afternoon, folks.

Here is the email that I received from EASA re the Thread Title. Good news.

I apologise if I am breaching any copyright in "re-transmitting" this email - in which case please delete!
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Thank you for your e-mail.

As it is stated in Article 4, paragraph 1. of Draft Opinion 04/2010 – Commission Regulation on Part-FCL (please see page 4 following the link: http://easa.europa.eu/ws_prod/r/doc/...20%28LW%29.pdf), national pilot licences, including any associated ratings, certificates, authorisations and/or qualifications, issued or recognised by a Member State in accordance with the JAA requirements and procedures before the entry into force of this Regulation, shall be deemed to have been issued in accordance with this Regulation.

This means that the UK CAA had been responsible for the acceptance of your national ATPL exams when they issued your JAR-FCL licence according to Appendix 1 to JAR-FCL 1.005.

Draft Commission Regulation on Part-FCL contains transition measures to ensure that JAR-FCL licences issued by Member States in accordance with JAR-FCL requirements will be automatically grandfathered.

Please note that the draft Opinion could be subject to further change as it passes through the European institutions for adoption.

Regarding the e-mail [email protected], there was a mistake in the word “europe”. The correct EASA's e-mail address is @easa.europA.eu.

Please do not hesitate to contact us should you have any other questions.

Yours sincerely

Zuzana KAPUSTOVÁ
---------------------------------------------------------------------

Hope this helps?

Thank you, Whopity & Cavallier - you were correct.

If there are any ATPL Groundschool guys out there - are you now happy that a "frozen" ATPL is valid whether the exams were UK or JAR?

[Whopity]

Which raises an interesting issue, according to Article 4 above, the CAA will have to convert UK ATPLs to EASA ATPLs!

[BillieBob]

the CAA will have to convert UK ATPLs to EASA ATPLs!

No, they won't. UK national ATPLs were not issued in accordance with the JAA requirements and procedures. Only licences issued after the UK's implementation of JAR-FCL will be deemed to have been issued in accordance with the EASA Regulation.

[Whopity]

But they were:

recognised by a Member State in accordance with the JAA requirements and procedures before the entry into force of this Regulation,

I think this could lead to an interesting legal debate!

[BillieBob]

....recognised by a Member State in accordance with the JAA requirements and procedures

If UK national licences had been recognised in accordance with JAA requirements and procedures, there would have been no need for separate sections in Schedule 7.