Cheap FI course
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Cheap FI course
Myself and some friends have recently gained f/atpls and expect to have airline jobs within 6 months or so. We would like to keep flying in these 6 months off so bearing in mind our poor financial situation could anybody recommend any cheap schools, possibly in Spain or the USA inwhich to get JAA instructor ratings?
I understand that some of these courses may not be of the highest quality and if that is the case we would welcome any warnings against places that appear "too good to be true".
Many Thanks for you replies
I understand that some of these courses may not be of the highest quality and if that is the case we would welcome any warnings against places that appear "too good to be true".
Many Thanks for you replies
So, you want to instruct so as to keep flying.
A cheap and 'not of the highest quality' course is OK by you, is it?
Well it might not be OK by your poor suffering students
Why not just hire an aircraft and fly at your own expense, not at the expense of some newcomer who expects and deserves a dedicated career professional, not some self serving cheapskate who thinks because he has just got ihs ATPL he is God's gift to aviation.
Poor financial situation? Oh dear how sad. Shelf filling at Tescos sounds about right to improve your situation.
A cheap and 'not of the highest quality' course is OK by you, is it?
Well it might not be OK by your poor suffering students
Why not just hire an aircraft and fly at your own expense, not at the expense of some newcomer who expects and deserves a dedicated career professional, not some self serving cheapskate who thinks because he has just got ihs ATPL he is God's gift to aviation.
Poor financial situation? Oh dear how sad. Shelf filling at Tescos sounds about right to improve your situation.
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Tiger Moth,
I find it difficult, as a professional aviator, adequately to express my contempt for you.
What a pitiful post. Be ashamed. You expect to have an airline job, do you?
Not if I'm interviewing and even the slightest wiff of your attitude comes through.
I find it difficult, as a professional aviator, adequately to express my contempt for you.
What a pitiful post. Be ashamed. You expect to have an airline job, do you?
Not if I'm interviewing and even the slightest wiff of your attitude comes through.
Dancing with the devil, going with the flow... it's all a game to me.
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Woah chaps! At least he's honest - many here aren't. Just because he doesn't fill his post with flowery waffle about a passion to instruct etc doesn't mean he can't and won't make a good instructor. All power to him I say - the above postings shout sour grapes to me but prove a valuable warning as to the attitudes of some people parading their hollier than thou attitudes in flight training.
The 'industry' pays peanuts, the safety standards and chances of getting cleaned up in a bang are higher than most jobs yet we are supposed to pretend that we're some keen spirited enthusiastic examples of humanity only in it for the benefit of those we teach? Sod off!
Back to the post in question - I would be very cautious of doing an FI course abroad as many FTO's here won't look at you. If you were already an airline pilot with a few thousand hours then this would not matter so much. Your licence alone is not going to open doors in the instructing world. I flew with a newly minted CPL/IR fATPL holder who so far has come closest to ending my day. You are still extremely inexperienced at flying light aircraft and your training has all been geared for flying the bigger stuff so think hard about your plan.
As for price - it's the same for any commodity or service - you get what you paid for. Personally, I decided to pay an above average fee for my FIC with a very respected instructor who had a history of training some of the best FI's in the country, both civilian and military. I wanted to be confident of being as good an instructor as I could be.
As one of the above posters has already said, you'd be better off just flying for fun on your PPL instead of looking at instructing simply as a way of keeping your hand in.
VFE.
The 'industry' pays peanuts, the safety standards and chances of getting cleaned up in a bang are higher than most jobs yet we are supposed to pretend that we're some keen spirited enthusiastic examples of humanity only in it for the benefit of those we teach? Sod off!
Back to the post in question - I would be very cautious of doing an FI course abroad as many FTO's here won't look at you. If you were already an airline pilot with a few thousand hours then this would not matter so much. Your licence alone is not going to open doors in the instructing world. I flew with a newly minted CPL/IR fATPL holder who so far has come closest to ending my day. You are still extremely inexperienced at flying light aircraft and your training has all been geared for flying the bigger stuff so think hard about your plan.
As for price - it's the same for any commodity or service - you get what you paid for. Personally, I decided to pay an above average fee for my FIC with a very respected instructor who had a history of training some of the best FI's in the country, both civilian and military. I wanted to be confident of being as good an instructor as I could be.
As one of the above posters has already said, you'd be better off just flying for fun on your PPL instead of looking at instructing simply as a way of keeping your hand in.
VFE.
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If you would have said that you are happy to have made it so far, and want to pass your passion to other young people to experience what you've had, OK.
If you would have said that you feel lacking some valid experience and wanted to progress in the world of aviation by this traject, OK.
But, as long as you think instructing is " some time off " I would recommend to place your little money that you have got left elsewhere.
BTW, is this how you were treated in your FTO, instructed by people more interested in any other kind of ops than what you have been paying for ?
And for any advice on your topic, you will always get what you pay for, and the joy of having paid less, will be forgotten when the sorrow of poor quality remains....
If you would have said that you feel lacking some valid experience and wanted to progress in the world of aviation by this traject, OK.
But, as long as you think instructing is " some time off " I would recommend to place your little money that you have got left elsewhere.
BTW, is this how you were treated in your FTO, instructed by people more interested in any other kind of ops than what you have been paying for ?
And for any advice on your topic, you will always get what you pay for, and the joy of having paid less, will be forgotten when the sorrow of poor quality remains....
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tiger moth, congrats on your fatpl;s and good luck in your career. In madrid aerofan is cheap. aerodynamics in malaga. strong euro is making it less and less attractive. I'm sure that some of the more helpful and less toxic posters can advise re the US.
Whatever happened to that greenpeace ship, the rainbow warrior????
Whatever happened to that greenpeace ship, the rainbow warrior????
Last edited by eph6; 27th May 2008 at 11:10.
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it would be a lot wiser
To go around flight schools asking if they need instructors and if they do, can they train you to that level.
It's often better because you'll both get used to the place *from the air* and you'll learn at the same time.
At the moment there's a stink load of places needing FI's. Scotland, UK, Spain.
I believe Jerez might be worth while but would not recommend going aerofan.
1/60
It's often better because you'll both get used to the place *from the air* and you'll learn at the same time.
At the moment there's a stink load of places needing FI's. Scotland, UK, Spain.
I believe Jerez might be worth while but would not recommend going aerofan.
1/60
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Rather than spending a couple of months training for the FI(r) and about Ģ7000 and then four months teaching students, why dont you pool your money and put in some multi time in the US and keep busy that way.
You might not even get to do that much teaching of students because by the time you finished the FI course, the autumn would be on us and you might only literally get a couple of hours in before you are off to your airline jobs.
It seems an awful lot of money to spend for so little in return.
You might not even get to do that much teaching of students because by the time you finished the FI course, the autumn would be on us and you might only literally get a couple of hours in before you are off to your airline jobs.
It seems an awful lot of money to spend for so little in return.
Ramasseur des pommes
Tiger_Moth,
I was in a very similar situation to yourself. My airline selection happened during my FI course, and just having got the FI(R), was promptly put in a holding pool for six months. I continued working in a shop and instructing at the weekend. Between August 06 and February 07, I amassed the grand total of 69:20 instructing, including less than seven hours in December!
Doing the rating was great *you learn an awful lot and it is very different from the whole fATPL route. It's very rewarding. Prior to becoming a pilot, I was involved in training adults to exacting standards, so the FIC was always part of my plan. I just never expected to be in a hold pool so quickly.
The downside to all this is that any school who takes you on as an Instructor knowing you only have a few months of availability will generally only give you trial lessons and the odd one-off student. Luckily, the school who trained me offered a job. Also, it's likely that you won't become Unrestricted: I never got to send anyone off solo, so feel that the rating hasn't been fully used. My airline doesn't allow us to instruct as it would contribute towards our 900 hour limit, and being an FI(R) means that you can't even do private work "on the side". Of course, nothing is wasted, and I could always revalidate and go back to instructing, but life gets in the way of your plans, and it's just not possible at the moment.
There is a time factor as well: it's not just the training for the course, but also finding an examiner who can test you. In this UK, you should allow at least two months for the course and test.
Before you take the plunge and go head-first into a course, consider your motives. If you really want to learn how to impart your passion for flying and train people to be safe and confident pilots, then go for it. As an exercise in keeping flying skills going, it's not hugely useful regarding airline flying; flying an Airbus is very different from flying VFR in a PA28.
I was in a very similar situation to yourself. My airline selection happened during my FI course, and just having got the FI(R), was promptly put in a holding pool for six months. I continued working in a shop and instructing at the weekend. Between August 06 and February 07, I amassed the grand total of 69:20 instructing, including less than seven hours in December!
Doing the rating was great *you learn an awful lot and it is very different from the whole fATPL route. It's very rewarding. Prior to becoming a pilot, I was involved in training adults to exacting standards, so the FIC was always part of my plan. I just never expected to be in a hold pool so quickly.
The downside to all this is that any school who takes you on as an Instructor knowing you only have a few months of availability will generally only give you trial lessons and the odd one-off student. Luckily, the school who trained me offered a job. Also, it's likely that you won't become Unrestricted: I never got to send anyone off solo, so feel that the rating hasn't been fully used. My airline doesn't allow us to instruct as it would contribute towards our 900 hour limit, and being an FI(R) means that you can't even do private work "on the side". Of course, nothing is wasted, and I could always revalidate and go back to instructing, but life gets in the way of your plans, and it's just not possible at the moment.
There is a time factor as well: it's not just the training for the course, but also finding an examiner who can test you. In this UK, you should allow at least two months for the course and test.
Before you take the plunge and go head-first into a course, consider your motives. If you really want to learn how to impart your passion for flying and train people to be safe and confident pilots, then go for it. As an exercise in keeping flying skills going, it's not hugely useful regarding airline flying; flying an Airbus is very different from flying VFR in a PA28.
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To those of you who replied with some useful advice, thankyou.
Piper Classique, if you are going to have a go at me at least have the decency to read my post properly. A "not of the highest quality" course is NOT ok by me, that is precisely why I asked to be warned against such courses.
Frontlefthamster, I don't understand your contempt, I have done nothing wrong. I understand I am only a f/atpl and I have no illusions about being "gods gift to aviation". What makes you think I do!?!
Perhaps it is partly my fault you got this impression as I wasn't clear in my post about my motivations, but I don't see why you guys just assumed!
It has always been my plan to gain an FI rating because I would love to pass on what I've learned and share my passion with others. I would not be doing it for the hours or to keep "my hand in" because I don't need the hours and the experience would not be relevant to airline flying anyway. As I have a wait for a job it seems logical to consider going about getting the rating now. I'm not doing it to build hours at some poor guys expense: I'm doing it because it's what I love and the fact that I'm considering spending all my remaining money to get one I would have thought would indicate that I am doing it because I have a passion for it.
I do not see anything wrong with what I posted, I for one think I will make a humble and capable instructor, be it soon or some years down the line. I know the difference that a good instructor can make from my own, admittedly limited experience, and will strive to be a competent professional instructor myself who takes a real interest in their students.
It never ceases to amaze me the nonsense you get on these forums sometimes. How dare you.
Piper Classique, if you are going to have a go at me at least have the decency to read my post properly. A "not of the highest quality" course is NOT ok by me, that is precisely why I asked to be warned against such courses.
Frontlefthamster, I don't understand your contempt, I have done nothing wrong. I understand I am only a f/atpl and I have no illusions about being "gods gift to aviation". What makes you think I do!?!
Perhaps it is partly my fault you got this impression as I wasn't clear in my post about my motivations, but I don't see why you guys just assumed!
It has always been my plan to gain an FI rating because I would love to pass on what I've learned and share my passion with others. I would not be doing it for the hours or to keep "my hand in" because I don't need the hours and the experience would not be relevant to airline flying anyway. As I have a wait for a job it seems logical to consider going about getting the rating now. I'm not doing it to build hours at some poor guys expense: I'm doing it because it's what I love and the fact that I'm considering spending all my remaining money to get one I would have thought would indicate that I am doing it because I have a passion for it.
I do not see anything wrong with what I posted, I for one think I will make a humble and capable instructor, be it soon or some years down the line. I know the difference that a good instructor can make from my own, admittedly limited experience, and will strive to be a competent professional instructor myself who takes a real interest in their students.
It never ceases to amaze me the nonsense you get on these forums sometimes. How dare you.
Last edited by Tiger_ Moth; 30th May 2008 at 23:59. Reason: typo
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never ceases to amaze me the nonsense you get on these forums sometimes
Im in a similar situation to you and your freinds, and am currently doing an FIC along with a few others.
All of us on the course have fATPLs, would we have all that if we wanted to be instructors, no.
Ultimately we all want multicrew jobs, but as you know this dont happen the day after MCC ends!
So whats your options sit on your arse and wait,like that works!! or as you said find a reasonable FIC and instruct, and yes you are building hours, nothing wrong with that, its a proven route, an apprenticeship, first step on the ladder whatever you want to call it.
I remember doing my PPL, all my instructors could not wait to get to airlines, didnt effect there teaching in anyway, and it was inspirational to me as a wet behind the ears PPL student to see these guys moving on and getting the elusive 1st job.
Credit to all fATPLs doing the FI thing, it shows commitment to aviation and a willing to progress forward, instead as I said earlier sitting on your butt waiting for the phone to ring.
Its a flying job,your sharpening your own skills, its good experience, you meet some great people from airline skippers to the trial lesson victims!
Best of luck Tiger Moth and friends, your not the only ones!
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two people I know went to this FTO in Czech republic
they were very satisfied by the service and the pricing
http://www.f-air.cz/leteckaskola/kva...tora-fi-a.aspx
Just hope that the moderator allows to post the link.
they were very satisfied by the service and the pricing
http://www.f-air.cz/leteckaskola/kva...tora-fi-a.aspx
Just hope that the moderator allows to post the link.
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Tiger Moth:
It is easy to dismiss FI flying as having no link to airline flying. I probably thought along the same lines when I was instructing full time. However I have been in the airline world for nearly 5 years and my FI experience has proven to be a fantastic asset since I am now a line trainer and my FI experience enabled me to get involved in training within my company. I have kept my FI rating current and still instruct and still enjoy it. I was told a few years ago to keep my FI rating current which I thought was daft... now I see the sense in what I was being told!
I would not be doing it for the hours or to keep "my hand in" because I don't need the hours and the experience would not be relevant to airline flying anyway.
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Aerofan
Check Aerofan in LECU, Madrid, i got my FI rating there a while ago and was satisfied with the price and what i got for it.
They do english courses.
I hope you will enjoy instructing, if you donīt ,just stop doing it.
Good luck
They do english courses.
I hope you will enjoy instructing, if you donīt ,just stop doing it.
Good luck
Perhaps it is partly my fault you got this impression as I wasn't clear in my post about my motivations, but I don't see why you guys just assumed!
You also said
I do not see anything wrong with what I posted, I for one think I will make a humble and capable instructor
It has always been my plan to gain an FI rating because I would love to pass on what I've learned and share my passion with others.
