Pilotless Commercial Aircraft
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Pilotless Commercial Aircraft
Hey guys & girls,
How long do you think it will be until we see pilotless commercial aircraft flying around our skies ?
Before you say it will never happen may i ask you to please get your head out of the clouds. Did you watch the Jetsons cartoons on TV when you were a kid & laugh & think that all of it would never happen.
Yes well it has all happened, electric footpaths, video conference link up, flying cars & more. It can't be to long now before we see pilotless commercial aircraft flying around our skies just like we now see driverless trains & driverless mining trucks & soon to be driverless cars on our roads.
I belive it will be within the next 5-10 years we will see pilotless commercial aircraft transition into our skies.
I didnt want to post this on the pilots forum as i think the share price of Kleenex tissues would go through the roof & thats not due to tears of joy.
No pilots, no worries i say.
Chock Chucker.
How long do you think it will be until we see pilotless commercial aircraft flying around our skies ?
Before you say it will never happen may i ask you to please get your head out of the clouds. Did you watch the Jetsons cartoons on TV when you were a kid & laugh & think that all of it would never happen.
Yes well it has all happened, electric footpaths, video conference link up, flying cars & more. It can't be to long now before we see pilotless commercial aircraft flying around our skies just like we now see driverless trains & driverless mining trucks & soon to be driverless cars on our roads.
I belive it will be within the next 5-10 years we will see pilotless commercial aircraft transition into our skies.
I didnt want to post this on the pilots forum as i think the share price of Kleenex tissues would go through the roof & thats not due to tears of joy.
No pilots, no worries i say.
Chock Chucker.
Last edited by Chock Chucker; 22nd Apr 2013 at 06:21.
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Problem is the public opinion on this matter as passengers won't feel satisfied and safe in an aeroplane with an empty cockpit, Never the less the machine is much safer than humans as many accidents that took place were due to pilot errors, People however will never accept that and will always favour seeing someone in the cockpit.
I believe the next generation aircraft will continue to have pilots but thier work will be significantly reduced to the point of solely observing what the machine is doing.
I believe the next generation aircraft will continue to have pilots but thier work will be significantly reduced to the point of solely observing what the machine is doing.
Last edited by flame_bringer; 26th Apr 2013 at 02:56.
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Maybe you could ask the same question to our global militaries.
Why would they bother to send in unmanned drones to do the spying/fighting in war zones when in old times pilot driven fighters were sent in.
I suppose also the airlines are always looking at ways to save money & i saw a time when B747 Classics were phazed out where i worked & that meant that the Flight Engineers on the B747 classic were no longer needed. Some were let go by the company while others were upskilled into First officers positions on B747-400's
The other reason i bother is that i would prefer to fly in a pilotless aircraft to greatly reduce the "human error factor" yes pilots have been known to make mistakes & sometimes its very costly both in lives & financially.
Chock Chucker
Why would they bother to send in unmanned drones to do the spying/fighting in war zones when in old times pilot driven fighters were sent in.
I suppose also the airlines are always looking at ways to save money & i saw a time when B747 Classics were phazed out where i worked & that meant that the Flight Engineers on the B747 classic were no longer needed. Some were let go by the company while others were upskilled into First officers positions on B747-400's
The other reason i bother is that i would prefer to fly in a pilotless aircraft to greatly reduce the "human error factor" yes pilots have been known to make mistakes & sometimes its very costly both in lives & financially.
Chock Chucker
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Pilotless Commercial Aircraft
See if it'll gain acceptance with pax-carrying ships. At least if the engine stops, the boat still floats.
Need to change legislation, too, as to who carries the can...
Need to change legislation, too, as to who carries the can...
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Only problem with PAX carrying ships is possibly piracy. Crew would need to be onboard to shoot back at the Somalian pirates.
I suppose its already gained acceptance with the public with cars that can reverse parallel park & drive by them selves & trains that take people from 1 location to another with no driver.
The mining trucks & trains haul deposits out of the mines all running driverless on GPS co-ordinates.
Who knows while i am typing this email a pilotless military drone may be flying straight over my house on ruite to another location & controlled by a human or computer controller in another country.
While all of this is going on my new car i have just purchased is being built in the factory (majority by robots & machines) & the operation i will soon need to have in hospital will be preformed by a robot or mechanical arm.
As all of this goes on i can also withdraw money from a hole in the wall (ATM) 24 hours a day 7 days a week with no bank chashier required.
& the best part of it is if i was to say to people 30 year ago this is how life will be today they would all laugh in my face & tell me i'm crazy & it will never happen.
Chock Chucker
I suppose its already gained acceptance with the public with cars that can reverse parallel park & drive by them selves & trains that take people from 1 location to another with no driver.
The mining trucks & trains haul deposits out of the mines all running driverless on GPS co-ordinates.
Who knows while i am typing this email a pilotless military drone may be flying straight over my house on ruite to another location & controlled by a human or computer controller in another country.
While all of this is going on my new car i have just purchased is being built in the factory (majority by robots & machines) & the operation i will soon need to have in hospital will be preformed by a robot or mechanical arm.
As all of this goes on i can also withdraw money from a hole in the wall (ATM) 24 hours a day 7 days a week with no bank chashier required.
& the best part of it is if i was to say to people 30 year ago this is how life will be today they would all laugh in my face & tell me i'm crazy & it will never happen.
Chock Chucker
Last edited by Chock Chucker; 24th Apr 2013 at 04:27.
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There's no way in this wide world I would sit in 1A without a grey haired gentleman with 4 bars on his shoulders and 30000 hours of experience smiling* back down the cabin at me. Ever. Systems fail, simple as that.
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Hempy, thankyou for your input however soon enough you will not be able to fly as their will be no pilot & this will be a reality. I would be pretty worried if an old grey haired 4 bars pilot were to be looking backwards down the cabin at me smiling especially if he were to be flying right into a mountain or building or even the ground.
It would be worring enough if a pilot were to be riding a push bike forward while looking backwards & smiling at the same time. I dont know of any pilots that can multi task.
With all the automation going on around us i dont think it will take to long for the general public to accept that this is the way of the future even when flying on an aircraft.
Just another note, Pilots fail a lot more often than systems & we dont need statistics to prove that one.
In this day & age their are so many fail safe redundant systems installed on aircraft that it makes sense to have pilotless aircraft to greatly reduce the human error factor.
Dont forget the aircraft will be pilotless however it can still be operated & commanded from ground via a control centre.
Chock Chucker.
It would be worring enough if a pilot were to be riding a push bike forward while looking backwards & smiling at the same time. I dont know of any pilots that can multi task.
With all the automation going on around us i dont think it will take to long for the general public to accept that this is the way of the future even when flying on an aircraft.
Just another note, Pilots fail a lot more often than systems & we dont need statistics to prove that one.
In this day & age their are so many fail safe redundant systems installed on aircraft that it makes sense to have pilotless aircraft to greatly reduce the human error factor.
Dont forget the aircraft will be pilotless however it can still be operated & commanded from ground via a control centre.
Chock Chucker.
Last edited by Chock Chucker; 22nd Apr 2013 at 13:39.
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Pilotless Commercial Aircraft
It is true that there were accidents due to human error but lets not forget how many times the system failed and the pilots saved the aircraft and the human lives.
I believe that in the near future there will be aircrafts that will be able to fly without input from a pilot but there will be at least one pilot in the cockpit monitoring and ready to take control if the system fails.
I believe that in the near future there will be aircrafts that will be able to fly without input from a pilot but there will be at least one pilot in the cockpit monitoring and ready to take control if the system fails.
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For sure you are right about the human factor.
However, maybe the fact you never hear about a failed system is because of the two smiling pilots in the cockpit being able to control and decide.
Also, don't forget about weather conditions, aircraft type and onboard systems. Sure, you can automatize as much as possible, but weather will still be unpredictable. And the weather radar also doesn't always shows you the truth.
Then, the more computers you put in there, the more computers can fail. And if you're the lucky one to have, for example, and electrical fire, or a short circuit.. then who takes over controls, or decides what to do? Who's there to think outside the box?
I would say there are many things a computer can do "much better", however at a cost (pilot's concentration, skills) and to a certain limit (environment, corsschecking, outside the box thinking, etc).
So in the end, I surely hope (and don't expect) massive public transportation in pilotless aircraft.
Cheers,-
However, maybe the fact you never hear about a failed system is because of the two smiling pilots in the cockpit being able to control and decide.
Also, don't forget about weather conditions, aircraft type and onboard systems. Sure, you can automatize as much as possible, but weather will still be unpredictable. And the weather radar also doesn't always shows you the truth.
Then, the more computers you put in there, the more computers can fail. And if you're the lucky one to have, for example, and electrical fire, or a short circuit.. then who takes over controls, or decides what to do? Who's there to think outside the box?
I would say there are many things a computer can do "much better", however at a cost (pilot's concentration, skills) and to a certain limit (environment, corsschecking, outside the box thinking, etc).
So in the end, I surely hope (and don't expect) massive public transportation in pilotless aircraft.
Cheers,-
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Thanks for your inputs & i dont mean to be rude but i think you guys are really old fashion in your thoughts.
Their is no reason why a pilot could not work in a ground control terminal controlling & monitoring the aircraft that is in flight if required.
Fires on board & failed systems can be controlled & rectified form a control station on ground. Aircraft are fitted with fire detect systems & can discharge automatically at the slightest wif of smoke or fire, way before a pilot could detect.
Failed systems, well their are so many redundant systems that if 1 fails then 2 or 3 will automatically take over. Weather & weather radars will get better overtime & this will be no worries at all either.
i'm just going down to my local radio controlled aircraft club to fly my radio controlled aircraft. Gee their is no pilot in my radio controlled aircraft. OMG Where all going to die!
No pilots in all those pilotless drones flying around also. OMG once again, Gee where all going to die!
If a bank staff member had told you guys 40 year ago that in the future you would be able to get cash out of a hole in the wall called an (ATM) with no cashier 24 hours a day 7 days a week you would have laughed at the bank staff member & told them they were crazy & it would never happen. No way, never ever ever.
Chock Chucker
Their is no reason why a pilot could not work in a ground control terminal controlling & monitoring the aircraft that is in flight if required.
Fires on board & failed systems can be controlled & rectified form a control station on ground. Aircraft are fitted with fire detect systems & can discharge automatically at the slightest wif of smoke or fire, way before a pilot could detect.
Failed systems, well their are so many redundant systems that if 1 fails then 2 or 3 will automatically take over. Weather & weather radars will get better overtime & this will be no worries at all either.
i'm just going down to my local radio controlled aircraft club to fly my radio controlled aircraft. Gee their is no pilot in my radio controlled aircraft. OMG Where all going to die!
No pilots in all those pilotless drones flying around also. OMG once again, Gee where all going to die!
If a bank staff member had told you guys 40 year ago that in the future you would be able to get cash out of a hole in the wall called an (ATM) with no cashier 24 hours a day 7 days a week you would have laughed at the bank staff member & told them they were crazy & it would never happen. No way, never ever ever.
Chock Chucker
Last edited by Chock Chucker; 22nd Apr 2013 at 14:08.
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I run various courses related to aviation, including 'fear of flying' seminars. This is something that often comes up in discussion and I have yet to have even one person who says they would prefer to be on a pilotless aircraft. I fear that whilst there is some obvious merit to the idea, public opinion means it's dead in the water.
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Please, Never say never.
The airlines are always looking for ways to cut cost & save money & the aircraft manafacturers are on the move in this direction of pilotless drones & the like. Its only a matter of time.
I too am scared of flying & i am a Licensed Aircraft Engineer, i see the errors that pilots make on a daily basis & i personally would feel more comfortable with pilotless aircraft.
Think of 911, if the aircraft were pilotless & on a set GPS tracking controlled only by a ground station then the likely hood of the aircraft being overrun & controlled by terrorist + flown into buildings is next to nil.
Maybe you would like to take back that scenario to you fear of flying school.
Chock Chucker.
The airlines are always looking for ways to cut cost & save money & the aircraft manafacturers are on the move in this direction of pilotless drones & the like. Its only a matter of time.
I too am scared of flying & i am a Licensed Aircraft Engineer, i see the errors that pilots make on a daily basis & i personally would feel more comfortable with pilotless aircraft.
Think of 911, if the aircraft were pilotless & on a set GPS tracking controlled only by a ground station then the likely hood of the aircraft being overrun & controlled by terrorist + flown into buildings is next to nil.
Maybe you would like to take back that scenario to you fear of flying school.
Chock Chucker.
Last edited by Chock Chucker; 22nd Apr 2013 at 14:10.
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Cock Chucker,
Great comparison between RC aircraft and the real thing.
Though, if you suggest to pilot them from the ground, why not just put them in there?
Just to take the example of a fire, you'd have to have fire detecting/suppressing systems in every part of the aircraft.
Or shall we put an "emergency stop button" on the seats? Also handy in case of a medical emergency.
But then we'd have to hire someone to make sure nobody uses the button without reason.
Also, not all aircraft have autoland. Not all airports are fully equiped.
If you'd rely on automation, you will have to ignore a great amount of airports that would be suitable in case of emergency.
Think outside the box.
And what about airport facility degradations? Or false glide slope interceptions, for that matter?
Even in the trains, there is always a way to control and monitor. Just what we do.
Besides, taking the cockpit off the aircraft isn't really aerodynamic
Great comparison between RC aircraft and the real thing.
Though, if you suggest to pilot them from the ground, why not just put them in there?
Just to take the example of a fire, you'd have to have fire detecting/suppressing systems in every part of the aircraft.
Or shall we put an "emergency stop button" on the seats? Also handy in case of a medical emergency.
But then we'd have to hire someone to make sure nobody uses the button without reason.
Also, not all aircraft have autoland. Not all airports are fully equiped.
If you'd rely on automation, you will have to ignore a great amount of airports that would be suitable in case of emergency.
Think outside the box.
And what about airport facility degradations? Or false glide slope interceptions, for that matter?
Even in the trains, there is always a way to control and monitor. Just what we do.
Besides, taking the cockpit off the aircraft isn't really aerodynamic
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I am thinking outside the box & a lot of my future visulisation has stemmed from watching the Jetsons cartoons on TV as a kid.
Yep i laughed at the Jetsons back then & thought that it was very futuristic but most probably would never happen, well gee i was wrong along with many others.
I'm a Licensed Aircraft Engineer by trade & have also witnessed the rapid automation that has swept into the aviation industry in the past 5-10 years or so. Self service checkin is just one of them.
It will be incredible to see the further automation in the aviation industry in the comming 5-10 years time with all airlines looking at ways to reduce their staffing numbers & running cost.
Cabin crew numbers are already on the decline on new modern aircraft that have self service food & drink facilities for passengers.
20 year ago if someone told you that in new aircraft in the future would be bigger & their would be less cabin crew & you would have to get up & get your own food & drink you would have laughed & said they are crazy & it would never happen. Never ever ever.
Chock Chucker
Yep i laughed at the Jetsons back then & thought that it was very futuristic but most probably would never happen, well gee i was wrong along with many others.
I'm a Licensed Aircraft Engineer by trade & have also witnessed the rapid automation that has swept into the aviation industry in the past 5-10 years or so. Self service checkin is just one of them.
It will be incredible to see the further automation in the aviation industry in the comming 5-10 years time with all airlines looking at ways to reduce their staffing numbers & running cost.
Cabin crew numbers are already on the decline on new modern aircraft that have self service food & drink facilities for passengers.
20 year ago if someone told you that in new aircraft in the future would be bigger & their would be less cabin crew & you would have to get up & get your own food & drink you would have laughed & said they are crazy & it would never happen. Never ever ever.
Chock Chucker
Last edited by Chock Chucker; 22nd Apr 2013 at 14:30.
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Their is a simple answer to your question Contact Approach,
The people will go on welfair once everything is done for them, just like has been happening for a long time now.
Its called being made redundant, a nice way of saying your not needed anymore so go away.
It will only be a matter of time before pilotless commercial aircraft are out their & more pilots are made redundant.
I cant wait to see the airlines orders for the first pilotless commercial aircraft. Numbers will be through the roof.
Chock Chucker.
The people will go on welfair once everything is done for them, just like has been happening for a long time now.
Its called being made redundant, a nice way of saying your not needed anymore so go away.
It will only be a matter of time before pilotless commercial aircraft are out their & more pilots are made redundant.
I cant wait to see the airlines orders for the first pilotless commercial aircraft. Numbers will be through the roof.
Chock Chucker.
Last edited by Chock Chucker; 24th Apr 2013 at 04:36.
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Let's say your aircraft is on your 'set GPS track' and the aircraft is being controlled via a control centre on the ground somewhere. Regarding 911, which is easier? Gaining access to a Flight Deck in-flight or gaining access to the control centre on the ground? Which is more deadly?
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Ground control centres access would only be granted to authorised employees, just like the cockpit access is only granted to pilots.
Make it all safe & secure & only authorised access allowed + to change aircraft GPS course would normally require cross checking & authorisation from more that one party or employee & possibly by 2 independant ground control centres.
Just like when you take out a large sum of money at a bank you need authorisation & checking / cross checking by multiple back staff & possibly the bank manager.
Checks & balances.
Chock Chucker.
Make it all safe & secure & only authorised access allowed + to change aircraft GPS course would normally require cross checking & authorisation from more that one party or employee & possibly by 2 independant ground control centres.
Just like when you take out a large sum of money at a bank you need authorisation & checking / cross checking by multiple back staff & possibly the bank manager.
Checks & balances.
Chock Chucker.
Last edited by Chock Chucker; 22nd Apr 2013 at 14:38.
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So what happens when the 'set GPS course' routes an aircraft straight into a storm, or the aircraft needs re-routing for spacing, or diversion, or medical emergency, or for collision avoidance? The cross checking is a fairly time-consuming process, as well as un-resourseful. In this circumstance you have more than two persons controlling one aircraft simultaneously, what have we learn't from that in the past? Disregarding the obligations to other aircraft under their individual responsibility. It's just not going to work, is it?
Last edited by Contact Approach; 22nd Apr 2013 at 15:09.