Go Back  PPRuNe Forums > Misc. Forums > Computer/Internet Issues & Troubleshooting
Reload this Page >

Disaster after putting an SSD into my Lenovo

Computer/Internet Issues & Troubleshooting Anyone with questions about the terribly complex world of computers or the internet should try here. NOT FOR REPORTING ISSUES WITH PPRuNe FORUMS! Please use the subforum "PPRuNe Problems or Queries."

Disaster after putting an SSD into my Lenovo

Old 26th Oct 2016, 00:00
  #1 (permalink)  
Psychophysiological entity
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Tweet Rob_Benham Famous author. Well, slightly famous.
Age: 80
Posts: 4,706
Disaster after putting an SSD into my Lenovo

The main question: is there any reason I can't put an SSD boot drive into a newish Lenovo PC? i5 quad which came with W8.1

Some weeks ago it was seamlessly upgraded to W10 after partitioning the 2TB drive. Lots of updates.

This evening, I put an SSD in as the only drive. The PC could not see an OS despite there being a working W10 on there. Various tries with the BIOS set to auto. Nothing.

(I've migrated a drive with OS several times with no problems. One time MS had to Authenticate - but they all settled onto the new hardware and worked. Tonight I kind of feel Lenovo might be picky about the change. The BIOS is certainly not much like the old days.)

Sadly, I then tried to put the SSD in as the second physical drive. That's when things went wrong. Won't work with old drive now.

I then removed SSD of course but found it still won't go. I'm now deep into Resetting this PC as quicker Windows fixes said they'd worked - but didn't. Sad, it was going so well. Just wanted that front end that was fast and in effect, 'disposable' for quick repairs.

The irony. It didn't need repairing! The whole darn thing might become disposable now and the only use it's had since opening the box is loading Firefox and the usual things. Effectively, brand new, though it was in the box for just over a year.

Anyway, obviously the 2TB drive is being used to do the fixing, but is there a reason I can't put the SSD in as the front end? A fast 230gig with 2 TB mass storage would last me for the rest of this lifetime.

Confessions. The SSD OS is legal, or was. Never used and the machine scrapped. I'd hoped worst scenario was calling MS. However, I've just realised it's a Pro version which may or may not be an issue. After all, it's valid software but the machine was sold with 'Home'.

The big issue is, One does not own W10 but you are allowed three configuration changes. I'm quoting a well respected dealer with many years of experience. The PC is one of those with no Key on the hologram.

Frankly, One is not sure about anything anymore.


.
.

Last edited by Loose rivets; 26th Oct 2016 at 00:24.
Loose rivets is offline  
Old 26th Oct 2016, 00:34
  #2 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Norfolk
Age: 63
Posts: 3
You have come up against one of Microsoft's clever ploys to prevent the spread of pirated or copied versions of its software across multiple computers. When the operating system is first installed it takes an inventory of all the computer sub systems. If more than one or two minor hardware changes are detected against the original installation configuration, it stops working and you need to go out and buy a new legitimate copy of the software, even though you have a technically working version and you are not trying to defraud them out of anything. It is all explained in excrutiating detail, in very small print, somewhere in the middle of the thousand pages or so of the end user licence agreement. Yeah, the one you had to tick the box to agree to before you had the chance to read it and before the computer would even start up out of the box.

Change of hard disk - new software required
Change of motherboard - new software required
Change of video card - possibly new software required
Change of network adapter - possibly new software required
Change of audio card - probably okay
Increasing memory - probably okay
Change from 32 bit to 64 bit addressing - new software required

You can't win!
G0ULI is offline  
Old 26th Oct 2016, 00:50
  #3 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: The Smaller Antipode
Age: 85
Posts: 14
I blame Bill Gates.
ExSp33db1rd is offline  
Old 26th Oct 2016, 01:09
  #4 (permalink)  
Psychophysiological entity
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Tweet Rob_Benham Famous author. Well, slightly famous.
Age: 80
Posts: 4,706
Do you recall what happens if we buy a full copy? i.e., will it still be torn from us if things fail - or does that only happen when it's an OEM version?

It is possible my conversation with that dealer was in the W7 era. Or of course, he could have been wrong - though he's been a pal for years helping with odds.

I've swapped to W10 on everything but one laptop now. All upgrades.

I have to say, when I go back to W7, there are things I miss but it occurs to me that if I'd not had them, I wouldn't miss them.

Anyway, I did rush to get the W10 on that SSD in the last hours Central Time! Kind of cutting it fine in the UK. Trouble is, I can't remember what I got the upgrade on which although I said 'scrapped' with me that means in its original box in the attic.

Anyway again, I sound reasonably calm as the computer set about doing a total reinstall with updates. I selected keeping my files but I see FireFox has gone. No surprise there. Also, the Nvidia drivers App is in the list of things they've removed. Funny kind of 'keeping your files/Apps'

So, it would seem that the system just registered a fault and didn't try to punish me with the destruction of my system. Or is it too early to count my chickens?
Loose rivets is offline  
Old 26th Oct 2016, 02:26
  #5 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Norfolk
Age: 63
Posts: 3
Sounds like it has defaulted to installing itself as a brand new installation and just formatted the hard disk from scratch to set itself up. Some of the specific drivers might be missing as the computers are different, but basically it sounds like a clean system install. Logical if the software was originally destined for setting up a brand new computer system and it hadn't been run before.

You will most likely have to restore your personal files from a backup and download and tweek some of the device drivers from the manufacturer of the computer you have installed the operating system on.

Looks like things will work out okay.
G0ULI is offline  
Old 26th Oct 2016, 10:52
  #6 (permalink)  
Psychophysiological entity
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Tweet Rob_Benham Famous author. Well, slightly famous.
Age: 80
Posts: 4,706
Thanks for the replies

The big question is, what caused the really MEAN destruction of the W10 OS on the original drive?
The secondary question is, can I ever have an SSD 'front end?'

This 2TB had W 8.1 which was upgraded free to W10. The 8.1 was on an unopened boxed Lenovo which I picked up cheap. (a young housewife who lived just yards from the place I was already going 60 miles away! You'd think that would be a good omen. )

All went well and I loaded the NVidia software which made a considerable improvement when used with a Samsung 22" Put other odds on like Firefox - nothing much. It then sat awaiting the day I could make it my main computer.

However, after all my 'Connecting' woes, a new router made the old one so quick I hadn't bothered for weeks though I kept updates going.

It worked perfectly, but I wanted - still want - a solid state front end. Oh, and if I can wangle 'Pro' at the same time, it would be a bonus.

Don't however want to tee MS off as they have been fantastic with me while in Texas. There was no doubt when I phoned them that they could see my software packages - and even how many seats I'd used.

Now it seems I'll need a new OS just to have that solid state 'front end'.

BUT, what caused the drive to be corrupted when I added the SSD as a second drive?

Guess 1. MS in some form, could see there was an OS on the second drive and levied some mean trick.

Guess 2. Trying the SSD with another copy of W10 on it (their upgrade on another machine) put a record in MS's database which then jiggered the original OS when that was reinstated.

Yes, the system could only get going by a full automatic reinstall presumably from a partition. All other options failed, one saying it had fixed the problem, but hadn't.

I've just booted it this AM and it's running. The repair said it had loaded updates so it's possible everything came via the net. (it took the fat end of an hour) But when I partitioned the drive originally, there was a 'rescue partition'.
Loose rivets is offline  
Old 26th Oct 2016, 11:36
  #7 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Cambs England
Age: 61
Posts: 644
Re Windoze 10 Terms

"Change of hard disk - new software required
Change of motherboard - new software required
Change of video card - possibly new software required
Change of network adapter - possibly new software required"

As G0ULI stated.

These conditions seem to be unduly restrictive. Has any one legally challenged these terms of lease ?

As the regulars on PPRuNe may know I'm an inveterate updater of ancient kit.

This week I upgraded may Dell Vostro 1310 from Vista Business to Windows 7 Pro (Legitimately of course) - There's a deadline of 31/10/2016 for the sale of Windows 7 Pro on New Machines

Google: "Windows 7 Pro Sales To End in October 2016: Warning For New PC Owners" This is an extension of an earlier deadline.

4 GB of DDR2 6400 (New 33.00 inc Delivery) and the old Seagate SATA 160 GB HDD. The Dell boots a bit quicker and the install carefully left a copy of /windows old - My old personal data. Battery has life improved from the abysmal to a meagre 3 Hours - "Balanced" settings.

Also the HDD temps have come down from the mid 40's to 35-37 Degrees C, depending on processor load.

The reason for all of this was Vista Business extended support finishes in April 2017. Win 7 Pro will hopefully receive Security patches until 2020. [Edit: Well beyond the life of the Dell]

The portable cost 660 in 2008 A fortune at the time, so I'm loathe to get rid of the standby Win PC.

Win 10 Never - In my humble opinion, Microsoft will move to charging Home Costumers an annual charge for its Operating System as a Service in the near future.

The Linux Alternative

Ubuntu 16.04 had driver problems with the Broadcomm Wireless adaptor fitted to this Laptop - I did try the fixes as per Ubuntu Help & Fix Boards

CAT III

Last edited by CATIII-NDB; 26th Oct 2016 at 11:48. Reason: To make better sence re Ubuntu
CATIII-NDB is offline  
Old 26th Oct 2016, 12:23
  #8 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Norfolk
Age: 63
Posts: 3
The "rescue partition" holds Microsoft files to recover the system in event of certain software failures. Your data is your own problem as far as Microsoft are concerned.

I seem to recall reading somewhere that Windows 10 has been set up to insist on being the only operating system on a computer. Microsoft don't like the idea of people being able to boot into multiple operating systems other than their current version of Windows. The days of selecting which operating system to boot into when the computer starts up are coming to an end.

From a security point of view, that makes sense. It also simplifies support if there is only a single unified operating system installed on multiple platforms, PC, tablets and phones. So kind of a cost cutting measure in a way.

To use a motoring analogy, you can drive any model car you want, but even if compatible parts are fitted, the manufacturers warrantee is void if service is not carried out by their agents using their branded parts. Tyres and windscreen wipers can be swapped, everything else must be done through official channels. Engine upgrades or tuning of any sort immediately voids all guarantees.

There are work arounds, but you do need a decent level of technical knowledge and a bit of luck to get it all set up successfully. You are completely on your own with that type of setup if something stops working. Microsoft will refuse support and High Street computer shops haven't got a clue other than to reset the system back to how it was when the computer was purchased.

They all hide behind the licensing agreements that you agreed to before your computer would even boot up.
G0ULI is offline  
Old 26th Oct 2016, 12:52
  #9 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: YMML
Posts: 1,694
I wonder if one drive was configured UEFI and the other not? I don't think a mix will play nicely at all.

With Win10 there's no such thing as a legal copy on an isolated hard drive - it's the "signature" of the hardware in a system that now decides whether it can run the OS.

MS doesn't object to replacing a hard drive -I've replaced several drives that had been upgraded from Win7 to Win10 with new drives (SSDs) and installed Win10 on them without a drama - they authenticate automatically due to "digital entitlement", i.e. MS recognises the laptop has already had Win10 installed and is entitled to run it.

Gouli, I have Linux dual booted on several laptops that also have Win10. The end ain't so nigh.
le Pingouin is offline  
Old 26th Oct 2016, 13:14
  #10 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Cambs England
Age: 61
Posts: 644
Re SSD's care needed, Me think's

I have not had any experience of installing SSD's in place of HDD's (HDD to bigger HDD yes lots) but I do remember that you need to clone the SSD to the Hard Disk.

(I plan this shortly on an other Dell (Opterion Win 8.1 PC) hobbled by an atrocious 1TB HDD).

There are certain programs [free ones] to explicitly perform this process.

However to accomplish this: some of hard disk partitions may need to be reduced in size to be accommodated on the SSD.

A few of the SSD packages come with software to perform the cloning process. If your version of Windows does perform a "System Audit" on original installation, a problem with windows validation can occur.

As a separate issue: UEFI Bios's could in theory block cloning from HDD to SSD. Any input from an experienced IT Person would be appreciated.

There are examples. Just search "Can a UEFI BIOS block cloning a HDD" without quotes.

Modern Windows Systems [and Linux] will on booting from an SSD automatically invoke "TRIM" to prevent SSD memory write wear-out.

However its a good idea to allocate the "Swap file" to a HDD partition. I know this is now disputed by many; but given my experience of using GRsync or Rsync for Windows, there can be a humongous traffic load to swap files depending on application usage vis a vis RAM fitted.

Last but not least some browsers e.g Firefox routinely snap shot their tab use to disk very frequently (Seconds) to provide recovery of tabs after a browser crash. Again heavy SSD write usage - I'm getting more details on this.

LP has beaten me to the Board ! PL are those Win installs on Linux, Virtual PC's or real Dual boot systems ?

CAT III

Last edited by CATIII-NDB; 26th Oct 2016 at 13:22. Reason: Le P beat me to it.
CATIII-NDB is offline  
Old 26th Oct 2016, 13:59
  #11 (permalink)  
Psychophysiological entity
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Tweet Rob_Benham Famous author. Well, slightly famous.
Age: 80
Posts: 4,706
Interesting stuff.

The problem I have is, I've always assumed removing a HD would keep it safe while I played but in this modern world I fear two lines of problem logic.

1/ I dare not repeat this and play with the SSD drive with the intention of reloading via an ISO. (Hoping my system will be recognised as the key.) as it seems to have jiggered the original OS when that's put back in. First bash the original drive was disconnected and its wires used.

2/Perhaps MS zapped my original OS when I put that drive back in and added the SSD as number 2 physical drive. I never found out if it worked as the 2TB was corrupted upon start-up. But why they would do that I have no idea - so it sound more like a computer issue.

The sudden problem after weeks of testing can't be coincidence . . . Nah.
.
.
.
.

Last edited by Loose rivets; 26th Oct 2016 at 14:10.
Loose rivets is offline  
Old 26th Oct 2016, 14:12
  #12 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Hanging off the end of a thread
Posts: 16,118
How did you copy it? I cloned my complete hard drive onto the SSD I used then simply changed them over, though it was windows 7 on the laptop I did. My PC was windows 10. Remember BTW to do a full defrag before cloning, because an SSD does not need one and cannot be done, so you will be stuck with files all over the shop if you do not do it first.

Use this, I have a little kit I bought to do mine

Cloning with Acronis True Image HD 2014 - Crucial Community
NutLoose is offline  
Old 26th Oct 2016, 14:15
  #13 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: UK
Age: 51
Posts: 72
If you need to install a new hdd, and the windows serial numbers won't work, because they are locked to your old profile, you just ring the number, explain your old drive died, you've replaced it and want to get working again.
Interested Passenger is online now  
Old 26th Oct 2016, 14:17
  #14 (permalink)  
Psychophysiological entity
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Tweet Rob_Benham Famous author. Well, slightly famous.
Age: 80
Posts: 4,706
Thanks for the post and link. That'll come in handy.

No, I didn't copy it, it was a new OS which I'd hoped would work before learning the bad news. No roaming preloaded disks.

I rather thought it wouldn't work but worth a try. BUT, I didn't anticipate it causing chaos with a totally isolated original disk/OS.
Loose rivets is offline  
Old 26th Oct 2016, 14:23
  #15 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Hanging off the end of a thread
Posts: 16,118
Cloning it copies everything off your hard drive onto your new one, serial numbers etc and the operating system. It is by definition just a copy of the original complete with every file.. The SSD will want to be the same size or larger than the files on the HD you are copying btw.

Last edited by NutLoose; 26th Oct 2016 at 14:36.
NutLoose is offline  
Old 26th Oct 2016, 23:30
  #16 (permalink)  
Psychophysiological entity
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Tweet Rob_Benham Famous author. Well, slightly famous.
Age: 80
Posts: 4,706
It is by definition just a copy of the original complete with every file.
Yes, but with the added characteristic of betraying its owner with self-identification.


Well, it's still not a smooth ride. Sometime today I noticed there was no I.E. Sorry, Microsoft Edge. I scooted across and soon discovered there was nothing on the start menu - left click. Right click seemed okay.
MSconfig lead me to the fact it was not booting a 'normal startup' but to my surprise, nor does this PC. 'Selective Startup'. Huh, never noticed that before.

I fiddled for a while and loaded Firefox from one of the partitions' stockpile of downloads. It worked fine. But it was a dirty operating system now and I wanted to start afresh so I did the whole thing again.

It's done a lot of updates so am wondering if the big system in the sky is going to hand out anymore grief to wicked users. Paranoid, Moi?
Loose rivets is offline  
Old 27th Oct 2016, 10:44
  #17 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Cambs England
Age: 61
Posts: 644
Dear Rivits

Some of us have very frought relationship with Digital Media and its underlying and sometimes mysterious engineering. I accedently dropped a USB Drive (La Cie) 160 GB Sata yesterday; while attaching to a pair of elastic bands to a pair of Fans linked in tandom, to extract the heat from my homemade 2008 vintage linux box. The memory controller undges 75 C when I'm playing Cube 2 (Saurbraten)

Crystal Disk shows a caution msg: The re allocated sector count has exceeded the SMART threshold. Unsuprisingly !!!!!

I'm trying to copy the data from it to the Vostro as I type this.

I think that we are both going through a process of rational thought that is gradually becoming history and finding that MS; is gradually locking copies of its current operating Sys to a closed family of processors and individual PC's.

An organisation commercially exploiting its near monopoly in a restricted market.

I suspect that you may need to update your Win 10 Operating Sys, immeadiately after installation. If the Wi Fi allows. This can be a long process.

CAT III

(A fellow pilgram in the digital wilderness of Microsoft Operating Systems - Always have a fire extinguisher to hand.)
CATIII-NDB is offline  
Old 27th Oct 2016, 14:56
  #18 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: West Union, WV
Age: 34
Posts: 1
Not every system can work with SSD.
thavibittend is offline  
Old 27th Oct 2016, 19:28
  #19 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Cambs England
Age: 61
Posts: 644
Re the above.

thavibittend.

There's a whole bag of issues involved here. As Rivits said the PC may have been dormant for a time. Driver updates rear their ugly head all to often. Bios support, UEFI too. [Edit:AHCI settings too.]

Remember Win 10 may as part of the install look for its own "conclave" of drivers before the installer (Human) can get a the Manufacturer's site.

Remember now Win 10 has a monolithic update structure - No pick & mix any-more.

It would be great if Windows allowed a minimum install providing the functionality to access the web; allowing driver updates before the final install is fixed in time.

Modern (SATA) SSD's seem to be tolerant of a very wide range of Kit - I got that info second hand from a tech friend and have no reason to doubt it. PCIE Ones I cannot voucher for.

CAT III

Last edited by CATIII-NDB; 27th Oct 2016 at 19:36. Reason: PCIE SSD interface. AHCI
CATIII-NDB is offline  
Old 28th Oct 2016, 10:02
  #20 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Hanging off the end of a thread
Posts: 16,118
Not every system can work with SSD.
But windows 7 and 10 will.
NutLoose is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us Archive Advertising Cookie Policy Privacy Statement Terms of Service

Copyright 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.