Committed XP Pro user needs reassurance about Vista
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This message is being sent to you from a Dell Studio XPS 435MT (2.66 GHz Core i7) running 32-bit XP Pro, so it can be done.
The machine came with Vista 64-bit, which was OK in itself, but it was just utterly incompatible with all the rest of my hardware and software:
I had no problem in getting all of the XP device drivers I need - either from dell.com or intel.com - and it all works perfectly. The only problem is that I paid for 6 GB of RAM and can only use 3...
The machine came with Vista 64-bit, which was OK in itself, but it was just utterly incompatible with all the rest of my hardware and software:
- No driver for my Logitech keyboard and mouse, so none of the extra functionality (e.g. scroll wheels and volume control) worked
- Incomplete 64-bit Java support
- No Flash player for 64-bit browsers
- No Cisco VPN client for any 64-bit OS (so no working at home)
- No Office Update for Office 2000
- No Palm Pilot desktop software
- No driver for my film negative scanner
- Quicken 2002 refused to run, even in XP compatiblity mode
- ...and so on.
I had no problem in getting all of the XP device drivers I need - either from dell.com or intel.com - and it all works perfectly. The only problem is that I paid for 6 GB of RAM and can only use 3...
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Update - yes please!
Blade
Just read your thread with interest - I seem to have spent weeks rather than days browsing the specs for machines and software.
I'm on my third Dell and have always gone for the highest spec I can afford but choosing the machine has been less of a problem than the OS so thanks everybody for your comments re Vista and Windows 7 - I must admit that's been a major factor in my indecision.
Having said that, all this talk about 32 bit and 64 bit is over my head - clearly even more reading is necessary :o)
I'd be grateful if you could let me/us know how you get on, I'm afraid I haven't got Skypilot's expertise so couldn't cope with all of that.
Many thanks if so.
Just read your thread with interest - I seem to have spent weeks rather than days browsing the specs for machines and software.
I'm on my third Dell and have always gone for the highest spec I can afford but choosing the machine has been less of a problem than the OS so thanks everybody for your comments re Vista and Windows 7 - I must admit that's been a major factor in my indecision.
Having said that, all this talk about 32 bit and 64 bit is over my head - clearly even more reading is necessary :o)
I'd be grateful if you could let me/us know how you get on, I'm afraid I haven't got Skypilot's expertise so couldn't cope with all of that.
Many thanks if so.
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Update
agentprovocateur, Sure will.
I use my PC daily but I suppose you could call me a 'lazy' user I know probably a bit more than the 'average' user but wouldn't consider myself an expert about the inner workings of these amazing bits of kit despite having added a few bits now and then such as network cards, extra memory and upgraded CD/DVD combo's. I bow to the superior knowledge of others who have kindly shared their knowledge through this forum and 'am grateful for the invaluable advice, I'd be utterly confused without it.
I ordered the new Dell Studio XPS desktop online on the 8th (last Sunday) and subsequently got a reply on Monday stating the order had been processsed (on the 8th) and my PC was in production on the 9th. Estimated delivery date 17th Feb (on or before that date). Now if it does indeed arrive 'on or before' that date I'll be pretty impressed.
Soon as I have it and have it fired up I'll post regular updates about performance etc..
I use my PC daily but I suppose you could call me a 'lazy' user I know probably a bit more than the 'average' user but wouldn't consider myself an expert about the inner workings of these amazing bits of kit despite having added a few bits now and then such as network cards, extra memory and upgraded CD/DVD combo's. I bow to the superior knowledge of others who have kindly shared their knowledge through this forum and 'am grateful for the invaluable advice, I'd be utterly confused without it.
I ordered the new Dell Studio XPS desktop online on the 8th (last Sunday) and subsequently got a reply on Monday stating the order had been processsed (on the 8th) and my PC was in production on the 9th. Estimated delivery date 17th Feb (on or before that date). Now if it does indeed arrive 'on or before' that date I'll be pretty impressed.
Soon as I have it and have it fired up I'll post regular updates about performance etc..
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Yipeee it's here
New Dell Studio XPS 435MT arrived about an hour ago (today 18th February 2009). I'm pretty impressed by that 10 days from ordering to delivery and if you take into account I ordered late on a Sunday evening and it left the assembly facility yesterday 17th and was delivered before 1100hrs today that's not bad I reckon
I'll start the set up later today and let you know how the system performs over the next couple of days.
I'll start the set up later today and let you know how the system performs over the next couple of days.
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Seen this thread a little late and have already told blade I am jealous of having an i7 already.
But there are a few comments above that are not quite correct.
Whilst core i7 is a new chip design including mmu on chip rather than on the motherboard XP will run fine and there will be no extra drivers required because it is an i7 - the motherboard will be based upon the intel X58 chipset which feature wise to the OS is the same to the operating system as the P45 chipset used by core 2 chips.
This little gem below may help Skypilot get more out of his machine and will allow blade to run XP as well as vista.
Instead of creating a dual boot machine, download vmware server from vmware (VMware Download Center for Datacenter Virtualization, Virtual Infrastructure 3, ESX Server, and more - VMware). Mac the knife mentioned this but did not expand on this.
This software runs below the operating system when possible, Core 2 chips and I7 chips have virtualisation built in at a processor level. So what this will allow you to do is run a virtual machine in a window on your desktop of your host operating system (XP in skypilots case and vista in blades case). Within this virtual machine you will be able to install another operating system of choice and when using a chip supporting on board virtualisation the virtual machine is capable of running a 64bit operating system when the host OS is only 32bit so in skypilots case using the 3gb of ram that is idly doing nothing.
With VMWare you can do many impressive things - you can have as many virtual machines as your hardware can support before crawling, so if you ever felt like trying out linux you can do so without fear of busting your current setup.
The VMWare technology is what is used in datacenters, microsoft has their own version of this but its not so mature yet. The licence for VMWare products is free if your not using it for commercial purposes.
My recommendation for blade is to carry on with vista as a software developer I find it alot better than xp and windows 7 better still. But if there is anything you really require xp for (and I have not found a case yet) run xp in a virtual machine - if you install vmware tools on your desktop you can treat your virtual machine window just like any other window and cut and paste between the two.
Cheers
But there are a few comments above that are not quite correct.
Whilst core i7 is a new chip design including mmu on chip rather than on the motherboard XP will run fine and there will be no extra drivers required because it is an i7 - the motherboard will be based upon the intel X58 chipset which feature wise to the OS is the same to the operating system as the P45 chipset used by core 2 chips.
This little gem below may help Skypilot get more out of his machine and will allow blade to run XP as well as vista.
Instead of creating a dual boot machine, download vmware server from vmware (VMware Download Center for Datacenter Virtualization, Virtual Infrastructure 3, ESX Server, and more - VMware). Mac the knife mentioned this but did not expand on this.
This software runs below the operating system when possible, Core 2 chips and I7 chips have virtualisation built in at a processor level. So what this will allow you to do is run a virtual machine in a window on your desktop of your host operating system (XP in skypilots case and vista in blades case). Within this virtual machine you will be able to install another operating system of choice and when using a chip supporting on board virtualisation the virtual machine is capable of running a 64bit operating system when the host OS is only 32bit so in skypilots case using the 3gb of ram that is idly doing nothing.
With VMWare you can do many impressive things - you can have as many virtual machines as your hardware can support before crawling, so if you ever felt like trying out linux you can do so without fear of busting your current setup.
The VMWare technology is what is used in datacenters, microsoft has their own version of this but its not so mature yet. The licence for VMWare products is free if your not using it for commercial purposes.
My recommendation for blade is to carry on with vista as a software developer I find it alot better than xp and windows 7 better still. But if there is anything you really require xp for (and I have not found a case yet) run xp in a virtual machine - if you install vmware tools on your desktop you can treat your virtual machine window just like any other window and cut and paste between the two.
Cheers
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Originally Posted by Keef
Originally Posted by skypilot
The only problem is that I paid for 6 GB of RAM and can only use 3...
Spoon PPRuNerist & Mad Inistrator
No it wont. Not on the 32bit version anyway.
Here’s the catch: applications have to be written specifically to take advantage of PAE, and the only applications that do that are very specialized tools or server applications like SQL Server.
So you are probably right that a 32-bit Windows desktop OS will not support more than the current 3.5GB RAM maximum.
Footnote - Windows XP Service Pack 2 and later, by default, on processors with the no-execute (NX) or execute-disable (XD) feature, runs in PAE mode in order to allow NX. The NX (or XD) bit resides in bit 63 of the page table entry and, without PAE, page table entries only have 32 bits; therefore PAE mode is required if the NX feature is to be exploited. However, desktop versions of Windows (Windows XP, Windows Vista) limit physical address space to 4 GB for driver compatibility reasons.
SD
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Communicating to you now from the new PC. Words fail me! Wow! I left it sitting in a corner for a couple of days because work commitments wouldn't let me get stuck into setting it up. Got around to it today and all I can say is sitting at my desk is now like sitting on the bridge of the StarShip Enterprise! talk about Warp speed this thing is so fast I can hardly keep up
The system looks fantastic the case and monitor have a glossy black piano finish and despite my initial worries it is actually quieter than my old Dell Dimension under normall ops.
I've loaded most of my business applications and so far no problems. I've played the Dark Knight Blu Ray and just can't get over the clarity of the picture (monitor is 20inch Truelife DVI-D with pure DVI connections and intergrated webcam) light years ahead of my Bravia HD Sony, the sound quality is just breathtaking.
Early impressions of Vista Ultimate are good although I have a bit to do yet before I've explored it completely.
Planning to load up FlightSim Deluxe + Acceleration expansion pack tomorrow can't wait to see how that performs
Going for a lie down now, I'm exhausted
The system looks fantastic the case and monitor have a glossy black piano finish and despite my initial worries it is actually quieter than my old Dell Dimension under normall ops.
I've loaded most of my business applications and so far no problems. I've played the Dark Knight Blu Ray and just can't get over the clarity of the picture (monitor is 20inch Truelife DVI-D with pure DVI connections and intergrated webcam) light years ahead of my Bravia HD Sony, the sound quality is just breathtaking.
Early impressions of Vista Ultimate are good although I have a bit to do yet before I've explored it completely.
Planning to load up FlightSim Deluxe + Acceleration expansion pack tomorrow can't wait to see how that performs
Going for a lie down now, I'm exhausted
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Update
Vista Ultimate appears to be stable. Hooked up two printers today one HP officejet all-in-one networked through BT Broadband router, OK no problems. Also Samsung Laser printer hardwired USB again OK no problems in fact the Samsung drivers loaded within seconds of connecting the USB. Also hooked up a Belkin generic USB hub without a hitch and finally today I connected a microsoft forcefeed back joystick, drivers loaded automatically and stick works just fine.
Loaded FlightSim + the Acceleration Pack and all works perfectly. Flying the F/A-18A Hornet off and on the carrier is just awesome!
Home network is running fine, connection with wifes laptop running Vista Home premium was up and running within minutes and she now also has access to the Samsung attached to my new Dell Studion XPS. I am however finding it a bit more of a challange to connect with my old Dell Dimension which is running XP Pro but I reckon I'll crack that nut before teatime!
The only niggle so far has been with a USB memory stick (disgo E3) which loaded Ok initially and I was able to transfer a couple of files but subsequent attempts have proved useless. The PC tells me the device is there but won't open it again
I'll try again in a bit after I've let my brain cool down a bit
Dissapointments so far = very few except 750GB hard drive told me on initial start up that only 683GB was available on (c) and already down to 597GB after loaded all my apps, recovery (D) gives me 15GB.
'Windows Experience Rating' is 5.9 now that is real Wow! factor.
I'm running Norton 2009 which is fantastic the regular update 'pulses' go unnoticed and means no more lengthy updates every day, doesn't have any noticable effect on PC performance, I'm just about to load it onto my old Dell as well.
System is quiet in fact my Samsung laser printer sounds like a freight train coming through a tunnel compared to the new PC!
Loaded FlightSim + the Acceleration Pack and all works perfectly. Flying the F/A-18A Hornet off and on the carrier is just awesome!
Home network is running fine, connection with wifes laptop running Vista Home premium was up and running within minutes and she now also has access to the Samsung attached to my new Dell Studion XPS. I am however finding it a bit more of a challange to connect with my old Dell Dimension which is running XP Pro but I reckon I'll crack that nut before teatime!
The only niggle so far has been with a USB memory stick (disgo E3) which loaded Ok initially and I was able to transfer a couple of files but subsequent attempts have proved useless. The PC tells me the device is there but won't open it again
I'll try again in a bit after I've let my brain cool down a bitDissapointments so far = very few except 750GB hard drive told me on initial start up that only 683GB was available on (c) and already down to 597GB after loaded all my apps, recovery (D) gives me 15GB.
'Windows Experience Rating' is 5.9 now that is real Wow! factor.
I'm running Norton 2009 which is fantastic the regular update 'pulses' go unnoticed and means no more lengthy updates every day, doesn't have any noticable effect on PC performance, I'm just about to load it onto my old Dell as well.
System is quiet in fact my Samsung laser printer sounds like a freight train coming through a tunnel compared to the new PC!
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No it wont. Not on the 32bit version anyway.
Here’s the catch: applications have to be written specifically to take advantage of PAE, and the only applications that do that are very specialized tools or server applications like SQL Server.
So you are probably right that a 32-bit Windows desktop OS will not support more than the current 3.5GB RAM maximum.
Footnote - Windows XP Service Pack 2 and later, by default, on processors with the no-execute (NX) or execute-disable (XD) feature, runs in PAE mode in order to allow NX. The NX (or XD) bit resides in bit 63 of the page table entry and, without PAE, page table entries only have 32 bits; therefore PAE mode is required if the NX feature is to be exploited. However, desktop versions of Windows (Windows XP, Windows Vista) limit physical address space to 4 GB for driver compatibility reasons.
SD
Which is basically why I didn't bother with it.
So, 32bit Windows7 still isn't going to see and use 6Gb of ram, regardless of PAE.
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Update 23Feb
Network issues sorted I can see and connect with all devices on my home network now including printers attached to other computers. Figured out that Vista doesn't like the 'intelligence' in the Disgo E3 USB memory stick so it doesn't allow that to load but I can now see the stick and it's contents, effectively Vista dumbs the stick down and it functions as a simple USB memory device without the Disgo E3 bells and whistles.
Vista email wizard is a blast it takes all the hard work out of setting up accounts connections.
Have begun to notice the fan noise a little now (if I don't have the radio or other background sounds on) but still reckon it's on par with the old Dimension.
I am truly amazed at the power of the system and its ability to run multiple resource heavy programmes at the same time without any sign of delay, flicker, sstttttutter, skip, whatever.
I've a couple of other peripherals and software programmes to connect / load up.
Most irritating issue now is my broadband connection speed which is way behind what my new system is capable of handling.
So far I'm very happy with my choice of set up
Vista email wizard is a blast it takes all the hard work out of setting up accounts connections.
Have begun to notice the fan noise a little now (if I don't have the radio or other background sounds on) but still reckon it's on par with the old Dimension.
I am truly amazed at the power of the system and its ability to run multiple resource heavy programmes at the same time without any sign of delay, flicker, sstttttutter, skip, whatever.
I've a couple of other peripherals and software programmes to connect / load up.
Most irritating issue now is my broadband connection speed which is way behind what my new system is capable of handling.
So far I'm very happy with my choice of set up
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Just encountered first problem
Just encountered my first issue with my new setup. Although I could see my networked HP printer when I opened the network managment screen my PC flately refused to recognise the printer when I chose to print a document. Then discovered if I started the HP Solutions Centre it threw up a message stating 'no HP device found solution centre will now close' I tried absolutely everything including checking out my firewall settings. Everything appeared OK. I fired up my other PC's (1 desktop (XP Pro) and 2 laptops (Vista(wifes laptop) and XP Pro) and there were no problems with them. So I had to assume it was a Vista Ultimate/HP issue on my new system. Solution was to reload all the HP drivers and software again. Sorted.
Last edited by BladePilot; 27th Feb 2009 at 13:15. Reason: Detail
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Tks SD
Puzzling thing is that HP Solution Centre hasn't caused any trouble on my other PC's (yet) so I'm assuming it's had a wee conflict with Vista Ultimate which I'm running on the new PC.
Can you enlighten with any more info? have you had the same problems? is there an HP fix?
Puzzling thing is that HP Solution Centre hasn't caused any trouble on my other PC's (yet) so I'm assuming it's had a wee conflict with Vista Ultimate which I'm running on the new PC.
Can you enlighten with any more info? have you had the same problems? is there an HP fix?
Spoon PPRuNerist & Mad Inistrator
Sorry, I was being a touch glib, but I have had a lot of trouble over the years with HP software, most recently with HP Solution Centre on Win XP.
I simply don't find the software necessary or sufficiently useful to balance the hassles and justify the amount of disk space consumed, as well as the services it wants to run.
SD
I simply don't find the software necessary or sufficiently useful to balance the hassles and justify the amount of disk space consumed, as well as the services it wants to run.
SD
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Vista Ultimate
BladePilot
Trust all is still going well with your new system.
You said earlier "I've been advised that Vista Ultimate runs 'sweet as a nut' on this config."
Did your advisor give any indication of a minimum config with this software?
Your sounds great but I think you may have paid more than I'm prepared to, given that mine isn't needed for more than general duty - ie no longer for business use.
Having said that, I don't want it to be obsolete in the mid-term - my current machine,now 10 yrs old, is expensive to upgrade because the installed memory is Rambus - I'm better off getting a new machine in every respect but have been putting it off because of stories about Vista.
Trust all is still going well with your new system.
You said earlier "I've been advised that Vista Ultimate runs 'sweet as a nut' on this config."
Did your advisor give any indication of a minimum config with this software?
Your sounds great but I think you may have paid more than I'm prepared to, given that mine isn't needed for more than general duty - ie no longer for business use.
Having said that, I don't want it to be obsolete in the mid-term - my current machine,now 10 yrs old, is expensive to upgrade because the installed memory is Rambus - I'm better off getting a new machine in every respect but have been putting it off because of stories about Vista.