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Committed XP Pro user needs reassurance about Vista

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Old 9th Mar 2009, 11:26
  #41 (permalink)  
 
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Agent,

I run Vista Ultmitate no problem on a dekstop machine that is coming up for two years old since last major configuration.

My current config is Core2Duo 2.4ghz, but to make vista run sweet upgrade to at least 4gb of RAM as vista is rather memory hungry.

I would recommend looking at a Core2Quad as these systems can be bought very cheaply nowadays and are more than capable of running Windows Vista and Windows 7 (The next release). Memory is relatively cheap nowadays so adding memory after you have bought a package is not going to break the bank and is simple to do.

If your going to upgrade memory on a machine DO NOT buy the memory from somewhere like PC-World (in the UK) as you will pay heavily over the odds for it - use a specialist vendor such as Crucial (Memory upgrades, flash media, and usb storage at Crucial.com)

Cheers

Jof
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Old 9th Mar 2009, 12:33
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agentprovocateur
As Jofm5 mentions in his post and from what I've learnt from mates who are a bit more savvy than me around Vista and high end computing 4GB seems to be the comfortable level for running Vista Ultimate. I was going for 6GB but because I went for the high spec ATI Graphics card the Dell auto build/ordering system flagged up a conflict and advised me that I needed at least 8GB to run the system smoothly (get the best out of) with that card and the monitor so 8GB is what I have.
Vista Ultimate does appears to be a very hungry boy but I have to admit I am truly impressed thus far, the system is very very very fast and even when I'm working in programmes like Dreamweaver or Acrobat 8 the system doesn't even pause for breath and I can switch from programme to programme with absolutely no delay, the new PC even seems to get bored in simple applications like Word or Excel! I think the new i7 architecture also has a lot to do with the smoothness of the system as it's done away with the FSB 'bottleneck' have a look at Intels website for more info on it.
My old Dell with XP Pro sits next to the new system in my office and I normally have both running. I now look at the old kit and think 'well you did me proud for years but I've moved on now!'
As I've mentioned in a previous post I went for Vista Ultimate 64Bit with SP1 and I'm just waiting for SP2 to be released. My wife has Vista Home Premium 32Bit SP1 running on her Sony laptop with 2GB and it seems OK but just OK and to be honest it just isn't anywhere near as exciting as Vista Ultimate.
The new system did cost a bit (somewhere between 1000 and 2000Euro) but I spec'd it as high as I could afford with the aim to get the best I could and to try and 'future proof' it a bit. I reckon this one will do me for a while now.
I also agree with Jofm5 about buying memory. I'll be buying new memory for the old Dell and I'll do that online through a specialist supplier rather than any High Street trader where you will most certainly get ripped off.
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Old 9th Mar 2009, 12:43
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BladePilot:

My old Dell with XP Pro sits next to the new system in my office and I normally have both running
Not sure if you have set this up but you may be interested in Synergy (Synergy).

It is an opersource project that allows you to put the screens of two machines side by side and use a single keyboard/mouse to control both. As your mouse goes off the right of your left hand screen on 1 pc it picks up on the other pc's monitor to the right. You can even cut and paste between the two.

Its quite a simple master/slave (you can have multiple machines connected) environment to set up - if you do try it and are having problems let me know.

Cheers

Jof
p.s. I know it does not mention Vista on the front page but I have it working on Vista Ultimate fine.

Last edited by Jofm5; 9th Mar 2009 at 12:46. Reason: added ps...
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Old 9th Mar 2009, 20:43
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Thank you

Jofm and Blade - many thanks to both of you for the info - I'm afraid I began to lose the plot somewhat in your second post though Jof

I had a fair idea of cost Blade - don't want to go that high - spent a fortune on last two desktops and laptop - all from Dell - great quality but it's rather like buying a car in terms of depreciation I think

Incidentally, my main problem is with space - taken up by music and pics - have either of you any suggestions re external hard drives? Unsure whether to go for portable or desktop if I do go down that route. I'm also tempted by the online storage facilities available althugh I think it's advisable to use that for backup as well as convenience when using the laptop.
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Old 9th Mar 2009, 22:26
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AgentP,

Sorry for confusing you - the second post was a tip for Blade on how to control his two machines from a single keyboard/mouse as it can be damn annoying when you accidently hold the wrong mouse when looking at the other screen.

Back to your original questions....

A budget of £500- £600 should get you a machine that is pretty much good for anything, so long as you dont want to do hardcore games/databases/programming/processing. Building one yourself will be cheapest but is not for the faint of hearted.

My advice would be: -

1) Dont buy off mainstream highstreet stores - this adds alot of cost.
2) Dont pay for extra insurance for component breakdown as two years down the line most machines will have depreciated enough that it would be cheaper/more cost effective to buy a new one.
3) Pick your budget and look online at what you can get for that. Some good sites to compare are: -

1) Computer Supplies and PC Components from Novatech
2) Scan 3xs Systems - Custom Built PCs
3) PC Nextday
4) Dell UK: Laptops, Desktop Computers, Monitors, Printers & PC Accessories
5) Desktop PCs - Computers - Windows XP Professional, Home & Media Center - Misco.co.uk
6) dabs.com - Desktops & Servers products at great prices from dabs.com

4) Dont just look at price - look at the components you get for the price and try read reviews not only of the systems but the individual components. E.G. An ATI HD3850 graphics card is considered an old and mediocre card whereas the ATI 4850 is meant to be excellent. It may be worth spending that little bit more to get something that will last you longer.

Once you have narrowed down to a few machines you like the look of (and price of) feel free to start a thread with links to them on here and you will get some advice on pro's and con's with each system. Some people prefer brand names such as Dell and HP however with unbranded machines you can get more value for money (not always the case).

With regard to your question on external storage - how it is going to be used is important. If you just need more disk space then what system do you have ? it is very easy and cheap to add a new hard drive to an existing desktop system.

If it is an external disk you are after then you will need to consider speed - both USB2 and Firewire are very slow in comparison to your existing internal hard drive - USB3 (Due out last quarter this year/early next) is a fast alternative as is ESATA (External SATA) - both of these have implications in cost and availability - ESATA has been around a while but drives supporting this are not that common as are motherboards - Some E-SATA packages include an ESATA card to be installed in the machine. The benefit of E-SATA is that it is the same speed as your internal disk so there is no waiting on data.

If speed is not an issue then any USB2 drive will do that is within your budget - best to read the reviews of the ones you see - again look online for the best prices.

Cheers

Jof
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Old 9th Mar 2009, 23:08
  #46 (permalink)  
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I think that there are two major stumbling blocks when building one's own computer.

The first is the lack of technical knowledge / confidence to be able to install all the components in the case, and the second is the difficulty of ensuring that all the components will be compatible - both physically in the case and "logically" in terms of working together. I think that the latter is actually by far the harder.

There's really no substitute for hard-earned experience to overcome both, although thorough research helps a lot! But it's very satisfying when it comes together. Ask Keygrip!

SD

Yes, it's easy for me, because I have been modding and building PCs and servers since 386 / 486 days, when 4MB RAM and 100MB disks were state of the art!
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Old 10th Mar 2009, 08:54
  #47 (permalink)  
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agentprovocateur
Glad to be of any help.
I have the ATI 512MB HD 4850 Graphics Card onboard and it sure does seem to be pretty special.
I have a 750GB internal hard drive, I was tempted to go bigger but I also use an external 500GB SeaGate E-SATA which is so fast it seems as if it is an internal drive I use this for my backups I have it set to auto backup so I don't even notice it working. I had one or two problems with the SeaGate but a while tinkering about seems to have got it to behave properly they do run very very hot though as they don't have an internal cooling fan only a heat sink which becomes so hot you can't touch it without causing yourself pain! The only other issue with the SeaGate is that I can't network it the way I'd like to so I'm thinking of buying another 1TB external storage device which I can connect to the last remaining port on my router to enable easy access from any of my networked PC's.
Never been tempted to go for online storage simply for the fact that your personal info/data is stored on someone elses system and you have no 'real' control over that system/facility and despite the assurances you'll get from such a service provider would you really feel that your personal stuff is safe? Sure if the Banks can lose your money a Data Storage facility could lose your personal stuff?
I run a small web business and that is hosted on a system in a very secure modern facility about 25 miles from me (which I have been able to visit and see for myself, very impressive) but I do sometimes have access issues, an example; last summer the facilities cooling system suffered a failure and the facility began a phased shutdown it took them 2 days to fully recover and my wee business suffered, I've also suffered a couple of 'upgrades where they have moved my business site to new servers but forgotten a couple of bits (links or files) all quickly rectified but it sure can be frustrating. That said it would be a pain to host my site myself but I've always had it in my head that's what I'd like to do at some point but then that'll involve another shed load of money!
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Old 10th Mar 2009, 10:08
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I was going for 6GB but because I went for the high spec ATI Graphics card the Dell auto build/ordering system flagged up a conflict and advised me that I needed at least 8GB to run the system smoothly (get the best out of) with that card and the monitor so 8GB is what I have.
Not having a go at you Bladepilot, but the Dell ordering system ripped you off.
To say you need 8gb of ram becuase you have an ATI 4850 is complete and utter boks.
Makes me quite angry to see how people are duped by these companies.

As I've mentioned in a previous post I went for Vista Ultimate 64Bit with SP1 and I'm just waiting for SP2 to be released. My wife has Vista Home Premium 32Bit SP1 running on her Sony laptop with 2GB and it seems OK but just OK and to be honest it just isn't anywhere near as exciting as Vista Ultimate.
Ultimate does have its uses for the power user, but the average bloke will be well served by the less expensive Home premium and not notice any difference.
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Old 10th Mar 2009, 12:33
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Hurn:

Ultimate does have its uses for the power user, but the average bloke will be well served by the less expensive Home premium and not notice any difference.
This is very much true, the major difference between Ultimate and Home Premium is that you get better networking support with Ultimate (As per Vista Business).

The more completeness of Vista Ultimate networking is by no means a disadvanted to home Premium - the extra it allows is for it to become a member of a Windows Domain and use those Domain services as would be found in the office.

One issue with home premium that you may find is if you run Internet Information Server locally, it will not allow you to do trusted authentication (as its not part of a domain) which means things like SQL Server Reporting Services cannot be installed. But that is only a problem if your into some serious software development.

Not having the domain features of Vista Ultimate is only a hindrance which can be worked around when in an office (map drives manually etc). But at home using a workgroup network is not a problem.

Cheers
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Old 10th Mar 2009, 14:55
  #50 (permalink)  
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hurn
Thanks for the input but I don't feel I've been dupped by Dell the online ordering system indicated a possible conflict and to get the best use of the config told me I needed to run 8GB, I hesitated for a moment and thought 'Mmm interesting', cost wasn't an issue for me so I took it. I am very happy with what I got and happy I'm not sat here now thinking 'damn I wish I'd gone for 8GB rather than 6GB'
I am always keen to expand my understanding of these wonderful implements which seem to rule our lives now and would be interested to learn more from you about why 6GB and not 8GB with the ATI 512MB HD 4850 Graphics card?
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Old 10th Mar 2009, 17:12
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BP, you could happily run a Radeon 4850 with 2GB of system ram in Vista, it wont make a difference to the actual running of the card.
Its the software (ie games) which will make use of the system ram, and, most games still only use 2GB ram max, which was a limit imposed by 32bit windows.
I believe some games are becoming large address aware, so that they can make use of larger ram amounts, but 6Gb would have been absolutely fine.

You would have been better served getting a graphics card with 1GB of onboard ram instead of 512mb, especially useful for games running in high resolutions with large textures, shaders etc.

Its not going to hurt having more system ram, and as long as your happy its fine, but I feel it was definitely unnecessary for Dell to imply that you need 8GB over 6GB purely for selecting a Radeon 4850.
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Old 12th Mar 2009, 19:45
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Thank you again...

to everyone for such comprehensive information.

I'm away for a few days (giving my brain a rest) but on my return, I'm going to read and assimilate all this info and hopefully, order a new pc!
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Old 24th Mar 2009, 12:56
  #53 (permalink)  
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I give up! 99.9% happy with my new system but I just can't get around my HP printer problem, need advice.
I use an HP officeJet 6310 All-in-One, Scanner, Copier, Fax, printer. I have it networked (hardwired) through my BT router. The HP came with three CD's one for XP etc, one for Vista, one for MAC. I've loaded the XP drivers onto my XP Pro desktop and my XP Premium laptop and they run OK it seems, occasionally they won't print but a simple reset (on/off) at the printer or router fixes that.
I've loaded the Vista drivers onto my new Vista Ultimate 64Bit Dell about half a dozen times now and it's driving (no pun intended) me crazeeeeee!
Everything works fine after loading is completed I can scan, print, copy everything it says it'll do it does. Then most often when I have been away from the PC for a while and it has gone into power save (sleep) mode I come back, wake it up only to be met by a windows message telling me that the HP application has stopped working. I have gone through the switch off/on reboot drill on PC, router, HP but it doesn't fix the issue. I've followed all the HP instructions for restarting the application without having to reload it again but it doesn't fix the issue so I get to the last remedy on the HP list which is.... you've guessed it remove and reload the drivers! Aaaaaargh!
I can see the printer on my network and I can even check it's status, ink levels etc but when I try and print I get the failed notice and if I try and open the HP solution centre I get the 'no HP devices detected the solution centre will now close'!!!!! The HP digital image monitoring icon is alive and well in my notification area but trying to access the solution centre via this portal brings me the same message. I'm thinking it's a Vista / HP conflict but I just can't nail it down. Help


agentprovocateur;
Have you ordered your new PC yet?
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Old 24th Mar 2009, 13:28
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Simple Network Management Protocol (SNMP) has been known to cause similar issues when the vista box has woken from a sleep.

After re-installing your printer try this: -

Open Control Panel
Select Printers
Select Right Click the Network Printer effected and select properties.
Select the ports tab
Select the configure ports button
Uncheck SNMP

Then check how it is next time your vista box sleeps

Cheers
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Old 24th Mar 2009, 16:37
  #55 (permalink)  
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Jofm5
I was hoping you might reply to my plea for help! I followed your advice but I discovered the SNMP box isn't checked any way (no tick in the box)? should I check (tick) the box?
Reloaded all the drivers again for the umpteenth time! all is working OK but the system hasn't had a sleep yet

Blade
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Old 22nd Apr 2009, 08:18
  #56 (permalink)  
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Windows XP Pro instead of Vista for Dell Studio XPS 435MT

I purchased a Refurbished Dell Studio XPS 435MT with following features. I replaced the hard drive with the Seagate 1.5TB & added a LG Blu-ray Disc Rewriter, instead of using the Vista Home Premium 64-bit Operating System that it came with, I want to use Windows XP Pro, I need drivers, please HELP!!!
P.S. Any comment and/or advise to improve my system?

Processor:
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Memory:
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Hard Drive:
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Optical Drive:
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Graphics:
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Networking:
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Audio:
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USB Ports:
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Drive Bays and Expansion Slots:
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Operating System:
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Old 22nd Apr 2009, 09:31
  #57 (permalink)  
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You will effectively "lose" 8GB of RAM if you go back to Windows XP, as it's not a 64-bit OS.

With that spec. of machine I don't see the point in downgrading. Even I wouldn't!

SD
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Old 22nd Apr 2009, 09:56
  #58 (permalink)  
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I agree with Saab stick with the 64bit Vista and then in a few weeks time when the RC of windows 7 is released for testing install that in a dual boot configuration. You probably wont go back to vista again.
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Old 22nd Apr 2009, 11:36
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If there's a specific application that you need to run that won't work with Vista, try creating a Virtual Machine (VM) and installing XP on there. Your PC will have more than enough grunt to run it!

You can get VM software free - e.g. VMware Player.

SD
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Old 22nd Apr 2009, 13:37
  #60 (permalink)  
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cGT,
Despite my early concerns I'm more than happy with my Vista Ultimate OS now. I still run XP Pro on my old Dell and with both running side by side its clear what the differences are and I'm really beginning to like Vista now.
The only continuing niggle I have with my new set up is the networked HP all in one printer/scanner/copier/fax and to be honest I've had enough of it now so I'll be replacing it very soon. It had settled down for a while but now its back to its old 'I'm not in the mood to communicate with your PC' ways so it's being unplugged and shipped out!
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