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Flight Training in Brazil

Old 14th Oct 2010, 03:30
  #1 (permalink)  
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Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Texas
Age: 31
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Flight Training in Brazil

i've been working hard to learn Portuguese. but i don't think i will be very good at it until i live in brazil. I want to do my flight training in brazil. my only problem is i can't write Portuguese. I was wondering does anybody know where i can do flight training in brazil with a english speaking flight instructor. i know that i will have to learn to speak Portuguese and write it better. but i want to continue my flight training while i'm doing this. Dose anybody know where they have english speaking flight instructors. i'm child in brazil so i do have permanent residency . i just want to know if somebody can let me know where i can find english speaking flight instructor in Rio de Janeiro so i can flight train . and go to school and learn to speak and write Portuguese better.
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Old 14th Oct 2010, 15:28
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Join Date: Oct 2003
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If I were you I'd do my flight training in the US. Cheaper and better quality of training. As for learning to speak Portuguese, I agree with you, it's better to do it in Brazil.

VF
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Old 14th Oct 2010, 19:31
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Join Date: Jul 2008
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Were are you from? Why do you want to do your training in Brazil, and what are your intentions flying here, private or comercial. As VF stated its cheaper and of a higher quality to do it in the US, if youre in TX like your profile shows, then you have one of the best training environements around you already. Get your license there and convert it here when youre done, despite, you cant rent a plane to do time over here and i guess you dont own a plane, do you?
If you want to learn portuguese dont try to learn with books or teachers from Portugal, Brazilian Portuguese is a litle bit different and this can confuse you until you get proficient. You ll find close to Rio Jacarepagua or Marica Aeroclubs, who might by a chance happen to have someone who speaks English, but CFIs nowadays arent staying long instructing due to an improved hiring environement.
Good luck though!
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Old 17th Oct 2010, 17:15
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I live in texas. and I'm having my first child in brazil. and the teacher I was talking too said it only cost 1,300 reals per month to train at his school. compared to me paying $200 for 1 hour of training. and yes my intentions is to go commercial. all the way through CFI. and i will be going through the naturalization process because i want a career with a Brazilian airline. so i would like to start living there now to get familiar with the language and start the naturalization process . So that is why i want to do my training there
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Old 17th Oct 2010, 19:54
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R$1300 a month? How many hours would you be doing? The going rate for a seneca is around R$1000 per hour. Be careful what you wish for........
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Old 18th Oct 2010, 01:05
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Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Rio de Janeiro, Brazil
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A CPL+CFI is cheaper in Brazil then in the US, you won`t have the same amount of hours, but if you are looking to work as a CFI it does not really matter if you have 50-80 more hours.

The training in Brazil is poor as far as aeronautical knowledge (every school does what they want and there is no control by ANAC on the training material and here you may have problems with English, since not many places have English teachers for gorundschool) and the CFI training does not teach you much to improve your CPL knowledge. The IFR flying in the CPL is made of about 10 approaches (and maybe 20 in a 25 years old ATC simulaor), in the US you can do several approaches in one flight, in Brazil NO (and most of the time you will have to fly a X-country to find something different then a NDB)!, most of the time you will be on a 10 DME course reversal or holding while ATC lets the 3rd ATR land straight in ahead of you. I have been to 4 schools and none of them allow intentional IMC flying or let you take off below mins even if there is radar.

The nice thing is that there are a lot of tailwheel planes still used, which will improve your stick and rudder.

Multi Engine training is pretty poor too, some schools write down the hours required but in the reality you only do 7-8 (I think the min is 15), I won`t mention any names but it`s a pretty big school in the Rio area. VMC??? never saw one, single engine with the engine OFF not a Zero thrust (there is a huge difference) never saw one, most planes here don`t have accumulators and I guess the MEIs are not trained well enough to use a starter in flight without breaking it.

English speaking CFIs? you won`t find many because they are probably working for an airline, the ones in Marcia (EDP and QNE) have all been picked up by WebJet.
In Juiz the Fora MG there are 3 of them. ACdoB in Jacrepagua has only one (none that fly the twin) and the Acro CFI also speaks English there.

Ground school?? I went to SkyLab, these peoples are crazy, 3 days to learn how to use an E6B??? a week about Weight and balance (what about one day of it but then every time you fly you actually do it)??? weather was like a month of class????? Some teacher even tell you wrong things, I had a 737 capt telling me that DA and DH are the same thing in term of numbers????

If you want my advice stay in the US! go to a 141 school, get everything done in 8-10 months (CPL ME SE IR CFI), start teaching in the US and then if you still want to go to Brazil go and convert.

Last edited by flyingswiss; 18th Oct 2010 at 01:23.
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Old 18th Oct 2010, 01:35
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Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Rio de Janeiro, Brazil
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where do you live in Texas, I know the Aviation in the Houston and Austin area pretty well, and now it`s the right time to start training up there.

200$$$/hour????

Not even flight safety charges this much....

The average FBO in Texas will have a C172P for less then 100 dollars/hour and 20-30 more dollars for an S or SP model or a PA28-161/181 , CFI you can find some for 25 other for 40-50 dollars/hour. But if you want to get it done fast go to a 141 school.

if you live in the North east of the state, try to look at places in kansas you can get really cheap training there, look at this place Star Bright Aviation Star Bright Aviation
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Old 18th Oct 2010, 10:51
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Join Date: Feb 2007
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I'm going to have to chime in here, basically to echo what others have already written: Investigate/think extremely carefully before proceeding with the idea.

I thought extremely seriously about it, given that I had permanent residency and entitlement to naturalize. But have you thought about the fact naturalization might take many years? I used to think the bureaucracy in the UK could be frustrating, but in Brazil it's just taken to a whole new level. Expect to be given different answers by different people.

Combine that with the fact that once I visited a school and the instructor couldn't even explain a basic theoretical concept. For the sake of my own personal respect and desire to be as good aviator as possible - it was game over for me by that stage.

Brazil from the outside is a beautiful country and it does have some great people, but despite the growth/future potential - First World it surely isn't yet. Of all the pilots I've spoke to there, they all thought I was insane to even consider leaving Europe. Literally. I had one laughing. My conclusion is they were right.

Check out some of the posts about working schedules too if you want to see your child grow up..

Certainly $200/hour is crazy and you need to shop around as you'll find way better deals.

In your situation I'd stay in the US without hesitation. Perhaps if you haven't started training already Brazil might not appear so bad.

This post appears awfully negative, but I feel an obligation to be truthful. If however you do decide to go for it - boa sorte.
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Old 18th Oct 2010, 14:16
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Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Rio de Janeiro, Brazil
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TheBP: this is the way I feel too about Brazil, most Brazilian will not admit it because they have never been outside, but all the Brazilian pilots I met that work or worked abroad told I was crazy to move here and try to get a job flying.

There is a lot of talking about how things are going great in Aviation here, I think most of them are lies, the fact is that getting a job now it`s the same thing then it was 10-20-30 years ago. Now there are more jobs but there are also more pilots that can afford flight training.

I don`t know who has the fault, ANAC, the govt, the pilots,....but things don`t work! for a country that on a daily bases brags on how they are becoming a world economic power. There are a lot of good peoples with really good ideas, but there are a lot of peoples involved in aviation with a huge attitude, companies think they are so special they don`t need to answer e-mails.

I`m still trying to make it here...but for not much longer
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Old 19th Oct 2010, 02:48
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Join Date: Mar 2006
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I agree that work as pilot nowadays in Brasil is a stupidity even for brazilians,because of the pay scale and the conditions ,but there is no country like BRASIL to live and ,i miss that a lot being a expat t for almost 4 years.Brasil is a country that accepts everybody,that people are happy by nature,and if you live in Rio de Janeiro you will be bless with the most beautifull city and people in the world.

By the way wellcome to my City and Enjoy!
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Old 19th Oct 2010, 02:56
  #11 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Brazil
Age: 46
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Ive just readen what some of you have posted here and the only thing I can feel is sadness. It is not truth, that CFIs in Brazil have no knowledge, it is not truth that you wont have the opportunity to learn how to fly right here, though is also not truth that you wont have a chance to get a job in aviation. Im european, and got my private pilot license there, but I live in Brazil since the last year, when I decided to become a commercial pilot. I made here the complete course to obtain my CPL IFR MLTE license, and nearly all I can say is good from people, schools and things that Ive learned.

I marriaged a brazilian girl 10 years ago and Im about to get my "nationalization", since it is a must if you want to work here in aviation, at least legally.

For sure you will find better schools in the States, with better and newer planes, and probably better CFIs, but I can assure you that you will also find the right people here in Brazil. Ive learned a lot, flown lots of different planes, in intense weather conditions and the in best ones, and Im very proud of the people that have helped me to become what I am now.

Pilots here know how to fly, of course in real IFR conditions, because in many cases the planes are old (60s, 70s, 80,s), specially in the schools, and
thats something that improves their skills, needing to deal with more difficulties.

About the theoretical teaching, the programs meets ICAOs requirements and you get a good aknowledege to get the tests passed.

Of course, living in Brazil is a step down in terms of life quality, security, health services, education and most of the good things what we are acostumed in our first world countries.

Sadly, to have a good friend when you need it is still the best way to get where you need or want, thats how things works here.

Sorry for the people that is unable to find a job, it is not so difficult, it is more a question of determination. Obviously you have to work hard and do things that you dont expected to do, and fly "things" that can scare you, but it is the way to achieve your objectives.

Good luck for all of you!
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Old 19th Oct 2010, 13:39
  #12 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Rio de Janeiro, Brazil
Posts: 281
I'm sure there is good places to fly in Brazil, good schools (maybe in SP or RS), but everything I saw so far, in RJ and MG, it's really low and bad standards. Lots of schools have instructors with 170-200 hours, the CFI course is a total joke, have you ever looked at the INVA book?????? single engine commercial maneuvers???

I us to work for Flight Safety, and we use to train lots of Brazilian pilots coming to the US to get a FAA license, most of the time to fly then a king Air or a CE back to Brazil. Before flying they would have to take a written test, which was pretty much a copy of an ATPL written test and an oral with an ATP CFI, most pilots would not pass the written test and have huge weakness in basic knowledge (examples compass errors, how an attitude indicator works,....) , they would do fine in the Sim, in the plane and they piloting skills were good.

The FAA, unless you have a PLA won't convert your Brazilian pilot license, they give you a PPL (restricted to Day), but you have to take the ME, IR, ME-IR-CPL and if you want it the SE-CPL, and all written tests (you also need an high score in a TOEFL if you go to a 141 school) guess why is that??? We had some students with Australian CPL and all they had to do was an IFR part 61 ride and a ck to get the multi or single add on, not all ICAO is good.

I know and met some really nice pilots, and most pilots do have good skills, like you said by flying old planes and stuff like that.

I'm 100% sure that 10-20 years ago things were a lot better.

The military Aviation in Brazil is really good, and there are some nice standards there, at Flight Safety we use to do UTR training to FAB pilots, they were all really good!!!!!!!

have you tried to get a job in Brazil???

I can bring you the example of my gf, she is Brazilian and American, has over 300TT120ME (120 not 12), has most FAA endorsements, FAA and Brazilian CPL, more then 100 hours in technically advanced planes, is fluent in 4 languages, English level 6, graduate from the best flight school in the US with high grades. She has applied to about 30 companies all over Brazil and went in person to talk to the CP of most taxi aereo in our area. Her dad was a former Varig 747 capt and got her some contacts, but result NO JOB, what does it takes to get hired then??
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Old 19th Oct 2010, 13:46
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Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Rio de Janeiro, Brazil
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and do things that you dont expected to do, and fly "things" that can scare you, but it is the way to achieve your objectives.

this is why things suck here, for attitudes like this, and things won't change until peoples stop flying like this....CRM!!!!!!!!!!
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Old 19th Oct 2010, 17:30
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Join Date: May 2010
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Why the in the world would you rather train in Brazil? You are out of your mind man.

Do it in the US. I am a Brasilian and I did mine over there, way better training and you will end up with a FAA ticket in your wallet, much more respect when it comes to the airline bizz.
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Old 19th Oct 2010, 18:54
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Join Date: Nov 2009
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If you do your training in the US and then convert in Brazil, it will still take you less then do all the ratings in Brazil.

If you know how things work and get help from somebody that already did the conversion in Brazil it will go faster.

I did my FAA ME CPL in about 8 months and I was lazy, saw peoples doing it in 6 and be a CFI in a total of 8.

in one year from now you could be sitting in Copacabana with your Brazilian CPL, the CFI you will have to get it there, you don`t need to take ground school, it`s really easy the test, INVA part is a joke, then some aeronautical knowledge and a boero test, after that you fly 20 something hours and you get the "CFI".
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Old 19th Oct 2010, 20:35
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Join Date: Sep 2010
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Hi, Im not defending any part, Im only relating my own experience. If you want to compare, there is nothing to compare, as I told in my last email the best of aviation is in the USA.

If you want to hear personal experience, I will tell you that Ive lived in Spain the first 35 years of my life, Im Economist, graduated by the University of Granada, worked some years in banks and became, first glider pilot, and then private pilot several years ago. When I came to Brazil my decision was to do what I always wanted to do, that is to fly, and finished my course obtaining the CPL-IFR-MLTE ratings.

Refering to your words, when you said that you have to take all the written test and checkride there to obtain the FAA license, there was nothing new. If you, a fellow with an FAA license, would try to convert your license to a JAAs one, would have to do also the complete written test and checkride.

Licenses, most of the cases are valid in your country or area (like the european union), and if you want to fly in another country need to make the conversion.

Im very happy with the knowledge that I have after doing the course in Brazil, nothing quite different than in other country. As you know, JAA requirements to obtain a license are quite higher than FAAs, and I have the private pilot JAA license, and really, dont think that the level is really far than in other countries.

Pilots that you say you trained, maybe are "old" pilots that forgot most of things, or it is just a question of "individuals". I like what I do and I paid a lot of attention to get the maximum that I could.

In terms of quality in the flying skills, nothing to claim, Ive learned a lot with several planes and today, I can say that I could fly most of singles and lots of multi-engine planes with no problem.

To get a job is not so difficult as you say, I was flying without paying before finishing my hours, and now Im about to get my first job in a Seneca, with only 220 hours on my log book. What I always had in mind is that if you want to work in aviation, you cannot sit in front of your computer sending CVs in the hope of somebody hire you to fly a 737, the only way is the active way, and you must be able to fly the first thing that appears, call it a C152 or a Baron 58.

Why would I wanted to have a FAA license? I plan to live and work in Brazil, and for me is good enough the license that I have.

Cheers
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Old 20th Oct 2010, 00:27
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Join Date: Feb 2007
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I can bring you the example of my gf, she is Brazilian and American, has over 300TT120ME (120 not 12), has most FAA endorsements, FAA and Brazilian CPL, more then 100 hours in technically advanced planes, is fluent in 4 languages, English level 6, graduate from the best flight school in the US with high grades. She has applied to about 30 companies all over Brazil and went in person to talk to the CP of most taxi aereo in our area. Her dad was a former Varig 747 capt and got her some contacts, but result NO JOB, what does it takes to get hired then??

Probably more TT or having the right (psychological) profile.


It is true that pilot job market is improving in Brazil but honestly speaking think that 300 hrs are still very low. Has she tried as a CFI?


Could you pls name what is the best flight school of US? Who appointed it? Do not remember any official institution making a ranking of US flight schools.


BTW high grades usually (and unfortunately) do not make any difference to find a job in aviation. Most of the time is the TT & knowing the right people.

Last edited by chileno 777; 20th Oct 2010 at 01:03. Reason: gramma
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Old 20th Oct 2010, 00:55
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Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Rio de Janeiro, Brazil
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I flew and took tests under JAA and FAA, the training syllabus is a lot different, the idea of training is a lot different too. In Europe it`s mostly knowledge based, you really fly little and do 1/3 of most performance maneuvers there are for single engine and multi engines, in the US training is done the same way it was in WWI, a single engine CPL is done the same way, and some maneuvers you have to perform are based on combat situations (eights on pylons). Knowledge in the US is what you need to fly and nothing more, in Europe you need to know a bunch of crap you will never need.

a JAR PPL is up to the country you take it in, even the requirements for a frozen ATPL are a lot different depending on the country. As far as doing a conversion from a FAA license, the actual JAR regulation only requires you to take 12 of the 14 written subjects and there is no minimum solo PIC time like in the UK, this is the base then every country does what they want, some just follow the UK system. Even the medical, you get a JAR FCL, but the test and requirements are a lot different depending on the country you take it.
I did my JAR training under the airforce and it was tailored to this type of needs and was really similar to what I learned later on under FAA.

FAA is a fair system, they have a PTS, while in Europe and especially Brazil all the rides are subjective.

To fail a ck ride in Europe needs a talent, in the ride you will do the same flight you did 20 times in the training, so if you got signed up and you failed then it`s your CFIs fault.

In Brazil you don`t get tested on things because most of the ck airmans them self can`t do them. I know somebody that had an emergency on a CP ME IR ride out of Juiz de Fora, and the Ck airman was not able to handle it and the CFI had to jump up front in the plane and save everybody on board, was summer, single engine and the SE absolute ceiling was just 1000` over airport elevation...it ended up with an emergency landing.

In the US, everything can happen, the PTS lets the ck airman to pick a task out of the common.

One thing I really like about training in the US is the emphasis on training emergencies.

We own a Seneca II, what insurance company in Brazil allows a 220 TT pilot to act PIC? please tell me so that I can get a quote since they asked me to have 50 hours on type or a PLA? you said it`s a company what about RBHA 135 minimums? do you meet them with 220, or are you one of those pilots that are flying outside the rules and the operators takes this as advantage to pay you peanuts?

I`m sure there is jobs, if you work for cruzerios or even for free.

What flight school did you went to in Brazil?

abraco
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Old 20th Oct 2010, 01:10
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Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Rio de Janeiro, Brazil
Posts: 281
Chileno: the fligth school is Flight Safety Academy, why is it the best?

Lufthansa trains there, Swiss trains there, Air Berlin trains there, FAB sends pilots there, Air China trains there, Saudia Arabia trains there, Nigerian and Ghana Air force train there, the US Army trains there, cargo Lux trains there, Asiana and Korean trains there,.....

In the past most US regionals use to send their pilot there.

facility: ERJ145, Saab 2000, BE C90, CE510 simulators, over 100 airplanes: PA28, PA44, PA34, C172 glass cockpit, Extra and a citation CJ2.

pass rate is 80% not 70% like the FAA requires you.

the part 62 ck airman at FSA was a former Air force one pilot.

ground instructors are all ATP CFI, IGI, AGI and have more then 20K hours flying from the Vietnam to 747s all over the world.

In order to have the certification they have they have to keep a 80% pass rate on the first attempt of a ck ride, this means that the training has to be of the highest level. FSA is also ISO 9001.

Not to mention Flight Safety Academy is part of Flight Safety international.

FlightSafety International is the worlds premier professional aviation training company and supplier of flight simulators, visual systems and displays to commercial, government and military organizations. The company provides more than a million hours of training each year to pilots, technicians and other aviation professionals from 154 countries and independent territories. FlightSafety operates the worlds largest fleet of advanced full flight simulators at Learning Centers and training locations in the United States, Canada, France, Japan, South Africa and the United Kingdom.
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Old 20th Oct 2010, 01:30
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Dark Africa
Age: 44
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Do not doubt that Flight Safety has excellent facilities, good instructors and many international airlines send their pilots to undergo the type rating over there but to state that it is THE BEST flight school of US frankly think its too exaggerated. Also your judgment is based exclusively on your beliefs (not any official poll/market research exists regarding the best flight school) and hence it is absolutely subjective.


There are many good schools in USA and you should have said that FS is one of the best (and more expensive) flight schools in America.


As you probably know most of the time one can find a good and more individual tailored training going to a small school rather than a big fancy (sausage factory) school. Sometimes the training is even better than in the larger academy.


Do agree with you that US is the best place to obtain the CPL/ATPL in the world.

Last edited by chileno 777; 20th Oct 2010 at 01:45.
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