Air Canada RP vs 340 / 767 FO pay
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No bee in my bonnet. Let me try this again as there seems to be an english comprehension problem: People have to do whatever it takes to earn a living. Sometimes that means moving out of the country. Do whatever it takes but don't compare how good you have it or how bad it is back home. There are pros and cons to most carreer decisions. I keep hearing about the regrets of leaving Canada and how the salaries aren't what they use to be abroad (starting salary aside). I also know there are many success stories that would not have taken place here at home. Like I said, everyone has to justify their decision and if they can't, it was probably the wrong one to make. Happy trails.
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I worked at AC for 25+ years, and have joined EK.
My wife works here, and we quite enjoy our new life. Circumstances make the difference, of course, but the future at AC seemed all downhill to me.
During my 30 years in aviation I've never been treated as well, as I have at EK. Air Canada has some great pilots working with a management that doesn't understand aviation.
I wish the lifers well, but I can't imagine anyone wanting to start a career there.
cheers, CK
My wife works here, and we quite enjoy our new life. Circumstances make the difference, of course, but the future at AC seemed all downhill to me.
During my 30 years in aviation I've never been treated as well, as I have at EK. Air Canada has some great pilots working with a management that doesn't understand aviation.
I wish the lifers well, but I can't imagine anyone wanting to start a career there.
cheers, CK
It is all a matter of perspective. There is more to life than flying a shiny Airbus or Boeing and a matter of fact paying taxes seems OK now. While we make good money here in the sandpit..having kids, all the money goes....as well with the high inflation the money is good for day to day living. Is it worth it. I don't think so.
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I must say all these expats have to justify their expat move. Since when did a starting salary ever have anything to do with the long term goal? Since when has leaving the country ever made any sense to 90% of canadian pilots who have families? You guys can say you are treated great all you want but the reality is the best place back home is hiring now. Our union has just told us they have reached an agreement with the company regarding the 320 pilot shoratge which will no doubt get rid of the position group or at least allow new hires to make the six figure income alot sooner (2-3 years) so all in all the gig gets better. Happy to hear you're happy in the sand. Just don't tell me you miss home. Sooner or later you all want to come home. No pitty on you boys.
Hi Bruce.
Any more news or details on the agreement to rid of the position group? How short are they on the 320?
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Kingair.
A recent letter from ACPA indicated that they have reached an agreement with the company on the 320 shortage which affects the position group. Because they are still working on the "wording" they could not release the details but I suspect it will be good news for new hires and those in the group.
A recent letter from ACPA indicated that they have reached an agreement with the company on the 320 shortage which affects the position group. Because they are still working on the "wording" they could not release the details but I suspect it will be good news for new hires and those in the group.
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Kingair.
A recent letter from ACPA indicated that they have reached an agreement with the company on the 320 shortage which affects the position group. Because they are still working on the "wording" they could not release the details but I suspect it will be good news for new hires and those in the group.
A recent letter from ACPA indicated that they have reached an agreement with the company on the 320 shortage which affects the position group. Because they are still working on the "wording" they could not release the details but I suspect it will be good news for new hires and those in the group.
ACPA needs to get involved. Brucelee? Unless you're a training captain, piss off.
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No Joy.
You have picked the right name for yourself it would appear. AC hasn't scared anybody away. The resume pile is still the largest in Canada. People are exstatic when they get hired here. The people who occupy the left seat of an AC airplane are put through some of the most gruling training and evaluation in this industry, anywhere. I don't know what your problem is nor do I care but you sure seem to have an issue with something you don't seem to know much about. Educate yourself or as you put it, piss off (asshole).
You have picked the right name for yourself it would appear. AC hasn't scared anybody away. The resume pile is still the largest in Canada. People are exstatic when they get hired here. The people who occupy the left seat of an AC airplane are put through some of the most gruling training and evaluation in this industry, anywhere. I don't know what your problem is nor do I care but you sure seem to have an issue with something you don't seem to know much about. Educate yourself or as you put it, piss off (asshole).
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Hey No Joy, is the Far East the only place you could land a job? You are living proof that AC's hiring board are doing a good job of weeding idiots like you out of our country and our airplanes. Oh and by the way, before you rattle on and on about how good it is on the other side, save yourself some time. Been there done that. I'm glad to be in my home country by a long shot. It's not always greener on the other side. Happy landings. ( If you can )
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Hey No Joy, is the Far East the only place you could land a job? You are living proof that AC's hiring board are doing a good job of weeding idiots like you out of our country and our airplanes. Oh and by the way, before you rattle on and on about how good it is on the other side, save yourself some time. Been there done that. I'm glad to be in my home country by a long shot. It's not always greener on the other side. Happy landings. ( If you can )
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Oh, and I never rattle on about how good i have it, I've also been there, done that. I love my job, but thats irrelevant, I just took a minute to explain your hiring sucks. I have lots of friends at AC, awesome guys, they do a great job. And they agree with me about the hiring! I know a training guy who agrees with me. So everyone do something about. I don't want a job, but my buddy's did, and AC told them to piss off. Your loss.
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Well said NJ! I have not looked back since leaving Canada. The guys spouting off in this forum (like brucelee) are probably guys that got hired at AC from a Navajo job. They are so immature that they still think this is all some sort of competition. Funny thing is, if it was a competition, they would be pummeled.
Oh and BTW: brucelee, you will make one hell of an AC pilot. You fit the stereotype to a tee.
Tripler
Oh and BTW: brucelee, you will make one hell of an AC pilot. You fit the stereotype to a tee.
Tripler
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Why make a reference to what type of a/c one fly's prior to joining AC? Does it really matter? The AB-Intio programs have been running in Europe for many years. Pilots from zero experience are put into state of the art airliners, and are managing well. By reading into your comments, re: "Who will be in the left seat of an AC a/c in BOS on a snowy day?" and "a Pilatus co-pilot from YWG" infers that this folks are not qualified to be there, and in that case, most airlines around the world are employing under-qualified pilots. My experience in Europe was a pleasnat one, but the level of professionalism i found in some parts of the world surely left lots to be desired. I too know of a couple of guys from Toronto who sit happily in a left seat of a 777. The biggest a/c flown prior to that was a Metroliner.
"The guys spouting off in this forum (like brucelee) are probably guys that got hired at AC from a Navajo job. They are so immature that they still think this is all some sort of competition. Funny thing is, if it was a competition, they would be pummeled.
Oh and BTW: brucelee, you will make one hell of an AC pilot. You fit the stereotype to a tee."
Tripler
Tripler...........you are probably one of those i just mentioned above. You feel a need to **** on others who have chosen to stay in their country while you bask in the sun on your triple 7. Immature, competition, pummeled? You have been looking in the mirror recently then. Now piss off to Abu Babu Cabu or where ever the hell you are going next and leave the real flying for the rest of us.
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Tripler...........you are probably one of those i just mentioned above. You feel a need to **** on others who have chosen to stay in their country while you bask in the sun on your triple 7. Immature, competition, pummeled? You have been looking in the mirror recently then. Now piss off to Abu Babu Cabu or where ever the hell you are going next and leave the real flying for the rest of us.
For starters, I never said I had a problem with ab-initio pilots making their ways into the airline ranks. In fact, the airline I work for has several pilots in command that started as ab-initio. What I do have a problem with however is morons like you spouting off on public forums about how good they are because they were hired by AC. It's a waste of time. The thing that you don't understand due to your obvious immaturity in the industry is that most of us end up where we are not due to choice, but due to timing and circumstance. Don't kid yourself. If I was offered a job at AC 8 years ago when I was flying a PA31 I would have pounced at the chance. Unlucky for me, that was not the way things worked out. After 4 consecutive furloughs from Canadian carriers it became clear to me that perhaps the grass might be greener elsewhere. And it was! I could not be happier where I am. At the end of the day, we all want to end up at an airline that will provide for us all the way through to our retirement. For your sake I hope you got on at the beginning of this hiring boom or you may just end up sitting in my right seat on my way into Abu Babu Cabu. Don't fret though, when you factor in the money, coupled with the adventure of seeing some place other than YEG, YWG, YHZ, YUL, YYZ, you may just like the view!
Tripler
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This is ridiculous...You think your hiring is good? Or did you miss the point entirely?
Do you guys even do PPC's anymore? How scripted are they? "Train to Standard"....
Maybe thats why you don't need experience in an airline with left seat opportunitites on fairly squirrely aircraft.
Do you even need an ATPL to fly that thing? Does a CPL suffice?
Little too defensive if you ask me. You should ask some of the AC pilots that have come to my airline, by choice, how they compare the training...We can handle the ab initio task.
Good luck with everything. I wasn't criticizing you guys, just pointing out the short-sightedness of your airline's hiring. My airline isn't perfect, it just happens to kick the $hit out of yours in a few areas.
But after getting to know you all a little more, I'll get personal.
Do you guys even do PPC's anymore? How scripted are they? "Train to Standard"....
Maybe thats why you don't need experience in an airline with left seat opportunitites on fairly squirrely aircraft.
Do you even need an ATPL to fly that thing? Does a CPL suffice?
Little too defensive if you ask me. You should ask some of the AC pilots that have come to my airline, by choice, how they compare the training...We can handle the ab initio task.
Good luck with everything. I wasn't criticizing you guys, just pointing out the short-sightedness of your airline's hiring. My airline isn't perfect, it just happens to kick the $hit out of yours in a few areas.
But after getting to know you all a little more, I'll get personal.
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Why is is that whenever the issue of AC recruitment comes up the forum, inevitably, descends into an insult-hurling match? I guess we all have to employ a bit more tolerance and restraint. It seems that everyone has their own path to follow.
I have a very close friend flying the left seat at Georgian who would be the ideal candidate to join AC - he got a PFO letter.
I, on the other hand, left Canada 5 years ago with my wife seeing that there was very little going then. I now fly the right seat of the 777 here in East Africa and have just got my upgrade to the left seat of the 737NG scheduled for 6 months time. I'm earning fairly decent $$$ (much better than AC) and my wife (a born and bred WASP Canadian) has a great job and loves it here. We have a great lifestyle and are not looking back at all. Does that make us bad people for saying that things, for us, are much better here than if we had stayed in Canada?
Come on folks, lighten up.......
I have a very close friend flying the left seat at Georgian who would be the ideal candidate to join AC - he got a PFO letter.
I, on the other hand, left Canada 5 years ago with my wife seeing that there was very little going then. I now fly the right seat of the 777 here in East Africa and have just got my upgrade to the left seat of the 737NG scheduled for 6 months time. I'm earning fairly decent $$$ (much better than AC) and my wife (a born and bred WASP Canadian) has a great job and loves it here. We have a great lifestyle and are not looking back at all. Does that make us bad people for saying that things, for us, are much better here than if we had stayed in Canada?
Come on folks, lighten up.......
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Why...
Why is is that whenever the issue of AC recruitment comes up the forum, inevitably, descends into an insult-hurling match?/QUOTE]KQGuy
It all comes down to integrity...The hiring process has been anything but that for years...It is normal that people get a bit edgy.....When you advertise for a certain profile ( University degree, EFIS, FMS, JET etc ) and you endup hiring the complete opposite, it's not correct. A company has the right to hire who ever they want with what ever requirements but don't ask for profile if you're not going to respect it....Also the process is complety obscure and not transparent. When you have candidates that are waiting 2-3-4 or even 5 months for an answer, how can you justify that in today's world ? Cathay, Emirates, BA to name a few, give you an answer in the next few days or weeks max. The candidate can resume to search for something else or accept the offer. Again honnesty and integrity. Let's move on guys and stop insulting each other, there's no need for that, enjoy the flying where ever you might be and be satisfied with what you've got....Safe flying everyone
It all comes down to integrity...The hiring process has been anything but that for years...It is normal that people get a bit edgy.....When you advertise for a certain profile ( University degree, EFIS, FMS, JET etc ) and you endup hiring the complete opposite, it's not correct. A company has the right to hire who ever they want with what ever requirements but don't ask for profile if you're not going to respect it....Also the process is complety obscure and not transparent. When you have candidates that are waiting 2-3-4 or even 5 months for an answer, how can you justify that in today's world ?
Cathay, Emirates, BA to name a few, give you an answer in the next few days or weeks max. The candidate can resume to search for something else or accept the offer. Again honnesty and integrity. Let's move on guys and stop insulting each other, there's no need for that, enjoy the flying where ever you might be and be satisfied with what you've got....Safe flying everyone
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Job Requirements
To fly for Air Canada, pilots must meet certain basic requirements:
*1000 hours of fixed wing flying time
*Completion of schooling to the university entrance level. Ability to pass the Air Canada and Transport Canada medical and visual acuity requirements for a Category 1 medical certificate.
*Canadian Commercial Pilot licence, current Instrument Rating and Multi-Engine endorsement.
*Canadian citizenship or landed immigrant status.
Where does it say that University, EFIS, jet and FMS are mandatory?
If you were going to hire a CEO for a coal mining company, would you hire someone with an MBA in business, or would you hire the person who has worked in the coal industry for 15 years as say a new hire mining engineer, promoted to foreman, to superintendent and VP of operations, in addition to having an MBA? I'm sure the same applies to Air Canada. However, having said that, AC is entitled to hire whomever they wish.
I think what most people are missing is that maybe Air Canada is trying to hire good employees, not necessarily good pilots. There is a difference, although these qualities are not mutually exclusive. I know someone who was interviewed at Air Canada and Westjet. She didn't get the job at AC but was very happy to commence goundschool at Westjet. Talking with her later, she mentioned that everyone in her class was either f**ked over by or knows someone who was f**ked over by Air Canada. If this was the attitude portrayed during their interviews, no wonder they didn't get hired!
I've recently completed the selection process at Air Canada. I'm still waiting for a response. It's been just over five weeks, and it is agonizing. If I don't get picked, I'm not going to be all mad and bitter at AC. I'll still think they are the premier airline in Canada. I've also been to Hong Kong for a Cathay interview, and I don't hold any grudges against them. I just wish AC was as quick as CX in letting me know either way.
Anyway, just something to think about.
To fly for Air Canada, pilots must meet certain basic requirements:
*1000 hours of fixed wing flying time
*Completion of schooling to the university entrance level. Ability to pass the Air Canada and Transport Canada medical and visual acuity requirements for a Category 1 medical certificate.
*Canadian Commercial Pilot licence, current Instrument Rating and Multi-Engine endorsement.
*Canadian citizenship or landed immigrant status.
Where does it say that University, EFIS, jet and FMS are mandatory?
If you were going to hire a CEO for a coal mining company, would you hire someone with an MBA in business, or would you hire the person who has worked in the coal industry for 15 years as say a new hire mining engineer, promoted to foreman, to superintendent and VP of operations, in addition to having an MBA? I'm sure the same applies to Air Canada. However, having said that, AC is entitled to hire whomever they wish.
I think what most people are missing is that maybe Air Canada is trying to hire good employees, not necessarily good pilots. There is a difference, although these qualities are not mutually exclusive. I know someone who was interviewed at Air Canada and Westjet. She didn't get the job at AC but was very happy to commence goundschool at Westjet. Talking with her later, she mentioned that everyone in her class was either f**ked over by or knows someone who was f**ked over by Air Canada. If this was the attitude portrayed during their interviews, no wonder they didn't get hired!
I've recently completed the selection process at Air Canada. I'm still waiting for a response. It's been just over five weeks, and it is agonizing. If I don't get picked, I'm not going to be all mad and bitter at AC. I'll still think they are the premier airline in Canada. I've also been to Hong Kong for a Cathay interview, and I don't hold any grudges against them. I just wish AC was as quick as CX in letting me know either way.
Anyway, just something to think about.
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"What I do have a problem with however is morons like you spouting off on public forums."
Name slinging is all you are good for Tripler. You are just another disgruntled specimen on the face of this earth. You come shooting your mouth off about AC guys who have flown nothing but Navajos, whereby you too, only 8 short years ago were a tiny Navajo pee-on, but alas today you are the innovation of aviation in a 777. Spare the world the bull****. Nowhere in my posts did i say i was above all others because i work for AC. But i sure am proud of the uniform i wear, it says everything about who i am, Canadian Hey. Obviously common sense and logic wasn't factored in to your interviews, where ever you are. Your types should of ended up on a laboratory shelf in a bottle labelled for experimental use only. Then maybe the rest of us could of benefited from those few tiny energized molecules and free running neutrons that only you posses.
Name slinging is all you are good for Tripler. You are just another disgruntled specimen on the face of this earth. You come shooting your mouth off about AC guys who have flown nothing but Navajos, whereby you too, only 8 short years ago were a tiny Navajo pee-on, but alas today you are the innovation of aviation in a 777. Spare the world the bull****. Nowhere in my posts did i say i was above all others because i work for AC. But i sure am proud of the uniform i wear, it says everything about who i am, Canadian Hey. Obviously common sense and logic wasn't factored in to your interviews, where ever you are. Your types should of ended up on a laboratory shelf in a bottle labelled for experimental use only. Then maybe the rest of us could of benefited from those few tiny energized molecules and free running neutrons that only you posses.
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For what it's worth, the average experience level of new hires at AC in the past year has been about 5000 hrs. It sure is easy to focus on the dozen or so (out of 250) that may have had considerably less than that...word sure does get around of course.
In any case on my recent new hire course the experience level ranged from 4000-8000 hrs and was a broad crossection of large turboprop, corporate jet, helo, military, and transport experience.
In any case on my recent new hire course the experience level ranged from 4000-8000 hrs and was a broad crossection of large turboprop, corporate jet, helo, military, and transport experience.