Air Canada RP vs 340 / 767 FO pay
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Air Canada RP vs 340 / 767 FO pay
Hi Guys ...
A question for all the AC guys out there. Is there a specific RP payscale or is it the same as the 340/767 FO pay ? As well, what A/C have been up for bid the last little while coming out of the 550 course ( other than the EMB ). I have my interview at the end of the month and looking for a little info.
thanks all
fb519
A question for all the AC guys out there. Is there a specific RP payscale or is it the same as the 340/767 FO pay ? As well, what A/C have been up for bid the last little while coming out of the 550 course ( other than the EMB ). I have my interview at the end of the month and looking for a little info.
thanks all
fb519
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AC pay
In a nutshell the RP pay for all aircraft types (including 777) is a blended rate. The EMJ F/O's also earn this rate. It is called "position group".
If you are assigned A340 RP or EMJ FO your pay will be the same with yearly increments that go up to 80 or 90G/annum after 7 or 8 years.
The only way to escape the PG is to bid and be awarded a position that is not an RP or EMJ FO i.e. A320 FO or B767 FO.
Hope this helps!
Chico
In a nutshell the RP pay for all aircraft types (including 777) is a blended rate. The EMJ F/O's also earn this rate. It is called "position group".
If you are assigned A340 RP or EMJ FO your pay will be the same with yearly increments that go up to 80 or 90G/annum after 7 or 8 years.
The only way to escape the PG is to bid and be awarded a position that is not an RP or EMJ FO i.e. A320 FO or B767 FO.
Hope this helps!
Chico
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There actually is hourly rates for B767, B787, A340, and B777 Relief Pilots.
Here are the 4th year rates.
............ day........night
B767.......75.43.....83.62
B787.......78.61.....87.51
A340.......83.33.....92.17
B777.......88.31.....97.15
This is what the company pays out. But, before you see your money, it is lumped in with all the other "PG" pilots and then you all get a share of the pot. This is what Position Group is all about. Take your money and share it with the less fortunate ones. (RJ or EMJ First officers)
Non PG pilots (hired prior to 1999?) are excempt from this socialist scheme and get to keep their money for themselves.
When you bid to a higher position outside of PG, you will also get to keep your money. But if you decide for any reason to bid down to RP at any time in the future, you will once again have to share your money in the Position Group.
eg. 8th year 777 RP pays 101.66 (day) and 111.45 (night). But you would only get about 90.00
Here are the 4th year rates.
............ day........night
B767.......75.43.....83.62
B787.......78.61.....87.51
A340.......83.33.....92.17
B777.......88.31.....97.15
This is what the company pays out. But, before you see your money, it is lumped in with all the other "PG" pilots and then you all get a share of the pot. This is what Position Group is all about. Take your money and share it with the less fortunate ones. (RJ or EMJ First officers)
Non PG pilots (hired prior to 1999?) are excempt from this socialist scheme and get to keep their money for themselves.
When you bid to a higher position outside of PG, you will also get to keep your money. But if you decide for any reason to bid down to RP at any time in the future, you will once again have to share your money in the Position Group.
eg. 8th year 777 RP pays 101.66 (day) and 111.45 (night). But you would only get about 90.00
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I have been hearing that about the "desert" lately. Not long ago one Air Canada pilot quit to go to Emerites. He spent some time over there, and then quit Emerites and got re-hired at Air canada. He lost about 600 numbers in doing so.
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yeah ... but I bet hes thanking his lucky stars he got back to AC. EK is not the be all and end all of airline jobs. Think very carefully before coming here.
Heres hoping Im out soon
FB519
Heres hoping Im out soon
FB519
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Hey FB519, why don't you check out B777 FO contract flying. Contact Parc Aviation.
I heard a story (joke maybe), that EK called up Parc loking for B777 drivers. Parc said sure, we have lots on file looking for contract work, but they already work for EK.
I think Parc pays at least $8,000 USD per month for a Vietnam Airlines B777 FO. They only take you if you have min 500 hours on type and current in the last 6 months. Work 6 weeks on, and 2 weeks off. For your 2 weeks off they will fly you POS J to Frankfurt, Paris, or anywhere in their route structure.
The company, the country, and the people are all great. Probably the best Asian airline to work for other than Cathay or Dragon.
I heard a story (joke maybe), that EK called up Parc loking for B777 drivers. Parc said sure, we have lots on file looking for contract work, but they already work for EK.
I think Parc pays at least $8,000 USD per month for a Vietnam Airlines B777 FO. They only take you if you have min 500 hours on type and current in the last 6 months. Work 6 weeks on, and 2 weeks off. For your 2 weeks off they will fly you POS J to Frankfurt, Paris, or anywhere in their route structure.
The company, the country, and the people are all great. Probably the best Asian airline to work for other than Cathay or Dragon.
Last edited by Lost in Saigon; 18th Oct 2006 at 15:54.
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No comparison
I worked at AC for 25+ years, and have joined EK.
My wife works here, and we quite enjoy our new life. Circumstances make the difference, of course, but the future at AC seemed all downhill to me.
During my 30 years in aviation I've never been treated as well, as I have at EK. Air Canada has some great pilots working with a management that doesn't understand aviation.
I wish the lifers well, but I can't imagine anyone wanting to start a career there.
cheers, CK
My wife works here, and we quite enjoy our new life. Circumstances make the difference, of course, but the future at AC seemed all downhill to me.
During my 30 years in aviation I've never been treated as well, as I have at EK. Air Canada has some great pilots working with a management that doesn't understand aviation.
I wish the lifers well, but I can't imagine anyone wanting to start a career there.
cheers, CK
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Refreshing
Refreshing post CK, you are correct in many respects. AC has changed dramatically and the hiring process now shows it at it's best ( pathetic science closer to voodoo than HR procedures!!!)
But I have to say that it is rather easy to say for you since your position seems rather 'comfortable'. You left with $$$ in the bank and a full pension plan after 25 years, a captain seat with experience etc etc...You know you will spend only a few years at EK so yes life is good and I can't blame you. BUT I can also understand that people less fortunate than you might want to work in Canada and have a normal life....As my name implies, I am from an older generation ( latin courses
) but I try to put myself in someonelse's shoes and it's not an easy industry to be in . I wish AC pilots would stop looking at themself and their seniority number and start enjoy flying and the conditions they have. Meanwhile CK enjoy the rest of Ramadan. Inshala
But I have to say that it is rather easy to say for you since your position seems rather 'comfortable'. You left with $$$ in the bank and a full pension plan after 25 years, a captain seat with experience etc etc...You know you will spend only a few years at EK so yes life is good and I can't blame you. BUT I can also understand that people less fortunate than you might want to work in Canada and have a normal life....As my name implies, I am from an older generation ( latin courses
) but I try to put myself in someonelse's shoes and it's not an easy industry to be in . I wish AC pilots would stop looking at themself and their seniority number and start enjoy flying and the conditions they have. Meanwhile CK enjoy the rest of Ramadan. Inshala
Last edited by Dominus vobiscum; 20th Oct 2006 at 06:42.
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I must say all these expats have to justify their expat move. Since when did a starting salary ever have anything to do with the long term goal? Since when has leaving the country ever made any sense to 90% of canadian pilots who have families? You guys can say you are treated great all you want but the reality is the best place back home is hiring now. Our union has just told us they have reached an agreement with the company regarding the 320 pilot shoratge which will no doubt get rid of the position group or at least allow new hires to make the six figure income alot sooner (2-3 years) so all in all the gig gets better. Happy to hear you're happy in the sand. Just don't tell me you miss home. Sooner or later you all want to come home. No pitty on you boys.
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Wow
Dear Mr Bruce....I wish life would be so simple..At least it seems simple to you. I see that you are a Happy chap at AC, good on you mate. It is certainly a good place to work but what would you have done if AC would have said no to you ? Or your timing would would have been out of luck during a period when there was no jobs ?
Everyone is trying to survive in this industry and make the best of it, there's no good or bad answers, there's only your answer. During a certain period , not so long ago, when AC filled for chap 11....A lot of you little fellow ended up going all around the world to find work....You did exactly what many other guys and girls are doing....Fortunatly, your company survived and you kept your job. One would have tought that it was a lesson to remember...How quickly human brain forget.
Humbleness comes with effort and sacrifices....So please respect those who took a different path and remind yourself how lucky you are to be where you are but the sun doesn't only shine in Canada....
Fly safe Mr Bruce
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Dominus.
I have much respect for anyone who can put food on the table no matter where they are or how they do it. My comments were directed at the many expats who tell us how bad it is here at home and how wonderful they have it out of the country. Your comments regarding humbleness should be directed at them. Frankly I'm getting a little tired of hearing how bad things are at home. They are far from perfect, but even farther from bad.
I have much respect for anyone who can put food on the table no matter where they are or how they do it. My comments were directed at the many expats who tell us how bad it is here at home and how wonderful they have it out of the country. Your comments regarding humbleness should be directed at them. Frankly I'm getting a little tired of hearing how bad things are at home. They are far from perfect, but even farther from bad.
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Not one of my friends with any real experience has been hired by Air Canada. They can't all just be bad at interviews. I just turned down an interview, as have others I know, can't be bothered to die their skin, grow breasts, or shave 3000 hrs out of their logbook. Lately they've been getting a lot of guys hopes up, just to send them a PFO...
Personally, I think their hiring is messed up. And , by the way, there is many ways to have a great Canadian flying lifestyle, without working for AC. Its great for the guys that are happy there. And that pay group does need fixing. ACPA.
Personally, I think their hiring is messed up. And , by the way, there is many ways to have a great Canadian flying lifestyle, without working for AC. Its great for the guys that are happy there. And that pay group does need fixing. ACPA.
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Hey Bruce,
Wait to see what they have planned with your pension in '09. You're likely just another younger employee justifying your own circumstances. AC is still a great job, but there are other great opportunities such as CX and EK. No real tax, better lifestyle, better route network, more appealing layovers, far better cabin crew, no union bs, and the list goes on...
To each his own, I'd say...
Wait to see what they have planned with your pension in '09. You're likely just another younger employee justifying your own circumstances. AC is still a great job, but there are other great opportunities such as CX and EK. No real tax, better lifestyle, better route network, more appealing layovers, far better cabin crew, no union bs, and the list goes on...
To each his own, I'd say...
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Having spoken to numerous mates in the last 6 months of which some got in and some did not the general feeling is this. The hiring process at AC is a mess. There is little or no reason to the process by all accounts.
The starting pay is very poor as many take a 50% pay cut for the first two years. For many this could be a big problem, especially those with young families and large mortgages. After the two year period the pay gets much better but a six figure salary (barely) in Canada these days is really nothing too exciting. Cost of living in YYZ and YVR is outrageous meaning commuting is the sensible option, especially for newbies
.
AC, best job in Canada? Probably but compare it world wide its not. Bruce you seem to get a bee in your bonnet when people try and explain or comment on moving over seas for work. The point of why people do this has been raised already. AC/WJ do not hire 500-1000 pilots a year, year in and year out so people must look abroad. The demise of Canadian and C3 sent a clear message to me about 5 years ago that it was time to start looking elswhere.
I have a better lifestyle, higher pay, a more stable environment and overall better career prospects than any mates back home, including those who have joined AC. There are quite a few Canadian boys with me and I can tell you, not one would leave the carrier (UK flag) to join AC. Some commute from TO but say its worth it.
People make choices for various reasons. AC aint the be all an end all but its a good gig, if you can get in. If its $$$ you want or better career prospects then going abroad is the best option.
The starting pay is very poor as many take a 50% pay cut for the first two years. For many this could be a big problem, especially those with young families and large mortgages. After the two year period the pay gets much better but a six figure salary (barely) in Canada these days is really nothing too exciting. Cost of living in YYZ and YVR is outrageous meaning commuting is the sensible option, especially for newbies
.
AC, best job in Canada? Probably but compare it world wide its not. Bruce you seem to get a bee in your bonnet when people try and explain or comment on moving over seas for work. The point of why people do this has been raised already. AC/WJ do not hire 500-1000 pilots a year, year in and year out so people must look abroad. The demise of Canadian and C3 sent a clear message to me about 5 years ago that it was time to start looking elswhere.
I have a better lifestyle, higher pay, a more stable environment and overall better career prospects than any mates back home, including those who have joined AC. There are quite a few Canadian boys with me and I can tell you, not one would leave the carrier (UK flag) to join AC. Some commute from TO but say its worth it.
People make choices for various reasons. AC aint the be all an end all but its a good gig, if you can get in. If its $$$ you want or better career prospects then going abroad is the best option.