This year has only reinforced what I think we have allowed BASSA, and our alleged reps, to become.

BASSA (British Airways SENIOR Stewards (or Stewardesses) Association)

They are the gold plated Senior staff, looking after their gold plated selves.

I need the airline to survive long term to pay my bills long term.

I'mastewardsothere,

I also need the company to survive. I get leaflets through the letterbox several times a week with local people advertising themselves. I chatted to a lovely lady who was posting her leaflets through, and she's been made redundant. She's got a Phd in something I can't pronounce, never mind spell, so very clever. She's been unable to find herself another job, and is now offering her services (no, not that way...), such as house cleaning, dog walking, ironing, painting etc. She'll do anything to keep her house and good on her.

I don't want this scenario to happen to another 44000 people.

Gg

err have you got her phone number Gg? ;)

Oh, how very cheeky :}

I didn't get a leaflet, as I can't afford house keeping staff... Not sure if you could afford her, mind..

Gg

You're doomed.


You all know it, you sense it you can smell it in the air.



Finally the real world has collided with BA cabin crew and the wreckage will be our terms and conditions which date from another age.

You simply can't have CSD's and Pursars on the rates they are on for the work they do. You simply cannot pay 240% more to cabin crew than Virgin. You simply cannot have people working two trips a month and having a damm good quality of life.

Its over. Its JUST like MPl expenses. The public has no mood for tolerating it. Willie made his reputation on beating cabin crew unions.

He's going to kick your arse and everyone apart from you wants to see it happen.



Princess, dry your eyes..

Why cant the company come and ask us what we think we can personally do to help the company out?
I am personally prepared to operate the 767 on longhaul flights, with eurofleet allowances. that will increase our productivity and also take a bit of pressure of worldwide crew who stuggle to get leave when they want it.
I agree our 500 hours average a year is very low, so im willing to do as much as possible to increase that, but not for less money, harder for more, but not harder for less.
Im also willing to take part time, on a temp basis, but that temp basis will be untill the company returns to profit, at the end of the day it will, at some point return to 900 million plus profit a year, and when it was last year out wages wasnt an issue then, so i dont see why it should be now.
I do also agree we are ment to be a premium carrier, so we should be paid a premium, but there a few bad eggs that have quit in spirit years ago, but still pace the galley floor, its time for those to leave, as its crew like that, that are giving us all a bad name and people thinking we are undeserving of our wages.
Now for those of you who also think are wage is just far to high in comparison to other airlines, i would like to add that as a "new contract" EF crew member, who has previously worked for the UKs largest charter carrier for a number of years, and also a low cost carrier i would like to add my wage is usually on £300 a month more than my previous airlines, and i work similar hours now. so we arnt paid the huge amounts everyone seems to think.

Channex - because BASSA refuse to negotiate...and their only answer is "no"...

So how do we get them to negotiate???

Hiflyer

It may be too late, as I suspect that BASSA with follow the 'No, now what is the question' dogma and it will result in a company imposed solution.

BASSA will then try to stage another show of resolve with a meeting attended by the die-hards and a vote for a strike/sick out.

WW will then issue a 90 day notice of termination to all crew and those waiting in the wings (ex 11 month etc) and existing crew will be offered jobs on the New Fleet contract (which will be worse than what could have been negotiated).

The rest will find themselves having voted for the dole rather than a strike.

In the above outline, the only chance there may be to change things would be at the BASSA meeting. That will be difficult, I acknowledge, as it will be stage managed, but I fear that if it is not done that it will be a vote for termination and not a strike as WW is dead set on his chosen course of targetted savings.

Whichever way you look at it, there will be many tears and much grief in the next 3 weeks.

Good luck ....:eek:

I have the feeling BASSA wants to strike and not come to a conclusion in the beginning. This is based on what has been said on previous union meeting and on one occassion they said they would strike but weren't sure of what at the time. Many of the crew also want to strike as this is the jargon amonst the community.

I doubt BASSA would approve EF to operate WW on EF Allowances. In such case operation in terms and conditions of WW Allowances, length of rest and MBT would apply. I don't think this is applicable either now as traffic is going down and crew are being offered part-time and UPL.

Again, I would be surprised if BASSA approved. Especially when you think that the company has to ask them for permission if WW can do a EF trip or vice versa or WW can work one down out of LHR. I remember the snow storm earlier this year and we were one crew short but the entire crew prepared to work down as flight wasn't full. BASSA said no.

I'm not management, I'm a BA pilot who has no wish to see thousands of my crew colleagues thrown on the dole.

If the members of BASSA don't get a grip on their union officers and tell them to start negotiating properly NOW, then I fear for what might happen.

One thing for sure is that BA WILL impose if nothing is settled by the end of June and that will not be pleasant at all. They are determined to keep the business afloat by any means and like a bulldozer they will stop at nothing to get there. Better not to be standing in the way, I reckon.....

This is really worrying.

Reading the other forums, the BASSA leader (I use the term loosely) is talking about when the ballot comes, (not if). I thought that was illegal??

A couple of years ago, I knew what my options where and was a volunteer to work through the strike. This time I'm not sure we will have that option.:( I know that there are MANY crew who feel like the minority who have voiced on here. The problem is that we are overridden by the very vocal lot on the other forums. I am writing a letter to UNITE and hope that others will do the same. In the meantime, we must ensure that as many as possible put an X in the NO box.

I am prepared to stand up for what I believe in, but other than that I don't know what else to do....

British Airways pays its cabin crew twice as much as Virgin - Times Online

Someone is briefing the papers!

Someone is briefing the papers!


I think we can count out BASSA and UNITE

But the salaries quoted are from the CAA rather than from either BA or the unions

....and it is not a recent conspiracy.....the data has been loaded by the CAA annually since, I believe, 1995.

We need to change. Whether we do it as a broken BASSA or not, time will tell.

Dosnt matter if BASSA want a strike or not, its not their choice... its ours! we vote if we wanna walk out
Personally I will give a lot back to the company, ANYTHING... with the exception of new fleet. as ive said before, when the company was raking in 900 million a year our wage wasnt an issue then, now it is.
So why should i slash my wage to almost half of what is it now, to see the company in 5years time raking it in again, except this time i can bearly survive, who will be in a "fight for survival" then? when BA is creaming it in, willie has long gone to rip his next airline to shreds, collected his bonus and we as crew are almost on the breadline.
BA wanted to attract some of the best crew in the insutry (and before we start a debate here, we do have high levels of customer service, but there are of course a few bad apples that spoil it for the rest of us)
so they need to offer a decent wage, same goes for pilots! otherwise what
is the attraction, if they pay virgin wages, i would have choose to go to virgin in the first place!! (no offence to anyone at virgin... )
Its also good to see flight crew on here who do actually support crew, ive never worked for an airline that has such a big crew/flight crew devide.
I like many others am very junior at BA, and im now worried that no matter what i do, i could be jobless anyway.... i have put my name down for unpaid leave and part time to help the company out, but i fear this may not be enough, even if i signed up for new fleet i think i could be gone by xmas! so in my eyes, if im halfway out the door, i might as well go on strike anyway.... what have i to loose now? :ugh:

you will just hasten your own (and others) demise and bring about a self-fulfilling prophecy. Talk about shooting yourself in the foot:ugh::=

Channex101, why have put yourself down for unpaid leave, and part-time, but are worrying about your wage being slashed by half..........surely you have just done it to yourself?

If you bother to look at the airline employee cost data, which the CAA have published annually since at least 1995, you would see that we have been earning well above average pay for at least 15 years. The problem has always been there, but now, in the worst downturn ever, the problem is more acute.

Then you say that you may as well strike? Hello? What about a negotiated pay cut, and changes to working practices? Surely a 4% or 8% cut and staying in a job is better than a 100% cut when we get sacked after a failed strike.

The stark choice is either you wish to retain your job or join the ranks of the unemployed. Even for those that find employment, for the majority it will be at vastly reduced T and C's in jobs that we will be far from that you enjoy now. I acknowledge that a few will do much better than their present CC roles. CC will still be a reasonable career for some and what you cannot deny is that at Cranebank we still get over a 1000 e mail job enquiries a week.

Crew management have spent sometime looking at how many days can be taken of the NECC course and be in no doubt that we could recruit and train 100 a week in about 14 days or less if required to do so. There is an army of trainers doing very little at this time, they and many ex CC trainers could start in a matter of days. It is as if at Cranebannk there is an expectation of a lot of new work.

Whatever happens you are still much better seeking employment while you are in employment and if the market improves in 5 years, then you can move on.

Hz123

Well Said!

Is Everyone Out There Listening ! ! !:d

rb8

"Listening" and "BASSA" are not 2 words I ever expect to see in the same sentence:hmm:

My concern for my colleagues is that they are being sold down the river by their 'reps' who are (as I understand it) paid for by their union directly, rather than by the members. As such (unlike BALPA reps who are paid by BA as part of our agreement), they have less to lose by advocating strike action - after all they lose less than their members, as their union underwrites part of their pay.

Guess who will suffer if BA goes under. The UNITE reps or the general membership? Duh..... Just look at the history of UNITE. The GG dispute of 200x resulted in reps being fired from BA for illegal activities. What happened to them? They were employed by UNITE on their original conditions! What was their exposure to their illegal action - none, and the members they represented? - sacked. Go figure who is really on your side - answer - it isn't UNITE.

It is time (as I have said before) for the membership to regain control.

What people forget is that this is not about changes to current t & c's it only about one thing and thats the introduction the new fleet. Bassa have told BA we can save 100m through changes to working practises.
BA just want the new fleet, thats it ,end of.

Moo, what were the changes in Terms and Conditions that BASSA proposed?

That's right, BASSA has never agreed to changes in working practices...ever.
Had they done so we wouldn't be in this much of a mess now.

What exactly will they agree to now??
Fixed links? I don't think so, Reduction in crewing levels? I doubt it, they still want extra crew before agreeing to hot towels in world traveller plus for heavens sake.

BASSA wants to leave all crew totally untouched and screw every new joiner, is that not a little selfish?

It is shame that posters describe BASSA as as "they" or "them". The majority on here are now saying that the status quo is not sustainable and they are happy to make major changes to their working practises. You are the union they should reflect the members feelings and promote their interests, how did this relationship become so broken?

As a contrast I feel BALPA are inclusive and supportive of its members (They pay independent pollsters carry out surveys of peoples feelings for example. They have also had a policy of engaging with the company which has given it access to the LT and confidential buisness data.

Which of the two now look to have been playing the "long game" better. Although this time around all our jobs are at risk- I can see pilot CR being odds on.

I wonder though if the union and their members can be compared to the recent European elections in that there is a rather small group that drive the decisions. Is there a similar pattern where the % that actually vote on ballot measures and take an active part in their union is in the 20,30 or 40% range. Making it easier for a determined group within the union to get their goals met?

It is so refreshing to be having this virtual conversation - by thrashing it out on here it may well bring us a solution to the problem we face with BASSA saying NO. And the more people that show they are for permanent change, the better.

The Moo - BASSA's proposals, as I understand it, were all temporary. WW wants permanent. Have BASSA offered any permanent changes? And what was WW's reply?

Cellstar - you're probably right - the minority are probably ruling the roost. How do we get that changed?

sevenforeseven
 

Oh come on you lot. Think about my shares. get into the real world. The gravy train has dryed up.

No shan't but I would encourage all to think about what would result in the best outcome for everyone.

When they thought up the term "Troll" they had you specifically in mind didn't they sfs?

BASSA have clearly stated that they WILL NOT accept any permanent changes to the current T&C. They did offer new contracts (do we really need a third contract on the aircraft) for future crew but WW said so.

... which reminds me. If this future crew joins on a new contract, would they be represented by BASSA? Probably not! It has been made clear that crew joining "ScrewFleet" (the new fleet) are not to be represented by BASSA.

Extra crew for doing hot towels? That's an issue I will never understand as some crew say we have to see the larger picture and not this particular issue. Still, most of the time when you return from crew rest you see crew chatting away in the galley. Doing the hot towels would take two minutes at the most. Who are we there for? The passengers or the crew? The product we are offering is lame compared to our competitors. I suppose this is why BA wants to improve it with some towels but BASSA says no. Never! Sometimes it's like a brick wall.

Dare to say anything that goes against what BASSA, and some of their true members, believe and you are in for a cat fight. Look at some of the comments made in the Crew Forum. If you were to say "Hey, perhaps we shouldn't strike?" or "Maybe we should do the hot towels?" most of the members will hunt you down.

Nuigini,

Maybe everyone here who doesn't want to strike should write on the crew forum that we don't want to? All at the same time, same thread etc.

Although I'm sure we'll be shouted down and accused of being management spies (what's new, eh?)

Gg

Glamgirl - it's sounds like a good idea, but I would be very wary of Crewforum. One of the moderators even appears to be a BASSA rep (or near as)!!

Nuigini - you are absolutely right about being hunted down. TBH I am nervous even just voicing on here!

Somehow we need to start voicing our opinions, so that others join in. There are many more like us, who are prepared to make PERMANENT changes, are unlikely to strike and do NOT want to see the company go down (yes - unbelievably that is the ideal of some)!

As far as Matt's post goes - I think the "best outcome for everyone" would be permanent changes that increase productivity to save money, hopefully not impacting too much on our takehome pay:p and hence no need for NEW Fleet. Or is that just a dream??

Glamgirl, we don't get london weighting at LHR.
And if you ask on either of the 2 forums available to BA cabin crew, (3 if you include BASSA which I am not a member of), I'm sure you'll get an in-depth answer as to why we get destinations payments on certain routes. It's to do with money that was left over from the pot after our basic salaries were altered some years ago.

We earn different amounts because we have different egreements.. The 'old' WW LGW would have been the same as us, but this was changed.

I do think all cabin crew for BA should have the same agreements, whichever base they are at. Unfortunately, things change, new people come, realise things are different after a while, then bleat about it and blame their colleagues up the road. Many of whom agree with me..

Thanks.!!

I think far too many in-house details are being put here,( many are wrong I have to say) I really don't think this is the place for it.

Good luck to all.

I can see imposition just around the corner. The cabin crew then strike, go sick or whatever. The first 2000 to do so are sacked - people will soon think twice about not showing up for work, and now no Voluntary redundancy is required.

If the sacked crew win an employment tribunal, BA simply pays them the minimum compensation they can get away with (it will still be less than the currently proposed voluntary redundancy pay). Plus I bet many would not win their case, because there has been so much talk of 'bringing down the company' that the tribunals would be on BA's side.

BA loses its 2000 most militant crew, and ends up with the crew on even worse terms and conditions than are currently being proposed. ie BA win, and the crew LOSE.

I think it is time you all started begging your reps to negotiate.

I've never been on strike, and I never want to.....

But surely if you're legally on strike, you can't be sacked....???

You can be sacked any time for absolutely no reason at all. It might be illegal, but you can still be sacked. Just like it might be illegal to go on strike without having followed the proper process, but that has not stopped various groups within BA in the past.

If you are sacked illegally, you can claim compensation and reinstatement through an employment tribunal. If the company refuse to reinstate you, they have to pay a fine. In total, the maximum payoff an individual crew member would get, would be a few tens of thousands; let's say 30k (although I suspect it would be lower in reality). 2000 x 30k = 60Million - About as costly as a couple of days striking, but I bet the strike/sick out would be broken pretty quickly once word spread of 2000 people being sacked. The fact that the company actually wants to lose 2000 crew has put a whole new spin on things. The crew can no longer hold the company to ransom, believing that they cannot train replacements quickly enough, because they do not need to!

At the end of the day, the company cannot afford to be held to ransom by any workgroup or it will quite simply not survive. The unions need to negotiate according to the current need, or in my opinion BA's hand will be forced.

Ask Bassa for all the legal options available to the company in the event you go on strike (or even threaten to). They would be being totally irresponsible not to fully inform you of the potential consequences.

When Balpa were in dispute over Open Skies, they sent out detailed information on the legal ramifications so that members wouldn't be voting for a strike without understanding the consequences of a strike vote.

Demand such information from Bassa! Do you think they'll be honest and up front? Course not.

Well at least one persons coming out of this OK:eek::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad:

GS-Alpha
Ok, thanks for that.

Just wondering, this isn't me being argumentative, (imagine me asking in a calm yet inquisitive fashion :)), is this info kosher, so to speak, or your opinion..??