OverStress: After 9/11 First class cabins were closed on most flights and cabin crew compliments reduced correspondingly.

Obviously premium loads must be standing up quite well, otherwise the same measures would have been adopted again.

747-436: So what would these ex-directors put on their CV's if they "sought similar positions again"? What sort of reference would Willie give them? I think they should be allowed to clear their names and talk about the mistakes they made. They did have 45 years service in BA between them, I would like to hear them give their version of events.

We digress....

From the CAA web site - average cost of BA Cabin crew - £29,900

Multiply that by 14,000 cabin crew - £419m.

Two Thirds of £419M is £280m.

One third of the 14,000 cabin crew is 4,600 members.

So the top third cost BA £60,800 each.

But the majority, two thirds (9400 cabin crew) cost BA £14,800.

So the vast majority of the British Airways Senior Stewards Association members are paid significantly less than average but are being asked to support a very well paid few.

So who does Bassa really represent....

Really, read the investor presentation on the BA investor website. All the data is there.

Shutting cabins is cutting off the nose to spite the face. The profits are made up front; without the opportunity to earn from those cabins - if they are shut - the whole airline may as well not bother to continue. Eddington had them shut short term - we are talking about cuts into Winter 2009/2010.

Far better to cut the crew complement, keep the cabins open, and provide the service the customers pay for.

Or would you rather be in the bunk again?


Regarding the fired directors - those involved in price fixing are still involved in legal action in the US and EU. Hence their lack of media communication. The answer to problems is not bleating to the media, but working through them and moving on...

Stall Pusher writes:

Obviously premium loads must be standing up quite well, otherwise the same measures would have been adopted again.

Actually further steps have been taken!

When was the last time you were on a BA aircraft Stall Pusher? (Too much time on the internet in the BASSA office me thinks when you should be seeing the realities of the 'coal face'!)

The previously empty premium cabins are now full...with invol upgrades. Last flight I operated (two days ago) 51 overbooked, every seat in the 777 taken, only 4 of the premium cabin being full fare pax. A previously unheard of 'diluting of the product'!!! How many of the full fare WT and WTP pax had paid knock down fares? Most. 4 days before we left the flight was wide open with reduced fares available.

Bums on seats and open cabins is no indication of yield. :rolleyes:

Those prices will not keep us in the manner we are accustomed, flight crew or cabin crew (or anyone else in the company for that matter). Looking at the projections from our main prem customers they see no improvement in their premium travel budgets until around 2016 not 2011.

Waking up and sniffing coffee is too late and clearly never going to be enough for (what seems to be) a very vocal but significant minority who do not have the independence of thought to look beyond BASSA's preaching and see the chasm at the end of the path which they are being led down.

However BA got to this position is now irrelevant. Who led us here is immaterial, whether the management should have pre-empted this situation of no bearing.

We are where we are. It is now about how thinly we can can spread our weight to avoid sinking in the quicksand. Do you want to live and crawl out of the other side without anything but the shirt on your back, but still survive OR take the BASSA line and stand to attention in full dress uniform applying the final touches to your hair as the sand passes up over your eyes.

The choice is not BASSA's, but for a fully informed membership to take. If the vast majority of fantastic people who make up BA CC are taken to a strike to later find out the reality of the half truths and propaganda they have been fed to meet the unions and not their best interests it will be an end to BASSA anyway.

The problem with this approach though is that pax who have purchased full fare premium tickets get pi$$ed off with Joe Soap in the next seat having not paid for the premium seat and as a result you could lose what premium traffic is left.
Isn’t this the very reason for dress codes and ‘mums the word’ when travelling on ID tickets?

Invol Upgrades & Yield
 

Op-Up 30 hours before departure! - FlyerTalk Forums

This chap has paid £560 for a WTP trip. (£400 base fare for W plus £80 each way to upgrade himself to WTP). 30hours out he has already been Invol Upgraded to J on the 1st sector, while the flight is still selling deeply discounted W fares.

Full marks to Revenue Mngmnt for at least trying to squeeze every last penny out of each flight. But at these levels, we may as well be paying them to fly.

At least at the moment we are still advertising each cabin at it's correct respective fare, and will consequently still be getting some (probably very few) sales at those prices. But there will come a time when we will have to simplyfy everything and actually start selling J to wherever at £560 simply to generate cash-flow. Doing that, will, I fear, put out an even stronger message regards the state of BA than the work-for-free one.

stall pusher,
you ask so many questions and avoid dicussing the realities . To compare WW to RE is completely irrelivant .WW is actually more likely to make the very diificult decisions required to keep the company in buisness . I don't like it either . Rest assured ,i'm sure he will be after the pilots again soon ,most likely over pensions.
If you plot a graph,BASSA has done a fantastic job of protection the conditions of service of what is now a minority of senior crew .It is this group that have most to lose and will be staring over the abyss .
If you were running the show,would you want flights to be delayed for not going "one down" when you still had well over the legal compliment of crew,would you ? YES or NO stall pusher?
You can legally depart with the CSD and 3 pursars missing from a long haul jet ,now,i'm not advocating that but when we are struggling to exist as a company what extreme measures would be going through our willies mind?
BASSA MUST negotiate ,for BA's sake,for it's own sake and therefore for all our sake . Some crew will suffer under these new terms ,it's going to be awful but the reality is that the old job aint there anymore.
It's carnage in the outside economy BTW ,just coz the BBC dont broardcast it,things are nasty out there.
Please don't compare cabin crew and pilots ,its a wind up for both parties and irrelivant anyway.
I'm very concerned that BASSA may lead some really super crew into a dead end with no escape.......30th June.........:ugh::ugh:

Nigel_Normale,

As much as anyone might agree with your sentiments, you run a real risk of having your post (your one and only post as of this time and date) deleted and your alter ego banished with comments like that. Steady on old chap .....

Stall Pusher is, unfortunately, one of the militant brigade within BASSA - feet of clay, likely a rep, now very cornered and behaving like a wounded animal. You are unlikely to get any commonsense out of him/her. Protection of his/her outrageous salary/Ts & Cs (when compared to any realistic industry standard) is all that matters, and lying and obfuscating is part of the game in an attempt to preserve that position.

Think about it - a lot of jumped-up individuals in BASSA's ivory tower of 'leadership' have been wielding power, to which they have no right, for decades in messing about with BAs operation. They are now faced with losing that power, and are very frightened indeed, so much so that you are seeing the cornered animal behaviour displayed here and elsewhere.

Its going to get very messy, blood everywhere, but Stallpusher and those of similar ilk are likely to get their come-uppance. What the rest of BA hope is that their behaviour doesn't bring down the entire company, although many of these militant BASSA lot are saying they would like to do exactly that! Pathetic! :rolleyes:

Sadly, due to the constant, unyielding intransigence of BASSA over the years, added to the weak willed approach by senior management to the ever growing financial divide within the Cabin Crew community, Willie Walsh is considered the perfect man for the job.

He has no problem dealing head on with problem unions. His approach certainly doesn't make him friends and many would argue that his time at Air Lingus and his subsequent decision to jump before he was pushed was down to pressure from the Unions on Bertie O'Hearn at the time.

Simple fact is that he WILL get the unions who won't negotiate quashed, he WILL force through radical changes on the CC and the ones who will lose the most and feel the pain the most will be those sitting at the top of the Ivory tower. Many would say that they have had years to enjoy the pay situation and have had their time at the top. That is why BASSA are squirming so much trying to bleat their way their way out of a corner.

Hopefully the junior crew will not get hit too hard and we can continue to enjoy a good working relationship into the future without the big bully BASSA hanging over everything we do.

It's a shame that BASSA didn't negotiate away some of their allowances and have them included in basic pay when they had the chance. For those that face CR a higher basic pay would, at least, have improved their redundancy payment.

Another way of looking at it
 

Well good morning lads from a rather wet Boston. I see the rhetoric and diatribe against BASSA continues unabated from my Flight Crew colleagues.

So down to business. Unfortunately most of you are looking at the situation the wrong way round . Rather than the cosy 'sweetheart' deal that your association BALPA has cut with Mr Walsh being a lever to get the other unions to comply with his demands, you should actually be pressing Walsh to back off.

The pilots in BA have so much to lose. What else can you do but fly aeroplanes if the worst happens? You are 'one trick ponies' of the first order and Mr Walsh knows it. If the unions are weakened in BA, it will effect BALPA in the future when Mr Walsh turns on you again with those OpenSkies contracts he has got tucked away in his top drawer.

You really should be supporting BASSA and the other unions, rather than trying to undermine them. Unfortunately the pilot community has rather selfish tendencies and are reluctant to see the big picture. You think you have got off lightly, but Mr Walsh is not going to make the mistake so often made in the past, by fighting a war on two fronts. It is no more than a latter day Ribbentrop/Molotov Pact between Walsh and BALPA.

Most of you are pontificating a load of rubbish about BASSA's position and trying to second guess the mood of its membership. Wait until the meeting on the 6th July. Any move by Walsh to impose changes to T&C's without negotiation, will be viewed as an act of war.

Without negotiation? What exactly do you think they are trying to do with the TU's? Unfortunately with one which is known to say No, No, No and No to everything that is being suggested. Perhaps this particular union should learn how to negotiate properly and be honest to its members instead of confusing them.

I have really had it with crew that are extremely selfish and unfortunately can't realise, or think for themselves, that a strike will hit us really poorly and have a greater impact on all of us instead of agreeing to a change to our terms and conditions.

stall pusher,i wonder why i bother to reply but........
"you are one trick ponies" YES FLIGHT DECK ARE ,something we can agree on at last ,a very finite skill set ,not very portable and very specific work . Most pilots would struggle indeed to earn anything like the same money in other industry ,some could,others (most ) could not.
Please explain how that is any different from hip surgeons or architects or currency traders. Cabin crew skill set is much more portable and quantifiable and more easily replaced .End of .
The bit about tea and coffee is sinister ,you trust the pilots with your life but make a veiled threat .What do you think pilots think of crew but chose not to express,is it just a one way street? Most are great,people are people ,the constant comparison with the pilots tiresome , familiarity breeds contempt (of the nigels )(unless you marry one,then their great!)
Whatever is said on here is irrelivant ,but you are in for a shock re -adjustment,maybe,just maybe, if we survive,BA will be a happier place to work.LGW always used to be ,ex BCAL crew and ex LGW longhaul are some of our best crew ,a lot of lovely guys and girls...,and we can at least agree that willie will be ruthless.Stop deflecting away from facts stall pusher,not everyone is against you ,give us a chance, but listen and take on alternative views sometimes...

SP

What? You mean the militant 10% whom are whipped into a frenzy by the BASSA Leadership, then decide everyone else's future with a show of hands.

Now where have I seen something like that before? Oh yep it was on BBC 24 last night reporting on the events unfolding in Iran.:ok:

Picking up on a previous post, Cabin crew total pay is split between basic and extras/allowances etc etc, I don't know what the split is, but would guess as a population, their basic pay will be the smallest % of their total pay, can anyone quote any figures ???

Following on from the above, it will not be easy for Cabin crew to take VR with only 52 weeks pay, would it be worth allowing Cabin crew to use, say an average of their total pay over the last 2/3 years as the weekly amount (basic and allowances) and not their basic pay ???

I feel Cabin crew have been left in a very awkward position at this time, I don't see an easy way out.

1/ Basic is to low and this means small pension.

2/ Allowances/extras being used to top up savings because basic too low.

3/ Being paid well above the so called going rate, can make leaving hard.

I wish all Cabin crew well, but the numbers are not good, you are a large population getting paid well over market rate, the company is operating in hard times and cash is king, and will continue to be king for a long time.

Only option I can see, is the pilots taking a real pay cut and putting that cash up to ease the Cabin crew pay issues, remember, the pilots get the best pension deal in the long run, so could be in their best interests to do this.

New entrant basic pay is between £11,000 - £18,000.
Full time allowances would be between £1500-£2000 per month (£15000 -£20,000 per year) depending on trips.

The problem is the old contract, I don't have all the scales but a Purser with 13 years service has a basic of £35,000, CSD's go up to £45,000.

There are enough old contract left to make the VR package worthwhile for themselves and the company.

You are right that VR for new entrants is not worth much, their basic is low to account for the huge allowances, unfortunately that was the choice of the old contract crew and BASSA at the time, they protected their salaries/allowances and let the new joiners take the hit.

BA have been trying for years to get an hourly rate, BASSA always says no, I don't think it appropriate that pilots now give up money to fund cabin crew redundancies when the problem is of their own (via BASSA) making.
In fact perhaps the old contract crew themselves could take a bigger hit to help out the new contract crew? Thought not ;)

Be careful what you believe, BASSA is talking of crew on £16,000 unable to afford meals, even on the first years payscale FULL TIME crew will earn over £20,000 unless they never turn up at work that is.

Anyway, the proposal leaves crew pay virtually untouched, it is the prospect of working harder and the thought of losing some of the well paid routes in the future that is causing the resistance.

Oh No! I never saw the 'one trick pony' thing until now! Damn! The MBA I also have and the MCSE qualification must have been a complete waste of time as I am a 'one trick pony'.

Careful SP, you were the one who brought up the debate about getting things personal. As has already been said how does being a qualified professional pilot differ from any other profession where specific skill sets are required?

The differences between the two roles on the aircraft have been discussed long and hard and here is not the thread for it.

When one retreats to the 'I'm not, you are' stages of discussion then there generally tends to be a lack of ability to bring coherent arguments to the table. Pilots have far stricter limits and checks placed upon them which makes their training and standards far more costly to maintain. Medicals, sim checks, IR checks etc. Thus, by maintaining a pay differential the company can attract suitable, qualified pilots into the company thus reducing training/insurance costs. Something that would dry up if the T's & C's weren't maintained to a decent level. Sadly the same doesn't exist for the cabin crew.

As with the Cabin Crew many in front of the cockpit door are also multi faceted individuals who have much more up their sleeve than 'just' piloting around a jet full of your backsides. Trust me, those who were on the JNB with the un-commanded slat retraction are probably feeling very happy with their 'one trick ponies' at the moment. By all accounts they should have been in the brush at the end of the runway but for the quick action of the nags in the front.

As to your 'war', remember that war is what happens when all attempts at diplomacy fails.

Sound familiar?

That sounds accurate!

Basic salary last year for main cabin crew that started in 1995 was around £29.000.

I see selective deafness remains the order of the day at BASSA. Otherwise, I would have had an answer to the following from Stall Pusher. For the fourth time:


I expect this will remain unanswered along with the question of why the BASSA leadership are apparently intentionally misleading their membership.


I'm going to bow out of this debate now as my point has been well and truly made. I feel for most of the crew, I really do. I question the actions of their union "leaders" as I see no reason for their intransigence. Unfortunately, there are several of the ilk of Stall Pusher who are either too blinkered to want to see the alternatives to their argument or are too ignorant to see the train wreck which lies ahead. They have been given fair warning.

I think you will find that the average BA pilot is well placed to go and do something in the 'real world' with a salary well above that which your typical BA cabin crew member could demand. But that is only my opinion, and you are quite entitled to yours. The fact that we do not want to go do something else because we love flying, does however add some truth to your statement. Willie does indeed know this because he understands pilots, just as he understands unions.

Again, I am in agreement with you. This is why I beg you to ask BASSA to negotiate properly and stop rushing head long towards the cliff edge. BA will crush you, and it will have been totally unnecessary and a huge shame. You absolutely will not win! Any thoughts of victory against BA in this climate are just plain stupid. After crushing you, they may well target their energy towards BALPA in the future - you are quite right, but it is not this that I am worried about at the moment. I am however, very very concerned for the well being of all of my colleagues in the cabin. BASSA are not going to secure the best possible outcome for it's members with this current plan of action, and that is unforgivable.

HF, the biggest problem is the intransigence of those in BASSA who believe that everyone else in the company needs to change except them.

The time has come for BASSA to accept that change has to come and the protected empires of the senior LH CC is about to crumble, possibly for the good of the more junior members. Instead of blaming each and every other department for taking the time and effort to negotiate a change they should concentrate on negotiating an acceptable position for their members.

Plodding along and nuigini, thanks for the numbers.

Below is the picture I see.

15/20k Allowances per year,too hi, little tax paid on this, no effect on pensions.

11/18k Basic for newbees, too low, normal tax applied, decides pension pay.

29k Basic for many old timers, too hi (market rate) ditto ditto.

35k Basic for old time pursers, too hi (market rate) ditto ditto.

45k Basic for old time CSDs, too hi (market rate) ditto ditto.

Lowest paid in BARP, others in APS/NAPS.

Only option to keep the above happy is no change I think, but in these times, that option will not be avail, reminds me of an old MOL saying "perfect strorm" and just like we can't control the weather, this will not be controlled by all the horses pulling in different directions, the next few months will not be nice.

Basic salary these days first years is somewhere around £10.800.

Those who joined in 1997 on the new contract started at some £8000 and would these days be around £19.000 (full-time).

Could British Airways really go bust or not? - Times Online

If you bother to read the whole article it makes very sobering reading:bored:

I'd say they've got it spot on, if BA does go down it will be mainly caused by the Directors mismanagement . What they are doing in public is destroying whats left of the companies image and driving away many passengers worried about the validity of any tickets they might buy.

WW is playing a dangerous game , unfortunately if it does all go to the wall he won't be the one that has to pick up the pieces.

and this one may please Stall Pusher and PiB

BA may ditch OpenSkies as transatlantic flights dive | Business | The Observer

I have been following this thread with interest and in my opinion as an outsider, I think that this union BASSA seem to have a lot to answer for. In this day companies need to change and adapt to the market and sometimes that means that jobs need to change, people need to do things different and sometimes people are made redundant.

I understand that Richard Branson can react quickly as he does not have the interference that BA has, in my opinion, from an outsider I would blame the unions equally - you cannot refuse everything the company asks, the hot towel debate sums this up for me. That argument was just insane, sorry but that is how I view it.

I hope you survive and regardless of what you think, you do seem to have a stong leader, popular no - but someone who is prepared to stand up and fight. Maybe in 5 years if you get through this then you will think differently.

So....

Going back to my question on post 912....

The question was....

Who will ask Liz Malone, (the BASSA chairman) why she deliberately permitted BASSA to post information that was both incomplete and incorrect ?

It has been confirmed by BALPA that Liz had received the complete, accurate BALPA document 72hrs beforehand ?

I have now had the following cryptic private message from Stall Pusher:

Balpa document

I have the the answer, but I have been gagged until the 25th by the moderator Flaps 40

SP

Is any other BASSA member actually prepared to ask the Chair of BASSA why she has permitted BASSA to lie ?

Anyone ... ?

Or are you all forgetting who a union is meant to represent ?

Thanks Da Dog/ Fargoo, nice to have some support here.

When Walsh predicted last year that 30 airlines would go bust in the recession, we never thought he would start one of them!!!

Nearly £100m has been wasted on OpenSkies/L'Avion

Walsh should now resign. He has no credibility whatsoever.

There is no way the unions should give up anything in light of this.

barbara cassani/john glosto? if you know you know! :ok:

So you think the people who count won't give him credit for delivering a 10% margin, getting T5 to a state where its performance is record breaking, neutering militant staff groups such as the bus drivers or axing thousands of managers? Once he castrates BASSA and removes the annual threat of industrial action the shareholders will thrilled.

Similarly....

The shareholders will be thrilled when he imposes terms on all groups on 1st July (including pilots) as no agreements were met with all NSP groups.

No deal with Crew/ Groundstaff, deal with pilots is off too is this not the case?

I'm not gloating BTW, just pointing out facts that could hit home to us all in just over one week.

Everyone is willing SP to urge BASSA to negotiate (believe me I'm their least biggest fan!). I ask is anyone emailing or calling BA to negotiate too? You may find this course just a worthwhile, as you all seem to think that the lack of progression stems from one camp.

WLITS

I've read and watched this thread with growing alarm, stunned at the ignorance and arrogance displayed by Stall Pusher.

Let's see, where to start? Well your latest displays a fairly profound lack of knowledge about the OS deals; whilst we may not agree with them, they were given £30 million as a start-up cost, and the acquisition of L'Avion brought with it a cash balance equivalent to the purchase price. So nowhere near £100 million. On top of that, they are not getting the other 757's from the fleet, so are running with two from BA and two legacy from the purchase.

All in all a Pyrrhic victory for Walsh; BA pilots would happily have accomodated that deal given the chance, but were forced into a corner by a very savvy legal department, one that Stall Pusher may well find slapping him in the face very soon.

The personal cost to Cabin Crew will be quite dreadful, but the fault for that should land at one door and one door alone; BASSA. For years they have fought to preserve the earnings of an elite few at the cost of other bases and new joiners. For years they have found themselves in the ego-enhancing position of being first point of contact in any disruption, and found that they were listened to when in reality they had no right to that level of importance of influence in airline operations. For years they have ignored the fact that we are no longer in the 70's and a nationalised industry, but have continued to behave as if we are, and chose not to integrate the remnants of that age (look at the wish-list on page one of this thread to refresh memories) into basic pay. Indeed the vociferousness of opposition to the "hourly rate" was quite something, and carried through the community without most of the cabin crew really realising how it would benefit them longer-term, how it could affect pensionable pay, and indeed, how it would apply in the event of compulsory redundancy.

The thing is, I could go on. And on and on. Why should I as a Captain have to defer to a Union for the application of discretion? Please explain that one, with reference to the Air Navigation Order and the particular paragraphs that state that this is all ok but BASSA come first.

I hate to say it, but there is a wake-up call coming, and it will hurt most those who are not BASSA officials, or the highest way-over market-rate paid crew, but the ones who can take the hit the least, the vast majority. And the reason for that will be that for years they have been "served" by a union not fit for purpose, a collection of individuals little more than a clique who will do anything to keep their own particular status quo at the expense of every other part of their organisation being on different terms. And now it has come home to bite, and bite it will, and it will hurt.

The sooner BA cabin-crew realise how their union has sold them down the river the better. The sooner they realise that the intelligence-insulting tabloid "Newsflashes" they send out are littered with innacuracies and untruths the better.

SO why is it not mentioned anywhere that BASSA had the BALPA negotiated deal in hand as of the 15th? Why did they choose the tone they chose for the newsletter? And why did they not publish it in full, rather cherry-pick and spin to suit their own agenda? Why did they not poll their members for how they would wish them to deal with the company's proposal? Why did they not forensically examine the company's accounts to see if they were telling the truth?

Oh sorry; "BA are profitable." So it's all ok then. Stall Pusher said so a few posts ago, so it must be true, and this will all go away.

Unfortunately, Mr SP, you are doing such a disservice to your fellow crew that you are culpable. I only hope the majority can see through you.

I hate to say this, but I will do anything to keep my company afloat, and if that involves crossing your picket lines and working in the cabin, then so be it. I have asked my colleagues the same on the last few flights and there is in my little unscientific poll 100% agreement on that course of action. Sorry, but if you call a strike I will do my best to break it. If you called a JUSTIFIED strike I would support you 100%, but the difference is in the detail, you have no justification.

You have 9-days to negotiate an agreement. Do it. You have neither credibiity nor accuracy in your arguments, your agreements cannot hold water and you will either move with the times, take the financial hit, or be signing-on.

Plan10,

Excellent post! I completely understand where you're coming from. I hadn't heard the flight crew willing to work in the cabin if it comes to strike, but fair play to you. I'll be there with you, as I have no intention of striking - and I will be voting NO strike if it comes to it.

I still can't find any legal reason to strike, and the sooner the militants and Bassa realise this, the better.

Gg

Glamgirl, you have no idea how much it pains me to write what I did, but I WILL cross any BASSA picket line related to this dispute and work in the cabin if it will keep my family fed. Had the union a justifiable dispute then I would NEVER coutenance that action, but unfortunately BASSA have already set their stall out by choosing not to preserve a single-list for crew but allow different bases, rates, seniority lists and agreements over the year as long as their core, and the agreements regarding that core were preserved.

Others-be-damned, as long as the elite in BASSA could maintain their position it was ok. Well, it wasn't. By ignoring the issues that were raised by seperate base agreements at Gatwick, the Regions, the integrations of CFE crew etc. they merely solidified their own position. Fortress Heathrow is too simplistic a term, but that is simply what it was, and is. Now, the CSD's on Shorhaul aircraft, the over-crewing over and above levels minimum for either legal requirements or service are being directly challenged and BASSA is squealing for your indignation and support. They are mis-representing facts to try to achieve that goal. They are trying to paint other workers as the demons, even management as being unrealsitic when in reality their position is untenable and indefensible.

This was a long time coming. Had your union been worth the dues you pay they would have seen it, and spent the last few years mitigating it and finding ways to bring their position into line with the market, perhaps with a premiuim element had they the nous to negotiate that.

That they did not speaks volumes about their motivation and their ability. That they may drag the company down is sufficient for me to forsake my politicla sensibilities and consider breaking a strike, and from someone with my history (dating back to the picket-lines on the miners strike and the poll-tax marches) that is not something I would do lightly. But I will in this case if BASSA call a strike, and I will call on ALL my colleagues who care for the company to do the same, as BASSA are unrepresentative, selfish, ignorant of the greater business world we inhabit now and culpable in what is to come.

Thank you for what you write Glamgirl; I know most crew are like you, and you I want to see suffer the least. We all will take a hit in the next few weeks, it is shameful that a selfish agenda masks BASSA's motivations.

Plan10 is spot-on by my understanding of the facts.

I can work a bev-maker and would do my bit. I would say that most pilots would work as described.

BASSA are playing with fire now as their communications to their members will be examined in court should it come to it.

FWIW it took BALPA some time to convince its members that the figures in the books were as bad as they are. The result is the deal they have struck... after long and hard negotiation.

BASSA didn't even see the need to see the books and do not understand how to negotiate....

WeLieintheShadows: All deals will not be off, assuming failure to agree, BA will impose the savings anyway, depts who have agreed will then go ahead with the agreed changes. I'm sure that fact will shortly be seized on and twisted for propaganda reasons.... :hmm:

Shadows - BALPA have come up with an elegant solution to the scenario you describe. Our cost saving measures commence on October 1st, 92 days after the day on which WW will issue 90 days notice on the contracts of those groups who don't think they should contribute. By that stage we'll have a clear picture of how the savings are to be wrung from those groups.

An interesting fact is that UNITE (formally the T and G) has its biggest block membership
in the UK at Heathrow and specifically within BA with BASSA and the ground unions.

Whatever happens they stand to be the biggest losers with a reduction in membership and thereby funds.

Has anybody seen Tony Woodley ?

NO Carnage you are re-writing history to suit your biased, warped and anti cabin crew agenda. Your post about the so called "victories" of Walsh were in fact defeats. Even BALPA said that the 10% Operating Turnover Margin goal was taking precedent over the prudent running of the airline. That is how we have gone from a huge profit, to a record breaking loss.

Of the £54m paid for L'Avion there was supposed to be £24m in cash....but no one said what debts the airline had. BA has cash in the bank, but it has debts. As we come up to the first anniversary of OS commencing operations, there is no doubt it has been a huge and naive blunder. Just as the oil price peaked at U$147 and with the wreckage of other failed business only model airlines laying around, Walsh starts up one of the same...and the outcome has been the same.

Of course Walsh gave BALPA a bloody nose over OS, so it is strange that Carnage and his other OTP friends seem to be disappointed that it may not survive.

As I have said before so many times, BA is profitable. It would be profitable now if it was paying the market rate for fuel.

I don't know if anyone has noticed, but most cabin crew avoid PPRUNE and threads such as this like the plague, because it is a pro Flight Deck and anti cabin crew community. Pilots get very upset when cabin crew post comments on their threads, but it is OK for them to display their natural arrogance and talk about "intelligent negotiating", "elegant solution" which sounds pompous in the extreme. The truth is most pilots just moan about BALPA being 'impotent' and 'expensive'. Some have left in protest over the legal humiliation in the OS showdown with Walsh, perferring to use private solicitors who specialise in employment law, as they secretely know (as Walsh does) that BALPA are a busted flush.

So write all you like about BASSA, all will be revealed in the next week or so.

SP

Perhaps they avoid it because it does not conform to their blinkered view of the world presented to them by BASSA, such as.........

That is like me saying that most Cabin Crew I speak to don't want to go on strike and don't trust BASSA. Its a true statement but 20 or so cabin crew is hardly a good sample.

0 to be accurate:ok:
Yep its gonna be interesting, would you like to start a sweep stake?