Homophobia towards Cabin Crew
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I've worked for one of Europe's oldest and established airlines for well over a decade.
When I started in the mid-nineties as cabin crew (one out of approx 8.000 cc) I was one of the few straight male flight attendants.
Over the years it shifted and more and more straight guys joined the airline because it was a well paid, fun way of seeing the world.
We also employed gay captains, co-pilots, flight engineers etc, no big deal.
Later on I moved to private/corporate ops as freelance cc.
Albeit also somewhat of a macho culture, trust me, there are numerous gay people driving Challengers, Globals and Falcons.
To me the gay thing doesn't change anything, it is just more commonly found in specific lines of work.
As long as you do well what you are paid for and respect your collegues I don't give a f*ck about your sexual preferences....
When I started in the mid-nineties as cabin crew (one out of approx 8.000 cc) I was one of the few straight male flight attendants.
Over the years it shifted and more and more straight guys joined the airline because it was a well paid, fun way of seeing the world.
We also employed gay captains, co-pilots, flight engineers etc, no big deal.
Later on I moved to private/corporate ops as freelance cc.
Albeit also somewhat of a macho culture, trust me, there are numerous gay people driving Challengers, Globals and Falcons.
To me the gay thing doesn't change anything, it is just more commonly found in specific lines of work.
As long as you do well what you are paid for and respect your collegues I don't give a f*ck about your sexual preferences....
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Slasher,
On your on-line profile you quote that you are a 'pervert'. In adittion you quote 'poofters' and here you are in a room for adults trying to have an adult discussion.
Fortunately, homophobia is now reduced to a trickle and only the remaining 'insecure beings' exist. I say 'beings', because real men have no interest in the actions or manerisms of another man!
On your on-line profile you quote that you are a 'pervert'. In adittion you quote 'poofters' and here you are in a room for adults trying to have an adult discussion.
Fortunately, homophobia is now reduced to a trickle and only the remaining 'insecure beings' exist. I say 'beings', because real men have no interest in the actions or manerisms of another man!
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LBS Writes..... "because real men have no interest in the actions or manerisms of another man!"
Of course homosexuals being very much interested in such things, must be classed as non real men by your own definition, I think you need to consider just what point it is you are trying to make Mr Baker Street
Of course homosexuals being very much interested in such things, must be classed as non real men by your own definition, I think you need to consider just what point it is you are trying to make Mr Baker Street
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First up, I think one should treat every individual on their own merits and not as part of a collective. One can only do that, however, on a personal, one to one basis and obviously not in an emotion free environment like an internet forum.
Second, camp behaviour has been described here as affeminate, which is strange because one simply doesn't see women acting like a camp male. The camp behaviour is exactly that, behaviour. In other words it is a CHOSEN method of acting, there is a choice...just as we all have choices, behaviour is a choice. I have no issue with camp behaviour per say but it can be perceived as negative. I have seen two camp stewards trying desperately to "outcamp" each other on a flight and it was cringeingly embarassing, not funny and made large numbers of passengers visibly uncomfortable.
Next, the gay mafia. There is no doubt that cabin crew is seen as something of a sinecure for gay males, but is this because, for some scientifically unproven reason, gays are particularly good at it? Or can it be that a gay element in a recruitment system tends to lead to a preponderance of like minded recruits? This is quite normal, if I ran cabin crew recruitment there would be a preponderance of gorgeous, bright, funny, tall ladies...it's human nature!
My final ramble is to question whether or not it is simply fashionable, at the moment, to be falling all over ourselves to ensure that every portion of society, whatever their needs and desires, has their full entitlement of human rights? Should felons vote? Should paedophiles be castrated? It appears to depend on what is "trendy" at the time. At one time being gay was perfectly acceptable, at another it is a crime punishable by imprisonment or worse....we seem to be in the former part of thet cycle, but will we stay there?
Second, camp behaviour has been described here as affeminate, which is strange because one simply doesn't see women acting like a camp male. The camp behaviour is exactly that, behaviour. In other words it is a CHOSEN method of acting, there is a choice...just as we all have choices, behaviour is a choice. I have no issue with camp behaviour per say but it can be perceived as negative. I have seen two camp stewards trying desperately to "outcamp" each other on a flight and it was cringeingly embarassing, not funny and made large numbers of passengers visibly uncomfortable.
Next, the gay mafia. There is no doubt that cabin crew is seen as something of a sinecure for gay males, but is this because, for some scientifically unproven reason, gays are particularly good at it? Or can it be that a gay element in a recruitment system tends to lead to a preponderance of like minded recruits? This is quite normal, if I ran cabin crew recruitment there would be a preponderance of gorgeous, bright, funny, tall ladies...it's human nature!
My final ramble is to question whether or not it is simply fashionable, at the moment, to be falling all over ourselves to ensure that every portion of society, whatever their needs and desires, has their full entitlement of human rights? Should felons vote? Should paedophiles be castrated? It appears to depend on what is "trendy" at the time. At one time being gay was perfectly acceptable, at another it is a crime punishable by imprisonment or worse....we seem to be in the former part of thet cycle, but will we stay there?
Old fella
What do you mean by a real man? There are many gay people who fight for their country who I consider real men. There are many gay people who run industries across the globe who show guts and determination, who I consider real men. There are many gay people who are fathers, who are also real men. The list goes on.I wonder if you fit into any of these categories.
Never a truer word spoken!
I don't think they are "real men" either.
Fortunately, homophobia is now reduced to a trickle and only the remaining 'insecure beings' exist.
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Real Men
crew meal. The beauty of living in a democratic society once was that we were all entitled to an opinion. Being a red blooded male whom was a member of the military for over twenty years, and a father of two wonderful children, I may not have run an international industry but I am still what I believe to be a real man. If my opinion offends you that is your problem, not mine. The fact is that I am not allowed to openly say what I think of homosexuals and their lifestyle because I would be open to prosecution, unlike the "gay" and lesbian fraternity whom can say what they like about hetrosexual people with apparent impunity. Because I cannot understand why any man would want to make a partner of another man I am accused of being homophobic. Well, I guess I will just have to wear that mantle. I can assure you there is nothing insecure about me.
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Please spare us all the injured martyr stuff: It is tiresome.
Although the right to free speech is arguably being diminished (almost daily it sometimes seems) , it still exists. However, that does not give everybody the right to say anything about anybody - it never has. There are clear, and legal restrictions on free speech that bind us all. Just as straight people do not necessarily have the right to disparage or abuse gay people, or anybody else, gay people are bound by the same restrictions. It may suit your particular position to believe otherwise, or to believe that a balance has not been achieved, but that remains a matter of fine-tuning the legislation, rather than deleting it.
You may or may not understand what makes somebody attractive to somebody else - That part of the process is irrelevant. You're not required to understand, or even agree - You're simply required to treat your fellow human beings with the respect that they are entitled to (and both morally and legally, they are entitled to it).
It seems to me that we have a problem with terminology in this thread, and the two salient examples are not helping. Firstly, I wish that the word "Homophobia" had never been used. It is highly emotive label and is often used as shorthand for an entire range of experiences and attitudes: As so often, it involves a laziness of thought and expression and a failure to use language with precision. The use of the word guarantees an eventual descent into inflammatory and emotional discussion.
The second example would be the use of the phrase "Real Man": There is of course, no such thing, it is a subjective and meaningless phrase that carries the implication that those who do not fall into that category are in some way diminished i.e. Lesser or False Men. Once again, the lazy use of language in the discussion of an emotive subject leads us inexorably downwards.
For the record, here's where I stand...
I'm straight, but I find the company of excessively camp gay men occasionally tedious, just as I do the company of excessively butch gay women. I also find tedious the company of excessively straight men and women. In short, the people that I like the best are those who allow me to establish a normal social or work relationship with them such that their (and my) sexuality is irrelevant. I don't really refer to my sexual activities or preferences with anybody else, and rather expect that they do the same. Who we choose to fall in love with, or have sex with is not a "lifestyle" choice, it's a "shagging" choice - End of.
Although the right to free speech is arguably being diminished (almost daily it sometimes seems) , it still exists. However, that does not give everybody the right to say anything about anybody - it never has. There are clear, and legal restrictions on free speech that bind us all. Just as straight people do not necessarily have the right to disparage or abuse gay people, or anybody else, gay people are bound by the same restrictions. It may suit your particular position to believe otherwise, or to believe that a balance has not been achieved, but that remains a matter of fine-tuning the legislation, rather than deleting it.
You may or may not understand what makes somebody attractive to somebody else - That part of the process is irrelevant. You're not required to understand, or even agree - You're simply required to treat your fellow human beings with the respect that they are entitled to (and both morally and legally, they are entitled to it).
It seems to me that we have a problem with terminology in this thread, and the two salient examples are not helping. Firstly, I wish that the word "Homophobia" had never been used. It is highly emotive label and is often used as shorthand for an entire range of experiences and attitudes: As so often, it involves a laziness of thought and expression and a failure to use language with precision. The use of the word guarantees an eventual descent into inflammatory and emotional discussion.
The second example would be the use of the phrase "Real Man": There is of course, no such thing, it is a subjective and meaningless phrase that carries the implication that those who do not fall into that category are in some way diminished i.e. Lesser or False Men. Once again, the lazy use of language in the discussion of an emotive subject leads us inexorably downwards.
For the record, here's where I stand...
I'm straight, but I find the company of excessively camp gay men occasionally tedious, just as I do the company of excessively butch gay women. I also find tedious the company of excessively straight men and women. In short, the people that I like the best are those who allow me to establish a normal social or work relationship with them such that their (and my) sexuality is irrelevant. I don't really refer to my sexual activities or preferences with anybody else, and rather expect that they do the same. Who we choose to fall in love with, or have sex with is not a "lifestyle" choice, it's a "shagging" choice - End of.
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Moderator says..." You're simply required to treat your fellow human beings with the respect that they are entitled to (and both morally and legally, they are entitled to it)."
Rubbish, am I required to respect a thief?, a murderer?, or someone I think are themselves morally bereft?
I assure you they aint "entitled in my eyes.
There maybe legislation saying just that, but i damn well aint morally required to respect anybody who hasnt met my personal criteria to earn it
edited to correct formatting
Rubbish, am I required to respect a thief?, a murderer?, or someone I think are themselves morally bereft?
I assure you they aint "entitled in my eyes.
There maybe legislation saying just that, but i damn well aint morally required to respect anybody who hasnt met my personal criteria to earn it
edited to correct formatting
Last edited by Lone_Ranger; 23rd Jun 2012 at 21:18.
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Three pages !!!!!!!
Quite frankly I am astounded that in the modern airline industry a persons sexuality is an issue, it was not an issue in the last three airlines I have worked for and I doubt it will be with my latest employer.
As a captain I am only interested in how a person performs their professional role, who they sleep with is their own business.
How in this day and age this thread has run to three pages & fifty something posts is quite beyond my comprehension.
As a captain I am only interested in how a person performs their professional role, who they sleep with is their own business.
How in this day and age this thread has run to three pages & fifty something posts is quite beyond my comprehension.
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Quite frankly I am astounded that in the modern airline industry a persons sexuality is an issue
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An Issue
TightSlot. It is not an issue to me, I simply do not understand it. That may be irrelevant to you Sir, but not to me. I am not an injured martyr either, however I can assure you that if a "straight" person were to portray a homosexual man or woman in the same way members of the homosexual fraternity portray "straight" people in Sydney's Gay Mardi Gras they would likely be charged with vilification. It is not a level playing field in Australia. There are "gay & lesbian" watering holes in Sydney where non-homosexuals are not admitted. That situation in reverse would not be tolerated.
Last edited by Old Fella; 25th Jun 2012 at 12:59.
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Gutted that they wouldn't let you in Old Fella?
PS I don't see what being in the military has to do with anything - please don't associate your un-officer like views with the rest of us.
PS I don't see what being in the military has to do with anything - please don't associate your un-officer like views with the rest of us.
Last edited by Al Murdoch; 25th Jun 2012 at 13:37.
