Are you cracking up?
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Are you cracking up?
Helen Davey: Cracks in the Cover-Up
I don't think there are any more crew under visible pressure than there was 25 years ago. Alchohol abuse, drug abuse, breakdowns, psychos, etc have always popped up from time to time. Sad but true and probably reflected in the wider non-flying public.
I don't think there are any more crew under visible pressure than there was 25 years ago. Alchohol abuse, drug abuse, breakdowns, psychos, etc have always popped up from time to time. Sad but true and probably reflected in the wider non-flying public.
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Thanks for that Ottergirl.
I canīt remember ever seeing it in the past, yet over these past few years I have had to send 3 FAs home as pax because they had a melt-down on board (arm the opposite door after it was disarmed instead of cross checking it, taking a business class meal trolley into tourist class and start serving in the middle of the cabin, sitting on landing seat without fastening the harness, tipping over a full desert trolley and just walk away from it) It is tragic to watch, traumatic for the colleague concerned and disconcerting for the rest of the crew.
I also hear of pilots with problems and battling short-haul exhaustion.
If somewhat overly dramatic in places
Iīd say that her blog piece is pretty spot on nonetheless.
I canīt remember ever seeing it in the past, yet over these past few years I have had to send 3 FAs home as pax because they had a melt-down on board (arm the opposite door after it was disarmed instead of cross checking it, taking a business class meal trolley into tourist class and start serving in the middle of the cabin, sitting on landing seat without fastening the harness, tipping over a full desert trolley and just walk away from it) It is tragic to watch, traumatic for the colleague concerned and disconcerting for the rest of the crew.
I also hear of pilots with problems and battling short-haul exhaustion.
If somewhat overly dramatic in places
Iīd say that her blog piece is pretty spot on nonetheless.
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Even from the sideline
Aviation is not what it was 25 years ago. Events like Hijackings, bombings, assaults, verbal abuse etc is all happening now days.
On top of that the values that my parents instilled in me have failed me at times when someone has little or no respect for me. So I think today we are all a bit guilty.
I have been confronted with abuse, but tuff skinned I think I have to put up with this for an hour.. he is like that in his real life. At times you have to be tuffed skins however I feel that some people do burn out. And with all the ever changing industry changes at times flight attendants have a hard time keeping both wings in the air so to speak when they see a full cabin with a mind racing trying to work out who is a terrorist, who has a bomb, will I make it home safe.... did I turn the iron off.. At this time of life I feel you need to be grounded.
As for the incidents on flight, it is not uncommon now days for alot of people to have mental illness. People 'look' normal and could be medicated to assist them. I have suffered the effects of mental illness with a flat mate and it is a challenge. Instead of us frowning about mental illness we need to work out what caused it. As for the effected staff talking about crashing or terrorists on board could be a great indicator that they are very concerned about these issues. None of us want to be in a crash, it always has to be in the mind but for some mental illness they can fixate on one issue and over process it. To the point that they are in a panic about a crash that is not happening or a terrorist is Mr Jones in 7C because he has a cane.. it can play tricks on the person resulting in outbursts.
Everyone is different and have different health issues.. I just hope we as an industry support staff who show these signs and assist in keeping their identity.. Sacking them and loosing their identity can make it a lot worse.
Lets help keep every ones wings in the air
On top of that the values that my parents instilled in me have failed me at times when someone has little or no respect for me. So I think today we are all a bit guilty.
I have been confronted with abuse, but tuff skinned I think I have to put up with this for an hour.. he is like that in his real life. At times you have to be tuffed skins however I feel that some people do burn out. And with all the ever changing industry changes at times flight attendants have a hard time keeping both wings in the air so to speak when they see a full cabin with a mind racing trying to work out who is a terrorist, who has a bomb, will I make it home safe.... did I turn the iron off.. At this time of life I feel you need to be grounded.
As for the incidents on flight, it is not uncommon now days for alot of people to have mental illness. People 'look' normal and could be medicated to assist them. I have suffered the effects of mental illness with a flat mate and it is a challenge. Instead of us frowning about mental illness we need to work out what caused it. As for the effected staff talking about crashing or terrorists on board could be a great indicator that they are very concerned about these issues. None of us want to be in a crash, it always has to be in the mind but for some mental illness they can fixate on one issue and over process it. To the point that they are in a panic about a crash that is not happening or a terrorist is Mr Jones in 7C because he has a cane.. it can play tricks on the person resulting in outbursts.
Everyone is different and have different health issues.. I just hope we as an industry support staff who show these signs and assist in keeping their identity.. Sacking them and loosing their identity can make it a lot worse.
Lets help keep every ones wings in the air
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LHLisa, feel free to post that again, but this time without the silly remark about pilots at the end.
And before you get your knickers in a twist, all of us CC Forum Moderators are flight attendants ourselves.
FAs who understand that safe, efficient and pleasant cooperation between cockpit and cabin crew is a two-way street.
LHLisa, feel free to post that again, but this time without the silly remark about pilots at the end.
And before you get your knickers in a twist, all of us CC Forum Moderators are flight attendants ourselves.
FAs who understand that safe, efficient and pleasant cooperation between cockpit and cabin crew is a two-way street.
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Gee. Now that I have been reprimanded I feel like I have passed an important rite of passage here!
As I was saying, jet lag, loneliness, cost cutting by management, air rage by pax (not as bad as that by long haul coworkers usually) increased baggage charges, fewer toilets, bed bugs in the bunks, bed bugs in the hotel beds, being scalded in hotel showers with third world plumbing standards, less crew to more passengers, seniority based work systems that can lend themselves to bullying by those so inclined. Oh, and new improved tea and coffee bodums that require me to wear a steel enforced brace on my hands and arm so I can lift and use them. And trying to wrestle pax to switch off their iPhone s, e readers and the like. Yeah, I think there are a few serious obstacles to us always remaining calm and composed on 3 hours sleep .
That was an extremely well written article. It's quite depressing really. I have night mares about plane crashes. I think all the videos we watch in eps do affect us, and September 11 had a huge impact on most of us. We all deserve a medal I think, and a hug.
As I was saying, jet lag, loneliness, cost cutting by management, air rage by pax (not as bad as that by long haul coworkers usually) increased baggage charges, fewer toilets, bed bugs in the bunks, bed bugs in the hotel beds, being scalded in hotel showers with third world plumbing standards, less crew to more passengers, seniority based work systems that can lend themselves to bullying by those so inclined. Oh, and new improved tea and coffee bodums that require me to wear a steel enforced brace on my hands and arm so I can lift and use them. And trying to wrestle pax to switch off their iPhone s, e readers and the like. Yeah, I think there are a few serious obstacles to us always remaining calm and composed on 3 hours sleep .
That was an extremely well written article. It's quite depressing really. I have night mares about plane crashes. I think all the videos we watch in eps do affect us, and September 11 had a huge impact on most of us. We all deserve a medal I think, and a hug.
Last edited by LHLisa; 19th Apr 2012 at 05:52.
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Gee. Now that I have been reprimanded I feel like I have passed an important rite of passage here!
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At the end my original post, which was deleted, after listing a lot of things I think make our lives very stressful onboard, I mentioned "and those horrible demanding tech crew". It was written very tongue in cheek, which I thought was obvious but I can see that in email and texting there is a danger that the humor can be easily lost. I have quite a few friends who are tech crew, and I have a lot of respect for almost all of them. We have so much in common we would all be silly not to see each other as allies rather than foes. And a lot of them are really funny, and some are really hot too! Again an attempt at humor.
I will not get my knickers in a knot about this, purely because I do not wear knickers.
I will not get my knickers in a knot about this, purely because I do not wear knickers.
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To be fair, I think it it wholey Inappropriate for moderators of this site to use the terminology ' before you get your knickers in a twist' on this site. It is downright patronising and we are all adults here and not expect to have to put up with this kind of childish remark from a moderator. So please, in future mods have some respect for others on this site too. Thank you for your time
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Ramper1
Being new, you probably haven't had to trawl through pages and pages of posts, some very good, some emotional tripe. The mods have seen how quickly people can react to posts so are merely pre empting a response of the latter type.
As a 'tech' crew myself of 20 years plus, I know only too well the importance of mutual respect amongst cabin crew and pilots. The mods response was understandable given the vitriolic diatribes that are often spouted by ignorant individuals in both 'communities'. Prevention better than cure......
LHLisa had the maturity to explain herself. There are a great number who wouldn't. Probably the same group that continually waste the moderators time with text speak, a favourite on these CC forums!
Being new, you probably haven't had to trawl through pages and pages of posts, some very good, some emotional tripe. The mods have seen how quickly people can react to posts so are merely pre empting a response of the latter type.
As a 'tech' crew myself of 20 years plus, I know only too well the importance of mutual respect amongst cabin crew and pilots. The mods response was understandable given the vitriolic diatribes that are often spouted by ignorant individuals in both 'communities'. Prevention better than cure......
LHLisa had the maturity to explain herself. There are a great number who wouldn't. Probably the same group that continually waste the moderators time with text speak, a favourite on these CC forums!
Paxing All Over The World
SLF here.
I read the link in the Huffington Post and thought it VERY good. Not just is it blowing the whistle on crew that have been painted into a corner by the system - but it also applies to many other spheres of work.
I realise, of course, that CC and FC have a unique job description and the demands of both mgmt and pax are an ever closing pincer but a similar squeeze is felt in many other walks of life where the needs of the stock market are put first. It is a daily crime that I have seen in several different companies and countries, during my work in IT.
That article should be stuck under the nose of every board member of every carrier, irrespective of size of operation.
I read the link in the Huffington Post and thought it VERY good. Not just is it blowing the whistle on crew that have been painted into a corner by the system - but it also applies to many other spheres of work.
I realise, of course, that CC and FC have a unique job description and the demands of both mgmt and pax are an ever closing pincer but a similar squeeze is felt in many other walks of life where the needs of the stock market are put first. It is a daily crime that I have seen in several different companies and countries, during my work in IT.
That article should be stuck under the nose of every board member of every carrier, irrespective of size of operation.
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It is a growing problem among low cost crews and I fear it is becoming a ticking time bomb. Why? Because nobody wants to know. Airlines, unions, regulators,politicians even the NHS ( public health service in the UK ) don't want to know.
Traders in the stock market burnout and no-one cares, not very charitable but understandable. Pilot's and cabin crew burnout and still no-one cares, but how much more dangerous that is !!
I have got out of the (pilot) profession now because it was ruining my health in all aspects. Goodness knows what will happen in the near future. Watch this space........................
Traders in the stock market burnout and no-one cares, not very charitable but understandable. Pilot's and cabin crew burnout and still no-one cares, but how much more dangerous that is !!
I have got out of the (pilot) profession now because it was ruining my health in all aspects. Goodness knows what will happen in the near future. Watch this space........................
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Hi-jacking isn't new ground for us in aviation. It was much more common than I think we like to remember in the 60's-70's & even early 80's.
What's changed with them now is the hi-jacker isn't afraid to die along with the hostages & that makes the whole situation even more frightening. I don't think our manuals really reflected that changed in regards to what to expect. Yes we have added security but its still very much tow the line & comply when we know that might not work.
Previous decades hi-jackers would often get on, demanded xyz, get what they want & get off. We all know that's no longer the case since 9-11 and that is truly a situation that terrifies all of us.
What's changed with them now is the hi-jacker isn't afraid to die along with the hostages & that makes the whole situation even more frightening. I don't think our manuals really reflected that changed in regards to what to expect. Yes we have added security but its still very much tow the line & comply when we know that might not work.
Previous decades hi-jackers would often get on, demanded xyz, get what they want & get off. We all know that's no longer the case since 9-11 and that is truly a situation that terrifies all of us.
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The big factor here is when a pilot or FA has a meltdown at work it is very public and ALWAYS in the news. No body wants to hear about the factory worker who had a meltdown and now the widget production line is two days behind schedule, but if it were airline staff and the flight was an hour late - headline news.
FA's are selected for their ability to deal with stressful situations - so generally cope quite well, up to a point. By the time they reach their limit the stress burden is so great that the meltdown will be spectacular (for all the wrong reasons)
If you are having a few troubles then for god sake talk about it - don't just keep shaking the champagne bottle and hoping the cork will stay on!
If you need a script for some "happy pills" that may (but not necessarily) affect your medical and you are worried about being unfit for duty then don't be afraid to go to another Dr. A correctly diagnosed and appropriately treated problem is much less risk than going undiagnosed and untreated until.
After all wouldn't you expect the engineer to fix the crack in the turbine blade (that didn't fail on the last flight) rather than just pretend it wasn't there and 'hope it don't fail' on the next.
Watch out for your mates and lets take care of each other.
FA's are selected for their ability to deal with stressful situations - so generally cope quite well, up to a point. By the time they reach their limit the stress burden is so great that the meltdown will be spectacular (for all the wrong reasons)
If you are having a few troubles then for god sake talk about it - don't just keep shaking the champagne bottle and hoping the cork will stay on!
If you need a script for some "happy pills" that may (but not necessarily) affect your medical and you are worried about being unfit for duty then don't be afraid to go to another Dr. A correctly diagnosed and appropriately treated problem is much less risk than going undiagnosed and untreated until.
After all wouldn't you expect the engineer to fix the crack in the turbine blade (that didn't fail on the last flight) rather than just pretend it wasn't there and 'hope it don't fail' on the next.
Watch out for your mates and lets take care of each other.
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But thats the problem, its not as easy as you make it out to be off just going to the Dr & getting the "happy pills".
Its the fact that by the sheer fact of going to ask for help that Pilots are grounded for up to a year!
I've seen Cabin Crew in the UK being disciplined for taking time off for depression and even seen crew being let go under the capability act by saying they are no longer fit to do the job!!
The whole way the airlines deal with mental health in both the UK & US needs looking at.
In several EU countries it is illegal for a crew member to be disciplined for being sick. You can be sacked for it in the UK!
Its the fact that by the sheer fact of going to ask for help that Pilots are grounded for up to a year!
I've seen Cabin Crew in the UK being disciplined for taking time off for depression and even seen crew being let go under the capability act by saying they are no longer fit to do the job!!
The whole way the airlines deal with mental health in both the UK & US needs looking at.
In several EU countries it is illegal for a crew member to be disciplined for being sick. You can be sacked for it in the UK!
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I am a crew member who has used happy pills ( but trust me they are not so happy when you are trying to have a good time between the sheets !)
I am deeply disturbed to hear that such intense discrimination and scrutiny is applied to tech crew and cabin crew who speak up about being human . It takes a lot of courage to admit to oneself that you are not coping as well as you would like , let alone admit it to anyone else or your employer.
As Australian based cabin crew my employer has been ok so far , I am fearful at times though that my "condition" could compromise my employment. Touch wood my managers have been good so far.
I believe attention needs to be drawn to this legalised discrimination in as many arena s as possible. People need to have the confidence to speak out about this.
I am deeply disturbed to hear that such intense discrimination and scrutiny is applied to tech crew and cabin crew who speak up about being human . It takes a lot of courage to admit to oneself that you are not coping as well as you would like , let alone admit it to anyone else or your employer.
As Australian based cabin crew my employer has been ok so far , I am fearful at times though that my "condition" could compromise my employment. Touch wood my managers have been good so far.
I believe attention needs to be drawn to this legalised discrimination in as many arena s as possible. People need to have the confidence to speak out about this.
Last edited by LHLisa; 25th Apr 2012 at 07:26.
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Not cabin crew nor flight deck so I would quite understand if my submission is stopped. Background is ex RAF,ex psychiatric nursing and a one time passenger to most spots on the globe. Back in the days when I flew out to Singapore before being posted to Borneo,flying for all was a dream. British Eagle Brittania turboprop. Ok, took over thirty hours to get there with the stops but,....! Comfortable seats,room to lay them back for a sleep and the soporific drone of those engines. Cabin crew could and did lower the cots at the back and kip down. In short, there was room to move. I no longer fly now.The endless airport time, queues,cramming of seats....and...a seat made for a kiddy size rse! Limited toilet and fellow passengers which really can test the patience of a saint. The last time I flew,the cabin staff trolley advanced down the narrow aisle with at least four people following trying to get to the overused toilet. Two kids behind me insisted on pushing the call button then sitting there with an inane grin on their silly faces. All pressure, pressure.....! When I popped into the "we room" the two drunken women outside then began knocking on the door with less than feminine remarks made! On return to my seat my wife caused me to look across the aisle. A couple there also well soused, were simulating a sex act! Having been summoned by a mother with children, the steward in a correct manner attended. Met with foul language and abuse.
So, you people who have the job of seeing to the general public in such a confined and testing environment...take a bow. I think you do very well indeed. If the pressure in you is rising, dont isolate yourself...find common ground with others, talk,share,find an outlet. Remember, any pills and potions you take are only a temporary prop. At some time, that prop must come away and self must once again take over. Lastly if I may, largely when an airline is judged, the public dont highlight the pilot, or the airline livery, they base it on the cabin crew...the ambassadors. My apologies if my post is considered intrusive.
So, you people who have the job of seeing to the general public in such a confined and testing environment...take a bow. I think you do very well indeed. If the pressure in you is rising, dont isolate yourself...find common ground with others, talk,share,find an outlet. Remember, any pills and potions you take are only a temporary prop. At some time, that prop must come away and self must once again take over. Lastly if I may, largely when an airline is judged, the public dont highlight the pilot, or the airline livery, they base it on the cabin crew...the ambassadors. My apologies if my post is considered intrusive.
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So, you people who have the job of seeing to the general public in such a confined and testing environment...take a bow. I think you do very well indeed. If the pressure in you is rising, dont isolate yourself...find common ground with others, talk,share,find an outlet. Remember, any pills and potions you take are only a temporary prop. At some time, that prop must come away and self must once again take over. Lastly if I may, largely when an airline is judged, the public dont highlight the pilot, or the airline livery, they base it on the cabin crew...the ambassadors. My apologies if my post is considered intrusive
In my experience cabin crew tend to be well capable of expressing themselves with others, sometimes too much so, but are generally well balanced, stable and pragmatic individuals. It is when an individual goes outside accepted boundaries that the microcosm that is airline life comes under greater scrutiny. Airlines are beloved by the media because it is such fertile ground for sensational stories...."Stewardess in galley sex crash probe horror!".
I also agree with your assertion that airlines are judged on their front line, customer facing staff, pilots come under more intense scrutiny when things go very wrong, see AF447.
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Lancastrian, I think your comments hit the spot. I'm also not CC, but with none of your qualifications, just a former airline & now corporate pilot & SLF. When observing the CC & the conditions they have to work under, I wonder why many of them stick with the job in its current form.
But what can be done to improve the lot of cabin crew? Lobbying the unions to lobby the airline management to improve the flight time limitations & night stop conditions? Lobbying the unions to lobby the airline management to improve support for staff? Posting on Pprune is great as it shows there is a need for these problems to be addressed, but it doesn't actually take it to the next level - that has to come from those directly involved.
But what can be done to improve the lot of cabin crew? Lobbying the unions to lobby the airline management to improve the flight time limitations & night stop conditions? Lobbying the unions to lobby the airline management to improve support for staff? Posting on Pprune is great as it shows there is a need for these problems to be addressed, but it doesn't actually take it to the next level - that has to come from those directly involved.