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A and C,
The cabin crew did have changes ( crew numbers reduced) and made savings for the company and also all new crew are on different terms and conditions.
Even thought these changes happened with BASSA fighting all the way they never the less have taken place and many would say that cabin crew have suffered more than many other groups.
It does not sound like you actually work for BA and as such , I guess you gain all your info from here. As for unpleasant posts, I don't think you can lay that at the feet of only cabin crew as looking back through this particular thread it appears that some pilots have not moved on either unfortunately.
As I and some others have said, many crew do go out together, it's just that this particular website seems to attract people from both sides that seem to enjoy causing trouble. Flight crew and cabin crew on ALL fleets do go out
together still. Only a few bitter people on each side don't and unfortunately,
lots of them post venom on here too.
I will also add that most crew have a great relationship with our engineers and your version of how cabin crew treat engineers seems very strange indeed! Sometimes I truly wonder if I work for a different airline to some of you because I have never seen anyone being anything but nice to engineers.
The cabin crew did have changes ( crew numbers reduced) and made savings for the company and also all new crew are on different terms and conditions.
Even thought these changes happened with BASSA fighting all the way they never the less have taken place and many would say that cabin crew have suffered more than many other groups.
It does not sound like you actually work for BA and as such , I guess you gain all your info from here. As for unpleasant posts, I don't think you can lay that at the feet of only cabin crew as looking back through this particular thread it appears that some pilots have not moved on either unfortunately.
As I and some others have said, many crew do go out together, it's just that this particular website seems to attract people from both sides that seem to enjoy causing trouble. Flight crew and cabin crew on ALL fleets do go out
together still. Only a few bitter people on each side don't and unfortunately,
lots of them post venom on here too.
I will also add that most crew have a great relationship with our engineers and your version of how cabin crew treat engineers seems very strange indeed! Sometimes I truly wonder if I work for a different airline to some of you because I have never seen anyone being anything but nice to engineers.
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Betty
If you take the time to read my post you will see that I said I worked for BA some time back and most of the cabin crew were very pleasant to work with but as I said SOME were downright rude and considered themselfs some sort of superior race apart. If this had been one or two individuals I would have dismissed these people as being just strange however at the time this was a substantial minority mostly from long haul.
I can't say things have improved much after the strike. With the action being taken in the high court against BASSA following racist abuse and other harassment issues that have yet to run their full course in the courts.
I do observe the situation from outside BA but my information comes from sorces within engineering, flight crew, cabin crew and a few other sorces. While not wanting to pre judge the out comings of future events I do expect that most BA cabin crew will be embaressed by the some of the things that have been done by BASSA members over the last year.
I can't say things have improved much after the strike. With the action being taken in the high court against BASSA following racist abuse and other harassment issues that have yet to run their full course in the courts.
I do observe the situation from outside BA but my information comes from sorces within engineering, flight crew, cabin crew and a few other sorces. While not wanting to pre judge the out comings of future events I do expect that most BA cabin crew will be embaressed by the some of the things that have been done by BASSA members over the last year.
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Well you are obviously very welcome to your views but as you don't actually work for BA now, it's hard to understand how you can have such strong opinions about something you have such limited knowledge about.
I tend to treat people as I find them and not prejudge people because of the job that they do. I find that the majority of cabin crew and pilots are really nice people and it is a shame that people reading threads like this might actually imagine that we all hate each other because as I have said, the reality of working out on line is not like that at all.
I tend to treat people as I find them and not prejudge people because of the job that they do. I find that the majority of cabin crew and pilots are really nice people and it is a shame that people reading threads like this might actually imagine that we all hate each other because as I have said, the reality of working out on line is not like that at all.
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Betty
The reason that I hold such strong opinions is that I the actions of a few BASSA members have put the jobs of a lot of people at risk and now the dispute is over they are intimidating and bullying people who did not hold the same opinions that they did.
In my days in BA engineering after an industrial dispute all of the staff and the union officials had a deliberate policy of "kiss & make up", this is not the message that some in BASSA are sending out.
I can't go into the cases of bullying from BASSA that I know about as this might prejudice legal action that may come to pass but I would stress that these cases are orchestrated by only a few people.
This bullying simply would not happen in all the other airlines I have worked for and the attitude of these people must be a CRM issue if not one of flight safety................fortunately they are a minority and don't reflect too badly on the BA operation as a whole.
In my days in BA engineering after an industrial dispute all of the staff and the union officials had a deliberate policy of "kiss & make up", this is not the message that some in BASSA are sending out.
I can't go into the cases of bullying from BASSA that I know about as this might prejudice legal action that may come to pass but I would stress that these cases are orchestrated by only a few people.
This bullying simply would not happen in all the other airlines I have worked for and the attitude of these people must be a CRM issue if not one of flight safety................fortunately they are a minority and don't reflect too badly on the BA operation as a whole.
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Look A and C,I am really NOT a BASSA supporter at all, far from it, but all this alleged bullying happened during the strike. Reading these threads and listening to some other posters on other sites, I can understand why you believe it is happening right now but it is not.
Most crew and pilots have moved on and I find it really strange that people that do not work for BA seem to feel they are experts on this matter.
The majority want to move on and the majority are getting on fine.
That is about all I am going to say on this matter. People can believe me or they can carry on peddling nasty half thruths all over the place. It's up to you.
I personally think that some people enjoy themselves so much doing this that they carry the nastiness on, even though the majority have moved on.
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BG.
The point is that BASSA arent moving on.
They are not respecting the agreement they recommended to their members and themselves signed. I think that is worthy of discussion.
BASSA still (unbelievably) represents circa 10000 BA crew. Those members are responsible for their "representatives" actions. If those 10000 crew disagree with the BASSA leadership then they need to either make themselves heard or resign. Continually calling for everyone else to move on when BASSA produces yet another malicious and infantile statement (this isnt the only one this week) just doesnt cut it. If they didnt print the stuff we wouldnt be here talking about it.
(I know you arent a member BG)
The point is that BASSA arent moving on.
They are not respecting the agreement they recommended to their members and themselves signed. I think that is worthy of discussion.
BASSA still (unbelievably) represents circa 10000 BA crew. Those members are responsible for their "representatives" actions. If those 10000 crew disagree with the BASSA leadership then they need to either make themselves heard or resign. Continually calling for everyone else to move on when BASSA produces yet another malicious and infantile statement (this isnt the only one this week) just doesnt cut it. If they didnt print the stuff we wouldnt be here talking about it.
(I know you arent a member BG)
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Seems the bassa leadership never change. They have once again got their facts totally wrong and are attempting to derail what is actually a very good course.
I have attented the course. It consisted of about 6 pilots and 30 cabin crew. At no point were we lectured to on how to behave. It was an open discussion forum where we were asked what could be done to improve the working environment between the various groups.
The suggestions and points came from both pilots and mainly crew. No suggestions at all from the trainers.
The reason for the course:
Clearly there are hostilities and divisions within BA and this has now been accepted by a management team that have decided the best way forward is to be honest about the cause and to get both pilots and crew to sit around a table and move forward.
I have attented the course. It consisted of about 6 pilots and 30 cabin crew. At no point were we lectured to on how to behave. It was an open discussion forum where we were asked what could be done to improve the working environment between the various groups.
The suggestions and points came from both pilots and mainly crew. No suggestions at all from the trainers.
The reason for the course:
Clearly there are hostilities and divisions within BA and this has now been accepted by a management team that have decided the best way forward is to be honest about the cause and to get both pilots and crew to sit around a table and move forward.
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Hi Betty, Hope you are well.
I recently operated a trip and all the crew including our pilots went out for a drink.
One girl, who did nothing but winge about flightdeck all the way there refused to come out as the pilots were there.
She was quickly told by the CSD to stay in her room and mope if she wanted.
The bizarre thing is she commented on the way home how she hoped to get a flight deck jump seat on her return commute to Europe..
It beggers belief!!
I recently operated a trip and all the crew including our pilots went out for a drink.
One girl, who did nothing but winge about flightdeck all the way there refused to come out as the pilots were there.
She was quickly told by the CSD to stay in her room and mope if she wanted.
The bizarre thing is she commented on the way home how she hoped to get a flight deck jump seat on her return commute to Europe..
It beggers belief!!
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Hi Miss BA,
Hope you are well too.
Yes there are a few that have not let go and it is sad but I find the the vast majority have moved on, just a few on both sides of the door carry grudges and it is a shame but I don't find them typical. Most don't even want to talk about it and just want to have a nice flight.
Unfortunately these people that hold grudges are the ones to be found spouting off on social networks ( us excluded of course!!!)and it does give the wrong impression that we all hate each other and that is just not so.
Most of us are just trying to move on and enjoy what is left of our jobs and make the most of our working lives. I still love my job and just wish that people on BOTH sides would just stop trying to aggravate each other.
Anyway take care and happy flying.
Hope you are well too.
Yes there are a few that have not let go and it is sad but I find the the vast majority have moved on, just a few on both sides of the door carry grudges and it is a shame but I don't find them typical. Most don't even want to talk about it and just want to have a nice flight.
Unfortunately these people that hold grudges are the ones to be found spouting off on social networks ( us excluded of course!!!)and it does give the wrong impression that we all hate each other and that is just not so.
Most of us are just trying to move on and enjoy what is left of our jobs and make the most of our working lives. I still love my job and just wish that people on BOTH sides would just stop trying to aggravate each other.
Anyway take care and happy flying.
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Hotel Mode hits the nail on the head.
Remember the return of full staff travel was actually conditional on BASSA changing its behaviours and modernising its approach to industrial relations. One issue specifically highlighted was the need for BASSA communications to be more accurate and balanced than they have been.
There has been absolutely no evidence of BASSA changing its ways and there have been comms far worse than the one highlighted in this thread. And I doubt those who have seen these "we promise to get along in the future" agreements before are hardly surprised by it.
The fact is BASSA remains hugely influential over a large proportion of LHR crew so what's the company going to do about it?
Remember the return of full staff travel was actually conditional on BASSA changing its behaviours and modernising its approach to industrial relations. One issue specifically highlighted was the need for BASSA communications to be more accurate and balanced than they have been.
There has been absolutely no evidence of BASSA changing its ways and there have been comms far worse than the one highlighted in this thread. And I doubt those who have seen these "we promise to get along in the future" agreements before are hardly surprised by it.
The fact is BASSA remains hugely influential over a large proportion of LHR crew so what's the company going to do about it?
Last edited by LD12986; 27th Oct 2011 at 15:26.
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Betty
I may be outside the company but I know people from inside BA who are getting the bullying treatment from those in BASSA, the way some people are being treated is cruel and intimidating.
The victims are the first to admit that this intimidation is from a small minority but when you can't go to work without fear of intimidation & bullying it has a very corrosive effect on people, I had lunch in a pub a week or so back with a BA cabin crew member who I worked with at another airline and this person felt that some of the BASSA types would stop at nothing to destroy their carreer.
I would like to say more but as this is likely to end in court I can't because of the legal actions pending, I am very pleased that you think that things in BA are improving I can't help feeling this is good for BA as a whole but if you are the target of the vindictive people in BASSA the picture looks very different.
I suspect that when the full details of the actions of a minority in BASSA are made public in court you to will be appalled by actions of some individuals.
As some above have said BASSA need to move on from this unfortunate episode, when I was in engineering after a three week strike both sides were keen to move on ......... Those running BASSA should be keen to follow this policy.
The victims are the first to admit that this intimidation is from a small minority but when you can't go to work without fear of intimidation & bullying it has a very corrosive effect on people, I had lunch in a pub a week or so back with a BA cabin crew member who I worked with at another airline and this person felt that some of the BASSA types would stop at nothing to destroy their carreer.
I would like to say more but as this is likely to end in court I can't because of the legal actions pending, I am very pleased that you think that things in BA are improving I can't help feeling this is good for BA as a whole but if you are the target of the vindictive people in BASSA the picture looks very different.
I suspect that when the full details of the actions of a minority in BASSA are made public in court you to will be appalled by actions of some individuals.
As some above have said BASSA need to move on from this unfortunate episode, when I was in engineering after a three week strike both sides were keen to move on ......... Those running BASSA should be keen to follow this policy.
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A and C,
We all know what action you are talking about and this is old news and relates to things that happened a long time ago now.
No one is being bullied in the way you suggest at the moment unless you think that this silly message from BASSA is bullying.
The way you write your posts and portray the situation sounds like you are rehashing old news. The reality of working for BA is nothing like how you portray.
If you are someone who does not work for BA now as you say yourself, all that you say is just hearsay. No doubt gleaned from other forums.
Most people want to move on now. Not continually rehash stuff from the past.
I agree with the sentiment that BASSA needs to move on and stop all their childish messages but posting them and going on and on about court cases is not helping anyone.
We all know what action you are talking about and this is old news and relates to things that happened a long time ago now.
No one is being bullied in the way you suggest at the moment unless you think that this silly message from BASSA is bullying.
The way you write your posts and portray the situation sounds like you are rehashing old news. The reality of working for BA is nothing like how you portray.
If you are someone who does not work for BA now as you say yourself, all that you say is just hearsay. No doubt gleaned from other forums.
Most people want to move on now. Not continually rehash stuff from the past.
I agree with the sentiment that BASSA needs to move on and stop all their childish messages but posting them and going on and on about court cases is not helping anyone.
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You do have to wonder a bit about the number of people on PPRuNe who appear willing (and who have the time and energy) to jump on the same old bandwagon, time after time.
BASSA, who apparently never miss an opportunity to miss an opportunity have once again gone into print with infantile comments, having learned nothing of value from recent events: They are representative of a dwindling number of people who are determined to preserve an outdated lifestyle, replete with Spanish Practises for some of their members, at the expense of other workers in the company. They consistently attempt to do this with remarkable inefficiency. In a sane and just world, their own members would rise up in outrage at the raw industrial incompetence that those they pay to represent them choose to demonstrate so frequently.
This isn't news, or even new - Endless repetition doesn't make it so, or make it interesting. The BASSA dinosaur is simply behaving in the only primitive way that it knows how - It is already dead at the tail, but the message has not yet reached the small brain at the head.
The future of this troubled company (whatever that may be) lies with people such as Betty girl, and there are more of them than some of you know: Most humans do not crave unnecessary conflict and will go to great lengths to avoid it. The endless re-fighting of the same old battles by the same soldiers tends, inevitably, to dilute morale and suits the armchair warrior more than those presently serving.
Chill out folks - BASSA does another stupid thing just isn't worth your time and energy.
BASSA, who apparently never miss an opportunity to miss an opportunity have once again gone into print with infantile comments, having learned nothing of value from recent events: They are representative of a dwindling number of people who are determined to preserve an outdated lifestyle, replete with Spanish Practises for some of their members, at the expense of other workers in the company. They consistently attempt to do this with remarkable inefficiency. In a sane and just world, their own members would rise up in outrage at the raw industrial incompetence that those they pay to represent them choose to demonstrate so frequently.
This isn't news, or even new - Endless repetition doesn't make it so, or make it interesting. The BASSA dinosaur is simply behaving in the only primitive way that it knows how - It is already dead at the tail, but the message has not yet reached the small brain at the head.
The future of this troubled company (whatever that may be) lies with people such as Betty girl, and there are more of them than some of you know: Most humans do not crave unnecessary conflict and will go to great lengths to avoid it. The endless re-fighting of the same old battles by the same soldiers tends, inevitably, to dilute morale and suits the armchair warrior more than those presently serving.
Chill out folks - BASSA does another stupid thing just isn't worth your time and energy.
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Tightslot.
I am sure that what you say is true in that these sort of thing happened some while ago. The fact that Bassa still publish the sort of comms today that is the subject of this discussion, proves that they are not adhering to their commitment to become more professional in their comms. These comms are taken as encouragement by the few that still believe they are always in the right no matter what means they use even today.
If the union are not complying with their end of the agreement, where does it leave the agreement?
If the union are not complying with their end of the agreement, where does it leave the agreement?
The bizarre thing is she commented on the way home how she hoped to get a flight deck jump seat on her return commute to Europe..
It beggers belief!!
It beggers belief!!
My wife was accompanying me, using a staff ticket that I had purchased, but she told me that there were 5 seats on the flight deck and so I could take my wife and her partner. I explained that I had a supernumary crew member under training, i.e 4 crew and my wife, but she was having none of that, her partner was also 'staff' so had priority over my wife - she said. ( 9/11 was but a gleam in someones' eyes at that time, airline travel was much less regulated )
In the event both got a pax. seat - no problem - but it was her attitude that surprised me, with people like that is it any wonder that opinions are formed ?
Who would you have left behind ?
Last edited by ExSp33db1rd; 27th Oct 2011 at 21:09.
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I agree that definitely should BASSA keep their promise as to what they presented and encouraged to us members as to what to do. They have failed at some accounts, yes.
On the other hand, I, and many others, am very disappointed with many of our pilots who interfeared in our dispute by volunteering to do our job. Perhaps they should have thought twice before deciding to cross the line.
Glad to see that you are enjoying to work with MF and LGW unless the more experienced of us at LHR.
On the other hand, I, and many others, am very disappointed with many of our pilots who interfeared in our dispute by volunteering to do our job. Perhaps they should have thought twice before deciding to cross the line.
Glad to see that you are enjoying to work with MF and LGW unless the more experienced of us at LHR.
The cabin crew did have changes ( crew numbers reduced) and made savings for the company and also all new crew are on different terms and conditions.
On the other hand, I, and many others, am very disappointed with many of our pilots who interfeared in our dispute by volunteering to do our job. Perhaps they should have thought twice before deciding to cross the line.
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QUOTE""The cabin crew did have changes ( crew numbers reduced) and made savings for the company and also all new crew are on different terms and conditions.
Even thought these changes happened with BASSA fighting all the way they never the less have taken place and many would say that cabin crew have suffered more than many other groups."" QUOTE
Don't selectively quote just one sentence. As you can clearly see my following sentence did take account of the fact that BASSA fought the changes but they never the less have taken place and BA have made huge savings from one crew member off every aircraft, reduced purser numbers plus new entrants joining on lesser terms and conditions. I only mentioned this fact because one of our less well informed posters was suggesting that cabin crew had not made any contribution!
This is going to be my last post on this because this really is just a rehash of the last two years and nothing has changed. Same old, same old ! Same views and bigoted attitudes from both sides. I have moved on, I suggest you all do too and just ignore BASSA because that's what most crew do now anyway bar a few nutters!
Even thought these changes happened with BASSA fighting all the way they never the less have taken place and many would say that cabin crew have suffered more than many other groups."" QUOTE
Don't selectively quote just one sentence. As you can clearly see my following sentence did take account of the fact that BASSA fought the changes but they never the less have taken place and BA have made huge savings from one crew member off every aircraft, reduced purser numbers plus new entrants joining on lesser terms and conditions. I only mentioned this fact because one of our less well informed posters was suggesting that cabin crew had not made any contribution!
This is going to be my last post on this because this really is just a rehash of the last two years and nothing has changed. Same old, same old ! Same views and bigoted attitudes from both sides. I have moved on, I suggest you all do too and just ignore BASSA because that's what most crew do now anyway bar a few nutters!
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Betty girl
You are just running away from the truth, the person I know (who I rated as one of the best SCCM's that I have had the pleasure to fly with) and a totaly reliable person has suffered intimidation within the last month.
This is not as you put it hearsay, you can see the fear in this persons eyes when they talk about going to work.
I have to ask you just how would you feel if it was you who was on the receiving end of this ?
BA has a problem with these BASSA pepole, it may be a very small minority but for the people who are subject to this intimidation it is a very big problem. I am sure that a less robust person without the support nework that is available to my friend could quite easily be driven suicide by the type of intimidation that has been exhibited over the last few weeks.
This is not as you put it hearsay, you can see the fear in this persons eyes when they talk about going to work.
I have to ask you just how would you feel if it was you who was on the receiving end of this ?
BA has a problem with these BASSA pepole, it may be a very small minority but for the people who are subject to this intimidation it is a very big problem. I am sure that a less robust person without the support nework that is available to my friend could quite easily be driven suicide by the type of intimidation that has been exhibited over the last few weeks.
Last edited by A and C; 27th Oct 2011 at 23:07.