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How is it on BA Mixed Fleet, are you enjoying it?

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How is it on BA Mixed Fleet, are you enjoying it?

Old 30th Dec 2010, 11:58
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Angel How is it on BA Mixed Fleet, are you enjoying it?

Hi Mixed Fleeters,
I don't know if any of you read PPRuNe but I was wondering if you are enjoying working on Mixed Fleet.

I realise it is early days but is it as you expected it to be?

I hear rumors about how tired some of you are with only one day off after some long haul flights. Is this the norm or is this unusual?

I hear that the new Haneda route is going to be a Mixed Fleet route. Are you pleased about that?

I personally am worried for you all because that is a long flight and would be very hard if you had just done a Las Vegus and only had one day off after before being required to do the Haneda. Are my concerns unwarranted or are any of you worried too?

Anyway just wanted to hear from the horses mouth and not galley fm on all your veiws about if Mixed Fleet is all you had hoped it would be.

Thanks.
Betty girl is offline  
Old 30th Dec 2010, 13:16
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Join Date: Mar 2008
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I am enjoying MF so far, the atmosphere on board is far better than it ever was when I was a temp on WorldWide. I actually feel like I belong onboard and don't have to justify myself to the rest of the crew for my existence.

Yes there are a few teething issues regarding several things, but hopefully we can work those out, like you say Betty, it is early days. I'm looking forward to Haneda, and I am surprised that we have gained so many routes as quickly as we have, but I for one am certainly not looking forward to doing a Vegas followed by Haneda, especially with only one day off inbetween, it'll be a killer!
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Old 30th Dec 2010, 15:11
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Angel

Thanks for your reply Welshboy, I am glad you are enjoying it.

Yes, I think it was bad the way some of you temps were treated by some crew, some of them did not have the sense to see that we have often used temps in the past and it had nothing to do with the dispute, other than BA not wanting to put you all on the, then, current contract.

Anyway I hope it is good for you and you get speedy promotion and all your teething problems get sorted.

Good luck.
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Old 30th Dec 2010, 15:46
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Las - Hnd

I would have thought it would be highly unlikely that this combination would be rostered given the days off entitlement after a longhaul trip, there are plenty of shorthaul routes on/coming to MF.

I know these combinations are flown by Flight Crew but that is primarily because they CHOOSE to, it's not the company being cruel!

WB1982, glad that you are back in BA and enjoying your new position.
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Old 30th Dec 2010, 16:05
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Angel

Flaps33,
That's the whole point, on mixed fleet they just get the legal minimum and bid for their days off and trips.

It is possible that if your bid was quite general or you made a mess of it you could easily end up with that combination. You could also of course specifically bid for days off after each long haul flight but the bid system being used by them is the same as the one used by us on E/F and it works by trying to give everyone 60% satisfaction and therefore what you ask for is not always what you get.

Already some Mixed Fleet crew have had a run of 3 Las Vegas/Denver flights in a row with only one day off in between each.

That's why I asked the question because I wanted to hear facts from actual M/F crew and separate it from galley fm.
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Old 1st Jan 2011, 10:24
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Angel

Just wanted to check it out with one of you, is it true that you don't necessarily get a day off after a NBO trip.

I have read somewhere that a M/F crew member said that she had been rostered the following, NBO trip, BUD there and back, NBO trip, I day off, Bud there and back, Las Vegus trip, 2 days off.

So no days off after the NBO! Is this right and is something being said about this because you will all be so tired after this kind of rostering.

Also one crew member has said he has been rostered 96 block hours in one month and is already worrying about what will happen when he reaches 900 hours before a 12 month period has elapsed. Is this normal rostering for M/F?
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Old 1st Jan 2011, 22:39
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I'm afraid to say it's all true re. the above! We are literally working to the bare minimum rest. Luckily I don't have a Nairobi on my roster, but I do know of others who have it like you mentioned Betty. We can only hope that crew are feeding back there rosters to their managers to look at because, as you say, this kind of rostering really can't go on long term. I have 143 hours rostered in January, so I am very concerned about reaching 900 hours pretty quickly!!!! I love being on Mixed Fleet, but something does need to be done about the rostering as i know a lot of crew are pretty unhappy with it.
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Old 1st Jan 2011, 23:02
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Out of interest flight crew have a limit of 100 flying hours per 28 days.
Is this not the same for cabin crew? If it is the case, 143 flying hours is a bit excessive during a 31 day period... anyone have any idea?
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Old 2nd Jan 2011, 08:48
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JPM's have an absolute limit of 100 flying hours in a 28 day period.

I believe the Mixed Fleet contract allows:
180 duty hours in February
192 duty hours in all other Months
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Old 2nd Jan 2011, 08:59
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The limitation of 100 hours in 28 days applies to Flight Crew only and is an ANO limitation. Cabin Crew hours are limited by the Civil Aviation (Working Time) Regulations in the first instance which has absolute limits of 2000 hours in 12 months not exceeding 900 hours flight time. The current scheme duty hour limit for a BA Cabin Crew member over a 4 week period is an average of 190 hours and an absolute maximum of 210 hours so this roster is well within what's allowed. Mixed Fleet may have different limits as shown above.

That's not to say that it is a sustainable roster in the long-term, I've been told that about 4 or 5 years ago BA Cabin Crew employed at Gatwick had a change to their rostering designed to get more out of them. It did but at the expense of many crew reaching the 900 hour limit, being unable to fly and consequently crew shortages resulted. Much of BA's Gatwick program had to be sub-chartered to several operators (Astraeus and Monarch spring to mind) for several months, the problem was compounded by crew resigning as they couldn't afford to live on the Gatwick basic wage.
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Old 2nd Jan 2011, 09:49
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Welshboy1982

May I ask how many days off you have on your Jan roster?
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Old 2nd Jan 2011, 10:56
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Angel

Thanks Welshboy.
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Old 3rd Jan 2011, 22:18
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Student in debt, you correctly refer to the start of single fleet at gatwick.

The difference this time is that new fleeters can be used for ground duties when 900 hours is achieved. And at worst they can be stood down with no pay. The 900 hours is calculated on a rolling basis so a couple of weeks in the terminal or at home unpaid should reduce the average.
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Old 4th Jan 2011, 17:24
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I had 9 days off rostered, although I've ended up with 10 days off now after picking a trip with an extra day off from standby.

PC767 - we will not be working in the terminals. This is not what is meant by ground duties. Ground duties refers to training, sep and such like. Not working in a terminal. I'm sure if we were grounded for whatever reason, we probably could do, in exactly the same way that the crew on WW and EF do right now.
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Old 4th Jan 2011, 20:20
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I am really enjoying myself. Never flown before so have nothing to compare it to, mind.
Did my first LH flight to LAS…. Knocked my socks off how tired I was once I’d landed… then we got stuck for 5 nights – so I got some sleep and had great fun!
I like SH best – I originally applied for EF so knew I would. So far all the crew I have met have been very supportive and good fun.
My roster this month is ok… I have a busy week with NBO, PRG, BUD and LAS with no days off in-between so will be very tired. I have 10 days off this month and only 2 days of sby. Also similar to the example you used. But I have emailed my manager to see what they can do. I have finally worked out how to bid so will have some nice PRG and BUD night stops in Feb with any luck : )
As a general rule we are having 2 days after LAS, DEN but none after NBO - Which I can’t seem to get my head around. Time will tell I suppose?


Anyway, happy New Year and safe flying!
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Old 4th Jan 2011, 20:51
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Welshboy, I don't know if I hope you are correct or not. It would seem that at present 900hrs is going to be achieved before a rolling 12 months is achieved. Not working in the terminals would leave BA with the worst option - that being to stand you down with no pay.

Have BA provided a written interpretation of Sect 5 of the Mixed Fleet contract, sub headed, Job title, duties and flexibility. In particular the comment '...it is an express condition of your employment that you agree to undertake any other duties or roles that the company may reasonably assign to you from time to time on either a temporary or permanent basis. These may include a ground role at the company....'
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Old 4th Jan 2011, 21:18
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I think the second paragraph of section 11 is very illuminating.

Basically it says that if the 900 block flying hour limit is increased by regulatory change, then that is automatically incorporated into your contract.

Currently, changes are being proposed that would increase to 900 to a significantly higher number yet tbd.

With other groups within BA these are contractural and would require renegotiation, BA has circumvented that with MF.
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Old 4th Jan 2011, 21:22
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Clauses such as this have been around for years, just no one has bothered to scrutinise them until now.... My initial temporary contract in 2008 stated -

"Your duties include all work normally undertaken in this role and other duties that the Company may require you to do"

"You may be posted to another fleet from time to time"

"You may be posted to any location worldwide on a temporary or permanent basis..."

"If you fail to succesfully complete any training... the company may terminate your employment"
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Old 5th Jan 2011, 09:49
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As a general rule we are having 2 days after LAS, DEN but none after NBO - Which I can’t seem to get my head around. Time will tell I suppose?
Do LAS and DEN appear at the end of your blocks of work and NBO at the beginning? Given your example line of work they are using your unacclimatised on the 2 European trips but as you probably don't need the max FDP and are getting 3 local nights rest in a timezone 2 hours wide (assuming you get 8 hours between 10pm and 8am) you are acclimatised for the LAS giving you the max FDP possible. You could equally have a LAS or DEN at the beginning of a block and work a similar pattern.

Whilst this looks great on paper and is probably termed "efficient" rostering I imagine once the fatigue reports start rolling into the CAA it will be changed fairly quickly. From the CAA publication The Avoidance Of Fatigue In Aircrews
Other factors to be considered when planning duty periods include:
a) the allocation of work patterns which avoid such undesirable practices as
alternating day/night duties, the positioning of crew so that a serious disruption of
established sleep/work patterns occur, or scheduling rest periods of between 18
and 30 hours especially after long flights crossing many time zones;
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Old 5th Jan 2011, 09:53
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Welshboy,

My contract did not, it was more specific about work and flexibility and noted that changed and pratices were to be via the world wide scheduling agreement and collective bargaining.

(That, partially, was what Unite took BA to court about during the imposition dispute. Was the agreement incorporated into my contract. The answer wasn't straight forward but did conclude that onboard crew numbers were not incorporated.)

So, have BA clarified the terms of Sec 5 or have you decided that BA will not ask you to work in the terminal because the terms are just the usual small print that doesn't matter? What will happen to you if 900 hours is achieved sooner rather than later, in your opinion?
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