How is it on BA Mixed Fleet, are you enjoying it?
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PC767,
I don't mean this to sound scathing towards Cabin Crew but what use would they be in terminals outside of times of disruption? There's little they could do without the correct training...
At LGW when we nearly all maxed out hours after 10/11 months we were assigned days of 900 hrs GWK (Ground work). Nobody actually did any ground work despite my contract alluding to the fact that BA could require me to should they so wish, this I believe is because I wouldn't have had the first clue what to do other than pointing people in the right direction (and even then I think in 3 years I spent about 10 mins in the North Terminal departures hall).
I don't mean to sound argumentative but I think in the long term BA will see it more in their interest to provide sustainable rosters to MF, but initially Man Power planning (always BA's weakest point) and scheduling are testing new ground - even SFG's MOA has more restrictions than the new MF. The same thing happened at LGW; year 1 was a bit of a disaster (even the then head of IFS admitted so) but they learned from it and maxing out hours is a rare occurrence now I believe.
I don't mean this to sound scathing towards Cabin Crew but what use would they be in terminals outside of times of disruption? There's little they could do without the correct training...
At LGW when we nearly all maxed out hours after 10/11 months we were assigned days of 900 hrs GWK (Ground work). Nobody actually did any ground work despite my contract alluding to the fact that BA could require me to should they so wish, this I believe is because I wouldn't have had the first clue what to do other than pointing people in the right direction (and even then I think in 3 years I spent about 10 mins in the North Terminal departures hall).
I don't mean to sound argumentative but I think in the long term BA will see it more in their interest to provide sustainable rosters to MF, but initially Man Power planning (always BA's weakest point) and scheduling are testing new ground - even SFG's MOA has more restrictions than the new MF. The same thing happened at LGW; year 1 was a bit of a disaster (even the then head of IFS admitted so) but they learned from it and maxing out hours is a rare occurrence now I believe.
Juan,
Your point about fatigue is very well made. I have had a number of interactions with the CAA medics, and they are serious people.
Whilst they have a sense of humour, getting the words right is important.
Your point about fatigue is very well made. I have had a number of interactions with the CAA medics, and they are serious people.
Whilst they have a sense of humour, getting the words right is important.
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Matt101 - I agree with you, I ( and probably most other crew ) would be completely useless in the terminal.... I could tell customers where WHSMiths and Boots is, but as for anything else...
PC767 - Having asked several managers, CSM's etc, they have all said we will not be working in the terminals.
PC767 - Having asked several managers, CSM's etc, they have all said we will not be working in the terminals.
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Matt101. Iaccept your point, however, SFG do not have a stand down clause in their contracts, which would be a concern.
Welshboy1982. No further debate then. I hope you are correct to take BA on trust, although the word of a CSM is meaningless, they know no more than you or I. It is further up the chain where the answer will lie. Best wishes.
Welshboy1982. No further debate then. I hope you are correct to take BA on trust, although the word of a CSM is meaningless, they know no more than you or I. It is further up the chain where the answer will lie. Best wishes.
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I note that the same names that pontificate so regularly on the BA Industrial Relations Thread are now taking over this one.
The title of this thread indicates that it is directed at those actually flying as Cabin Crew on Mixed Fleet. If you do not fit into this category, please consider whether this is the most appropriate place for you to be posting.
The title of this thread indicates that it is directed at those actually flying as Cabin Crew on Mixed Fleet. If you do not fit into this category, please consider whether this is the most appropriate place for you to be posting.
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Thanks so much to elldee and Welshboy for explaining your rosters.
I think as time goes by BA will tinker with things to make them more sustainable over the longer period because when you add the Haneda trip into the boiling pot, I do think some of you might feel true fatigue if you have just done something like a Las Vegas and not had much rest after and keep repeating similar patterns.
However am friends with one of your Mixed Fleet Managers and she told me that she thought you would all adjust the way you bid, giving more care to the days off you request and she thought that, that would sort out the problems, we shall see.
Anyway wish you all well and I hope for your sakes that you enjoy your time with BA. I still love my job despite all this unrest at the moment and truly hope things will settle down and we can all co-exist together as one big happy team. Anyway in my dreams!!
I think as time goes by BA will tinker with things to make them more sustainable over the longer period because when you add the Haneda trip into the boiling pot, I do think some of you might feel true fatigue if you have just done something like a Las Vegas and not had much rest after and keep repeating similar patterns.
However am friends with one of your Mixed Fleet Managers and she told me that she thought you would all adjust the way you bid, giving more care to the days off you request and she thought that, that would sort out the problems, we shall see.
Anyway wish you all well and I hope for your sakes that you enjoy your time with BA. I still love my job despite all this unrest at the moment and truly hope things will settle down and we can all co-exist together as one big happy team. Anyway in my dreams!!
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I'm also on MF
Good points - most crew generally very friendly and supportive, from the CSM down. Many with prior experience as SCCMs and trainers and an asset to the company.
Routes - some interesting routes coming online, not all nightstops.
Change - fairly easy to feedback problems and get them resolved reasonably quickly
Promotion - hopefully at a more reasonable pace than on existing fleets.
Bad points / points I hope will change
Pay - my pay for a full month's flying in November was on the low side - just under £1000. This doesn't really pay my bills and if this doesn't change I will have to leave.
Rostering - unrealistic. I have been rostered LHR-LAS-LHR (1 night) followed by ONE day off, immediately followed by another LHR-LAS-LHR. Next month I have an NBO (1 night) immediately followed by a shorthaul sector. I am shattered most of the time!
Positions - "Future Talent Crew" FTCs - sit in BA Purser positions and carry out most of the BA Purser duties (including completion of assessments on other crew) yet are told they not in a different grade and as such will not be paid any differently (excepting a paltry £100/month extra which means little).
I am optimistic that these things can be changed but I think it's important BA realise that if the pay is not upped, people will leave - rapidly. In fact, I have flown with two crew that have already left after 2 months - one for Emirates, the other for Virgin.
Let's hope the Company responsds constructively to our concerns.
Good points - most crew generally very friendly and supportive, from the CSM down. Many with prior experience as SCCMs and trainers and an asset to the company.
Routes - some interesting routes coming online, not all nightstops.
Change - fairly easy to feedback problems and get them resolved reasonably quickly
Promotion - hopefully at a more reasonable pace than on existing fleets.
Bad points / points I hope will change
Pay - my pay for a full month's flying in November was on the low side - just under £1000. This doesn't really pay my bills and if this doesn't change I will have to leave.
Rostering - unrealistic. I have been rostered LHR-LAS-LHR (1 night) followed by ONE day off, immediately followed by another LHR-LAS-LHR. Next month I have an NBO (1 night) immediately followed by a shorthaul sector. I am shattered most of the time!
Positions - "Future Talent Crew" FTCs - sit in BA Purser positions and carry out most of the BA Purser duties (including completion of assessments on other crew) yet are told they not in a different grade and as such will not be paid any differently (excepting a paltry £100/month extra which means little).
I am optimistic that these things can be changed but I think it's important BA realise that if the pay is not upped, people will leave - rapidly. In fact, I have flown with two crew that have already left after 2 months - one for Emirates, the other for Virgin.
Let's hope the Company responsds constructively to our concerns.
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Bettygirl - I think bidding might be part of the problem. Too many people give different opinions of what to bid for, how to bid, and obviously nothing is guaranteed through Carmen. But i can't bid specifically to say "Give me 2 days off after every longhaul trip".
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Welshboy,
I agree, I told her that as far as I was aware the bidding was the same as E/F and it was not that easy to bid to get days off after a particular trip, it's just not that kind of a system!
On E/F we only do short haul so the impact of only one day off after a block of seven days work is not as bad, yes we would be very tired but we don't have time changes to deal with like you.
I think at LGW, on the single fleet, they trigger 2 days off after each long haul trip because initially they had the same problem when SFG started but I just can't understand why BA have not learnt from their experience down there.
Thanks Smell the coffee.
I think you are right the money is a problem when trying to work and live in the most expensive part of the UK in particular. I don't think BA will have a problem attracting crew to the job but retaining crew at these low levels is hard.
I said to this Mixed Fleet Manager that I thought the salary was very low and she said 'but they will be taking home 18k when you add in their 2.40 ph' but I reminded her that you have to eat and drink using quite a bit of that 2.40 allowance so it can't really be included like that!!
Anyway hopefully it will improve for you all. I can see you are all very keen and I truly hope the job ends up being all that you want it to be.
I agree, I told her that as far as I was aware the bidding was the same as E/F and it was not that easy to bid to get days off after a particular trip, it's just not that kind of a system!
On E/F we only do short haul so the impact of only one day off after a block of seven days work is not as bad, yes we would be very tired but we don't have time changes to deal with like you.
I think at LGW, on the single fleet, they trigger 2 days off after each long haul trip because initially they had the same problem when SFG started but I just can't understand why BA have not learnt from their experience down there.
Thanks Smell the coffee.
I think you are right the money is a problem when trying to work and live in the most expensive part of the UK in particular. I don't think BA will have a problem attracting crew to the job but retaining crew at these low levels is hard.
I said to this Mixed Fleet Manager that I thought the salary was very low and she said 'but they will be taking home 18k when you add in their 2.40 ph' but I reminded her that you have to eat and drink using quite a bit of that 2.40 allowance so it can't really be included like that!!
Anyway hopefully it will improve for you all. I can see you are all very keen and I truly hope the job ends up being all that you want it to be.
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Welshboy/Bettygirl/Elldee...
I am just trying to get my head around current MF rostering structures...can you confirm (given what has been said) that the something like the following is possible?:
M: LHR-NBO
T:
W: NB0-LHR
T: LHR-BUD-LHR
F: LHR-PRG-LHR
S: LHR-LAS
S:
M: LAS-LHR
I am a bit unclear about the NBO trip, as when I use to do them (prev worked on LH, left company but had an offer to work back on MF) they were night sectors both ways. I am not sure if you can squeeze min rest in between?
Thanks for the clarification.
I am just trying to get my head around current MF rostering structures...can you confirm (given what has been said) that the something like the following is possible?:
M: LHR-NBO
T:
W: NB0-LHR
T: LHR-BUD-LHR
F: LHR-PRG-LHR
S: LHR-LAS
S:
M: LAS-LHR
I am a bit unclear about the NBO trip, as when I use to do them (prev worked on LH, left company but had an offer to work back on MF) they were night sectors both ways. I am not sure if you can squeeze min rest in between?
Thanks for the clarification.
Last edited by Finals19; 6th Jan 2011 at 07:19. Reason: Early morning idiot syndrome ;-)
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Well the sector out to NBO is a day sector and the one home from NBO starts on the Tuesday evening and lands back Wed morning ( using your example) so you would be getting one local night rest (wed) but no day off before the Bud.
I don't think you could squeeze in two short haul as in your example because you have to have one day off after 7.
So if you removed one of the short haul day return trips from it, it could be a M/F roster but I don't know how common this kind of rostering would be.
I don't think you could squeeze in two short haul as in your example because you have to have one day off after 7.
So if you removed one of the short haul day return trips from it, it could be a M/F roster but I don't know how common this kind of rostering would be.
Last edited by Betty girl; 6th Jan 2011 at 10:07.
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I will post my roster up until the endof this month for clarification. I am currently on days off and annual leave which amount to 9 clear days off.
TU 11 JAN LHR-PSA-LHR
WE 12 JAN LHR-LAS
FR 14 JAN LAS-LHR
SA 15 JAN OFF DUTY
SU 16 JAN OFF DUTY
MO 17 JAN LHR-BUD-LHR
TU 18 JAN LHR-PRG-LHR
WE 19 JAN LHR-NBO
TH 20 JAN NBO-LHR
SA 22 JAN LHR-PRG-LHR
SU 23 JAN LHR-PSA-LHR
MO 24 JAN OFF DUTY
TU 25 JAN LHR-PSA-LHR
WE 26 JAN STANDBY AT HOME
TH 27 JAN STANDBY AT HOME
FR 28 JAN OFF DUTY
SA 29 JAN OFF DUTY
SU 30 JAN LHR-NBO
MO 31 JAN NBO-LHR
Hope this is of some help or gives you more of an insight. Im pretty sure this is a typical MF roster...
TU 11 JAN LHR-PSA-LHR
WE 12 JAN LHR-LAS
FR 14 JAN LAS-LHR
SA 15 JAN OFF DUTY
SU 16 JAN OFF DUTY
MO 17 JAN LHR-BUD-LHR
TU 18 JAN LHR-PRG-LHR
WE 19 JAN LHR-NBO
TH 20 JAN NBO-LHR
SA 22 JAN LHR-PRG-LHR
SU 23 JAN LHR-PSA-LHR
MO 24 JAN OFF DUTY
TU 25 JAN LHR-PSA-LHR
WE 26 JAN STANDBY AT HOME
TH 27 JAN STANDBY AT HOME
FR 28 JAN OFF DUTY
SA 29 JAN OFF DUTY
SU 30 JAN LHR-NBO
MO 31 JAN NBO-LHR
Hope this is of some help or gives you more of an insight. Im pretty sure this is a typical MF roster...
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Thanks Elldee,
The 17th through to the 23rd will be a hard slog for you, seven days continuous work including short haul either side of that Narobi and then only one day off after the whole phase!!!!.
Good luck.
I think they will have to do something to change that kind of rostering because that will be a killer.
The 17th through to the 23rd will be a hard slog for you, seven days continuous work including short haul either side of that Narobi and then only one day off after the whole phase!!!!.
Good luck.
I think they will have to do something to change that kind of rostering because that will be a killer.
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elldee
That's a tough week! Enjoy your 9 days leave and get plenty of rest. Like the others have said, on SFG and the old mid-fleet changes were made after a few months to make the rostering more user-friendly. Good luck and do talk to us at work, most of us are very friendly! We need to break down this 'them and us' barrier so we can make mixed fleet a better place to be.
OG
MO 17 JAN LHR-BUD-LHR
TU 18 JAN LHR-PRG-LHR
WE 19 JAN LHR-NBO
TH 20 JAN NBO-LHR
SA 22 JAN LHR-PRG-LHR
SU 23 JAN LHR-PSA-LHR
TU 18 JAN LHR-PRG-LHR
WE 19 JAN LHR-NBO
TH 20 JAN NBO-LHR
SA 22 JAN LHR-PRG-LHR
SU 23 JAN LHR-PSA-LHR
OG
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Yes, I must say I was suprised when I saw that on the roster.
But you know what, im putting this in perspective (rightly or wrongly). I had the whole of christmas and new year off. One flight then this break im on now. Its not all bad, is it! Yes I will be shattered by the end of that week, but I cant do anything about it now.
Will be interesting to see how Febs roster looks, now I have learnt how to bid correctly!
*edited for spelling! Doh!
But you know what, im putting this in perspective (rightly or wrongly). I had the whole of christmas and new year off. One flight then this break im on now. Its not all bad, is it! Yes I will be shattered by the end of that week, but I cant do anything about it now.
Will be interesting to see how Febs roster looks, now I have learnt how to bid correctly!
*edited for spelling! Doh!
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I agree Ottergirl, I have been making a point of talking to Mixed Fleet crew that I recognise but am also happy to chat to others too.
I think more and more level headed crew are starting to think like us and realise that it is not, at all, the Mixed Fleet crew who are to blame for any of this mess, they are really the victims of all of this and we should all do our bit to make them welcome and help them through this.
I think more and more level headed crew are starting to think like us and realise that it is not, at all, the Mixed Fleet crew who are to blame for any of this mess, they are really the victims of all of this and we should all do our bit to make them welcome and help them through this.
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I must admit I had my guard up when first going into the CRC - but im always willing to chat - to anyone from any fleet.
I just feel my hat box is a bit of a people repellent sometimes...
I just feel my hat box is a bit of a people repellent sometimes...
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Mixed Fleet, welcome to the real world. Most other companies have had rosters like this for many years. That it comes as such a shock to some mainline crews, shows just how far out of touch with reality the cabin crew agreements make BA compared to their competitors, and why these changes need to be made to make BA sustainable in the present economic climate.
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I know what you mean Elldee. It does go both ways I think.
I think because you might feel guarded and also the desks are so prominant some of you are also very defensive towards us which is understandable.
I walked past the other day and saw a CSM that I know and she completely blanked me and turned her head away. I was a little shocked but decided to actually go up to her and have a chat anyway and she was fine. She told me she was enjoying being a CSM but that it felt like she never stopped working.
Anyway hopefully with time it will all sort itself out. Lets just hope there isn't another strike!!!!
I think because you might feel guarded and also the desks are so prominant some of you are also very defensive towards us which is understandable.
I walked past the other day and saw a CSM that I know and she completely blanked me and turned her head away. I was a little shocked but decided to actually go up to her and have a chat anyway and she was fine. She told me she was enjoying being a CSM but that it felt like she never stopped working.
Anyway hopefully with time it will all sort itself out. Lets just hope there isn't another strike!!!!
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Windytoo, We will have to disagree on that.
Do you actually fly and have you also ever done a long haul trip followed directly with shorthaul the next day. I don't actually believe that, that is normal for MOST airlines.
Do you actually fly and have you also ever done a long haul trip followed directly with shorthaul the next day. I don't actually believe that, that is normal for MOST airlines.