BA CC industrial relations (current airline staff only)
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Colonel White
Why would BA bother seeking injunctions or visiting courts? The big problem Unite have is that if (whatever appears on the ballot) BA says it is linked to the previous one - therefore any action is unprotected, strikers would face dismissal. BA would not need to seek injunctions beforehand - they would let the strike go ahead and sack anyone who walked out - and if that is what they stated I don't suppose many people wouldn't believe that BA would follow through. I don't suppose that our legal system works in such a way that Unite could announce a strike and subsequently unilaterally ask a court to rule whether it is legal before the action is taken. I imagine BA would need to take the initiative.
With the threat of dismissal from BA balanced against the promise from BASSA that BA couldn't sack you, I doubt even MissM would withdraw her labour. I suspect Unite have already figured this out so are securing a deal.
Unite will think long and hard about reballoting anyway as they need to have a reason that is in no way connected with the previous stoppages. You can bet that the BA legal eagles will go over every single word on the ballot paper. Unite cannot afford to go back to court and have yet another injunction slapped on them.
With the threat of dismissal from BA balanced against the promise from BASSA that BA couldn't sack you, I doubt even MissM would withdraw her labour. I suspect Unite have already figured this out so are securing a deal.
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plodding along
Yes! I have to agree with plodding along and with 747girl also, everyone was being so patronising and saying how auful the new contract is for MF CC but it seems its a case of 'I'm alright Jack and its up to them if they want to take the job'. Well no, actually, some people are badly in need of a job and they dont have that choice.
I think LHR WW CC would achieve a great deal more understanding and sympathy if it took a genuine concern for CC MF.
It seems to me that if someone has a different way of thinking then it must be provocative - you should here yourselves sometime.
I think LHR WW CC would achieve a great deal more understanding and sympathy if it took a genuine concern for CC MF.
It seems to me that if someone has a different way of thinking then it must be provocative - you should here yourselves sometime.
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The court hearing is not over as yet Wirbelstrum.(see below)
So , I am hoping for the appeal to be officially denied to end this constant visit to the courts.. (Also having been at the original court hearings conmpletly agreed with Sir Christopher Hollands original ruling...re crewing levels)..however you have implied that this may not be the case!
I am sure the Judges QCs and co, must be getting fed up!
COURT 74
Before LORD JUSTICE WARD
LADY JUSTICE SMITH and
LORD JUSTICE JACKSON
Not Before half-past 10
APPLICATION
A2/2010/0578(Y) Malone & ors -v- British Airways Plc. Application of Claimants for renewal of lower court part refusal of permission to appeal. Part Heard.
APPEAL
From The Queen's Bench Division
FINAL DECISIONS
A2/2010/0578 Malone & ors -v- British Airways Plc. Appeal of Claimants from the order of Sir Christopher Holland, dated 19th February 2010, filed 10th March 2010. Part Heard.
So , I am hoping for the appeal to be officially denied to end this constant visit to the courts.. (Also having been at the original court hearings conmpletly agreed with Sir Christopher Hollands original ruling...re crewing levels)..however you have implied that this may not be the case!
I am sure the Judges QCs and co, must be getting fed up!
COURT 74
Before LORD JUSTICE WARD
LADY JUSTICE SMITH and
LORD JUSTICE JACKSON
Not Before half-past 10
APPLICATION
A2/2010/0578(Y) Malone & ors -v- British Airways Plc. Application of Claimants for renewal of lower court part refusal of permission to appeal. Part Heard.
APPEAL
From The Queen's Bench Division
FINAL DECISIONS
A2/2010/0578 Malone & ors -v- British Airways Plc. Appeal of Claimants from the order of Sir Christopher Holland, dated 19th February 2010, filed 10th March 2010. Part Heard.
Last edited by skylight; 12th Oct 2010 at 13:37.
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So, would you say if Unite balloted for industrial action in response to the dismissal of some of it's members, BA should not be able to seek an injunction, to prevent the said action, if they wanted to? Or are you suggesting that the Union cannot appeal?
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I am sure the Judges QCs and co, must be getting fed up!
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Juan Tugoh
QCs in particular Mr Hendy are probably quite gleeful at the current situation
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Wirbelstrum
London news last night was reporting that BASSA had lost their appeal over the right of the company to decide crewing levels on the companies aircraft.
What a surprise.
Seems BASSA have launched an immediate appeal (again) though stating that 'quote' 'The judge was wrong.
What a surprise.
Seems BASSA have launched an immediate appeal (again) though stating that 'quote' 'The judge was wrong.
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If you read the further post from the OP upperdecker you will see he stated it was a quick story on BBC London news last night...prehaps complain to the BBC for spreading rumours
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90 day notice
Although this has not been mentioned recently, just a thought (and relevant please note Mods)
I saw a BBC Question Time programme recently and one of the hot subjects was Public Spending cuts. Near the end of the programme a London Firefighter (cannot remember the borough) stated that they had been given 90 days notice. Their job would no longer exist in its' present form after the 90 days. Obviously the new contract offered was less desirable than the current contract and saves the borough money.
So fast forward to this current Cabin Crew dispute. Many prophesies of CC being given the 90 day notice have not arisen in fact. I put it to you though, that if it is accepted the company will not give the 90 day notice, on CC that struck, for accepting the MF contract (which I personally would find unfair to said crew) there is no reason why the company cannot invoke the 90 day notice for the striking BASSA crew to accept the contract that has been accepted by non striking, non union crew. This I would find as a fair solution to the dispute.
And before you shoot me down in flames, this dispute is at an impasse. I am certain the company do not really want it to drag on much longer. As much as the striking crew have made their point it is time to put up or shut up and move out.
If you are so venomous in your comments against the company then why are you still working for them? The answer I come up with is money for old rope! The easy life etc. etc.
I saw a BBC Question Time programme recently and one of the hot subjects was Public Spending cuts. Near the end of the programme a London Firefighter (cannot remember the borough) stated that they had been given 90 days notice. Their job would no longer exist in its' present form after the 90 days. Obviously the new contract offered was less desirable than the current contract and saves the borough money.
So fast forward to this current Cabin Crew dispute. Many prophesies of CC being given the 90 day notice have not arisen in fact. I put it to you though, that if it is accepted the company will not give the 90 day notice, on CC that struck, for accepting the MF contract (which I personally would find unfair to said crew) there is no reason why the company cannot invoke the 90 day notice for the striking BASSA crew to accept the contract that has been accepted by non striking, non union crew. This I would find as a fair solution to the dispute.
And before you shoot me down in flames, this dispute is at an impasse. I am certain the company do not really want it to drag on much longer. As much as the striking crew have made their point it is time to put up or shut up and move out.
If you are so venomous in your comments against the company then why are you still working for them? The answer I come up with is money for old rope! The easy life etc. etc.
Last edited by keel beam; 12th Oct 2010 at 18:31.
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upperdeckpsr
But BA generally win. It's the BASSA QC who keeps picking up fees for failed challenges, each time pushing on to the next court layer.
Why pick on the Union Barrister? If anything BA has been in court on many more times than the few occasions with BASSA - it's BA's legal team who are full of glee
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If thats what you think - he's getting another days pay then isn't he
COURT 74
Before LORD JUSTICE JACKSON
Wednesday, 13th October, 2010
At half-past 10
APPLICATION
A2/2010/1444 Allen -v- Chief Constable of West Yorkshire Police Constabulary. Application of Appellant for permission to appeal.
Before LORD JUSTICE WARD
LADY JUSTICE SMITH and
LORD JUSTICE JACKSON
Not Before half-past 10
APPLICATION
A2/2010/0578(Y) Malone & ors -v- British Airways Plc. Application of Claimants for renewal of lower court part refusal of permission to appeal. Part Heard.
APPEAL
From The Queen's Bench Division
FINAL DECISIONS
A2/2010/0578 Malone & ors -v- British Airways Plc. Appeal of Claimants from the order of Sir Christopher Holland, dated 19th February 2010, filed 10th March 2010. Part Heard.
Before LORD JUSTICE JACKSON
Wednesday, 13th October, 2010
At half-past 10
APPLICATION
A2/2010/1444 Allen -v- Chief Constable of West Yorkshire Police Constabulary. Application of Appellant for permission to appeal.
Before LORD JUSTICE WARD
LADY JUSTICE SMITH and
LORD JUSTICE JACKSON
Not Before half-past 10
APPLICATION
A2/2010/0578(Y) Malone & ors -v- British Airways Plc. Application of Claimants for renewal of lower court part refusal of permission to appeal. Part Heard.
APPEAL
From The Queen's Bench Division
FINAL DECISIONS
A2/2010/0578 Malone & ors -v- British Airways Plc. Appeal of Claimants from the order of Sir Christopher Holland, dated 19th February 2010, filed 10th March 2010. Part Heard.
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Why pick on the Union Barrister? If anything BA has been in court on many more times than the few occasions with BASSA - it's BA's legal team who are full of glee
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Litebulbs
Think it's pure coincidence, although Unite lodged the appeal some time back and it also sounds as though Unite instigated the latest talks. Last time we were in this situation, it was the court case that is now the subject of the appeal and Unite were balloting for industrial action.
I note that BASSA seem to have kept the blinkers on, judging from their latest missive. They say, and I paraphrase, that members have the choice of voting to accept the deal if they think it addresses all their concerns, but intimate that should the deal put forward not have a majority, that they will ballot for strike action.
Am I alone in having a degree of unease about the way in which this consultative ballot will be conducted ? I just get the impression that the previous one was possibly poorly managed with insufficient time allowed to ensure that all ballot papers were received and members given a reasonable opportunity to cast a vote. The strike ballots gave four weeks from papers being sent out to close of voting. The consultative ballot allowed about half that time. Maybe that was why under half the membership voted. Given the timescales, I can see that BASSA would want to hurry through any consultative ballot so that they could have the four week period for a strike ballot in time to walk out at Christmas. I reckon that BASSA will only allow three weeks maximum for the consultative ballot as this will then give them the opportunity to call a strike by December 13th for the Christmas week.
I get the feeling that the BASSA leadership want another strike. The tone of the comments coming from them in recent days suggests that to be the case. Which makes me wonder if they have the best interests of their members at heart, or whether this dispute is now becoming a personal crusade for some to try and cause maximum damage to British Airways. I would have thought that if the membership reject the deal on the table (when it finally materialises) the next steps should be to go back to the negotiating table and try to secue a better offer. Striking is the last resort, not the first option.
Think it's pure coincidence, although Unite lodged the appeal some time back and it also sounds as though Unite instigated the latest talks. Last time we were in this situation, it was the court case that is now the subject of the appeal and Unite were balloting for industrial action.
I note that BASSA seem to have kept the blinkers on, judging from their latest missive. They say, and I paraphrase, that members have the choice of voting to accept the deal if they think it addresses all their concerns, but intimate that should the deal put forward not have a majority, that they will ballot for strike action.
Am I alone in having a degree of unease about the way in which this consultative ballot will be conducted ? I just get the impression that the previous one was possibly poorly managed with insufficient time allowed to ensure that all ballot papers were received and members given a reasonable opportunity to cast a vote. The strike ballots gave four weeks from papers being sent out to close of voting. The consultative ballot allowed about half that time. Maybe that was why under half the membership voted. Given the timescales, I can see that BASSA would want to hurry through any consultative ballot so that they could have the four week period for a strike ballot in time to walk out at Christmas. I reckon that BASSA will only allow three weeks maximum for the consultative ballot as this will then give them the opportunity to call a strike by December 13th for the Christmas week.
I get the feeling that the BASSA leadership want another strike. The tone of the comments coming from them in recent days suggests that to be the case. Which makes me wonder if they have the best interests of their members at heart, or whether this dispute is now becoming a personal crusade for some to try and cause maximum damage to British Airways. I would have thought that if the membership reject the deal on the table (when it finally materialises) the next steps should be to go back to the negotiating table and try to secue a better offer. Striking is the last resort, not the first option.
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Colonel
If it was you, what would you be looking for? If it was me (moderate), I would be looking at an ACAS binding arbitration solution for the dismissed employees and a full reinstatement of staff travel (over time maybe?) and concede that if any further action was to take place over this issue, then a signed agreement that staff travel will be removed permanently. I doubt if Mr. Walsh will go that far however, but we shall see.
Most on here will not agree with that, because the common thread bias is about punishment and destruction of the BASSA branch.
Most on here will not agree with that, because the common thread bias is about punishment and destruction of the BASSA branch.
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Litebulbs
A little unfair. The vast majority of posters on here over the last few days have said they wouldn't mind staff travel being returned.
What I think most would hate to see is a group of flag waving, Willie Walsh mask with red eyes wearing lunatics cheering on tv claiming a huge victory.
Now if staff travel seniority were to be phased back in over time with a clause that any further strike action on this issue would lead to total loss of staff travel permanently, then that would probably bevagreeable to most
Ps, can you really blame a lot of people for wanting to see the end of BASSA in its current form?
A little unfair. The vast majority of posters on here over the last few days have said they wouldn't mind staff travel being returned.
What I think most would hate to see is a group of flag waving, Willie Walsh mask with red eyes wearing lunatics cheering on tv claiming a huge victory.
Now if staff travel seniority were to be phased back in over time with a clause that any further strike action on this issue would lead to total loss of staff travel permanently, then that would probably bevagreeable to most
Ps, can you really blame a lot of people for wanting to see the end of BASSA in its current form?
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I want people to think twice before going on strike next time - be they pilots. cabin crew, loaders, check in staff or whatever. Standing firm on staff travel is a good way to ensure this, and so I do not want to see it returned. They were warned.
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GS-Alpha
I want people to think twice before going on strike next time - be they pilots. cabin crew, loaders, check in staff or whatever. Standing firm on staff travel is a good way to ensure this, and so I do not want to see it returned. They were warned.