BA CC industrial relations (current airline staff only)
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: france
Age: 62
Posts: 59
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Dunc surrenders
From the horse's mouth
Wonga you ask the reason why we agreed to drop the cases? Well in a nutshell here is your answer
- It was part of the negotiated settlement. This is how it works!
BA say you can have your ST if you drop the litigation.
Our thought process goes along the following lines - as litigation would not automatically mean we get it back and the decision could take years, we reps decide it is worth accepting.
This is how negotiaions work - you have got to give something to get something. A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush type of decision and one that makes perfect sense.
Remember we did not win this dispute, we did not have the company on its knees begging for mercy, had everyone gone on strike and no VCCs had turned we would have been in a much stronger position and perhaps got both the ST back and pressed ahead with the litigation but as strong as we were we failed to get much of an upper hand. In fact with everyone apart from the Queen and the Pope on Willie's side it was is a miracle we have got what we have.
But still the sycophants are asking him to stay on as branch sec. Beggars belief.
Originally Posted by Duncan Holley, Branch Secretary, BASSA 1983-2011 RIP
Wonga you ask the reason why we agreed to drop the cases? Well in a nutshell here is your answer
- It was part of the negotiated settlement. This is how it works!
BA say you can have your ST if you drop the litigation.
Our thought process goes along the following lines - as litigation would not automatically mean we get it back and the decision could take years, we reps decide it is worth accepting.
This is how negotiaions work - you have got to give something to get something. A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush type of decision and one that makes perfect sense.
Remember we did not win this dispute, we did not have the company on its knees begging for mercy, had everyone gone on strike and no VCCs had turned we would have been in a much stronger position and perhaps got both the ST back and pressed ahead with the litigation but as strong as we were we failed to get much of an upper hand. In fact with everyone apart from the Queen and the Pope on Willie's side it was is a miracle we have got what we have.
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: on boeings finest
Posts: 184
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Our thought process goes along the following lines - as litigation would not automatically mean we get it back and the decision could take years, we reps decide it is worth accepting.
I have a couple of friends still voting NO, and still banging on about crew defense, I wonder if they can find the 1 million ££ minimum and about 6 years to take this to its final conclusion. (I doubt it)
Remember we did not win this dispute, we did not have the company on its knees begging for mercy, had everyone gone on strike and no VCCs had turned we would have been in a much stronger position and perhaps got both the ST back and pressed ahead with the litigation but as strong as we were we failed to get much of an upper hand.
Losers....................
Controversial, moi?
.....it has been disastrous for both employees and shareholders alike.
Disaster? I don't think so.
The only thing I find quite extraordinary is that anybody would be wasting their money paying BASSA/Unite for membership of such a dreadful organisation. The tail no longer wags the dog.
I must have missed it if anything has been posted but what became of the requests to see BASSA's accounts?
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: motorway services
Posts: 118
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I always believe that no matter which forum it is, once a thread gets to the Monty Python quote, it has 'jumped the shark' and should be closed...
Jumping the shark - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Jumping the shark - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: UK
Posts: 33
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Shocking but I agree with Yellow Pen!
Far too early to take the champagne off the ice.
In post 4149 doishquattroserche appears to think we all follow BASSA like little lambs. Not so as the birth of CrewDefence proves.
CrewDefence was borne of frustration by some members at the perceived lack of understanding or support from both the Labour Party and Unite, especially in regards to the taking of travel concessions as a punishment for going on strike.
With 2000 plus members it should not be lightly dismissed, as I believe there is unhappiness at the dropping of litigation by Unite as part of a negotiated settlement.
This weekend saw skirmishes on the BASSA forum that at times descended into a cyber street war, as some members whipped up a VOTE NO sentiment before we even had a chance to read the document.
I still believe the vote will be to settle but it is vital we all return our ballot to guarantee it.
We don’t all want the same thing so the settlement was never going to please everyone. However, it meets some important criteria including a permanent contractual agreement regarding variable pay and independent binding arbitration for the suspended and sacked.
I believe the clinical psychologist identified some areas that were barriers to achieving settlement. Having two branches of our Union has always caused problems as issues have historically often turned into power struggles to the frustration of the business. There will be a merging of BASSA and 89(Amicus) which may not please all members. There will be elections for Reps too and I suspect some new faces will enter the arena as all are not happy. Betty Girl, this is where members have the opportunity to step forward and change things from the inside.
As for the management, I believe some may have been referred to as ‘treacle’, a sticky barrier to achieving settlement. I suspect Mr Williams will reducing his sugar intake and introducing a more savoury menu.
After any war there are serious issues. There is anger from those who lost more pay days than strike days that the Union will no longer pursue this. However, the settlement document does acknowledge individual Union members can pursue cases themselves and support each other, so CrewDefence may yet have some work to do.
Both sides have to step down from ‘battle mode’ and some will find this harder than others. Now is when the hard work begins!
Alehandra, you noted my post on here was very different to the ‘other’ forum. Whilst my style here is less emotional and I am mindful of the fact this is a public forum, my sentiments are the same.
We have been accused of being ‘Mentalists’ but I believe the reality is we are passionate, emotional people. It’s why we were recruited. Unlike other careers, being Cabin Crew becomes part of our self identity. Attacks by the media and events such as the ‘wailing wall’ debacle felt to me like an attack on the Company I love too. It was personal. The dispute got personal. I am sure it will be studied in the future and I hope the lessons it produces will help Unions and Companies have more productive relationships, as the toxic fall out of a prolonged industrial dispute is very damaging to both individuals and businesses.
The postings made by Dingbaticus on this site are my own thoughts, feelings and beliefs and don’t necessarily represent my employers positions, strategies or opinions
Far too early to take the champagne off the ice.
In post 4149 doishquattroserche appears to think we all follow BASSA like little lambs. Not so as the birth of CrewDefence proves.
CrewDefence was borne of frustration by some members at the perceived lack of understanding or support from both the Labour Party and Unite, especially in regards to the taking of travel concessions as a punishment for going on strike.
With 2000 plus members it should not be lightly dismissed, as I believe there is unhappiness at the dropping of litigation by Unite as part of a negotiated settlement.
This weekend saw skirmishes on the BASSA forum that at times descended into a cyber street war, as some members whipped up a VOTE NO sentiment before we even had a chance to read the document.
I still believe the vote will be to settle but it is vital we all return our ballot to guarantee it.
We don’t all want the same thing so the settlement was never going to please everyone. However, it meets some important criteria including a permanent contractual agreement regarding variable pay and independent binding arbitration for the suspended and sacked.
I believe the clinical psychologist identified some areas that were barriers to achieving settlement. Having two branches of our Union has always caused problems as issues have historically often turned into power struggles to the frustration of the business. There will be a merging of BASSA and 89(Amicus) which may not please all members. There will be elections for Reps too and I suspect some new faces will enter the arena as all are not happy. Betty Girl, this is where members have the opportunity to step forward and change things from the inside.
As for the management, I believe some may have been referred to as ‘treacle’, a sticky barrier to achieving settlement. I suspect Mr Williams will reducing his sugar intake and introducing a more savoury menu.
After any war there are serious issues. There is anger from those who lost more pay days than strike days that the Union will no longer pursue this. However, the settlement document does acknowledge individual Union members can pursue cases themselves and support each other, so CrewDefence may yet have some work to do.
Both sides have to step down from ‘battle mode’ and some will find this harder than others. Now is when the hard work begins!
Alehandra, you noted my post on here was very different to the ‘other’ forum. Whilst my style here is less emotional and I am mindful of the fact this is a public forum, my sentiments are the same.
We have been accused of being ‘Mentalists’ but I believe the reality is we are passionate, emotional people. It’s why we were recruited. Unlike other careers, being Cabin Crew becomes part of our self identity. Attacks by the media and events such as the ‘wailing wall’ debacle felt to me like an attack on the Company I love too. It was personal. The dispute got personal. I am sure it will be studied in the future and I hope the lessons it produces will help Unions and Companies have more productive relationships, as the toxic fall out of a prolonged industrial dispute is very damaging to both individuals and businesses.
The postings made by Dingbaticus on this site are my own thoughts, feelings and beliefs and don’t necessarily represent my employers positions, strategies or opinions
Join Date: May 2010
Location: maidenhead
Posts: 941
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Good points Dingbaticus.
I have always said on here that the way all this was handled by both sides actually made it a lot worse than it needed to be and lets hope lessons will be learnt.
Lets also hope that ALL those of us that want an end to this and have a vote! use it to vote YES. Please, pretty please.
I have always said on here that the way all this was handled by both sides actually made it a lot worse than it needed to be and lets hope lessons will be learnt.
Lets also hope that ALL those of us that want an end to this and have a vote! use it to vote YES. Please, pretty please.
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: UK
Posts: 103
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Dingbaticus
We have been accused of being ‘Mentalists’ but I believe the reality is we are passionate, emotional people. It’s why we were recruited. Unlike other careers, being Cabin Crew becomes part of our self identity. Attacks by the media and events such as the ‘wailing wall’ debacle felt to me like an attack on the Company I love too. It was personal. The dispute got personal. I am sure it will be studied in the future and I hope the lessons it produces will help Unions and Companies have more productive relationships, as the toxic fall out of a prolonged industrial dispute is very damaging to both individuals and businesses.
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: AROUND AND ABOUT
Posts: 164
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Full document is on . FRONT PAGE HOME PAGE ( open website for all to see). Will read it later on over a glass or two of vino
Nice to see unite entering into the full spirit of the occasion by STILL having WW on the front page. Seems they just can't help themselves can they!!
Nice to see unite entering into the full spirit of the occasion by STILL having WW on the front page. Seems they just can't help themselves can they!!
Join Date: May 2010
Location: maidenhead
Posts: 941
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I notice they blame people like me for their recklessness!
Those of us that did not think a 12 day strike over Christmas was a good idea and left the union as a result. It is all our fault! I don't think so!
Shame they felt the need to add that at the end but never mind, I'm just glad it will soon be over!
You see that is why many of us wont feel able to rejoin these people!!Ding.
Those of us that did not think a 12 day strike over Christmas was a good idea and left the union as a result. It is all our fault! I don't think so!
Shame they felt the need to add that at the end but never mind, I'm just glad it will soon be over!
You see that is why many of us wont feel able to rejoin these people!!Ding.
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: UK
Posts: 217
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
As for the management, I believe some may have been referred to as ‘treacle’, a sticky barrier to achieving settlement. I suspect Mr Williams will reducing his sugar intake and introducing a more savoury menu.
But only by the union die-hards! Have there been any signs at all, public or private, that BA share BASSAs dissatisfaction with Bill Francis? Attempting to scapegoat individuals has been BASSAs stock-in-trade for much of the dispute. It's one of the behaviours the new deal requires them to leave behind.
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: House
Posts: 0
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
So your not that happy with Duncan that's because he has shown great leadership of BASSA unlike another so called union which starts with a B. Now I feel many of you have been upset by the fact that a deal is 99% sure to be accepted hard for you to understand that an honourable settlement has arrived. It's a pity some people wanted to get involved in " our dispute" and looked down to in the aviation world. I had the pleasure of hearing the comments of Air Canada and Lufthansa crew saying how brave we were to fight on and yes mention of our so called team mates let us down. When will you lot understand that once we leave the aircraft we no longer want contact with your circle as you betrayed us beyond belief. Maybe in 2013 a thaw in relations will happen to coincide with our original ban date expiration who knows. Well BASSA we are proud of you and all of the 7000 army who stood firm.
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: UK
Posts: 217
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
So your not that happy with Duncan that's because he has shown great leadership of BASSA unlike another so called union which starts with a B. Now I feel many of you have been upset by the fact that a deal is 99% sure to be accepted hard for you to understand that an honourable settlement has arrived.
It's a pity some people wanted to get involved in " our dispute" and looked down to in the aviation world. I had the pleasure of hearing the comments of Air Canada and Lufthansa crew saying how brave we were to fight on and yes mention of our so called team mates let us down.
When will you lot understand that once we leave the aircraft we no longer want contact with your circle as you betrayed us beyond belief.
Maybe in 2013 a thaw in relations will happen to coincide with our original ban date expiration who knows. Well BASSA we are proud of you and all of the 7000 army who stood firm.
PS It was 5000.
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Tunbridge Wells
Posts: 148
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Yellow Pen
When will you lot understand that we just don't care? We flew through your strikes and had a great time with the rational crews who came to work. The idea that we want to spend our time hanging out with a bunch of deluded militants, listening to them whinge about how the whole world is against them is beyond ludicrous.
