British Airways - CC Industrial Relations Mk V
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but who has negotiated all these different allowances and payments for you? Do you think BA came up with them themselves?
BASSA tell you to do something completely idiotic and strike. You think "hmm not sure about this, could be ultimately detrimental to my job". Then you realise they negotiated those allowances for you and payments, so without further doubt, you blindly walk off, doing whatever they ask, and believe all that they say.
Why don't you ask yourself who gave you the job in the first place to get this wage, these benefits, this lifestyle etc etc. It wasn't BASSA who gave you the priveledge of being where you are today. BA interviewed you, BA employed you. And as you yourself said, BA pay you.
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Two-Tone-Blue
Here's some news for you. It's not the captain giving that command except on arrival.
Maybe not always but every now and then!
Are you saying the standards are always poor or was it simply on one flight? Because it's mixed messages especially as you've given examples of three different flights (JER, MLA and IAD) you've done.
Of course but do you think we are doing it because of the fun of it? No, I wouldn't think so.
Jersey! Sorry. I just had to do it.
Technically no, other than it is something you are told to do by the Captain of the Aircraft.
I'm not "always slagging off" ...
I am DEEPLY disappointed in the standards of BA Cabin Service in J on L-H out of LHR.
Oh, and of course the fact that BA CC are trying to disrupt my travel plans and potentially lose me holidays, and business trips, and money ... but don't let that worry you, please. Continue to be "primarily for my safety" if the flight I booked and paid for actually happens.
Do you understand where I'm coming from yet? 
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JER = good call 
The clues were there, ust as they were with those who struggled earlier with speedbird67 from NZ.
Anyway ...
1. Technical Stuff.
Regardless of whoever says door to manual and when, was I close to the correct answer? Don't duck that one! The Public deserves to be told.
2. Standards?
3. Justification?
As a paying customer, I really don't care a fiddler's toss about the "debate" between BA/BASSA/UNITE. I'm here putting the paying customer's view - there are other airlines I can fly with [and obviously will in the future]. "As you butter your bread, so must you lie on it", as Granny used to say in her demented years. Just don't expect too much public sympathy on the basis of the evidence posted here and in the Media.
The clues were there, ust as they were with those who struggled earlier with speedbird67 from NZ.
Anyway ...
1. Technical Stuff.
Regardless of whoever says door to manual and when, was I close to the correct answer? Don't duck that one! The Public deserves to be told.
2. Standards?
- Honestly, I have always been IMMENSELY impressed with JER-LGW with BA. I really don't know how they do a J service in the time available, and actually feel guilty about expecting it [well, tbh, I don't expect that volume and quality on a 45-min sector].
- LGW-MLA was a rare trip - again, VERY impressed, especially when we had a bomb-scare at MLA on return [pax debris discovered]. The Capt kept all the pax very well briefed about the delay.
- LHR-IAD? Constantly disappointed on EVERY occasion. Honestly, I'm a nice guy, but cabin state and service has been inferior EVERY time. I'm not joking, that's why I'm banging on here to stress the point. J-class pax aren't getting what they're paying for anyway, and now IA adds the risk of not even getting the sub-standard service.
3. Justification?
As a paying customer, I really don't care a fiddler's toss about the "debate" between BA/BASSA/UNITE. I'm here putting the paying customer's view - there are other airlines I can fly with [and obviously will in the future]. "As you butter your bread, so must you lie on it", as Granny used to say in her demented years. Just don't expect too much public sympathy on the basis of the evidence posted here and in the Media.
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Posted by Miss M
BA is your employer and pays you every month but who has negotiated all these different allowances and payments for you? Do you think BA came up with them themselves?
BA is your employer and pays you every month but who has negotiated all these different allowances and payments for you? Do you think BA came up with them themselves?
I feel like a naughty schoolgirl answering your question!
BASSA certainly didn't come up with it by themselves either, it was negotiated by both parties, Miss M. The magic word is Negotiation, something BASSA failed to do!
For the record, Miss M BASSA also failed to agree Eurofleet doing Fixed Links which would have meant better productivity from Eurofleet crews and a payment to keep both BA and CC happy. Talk about shooting oneself in the foot!
I'm BA Cabin Crew and the above are my personal views and not those of BA.
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@ Tiramasu ... go on, "Trade Secret" ... was I right about "doors to manual"? Over-riding the automatic systems in case there' a ground hazard?
Or aren't we allowed to know?
Or aren't we allowed to know?
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BA is your employer and pays you every month but who has negotiated all these different allowances and payments for you? Do you think BA came up with them themselves?
All BASSA has managed to do over the intervening years is to hold on jealously to what it has at Heathrow by throwing all others to the wolves. BASSA has never had to fight to actually change the T's & C's of the Cabin Crew for the better!
Here's some news for you. It's not the Captain giving that command except on arrival.
Do you know what happens to the door when doing it? And, do you know how to do it yourself or do you think it's all about moving your arms a bit, touching a few bits on the door and giving the impression that you are actually doing SOMETHING?
TTB, the doors are placed to manual when approaching the stand so we don't get a nice little slide banging into the jetty for dis-embarkation. If you open the door from the outside the door will automatically disarm itself. Not if you open it from the inside though!
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Miss M,
You previously mentioned that you enjoy the lifestyle BA gives you. Can you please tell me how you would feel if you were sacked for going on strike or given 90 days to be re-employed by BA if successful on to a new contract?
Have you read German Boy's post and those of Flyglobespan crew? I don't think you realise just how lucky you are working for BA with your current T's and C's.
Miss M, there is a saying 'Quit while you are ahead.' My advice to you is precisely to do that, before you jeopardise all our jobs by striking and bringing BA down.
I'm BA Cabin Crew and the above are my personal views and not those of BA.
You previously mentioned that you enjoy the lifestyle BA gives you. Can you please tell me how you would feel if you were sacked for going on strike or given 90 days to be re-employed by BA if successful on to a new contract?
Have you read German Boy's post and those of Flyglobespan crew? I don't think you realise just how lucky you are working for BA with your current T's and C's.
Miss M, there is a saying 'Quit while you are ahead.' My advice to you is precisely to do that, before you jeopardise all our jobs by striking and bringing BA down.
I'm BA Cabin Crew and the above are my personal views and not those of BA.
Last edited by Tiramisu; 2nd Jan 2010 at 20:33. Reason: Missed the word 'are'
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The Mystery of the Doors To Manual/Auto slowly unravels.
It may yet become clear. Possibly ...
Tune in for next week's exciting instalment ... "I operated a Switch!!"
It may yet become clear. Possibly ...
Tune in for next week's exciting instalment ... "I operated a Switch!!"
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BigBrutha
Very neat!
Tiramisu
Thanks for your patronising reply! Negotiation? I don't think I have ever heard of that word before. I better write it down in my pad.
Fixed Links? I haven't heard anything about that.
Have you ever forwarded your opinions or suggestions to BASSA? Or, are you one of those who think they will name and shame openly you for raising your voice? If you're a member maybe you should talk to them about your concerns. If you're not, tough luck.
wobble2plank
It was a misunderstanding between automatic and manual and I read it too quickly. I did put "It's not the captain giving that command except on arrival" in an earlier reply. Making a mistake is human.
Very neat!
Tiramisu
Thanks for your patronising reply! Negotiation? I don't think I have ever heard of that word before. I better write it down in my pad.
Fixed Links? I haven't heard anything about that.
Have you ever forwarded your opinions or suggestions to BASSA? Or, are you one of those who think they will name and shame openly you for raising your voice? If you're a member maybe you should talk to them about your concerns. If you're not, tough luck.
wobble2plank
It was a misunderstanding between automatic and manual and I read it too quickly. I did put "It's not the captain giving that command except on arrival" in an earlier reply. Making a mistake is human.
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MissM
A little off topic, but I am confident that arming and disarming doors (or to be a bit pedantic, enabling and disabling automatic deplyment of slides on opening of doors) is one of the less demanding elements (physically and intellectually) of your Safety and Emergency Procedures.
Back closer to the line, you complain that Tiramisu and others enjoy benefits negotiated by BASSA even though they are not BASSA members. If you had read the earlier parts of the discussion, you would realise that Tiramisu and others had been fully paid up members of BASSA for many years at the time of the recent ballot, and so were fully entitled, morally and practically, to all benefits negotiated by BASSA. The reasons for resigning were that they no longer had confidence that BASSA were representing the best interests of themselves or of cabin crew in general.
Ask yourself, is the current BASSA line likely to be to your long-term benefit? Think before you vote.
A little off topic, but I am confident that arming and disarming doors (or to be a bit pedantic, enabling and disabling automatic deplyment of slides on opening of doors) is one of the less demanding elements (physically and intellectually) of your Safety and Emergency Procedures.
Back closer to the line, you complain that Tiramisu and others enjoy benefits negotiated by BASSA even though they are not BASSA members. If you had read the earlier parts of the discussion, you would realise that Tiramisu and others had been fully paid up members of BASSA for many years at the time of the recent ballot, and so were fully entitled, morally and practically, to all benefits negotiated by BASSA. The reasons for resigning were that they no longer had confidence that BASSA were representing the best interests of themselves or of cabin crew in general.
Ask yourself, is the current BASSA line likely to be to your long-term benefit? Think before you vote.
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Tiramisu
If BA were to sack me for going on a strike I would take them to court even if it will take years. Spare me the forthcoming comment on not being successful because even if I wouldn't be at least I would have tried my best.
Be given 90 days to be re-employed on a new contract? BA would know exactly where to shove that piece of paper.
I have no intention of leaving BA yet! Maybe if they start offering VR again I would apply and hope for the best although I doubt it because there are a couple of thousand people ahead of me.
If BA were to sack me for going on a strike I would take them to court even if it will take years. Spare me the forthcoming comment on not being successful because even if I wouldn't be at least I would have tried my best.
Be given 90 days to be re-employed on a new contract? BA would know exactly where to shove that piece of paper.
I have no intention of leaving BA yet! Maybe if they start offering VR again I would apply and hope for the best although I doubt it because there are a couple of thousand people ahead of me.
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Dairyground
No, you are absolutely right about disarming and arming doors not being the most tiring part of the job.
It was not a complaim. As pointed out BA does not do individual contracts and it was more of a rhetorical question or a question about their values about these allowances. If they had been given the option to replace all those allowances and payments with a different payment structure, would they have accepted it?
If they have resigned from BASSA they have lost their vote. They can't forward their opinions either although I'm not sure if they would have even if they still had been members.
No, you are absolutely right about disarming and arming doors not being the most tiring part of the job.
It was not a complaim. As pointed out BA does not do individual contracts and it was more of a rhetorical question or a question about their values about these allowances. If they had been given the option to replace all those allowances and payments with a different payment structure, would they have accepted it?
If they have resigned from BASSA they have lost their vote. They can't forward their opinions either although I'm not sure if they would have even if they still had been members.
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Essentially arming or placing a door into automatic engages a bar (called a girt bar - no it's not big or made in Somerset) into some brackets in the floor area by the door, usually underneath the box (bustle) at the base of the door containing the slide. This results in the slide being pulled from the bustle should the door now be opened, it will fall and engage an automatic inflation. (There is a manual inflation handle to).
In disarmed mode (manual) the girt bar and therefore the slide stay with the door as it is opened and therefore does not deploy and inflate.
Arming the door may also arm a power assist function where some gears and gas and chains power open the door as soon as the handle is moved past a certain position assisting the crew in opening the door (as the force required to pull the slide from the bustle can be a bit of a bugger apparently)
Usually this is all done via a handle or lever somewhere on the door. On the 737 you physically bend down and put the bar in the brackets, then wipe the MAN shuttle breakfast on your hands which has been rotting on the girt bar for days.
The cross check bit is just so the crew member with the opposite door comes and has a look to make sure you haven't made a cock up. Much like everything on an aircraft two heads are better than one.
So generally yes it is the operation of a switch/small lever and it really is the least of the Cabin Crew's duties with regards safety and security. Though like the curtain going up at "Cats" it's the bit everyone is still paying attention to before nodding off.
I don't really believe that this has anything to do with the terms and conditions enjoyed by BA cabin crew though and whilst I am not in agreement with the self destructive route BASSA are currently leading the crew down I don't think trivialising someone's role in a company will help.
To steal a phrase from the Janitor at NASA in 1969 "we're all trying to put a man on the moon" (or in this case get you from A to B).
In my experience BA cabin crew can be the best and worst, but then I can say that of most airlines I have flown with. Most of the time though they are above average.
Anyway less about doors. (Sorry Mods.)
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Agreed - I diverted the thread somewhat, largely from frustration at the dripping about safety aspects from CC instead of them justifying the poor standards of cabin service in J on LH from LHR.
I am both informed and chastised.
Back to the UNITE/BASSA/BA War ... where everyone loses.
I am both informed and chastised.
Back to the UNITE/BASSA/BA War ... where everyone loses.
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I didn't mean to sound harsh if I did just trying to say that although frustration is understandable generalisations hurt those on your side of the argument to
As for IAD - between the people eating machines that collect you from the aircraft and the pine trees they hide the crew in one can only assume the attitude is due to downright confusion and boredom
(Though I quite like it there).
Anyway I am ex-crew hence my stance on being nice to them and wanting to kick BASSA in the balls and take them all to some place where negotiation and level headedness are not a foreign concept.
As for IAD - between the people eating machines that collect you from the aircraft and the pine trees they hide the crew in one can only assume the attitude is due to downright confusion and boredom
(Though I quite like it there).
Anyway I am ex-crew hence my stance on being nice to them and wanting to kick BASSA in the balls and take them all to some place where negotiation and level headedness are not a foreign concept.
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WW,
Well, when I compare the well reasoned scenarios posted by TOM100 to the drivel that you write on here, I know which outcome my money's sitting on.
Just do us one favour please, still be posting here in a month's time.
Once again I repeat too many people who are not cabin crew seem to be trying to lay down the options when they are just trying to influence everyone around with views that are at best found on a local landfill site. Wait for the chess moves BA or BASSA will make that move and whatever the so called experts on this site will just rabble on and on until the move takes place. Close the company down 90 days notice etc etc is just pie in the sky everyone just relax and have another drink otherwise you may get too stressed that is not good for your health.
Just do us one favour please, still be posting here in a month's time.
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MissM
Ha Ha. Ha Ha Ha. Ha Ha Ha Ha.
You really dont have the vaguest clue, do you?
Better wise up sharpish then!
If BA were to sack me for going on a strike I would take them to court even if it will take years. Spare me the forthcoming comment on not being successful because even if I wouldn't be at least I would have tried my best.
Be given 90 days to be re-employed on a new contract? BA would know exactly where to shove that piece of paper.
Be given 90 days to be re-employed on a new contract? BA would know exactly where to shove that piece of paper.
You really dont have the vaguest clue, do you?
I have no intention of leaving BA yet!
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