British Airways - CC Industrial Relations & Negotiations
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Another observation...
On BASSA's "victory" and the share price:
"Howard Wheeldon of BGC said the market had also been heartened by the failure late on Thursday of the Unite union's attempt to get a court injunction to block BA's plans to change cabin crew work schedules from November 16.
"It's a relief that the court appears to have signalled they can implement the measures," he said."
Add to this that job losses will reach 4,900 by March. Those of you that vote for a strike (assuming you aren't expecting others to do the dirty work for you) will probably find yourselves in that number, so go ahead.
Will be interesting to see who has the courage to vote for a strike, and the cojones to actually carry it out. It's quite obvious who'll be in the former and not the latter.
"Howard Wheeldon of BGC said the market had also been heartened by the failure late on Thursday of the Unite union's attempt to get a court injunction to block BA's plans to change cabin crew work schedules from November 16.
"It's a relief that the court appears to have signalled they can implement the measures," he said."
Add to this that job losses will reach 4,900 by March. Those of you that vote for a strike (assuming you aren't expecting others to do the dirty work for you) will probably find yourselves in that number, so go ahead.
Will be interesting to see who has the courage to vote for a strike, and the cojones to actually carry it out. It's quite obvious who'll be in the former and not the latter.
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The Bassa 6 are the reps who were charged with bullying and harrassment by an Amicus rep.
BA were obliged to instigate a disciplinary. Nothing will come of it.
SH was the scheduler who "did favours for mates" and got sacked for it.
Then Unite gave him a job as a favour to the Bassa reps - who had benefitted from his favours. He was also given a high profile role during the rally.
BA were obliged to instigate a disciplinary. Nothing will come of it.
SH was the scheduler who "did favours for mates" and got sacked for it.
Then Unite gave him a job as a favour to the Bassa reps - who had benefitted from his favours. He was also given a high profile role during the rally.
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Quite - I have flown around Europe with BA several times in the last few years and have received a hot meal twice. Once in Club (from Gatwick) and once on the Manchester Breakfast shuttle (from Gatwick). Have sat in Euro Traveller many time from LHR and not received a hot meal so please don't tell me it's the norm.
Reduced Crewing and Product - already in place at LGW
and they have less days off, fixed links, standard short turnarounds, mixed flying, no restrictive disruption agreement, usually minimum rest.
Add to this a whole host of other efficiency changes made by the crew at LGW and yes you will understand by incredulity that BASSA are calling a strike ballot over asking the CSD to work, increasing a highly inefficient Short haul fleets productivity and considering another new contract (which has never seemed to bother BASSA before), and yet importantly not touching your pay.
It beggars belief and makes me hugely angry as I know plenty of people back at BA who work hard, are lovely people and are now facing uncertainty surrounding their job security due to the actions of a few loonies who are adept at, if nothing else, drumming up support through lies and spin.
Reduced Crewing and Product - already in place at LGW
and they have less days off, fixed links, standard short turnarounds, mixed flying, no restrictive disruption agreement, usually minimum rest.
Add to this a whole host of other efficiency changes made by the crew at LGW and yes you will understand by incredulity that BASSA are calling a strike ballot over asking the CSD to work, increasing a highly inefficient Short haul fleets productivity and considering another new contract (which has never seemed to bother BASSA before), and yet importantly not touching your pay.
It beggars belief and makes me hugely angry as I know plenty of people back at BA who work hard, are lovely people and are now facing uncertainty surrounding their job security due to the actions of a few loonies who are adept at, if nothing else, drumming up support through lies and spin.
Last edited by Matt101; 7th Nov 2009 at 10:11.
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flyinspanner....
Ummmmm was that a joke? Or are you seriously asking me whether the guys and girls stacking shelves to make ends meet would turn down a very good flying job with BA on reduced T's and C's to help ensure the companies survival?
Persoanlly....bloody right I would! The other option is to go and give Michael O'Leary £30k upfront for a type rating and then get put on Brookfield's Temp Contract with no gurantee of consistent work and hence pay let alone crew meals, cups of tea, uniform, medicals, training or anything else you need to do the job.
I'm guessing you're not a pilot or if you are you are imensely out of touch with the real world. If you're cabin crew then I'll offer right now to pay the £99 for you to go and apply for the Ryanair Cabin Crew scheme where you then pay for your own training, uniform, meals bla bla bla same as the pilots.
Wake up!!!!
Ummmmm was that a joke? Or are you seriously asking me whether the guys and girls stacking shelves to make ends meet would turn down a very good flying job with BA on reduced T's and C's to help ensure the companies survival?
Persoanlly....bloody right I would! The other option is to go and give Michael O'Leary £30k upfront for a type rating and then get put on Brookfield's Temp Contract with no gurantee of consistent work and hence pay let alone crew meals, cups of tea, uniform, medicals, training or anything else you need to do the job.
I'm guessing you're not a pilot or if you are you are imensely out of touch with the real world. If you're cabin crew then I'll offer right now to pay the £99 for you to go and apply for the Ryanair Cabin Crew scheme where you then pay for your own training, uniform, meals bla bla bla same as the pilots.
Wake up!!!!
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HiFlyer14 said - "LGW....... I totally agree with you about the need for negotation - but as Midman pointed out, why oh why haven't they negotiated so far? Walking out of slideshows, refusing to be in the same room as Amicus reps, turning up late, come on.....you seem like a reasonable person...you must see that they have brought this upon us unnecessarily?"
Whether you agree or disagree with how BASSA has handled the dispute the fact is that the company are changing your contract without your consent.You obviously strongly disagree with how BASSA has handled it,and thats your choice and you're entitled to it.We live in a democracy after all.
But you shouldn't vote in the ballot on how you think BASSA has handled the situation,but how the company is imposing changes to our contract.I don't agree 100% with BASAA on some issues,but I do know if we don't take a stand now,we (BA cabin crew) will be leaving to door open for the company to impose whatever they want,when ever they want.And if they get away with it at IFCE then they start doing the same with in other departments in BA.
Forget about how the situation has been handled.Thats in the past.But what is clear is that BA want to make changes to my contract without me having any say in it.And they want to do the same to you,and the rest of IFCE as well !! We cannot let this happen.This is were we have to make our stand ! I can't emphasise this enough.
This is why I'll be using my right to protest at this imposition and voting for industrial action in the ballot ! And I say that with a heavy heart !
(BTW.How the hell do you quote on this thing ?)
Whether you agree or disagree with how BASSA has handled the dispute the fact is that the company are changing your contract without your consent.You obviously strongly disagree with how BASSA has handled it,and thats your choice and you're entitled to it.We live in a democracy after all.
But you shouldn't vote in the ballot on how you think BASSA has handled the situation,but how the company is imposing changes to our contract.I don't agree 100% with BASAA on some issues,but I do know if we don't take a stand now,we (BA cabin crew) will be leaving to door open for the company to impose whatever they want,when ever they want.And if they get away with it at IFCE then they start doing the same with in other departments in BA.
Forget about how the situation has been handled.Thats in the past.But what is clear is that BA want to make changes to my contract without me having any say in it.And they want to do the same to you,and the rest of IFCE as well !! We cannot let this happen.This is were we have to make our stand ! I can't emphasise this enough.
This is why I'll be using my right to protest at this imposition and voting for industrial action in the ballot ! And I say that with a heavy heart !
(BTW.How the hell do you quote on this thing ?)
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LGW - wrap '[quote]' round the words you wish to quote..
Also, BA can oppose whatever changes they want, at any time, that is why you have a union that speaks on behalf of all it's members. but the fact is BASSA wouldn't negotiate with BA so left them no other option.
Don't forget that BA have to reduce costs in this recession so BASSA have to do their bit too!
Also, BA can oppose whatever changes they want, at any time, that is why you have a union that speaks on behalf of all it's members. but the fact is BASSA wouldn't negotiate with BA so left them no other option.
Don't forget that BA have to reduce costs in this recession so BASSA have to do their bit too!
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PPRuNe Person
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LGW: you are missing the point when you say 'Whether you agree or disagree with how BASSA has handled the dispute the fact is that the company are changing your contract without your consent.'
The whole point is that because BASSA wouldn't negotiate the company now have to impose to reach their target.
I really think that the BASSA reps thought that if they spun it out for long enough, the problem would go away.
The whole point is that because BASSA wouldn't negotiate the company now have to impose to reach their target.
I really think that the BASSA reps thought that if they spun it out for long enough, the problem would go away.
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Lord Daddy Flash your post highlights the utter ignorance that is so prevalent in this thread. However your not alone.
A company can not impose what they like if its in breach of contract. There are laws in this country and if there was no case to answer it would not be going to trial in February.
Fair enough if you disagree with how negotiations have been conducted on either side of the fence. But to post rubbish and wallow in it to make yourselves feel better is foolish in the extreme.
A company can not impose what they like if its in breach of contract. There are laws in this country and if there was no case to answer it would not be going to trial in February.
Fair enough if you disagree with how negotiations have been conducted on either side of the fence. But to post rubbish and wallow in it to make yourselves feel better is foolish in the extreme.
Last edited by am i bothered; 7th Nov 2009 at 12:49.
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It would appear that the judge is not convinced that the imposition is a breach of contract, otherwise he'd have granted the injunction there and then. Reports from within the courtroom suggest that Unites evidence hinged on some dog-eared contacts that were 30+ years old!
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Because throwing it out was not an option. BA and Unite agreed to thrash it out in court, throwing the case out of court was not an option open to the judge. Throwing the injunction request out was an option, and exactly what he did. There was no mention in the court proceedings of fast-tracking the case. The only people using the term 'fast track' are the Unite/BASSA spin doctors. I don't have an argument, I'm merely reporting the facts of the case.
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Your reporting the facts of the case?? So one can only presume you were in attendance then??
Again the argument you present is floored. The judge would have an option to throw the case out if necessary. There are serious issues that need to be addressed which is why it is going to a full trial. Many cases dont go that far.
Again the argument you present is floored. The judge would have an option to throw the case out if necessary. There are serious issues that need to be addressed which is why it is going to a full trial. Many cases dont go that far.
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No but I know a man who was, and I trust his account of events far more than I do Unite, who are trying to put a brave face on a disappointing day in court. The judge said he was not minded to grant the injunction.