BA and Project Columbus II
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I honestly do not believe BASSA have their fingers in their ears. They are willing to be involved with change if only the company would be willing to meet and share information with them. At present it seems that ICE management are determined that from this point on any change, be it hot towels or a total rewrite of t&cs, will be imposed and any later arguments ignored.
The current economic climate is also fortunate for BA. Columbus was in the pipeline whilst we were making historic profits. The plan is for long term change. Who knows how long the recession will last but the benefits of columbus will most likely be felt as the market improves.
It is also fortunate that the leadership team and dircetors took their payrise in october/november last year, now that Walsh has stated there will be no payrise this year.
The current economic climate is also fortunate for BA. Columbus was in the pipeline whilst we were making historic profits. The plan is for long term change. Who knows how long the recession will last but the benefits of columbus will most likely be felt as the market improves.
It is also fortunate that the leadership team and dircetors took their payrise in october/november last year, now that Walsh has stated there will be no payrise this year.
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Thank you for at last answering the questions raised.
I have just have a game of tennis with 2 CC colleagues, and they were both under the impression that they would be fined by BASSA if they decided to operated outside of their contract, and 1 is a CSD with 23 years in the company.
If it helps the D of FO refuses to enter into any discussion with his pilots, they must all have been reading the same manual
I have just have a game of tennis with 2 CC colleagues, and they were both under the impression that they would be fined by BASSA if they decided to operated outside of their contract, and 1 is a CSD with 23 years in the company.
If it helps the D of FO refuses to enter into any discussion with his pilots, they must all have been reading the same manual
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That really does defy comprehension. How can anyone think that they can be fined by a union?? 
Trouble is, I bet that no-one from BASSA is in any hurry to explain to them the error of their ways. Hmm.
Trouble is, I bet that no-one from BASSA is in any hurry to explain to them the error of their ways. Hmm.
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From citigroup
I am sure the city are already partially privy to WW cost restructuring ambitions, but something is in the pipeline.
Citigroup acknowledged that sales in future months would be weak but said it expected BA to announce cost restructuring plans and described the airline as “as industry survivor” that would benefit from other mergers in the sector and gain from weaker airlines once the downturn was over.
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I believe that you are not fined but'branched'. Once again I think this amounts to having your union card torn up? The ultimate risk may be that you cannot in theory join another union. Would this not be illegal? I doiubt it is as dramatic as being 'black balled'?
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Well, I have just been reading an extract from the BASSA forum, and time and time again the issue of "fines" come up, yet the moderator,, is strangely silent on the subject of "fines"
Last edited by Da Dog; 11th Feb 2009 at 02:32.
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its all blinkin' sad to me. The arguements here bear no resembelance to 99.9% of the guys and girls that i work with .It does seem to me like a case of a union trying to whip up angst to justify it's own existance.On the other side,make no mistake ,Willie is a capitalist through and through ,give in to him,he will walk all over you,game over .Surely,a compromise is not impossible............
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They are willing to be involved with change if only the company would be willing to meet and share information with them.
As another poster put it better than I can, it's difficult to negotiate sensibly when you have a loaded gun at your temple...
PS: just had a beer in JFK with some very nice BA crew who are very frustrated with BASSA's 'bull in a china shop' approach
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Hi Everyone. Probably not the place to ask, and i don't want to open a 'can-of-worms' but I'd heard through a friend that B.A. were considering taking direct entry purser/C.S.D. depending on the circumstances of the company and the current economic climate..? I know that these positions will be on new contracts, apparantly on a mixed fleet..? I just wondered if anyone knew what the contracts might be like..? ie; pay, flight pay, benefits (if there are any) & is it all performance related..? As this is probably sensitive information, if anyone wants to private message me, I'd be only too pleased. Thanks very much guys. 
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Realistically I don't think there's a hope in hell of BA employing direct entry senior crew, it's just a brainstorming idea that's being used to scare the employees. There are more than enough capable crew already employed by BA who could fill the Columbus requirements willingly.
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Well, I thought that.. I couldn't see how they'd do that and not piss everybody off in the process by bringing in 'outsiders' when there's enough good people already.. I just heard that the contracts at LGW were not very good and, but they were alot better at LHR. I left B.A. quite a while ago now, but I did enjoy my 5 years there. They are an excellent company to work for & I would recommend them. Mind you, I'd recommend this lot I work for now, they're also pretty good too! 
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I understand protectionism. I understand the value of favourable T&Cs. 
...but, can I refer you all to the final paragraph (post 101) made by EYXW. IMHO a beautifully straight arrow through the heart of the issue.
nurj
...but, can I refer you all to the final paragraph (post 101) made by EYXW. IMHO a beautifully straight arrow through the heart of the issue.
nurj
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SuperStewardess.
It was written in the 'leaked' document that direct entry senior crew was a consideration. The point of columbus/Focus on costs is to change conditions. So whether the titles CSD/Purser are kept or not I would imagine that the t&cs would be very different to what you remember 5 years ago. I agree BA was a good place to work 5 years ago, but seems ready to implode, at least in Inflight Cabin Experience (IfCE), at present.
Something positive though. The head of ICE has delayed any announcements whilst he enters into dialogue with the heads of the TUs. Fingers crossed for an amicable outcome.
It was written in the 'leaked' document that direct entry senior crew was a consideration. The point of columbus/Focus on costs is to change conditions. So whether the titles CSD/Purser are kept or not I would imagine that the t&cs would be very different to what you remember 5 years ago. I agree BA was a good place to work 5 years ago, but seems ready to implode, at least in Inflight Cabin Experience (IfCE), at present.
Something positive though. The head of ICE has delayed any announcements whilst he enters into dialogue with the heads of the TUs. Fingers crossed for an amicable outcome.
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I understand that there is unrest with flight attendants as the company has asked them to hand out hot towels in the Premium Economy cabin. I am totally stunned at this and to be honest from an outsider it seems indefensible.
I am not 100% sure how many seats are in that part of the aircraft but i would imagine no more than 50! Seriously how long will this take to achieve and how can the BA as a business hope to progress if the crew and trade unions are blocking such minor requests.
I can only imagine that if this made its way into the public domain via the media that this would make the BA crew and the Trade Unions a complete laughing stock. People around the world are losing jobs, taking pay cuts, working longer with less staff and the BA union and flight attendants are up in arms about handing the customers a hot towel.
It appears to me that this union seem to think that they should be consulted on every minor detail! Seriously how can a business run like this during the good times, never mind during this horrific downturn we all find ourselves in.
I would understand the uproar if they were asking the flight attendants to do something totally unreasonable. However I have lost count of the amount of times I have been in the galley stretching my legs on a long haul flight and witnessed the crew reading a newspaper or the Hello magazine. I know the what my reaction would be if I discovered my employees doing this!
I can only suggest that this type of militant attitude will only strengthen the resolve of the company and make them more determined that ever to push through changes.
I really think the the flight attendants union need to start watching BBC 24 and witness the bleak picture that is facing the world, support the company in enhancing the product and doing everything in their power to help save money, this 'may' in turn save jobs. Times are hard and other airlines are just waiting to snap up those customers that are actually still flying.
I am not 100% sure how many seats are in that part of the aircraft but i would imagine no more than 50! Seriously how long will this take to achieve and how can the BA as a business hope to progress if the crew and trade unions are blocking such minor requests.
I can only imagine that if this made its way into the public domain via the media that this would make the BA crew and the Trade Unions a complete laughing stock. People around the world are losing jobs, taking pay cuts, working longer with less staff and the BA union and flight attendants are up in arms about handing the customers a hot towel.
It appears to me that this union seem to think that they should be consulted on every minor detail! Seriously how can a business run like this during the good times, never mind during this horrific downturn we all find ourselves in.
I would understand the uproar if they were asking the flight attendants to do something totally unreasonable. However I have lost count of the amount of times I have been in the galley stretching my legs on a long haul flight and witnessed the crew reading a newspaper or the Hello magazine. I know the what my reaction would be if I discovered my employees doing this!
I can only suggest that this type of militant attitude will only strengthen the resolve of the company and make them more determined that ever to push through changes.
I really think the the flight attendants union need to start watching BBC 24 and witness the bleak picture that is facing the world, support the company in enhancing the product and doing everything in their power to help save money, this 'may' in turn save jobs. Times are hard and other airlines are just waiting to snap up those customers that are actually still flying.
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Originally Posted by Dezso
I understand that there is unrest with flight attendants as the company has asked them to hand out hot towels in the Premium Economy cabin. I am totally stunned at this and to be honest from an outsider it seems indefensible.
I am not 100% sure how many seats are in that part of the aircraft but i would imagine no more than 50! Seriously how long will this take to achieve and how can the BA as a business hope to progress if the crew and trade unions are blocking such minor requests.
I can only imagine that if this made its way into the public domain via the media that this would make the BA crew and the Trade Unions a complete laughing stock. People around the world are losing jobs, taking pay cuts, working longer with less staff and the BA union and flight attendants are up in arms about handing the customers a hot towel.
I am not 100% sure how many seats are in that part of the aircraft but i would imagine no more than 50! Seriously how long will this take to achieve and how can the BA as a business hope to progress if the crew and trade unions are blocking such minor requests.
I can only imagine that if this made its way into the public domain via the media that this would make the BA crew and the Trade Unions a complete laughing stock. People around the world are losing jobs, taking pay cuts, working longer with less staff and the BA union and flight attendants are up in arms about handing the customers a hot towel.
It appears to me that this union seem to think that they should be consulted on every minor detail! Seriously how can a business run like this during the good times, never mind during this horrific downturn we all find ourselves in.
I would understand the uproar if they were asking the flight attendants to do something totally unreasonable. However I have lost count of the amount of times I have been in the galley stretching my legs on a long haul flight and witnessed the crew reading a newspaper or the Hello magazine. I know the what my reaction would be if I discovered my employees doing this!
I can only suggest that this type of militant attitude will only strengthen the resolve of the company and make them more determined that ever to push through changes.
I really think the the flight attendants union need to start watching BBC 24 and witness the bleak picture that is facing the world, support the company in enhancing the product and doing everything in their power to help save money, this 'may' in turn save jobs. Times are hard and other airlines are just waiting to snap up those customers that are actually still flying.
I really think the the flight attendants union need to start watching BBC 24 and witness the bleak picture that is facing the world, support the company in enhancing the product and doing everything in their power to help save money, this 'may' in turn save jobs. Times are hard and other airlines are just waiting to snap up those customers that are actually still flying.
The problem however isn't one of saving money as such. The cabin crew wages are not such a significant cost to the airline as their union-enforced inflexibility.
If I were WW I'd say let them keep the money, but make it in exchange for more flexibility.
Scrap some of the outdated agreements and pay bonuses for on time performances, etc.
No-one is going to be "worked to death" as the union seems to think as you have CAP371 to ensure this can't happen.
And maybe no longer recognise BASSA? Now THAT would take balls!
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[QUOTENo-one is going to be "worked to death" as the union seems to think as you have CAP371 to ensure this can't happen.[/QUOTE]
Have a look at CAP371, then look at your timetable, then when you have woken from your faint and realised what flying you actually could do. Have a think if you could sustain a 20 year career and have a family. If you were earning seriously vast amounts of money then overlooking the fact that your own body won't be able to keep it up for to many years, your family would not last.
6
Have a look at CAP371, then look at your timetable, then when you have woken from your faint and realised what flying you actually could do. Have a think if you could sustain a 20 year career and have a family. If you were earning seriously vast amounts of money then overlooking the fact that your own body won't be able to keep it up for to many years, your family would not last.
6
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Thats quite simply because the flying program used by the short haul operators have fairly similar flight times and no time changes so there is a huge difference compared to an airline that operates 45 min flights right through to 14 hr flights and possible times zones in between duties of 18 hrs.
Trying to compare BA with a short haul LO CO carrier can't be done. CAP 371 cannot work for long term viability of crew in any airline that has a mixed flying program of short haul, mid haul and long haul. Or indeed any combination of the three.
6
Trying to compare BA with a short haul LO CO carrier can't be done. CAP 371 cannot work for long term viability of crew in any airline that has a mixed flying program of short haul, mid haul and long haul. Or indeed any combination of the three.
6
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You win.
I bow to your greater knowledge of crewing procedures, CAP371 and flight time limitations.
(I'll conveniently forget the fact that I work for an airline that combines long haul, mid haul and short haul, because it can't be done, apparently)
I can't be bothered to argue this one any more. I hope everyone gets something of what they want. I'll watch the outcome with interest.
I bow to your greater knowledge of crewing procedures, CAP371 and flight time limitations.
(I'll conveniently forget the fact that I work for an airline that combines long haul, mid haul and short haul, because it can't be done, apparently)
I can't be bothered to argue this one any more. I hope everyone gets something of what they want. I'll watch the outcome with interest.