BA and Project Columbus II
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Perhaps if CSDs knew the rules we'd all be better off.
On my last trip the CSD told me the time the cabin crew had to be off duty, but I upset her by telling her that scheme was actually more limiting and she and our crew would be out of hours earlier than she thought.
No, she said, Bassa rules allowed her to extend beyond scheme by 1.30!!!!
That's from a (overpaid) CSD! Useless!
On my last trip the CSD told me the time the cabin crew had to be off duty, but I upset her by telling her that scheme was actually more limiting and she and our crew would be out of hours earlier than she thought.
No, she said, Bassa rules allowed her to extend beyond scheme by 1.30!!!!
That's from a (overpaid) CSD! Useless!
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Keep digging your hole charliepie
err........ I think the information I choose to impart does pertain to my day to day profession
........ and yes I do know most of it off the top of my head....... its what I am paid to do.
You were the one who did not know the rules
You were the one who choose to display your ignorance of them on a public forum
I hope you take greater interest and pride in your day to day responsibilities than you choose to display in this forum
Sadly I think you don't have a clue
Now back to the great explorer
err........ I think the information I choose to impart does pertain to my day to day profession
........ and yes I do know most of it off the top of my head....... its what I am paid to do.You were the one who did not know the rules
You were the one who choose to display your ignorance of them on a public forum
I hope you take greater interest and pride in your day to day responsibilities than you choose to display in this forum
Sadly I think you don't have a clue
Now back to the great explorer
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Excuse me Captain, but admirable though your liberal use of Smilies is, if you'd care to step aside, I think I can speak in his native tongue:
Charliepie:
Pwned.
"Pwned" be pronounced as "owned" or as "poned", with both pronunciations being correct. In some cases, you will even hear it pronounced as "pawned". "Pwned" means "to be controlled against your will", or "to be defeated by a superior power". You might also hear the expression, "pwnage", which is the noun version of "being pwned".
Urban Dictionary: pwned
Charliepie:
Pwned.
"Pwned" be pronounced as "owned" or as "poned", with both pronunciations being correct. In some cases, you will even hear it pronounced as "pawned". "Pwned" means "to be controlled against your will", or "to be defeated by a superior power". You might also hear the expression, "pwnage", which is the noun version of "being pwned".
Urban Dictionary: pwned
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Interesting that BASSA have suggested a name and shame policy. You'd think they'd have learned the dangers of running an online witch hunt after the problems they got into when they tried it with a BA captain (who, incidentally, got a large libel payout from the Daily Mail after they printed the allegations).
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Seems I've got this all wrong. This thread is quite simply 'BA cabin crew are all Sh*t.'
Well I'm BA cabin crew and I agree there are a few who may be considered thus. But I can also tell you that some cabin crew from other operators are also sh*t. And indeed some BA pilots, engineers, cleaners and managers.
I like pprune for what I can learn, but this thread has offered nothing but opinion. Opinion, I can take or leave, it doesn't matter unless you are the two opposing people negotiating.
Actually I have learned something. Where to avoid hatred and contempt.
I'm off for a beer now.
Well I'm BA cabin crew and I agree there are a few who may be considered thus. But I can also tell you that some cabin crew from other operators are also sh*t. And indeed some BA pilots, engineers, cleaners and managers.
I like pprune for what I can learn, but this thread has offered nothing but opinion. Opinion, I can take or leave, it doesn't matter unless you are the two opposing people negotiating.
Actually I have learned something. Where to avoid hatred and contempt.
I'm off for a beer now.
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PC767, whats up? Been out argued, by reasoned sensible debate? This is not the BASSA forum,where everyone hears what they want, you might be suprised that there are other points of view.
Perhaps if you and other cabin crew who post on here did not contradict yourselves, answered questions in a sensible and reasoned manner, and had a bit more respect for your chosen profession by knowing some of the basic rules, as opposed to showing your ignorance of them on a public forum, then people perception might change.
How about this one? Its second hand information and not something I can pass as fact, but it was told to me by a long haul purser; A cabin crew member stuck in PIK and living south of GLA asked BASSA if she could go the 30 miles home, guess what they said NO
Perhaps if you and other cabin crew who post on here did not contradict yourselves, answered questions in a sensible and reasoned manner, and had a bit more respect for your chosen profession by knowing some of the basic rules, as opposed to showing your ignorance of them on a public forum, then people perception might change.
How about this one? Its second hand information and not something I can pass as fact, but it was told to me by a long haul purser; A cabin crew member stuck in PIK and living south of GLA asked BASSA if she could go the 30 miles home, guess what they said NO
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A cabin crew member stuck in PIK and living south of GLA asked BASSA if she could go the 30 miles home, guess what they said NO
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Is that someone's toys I see on the floor below that pram? 
No-one's said BA cabin Crew are "Sh*t".
It's just that some of them are evidently too infantile to admit when they're wrong.
No-one's said BA cabin Crew are "Sh*t".
It's just that some of them are evidently too infantile to admit when they're wrong.
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That is just absurd. An adult wasn't allowed to go home because her union said so? Putting aside the question of why she even bothered to ask them it seems the lunatics are running the asylum egged on by some of the less balanced inmates.
If this infantile level of behaviour can be proven then it's about time someone reined these cretins in.
Jacquilinee. Why would management have cared? If a crew member is not available to work why gives a fig where they are? In fact, why not save the cost of an hotel room? Oh, sorry. I forgot, union rules
If this infantile level of behaviour can be proven then it's about time someone reined these cretins in.
Jacquilinee. Why would management have cared? If a crew member is not available to work why gives a fig where they are? In fact, why not save the cost of an hotel room? Oh, sorry. I forgot, union rules
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Quote:
A cabin crew member stuck in PIK and living south of GLA asked BASSA if she could go the 30 miles home, guess what they said NO
The reason for this would be the two local night rule which is implented. If cabin crew members start going home whenever it suits them, the management will take notice of them. Either you stick to the rules or not, which includes both parties. Why should one party breach the rules if it's for their benefit and other times go mad when the other party tries somethimg similiar?
A cabin crew member stuck in PIK and living south of GLA asked BASSA if she could go the 30 miles home, guess what they said NO
The reason for this would be the two local night rule which is implented. If cabin crew members start going home whenever it suits them, the management will take notice of them. Either you stick to the rules or not, which includes both parties. Why should one party breach the rules if it's for their benefit and other times go mad when the other party tries somethimg similiar?
They are rules which can be changed during disruption, and they should be. You must admit, Jacquelinee, it does look bad to the customers when you do that?
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Classic, nope Jaquelinee won't admit it
She/he is not allowed to
It might get them fined or even worse expelled from BASSA
Common sense is not allowed when you can mess around 300+ passangers who pay our wages
She/he is not allowed to
It might get them fined or even worse expelled from BASSA
Common sense is not allowed when you can mess around 300+ passangers who pay our wages
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[QUOTE]Jacquilinee. Why would management have cared? If a crew member is not available to work why gives a fig where they are? In fact, why not save the cost of an hotel room? Oh, sorry. I forgot, union rules [/UNION]
Because the management would realise that rules can be bent whenever it benefits us.
It does! I'm not saying it doesn't and customers do pay our wages and we should look after them. This is also what happened when the airport in BKK was blocked last year and the cabin crew insisted in two local nights (even though that there were some crew that ACTUALLY wanted to go home earlier. A friend of mine was one of those), resulting that aircraft went empty from SIN to LHR and leaving stranded pax behind.
Because the management would realise that rules can be bent whenever it benefits us.
They are rules which can be changed during disruption, and they should be. You must admit, Jacquelinee, it does look bad to the customers when you do that?
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Flintstone:
You're making the classic schoolboy error of trying to apply common sense and reason to the situation.
That sort of thing may be all fine and dandy in the rarefied atmosphere of the Biz Jet world, but it will not be tolerated here.
If BASSA says "Jump" they all say "How high?"
You're making the classic schoolboy error of trying to apply common sense and reason to the situation.
That sort of thing may be all fine and dandy in the rarefied atmosphere of the Biz Jet world, but it will not be tolerated here.
If BASSA says "Jump" they all say "How high?"
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...even though that there were some crew that ACTUALLY wanted to go home earlier...
Either you stick to the rules or not, which includes both parties.
...customers do pay our wages and we should look after them.
You can't have it both ways. Which is it, jacquelinee?
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Originally Posted by Charliepie
...Neither do I, making the effort to look up the 'guidance' and then post it on a forum which is not pertaining to his job..........infinite sadness.
Said Captain then posts a link (For your edification and enlightenment, seeing as you expressed a "Genuine interest" not two pages back) of where that rule is located in the operating manual.
You then come back and stick to your guns that he is indeed "sad" for posting the info "...on a forum which is not pertaining to his job"
Exactly whose job does it pertain to then, if not to the job of the bloke who's held accountable in the eyes of the law???
You really are tying yourselves in knots here, aren't you? And you wonder why people perceive cabin crew as being complete t***s.
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You then come back and stick to your guns that he is indeed "sad" for posting the info "...on a forum which is not pertaining to his job".
I guess we are in the right place after all.
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Out argued. Not in the slightest, because thus far this hasn't been an argument.
It has decended into a group rant. And if I'm flinging toys out of my pram, suddenly I see why the little boys are ranting - because it seems that my toys are hitting them as they crawl around the floor. The lastest high brow remark from the 'intelligencia' - cabin crew are tw*ts. Oh, I know you didn't actually say that, but the inference was clear.
And cabin crew going home when the aircraft hasn't landed at base. Can't have it both ways. I have personal experience of this situation when my flight terminated short of LHR at MAN. I lived 20 minutes from MAN. But it wasn't BASSA who stated no when the request was made to go home. It was BA. The rule is quite clear - for cabin crew. Duties are finished at base. I'm not the only one who has been in this position either.
Common sense. I agree it is lacking but from all parties. Agreements have been made by all parties and cannot simply ignored at will. The problem is one party will see precedents being set and believe that agreements can just be scrapped as pleased. And in a company as large as BA agreements are akin to laws to protect the opertion, company and individual. You simply cannot manage a community of 14,000 adhoc. Do they need changing, well yes but it must be a properly negotiated change for all and not adhoc to suit an individual or worse at the command of a third party. The company were not forced into the agreements they have, they hold the purse strings after all, the upper hand. At some stage they either deemed agreements to be necessary or amiable. Good management should really have recognised operational change and foreseen that a re-negotiation was necessary long before a crisis hit.
Finally assumptions about what type of crew member I am are far from the mark. I am not a flag waving unionist. I am a BASSA member but do not always agree with them, much the same as I do not always agree with my political party of choice, nor my wife! What came first, the chicken or the egg? Relations between the company and the TUs are in rapid decline. Is this because in the last 2 years the company has been dismisive of it's employees and hardline in policy or because the unions have beome increasingly militant. We will all have different answers to this point. From my point of view it is because the Walsh era has seen delibrate provocation of the unions. For my flight deck colleagues I'll mention, only once, OpenSkies. Something has to give and soon. The concensus here is that BASSA will break. You are entitled to your opinion and I agree that the outlook for BASSA and cabin crew is bleak, but I don't believe it is the end. I see comprimises, including those of the company. Stand back and you will see a classic overbearing adult and naughty child senario. Both parties having been moved to their new positions from an equal reasonable adult stance. The views expressed throught this thread are not the type to return either party to being reasonable. I hope no-one here is involved in negotiations.
It has decended into a group rant. And if I'm flinging toys out of my pram, suddenly I see why the little boys are ranting - because it seems that my toys are hitting them as they crawl around the floor. The lastest high brow remark from the 'intelligencia' - cabin crew are tw*ts. Oh, I know you didn't actually say that, but the inference was clear.
And cabin crew going home when the aircraft hasn't landed at base. Can't have it both ways. I have personal experience of this situation when my flight terminated short of LHR at MAN. I lived 20 minutes from MAN. But it wasn't BASSA who stated no when the request was made to go home. It was BA. The rule is quite clear - for cabin crew. Duties are finished at base. I'm not the only one who has been in this position either.
Common sense. I agree it is lacking but from all parties. Agreements have been made by all parties and cannot simply ignored at will. The problem is one party will see precedents being set and believe that agreements can just be scrapped as pleased. And in a company as large as BA agreements are akin to laws to protect the opertion, company and individual. You simply cannot manage a community of 14,000 adhoc. Do they need changing, well yes but it must be a properly negotiated change for all and not adhoc to suit an individual or worse at the command of a third party. The company were not forced into the agreements they have, they hold the purse strings after all, the upper hand. At some stage they either deemed agreements to be necessary or amiable. Good management should really have recognised operational change and foreseen that a re-negotiation was necessary long before a crisis hit.
Finally assumptions about what type of crew member I am are far from the mark. I am not a flag waving unionist. I am a BASSA member but do not always agree with them, much the same as I do not always agree with my political party of choice, nor my wife! What came first, the chicken or the egg? Relations between the company and the TUs are in rapid decline. Is this because in the last 2 years the company has been dismisive of it's employees and hardline in policy or because the unions have beome increasingly militant. We will all have different answers to this point. From my point of view it is because the Walsh era has seen delibrate provocation of the unions. For my flight deck colleagues I'll mention, only once, OpenSkies. Something has to give and soon. The concensus here is that BASSA will break. You are entitled to your opinion and I agree that the outlook for BASSA and cabin crew is bleak, but I don't believe it is the end. I see comprimises, including those of the company. Stand back and you will see a classic overbearing adult and naughty child senario. Both parties having been moved to their new positions from an equal reasonable adult stance. The views expressed throught this thread are not the type to return either party to being reasonable. I hope no-one here is involved in negotiations.
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Nice rant, I see the beer has chilled you out pc767
Answer this question, in the past BASSA have issued alleviations to allow onward journey after 1 nights rest, what was different this time?
I put it to you that BASSA deliberately stuck to the 2 nights rule out of bloody mindedness because they know there is a bigger fight over the horizon, it suits to keep the troops in line. Their behaviour last week is akin to their response to the catering strike during the first 48 hours.
How do BA properly negotiate with the gun of strike action against their head?(its a genuine question) This has been the case since 1997.
Its called working for a large company, the sooner you realize that you are just a number the better. Its not the ideal, but unfortunately its the reality
Answer this question, in the past BASSA have issued alleviations to allow onward journey after 1 nights rest, what was different this time?
I put it to you that BASSA deliberately stuck to the 2 nights rule out of bloody mindedness because they know there is a bigger fight over the horizon, it suits to keep the troops in line. Their behaviour last week is akin to their response to the catering strike during the first 48 hours.
Do they need changing, well yes but it must be a properly negotiated change for all and not adhoc to suit an individual or worse at the command of a third party. The company were not forced into the agreements they have, they hold the purse strings after all, the upper hand. At some stage they either deemed agreements to be necessary or amiable. Good management should really have recognised operational change and foreseen that a re-negotiation was necessary long before a crisis hit.
Is this because in the last 2 years the company has been dismisive of it's employees