QANTAS - Establishment of QD

[Domestos]

Cartexchange

Hi there cartX...I answered your question re: girt bar in our thread under D & G....hope this satisfies any morbid curiosities? lol

I am on the lookout for any virgins out there who are willing to be offered up as sacrifice to the God(s) of Divisional Transfer. Must be current in EPs, have up to date knowledge of this month's The Source and Cabin Crew News. Preference will be given to those with bun tossing skills (wholemeal and sour dough varieties). I have resorted to sacrificing virgins to appease the Gods now....my previous attempts at offering my bedroom services to the departing CEO was politely declined.

My mate told me some MAM casuals have already been interviewed for QD. They were informed that the terms and conditions will be revealed to them after they sign up. Applications for MAM casuals close mid January apparently. Hello QD recruiters!!!!!! Do you really think people are that desperate to give you a blank cheque to sign? Lets hope that the QD recruiters aren't as picky as they were when they interviewed MAMs for QCCA. I heard people were being rejected....only to find weeks later that they were being called up to reconsider! Hello recruiters!!!! People have dignity you know!!!!! Its not like you are offerring a fabulous job with a harbour view corner office, a secretary, and a company provided Audi A6 and platinum Amex....(in which case, I would happily be a door mat that Qantas can wipe their feet on).

I find it irretrievably absurd that recruiters are making MAM casuals sit for an interview for a position at QD. Hello!!!! Were the recruiters busy picking the lint out of their belly buttons when our MAM colleagues were working with us all these years??????? Get a grip QD....our MAM colleagues are hard workers and they deserve every modicum of respect so treat them accordingly please!!!!!!!!!!!!

[blow.n.gasket]

I wonder what the Qantas Domestic new hires will be called?
QANDOMS?

[skyshow]

Just out of curiosity, who will want this?

Sistema, totally agree. One could get a full time position at Virgin Blue for example, on more pay (already more than QCCA let alone what QD will be)and for same hours (currently same duty limitations) with additional benefits, eg: bidding.

But, just like any new entity/airline workforce, it will always be one step below the last, with young new budding hopefuls willing to fill spots. As always of late, its a race to the bottom.

[Little_Red_Hat]

Gasket, CLASSIC!!!!!

Totally agree, why should current S/H crew have to interview for a job they already do... they have the personnel files, they have BPRs, customer letters, blah blah blah... look at them, toss the ones with no reasonable reasons for high sick leave, or too many disciplinaries and let the rest who want to transfer, transfer.

I'll take a look at what they're offerring, why not- what?? They want to what? Make me wait until I accept before I can see what's on offer? I seriously hope that isn't true, they will have a lot of people laughing in their faces

I heard from a fairly reputable source that it will be a similar setup to QCCA in regards to bidding- that is, none. So I suppose it might be better for MAMs to stay where they are if they want any modicum on control over their home life. I'll take 3 consecutive days off over no choice of anything!

Does anyone think they'll resort to 'join QD or there may not be a position for you' anymore, or in the rumour that MAM hours will drop to the minimum 80 hours? It seems to have happened to a lot of crew already for the Jan rosters... I thought Jan is traditionally busy...?

[Domestos]

Skyshow

You are right. It is interesting when you visit the QD recruitment website how desperate Qantas sounds when they scrape the bottom of the barrel in trying to advertise the benefits:

1. "Working Environment": it states "exciting and flexible". Clearly a blatant lie....there is absolutely no flexibility at all because there will be no bidding, no control of your roster or how you are allocated work or any means of input.

2. "Enjoy Travel": perhaps the company's only best selling point....Staff Travel.

3. "Be Recognised": this one is really, really lame. Somehow they think they can convince people to join because there is a reward program called eXcel....which really is a pin on your lapel and a monetary gift voucher. What a lame selling point this is...hardly enough to make people jump out of their skins.

4. "Uniform": oh please...another lame selling point. Do you really think the police force advertise the fact that you get to wear a uniform in order to entice you to join? Do you really think that Westfield outlines how exciting it would be to wear their uniform if you are applying to be a food court janitor? Get a grip QD! A uniform is hardly a selling point. if you really want to make this one stick...perhaps throw in "we'll even dry clean your uniform for free", maybe then people might give validity to this point.

5. "Further Education": this is a blatant lie. Qantas College is not a higher education body that confers qualifications, clearly the angle that Qantas is pitching at. In reality, Qantas College have cut back courses for staff and only conduct courses that are mandatory for certain parts of the organisation...cabin crew are not one of them. Qantas College is mainly a training facility that QF sub-contracts out to third parties...it is no longer what it used to be.

6. "Finance": another weak selling point. Becoming a staff credit union member is hardly a strong selling point in order to win over potential applicants. The benefits of "a competitive range of products and services" is intrinsic to being a credit union member, not intrinsic to being a QD flight attendant.

7. "Health and Wellbeing": a blantant lie. With the high hour rosters that QD will promulgate, one will definitely not enjoy health and wellbeing....more like fatigue. The provision of "discounted fitness memberships, insurance and childcare" from the Employee Assistance Program is somewhat of a misnomer...I have not seen this advertised openly for existing staff, and if it has been, then it would be some obscure weblink that is embedded deep, deep, deep, within the Qantas Intranet site.

8. "Supporting our Community": another weak selling point. How does QD attract potential flight attendants by advertising its social responsibility to the greater society? More to the point...what has this really got to do with being a flight attendant for QD?????? OK, so Qantas has an environmental policy called "BeGreen"......AND???...how does this DIRECTLY relate to being a flight attendant with QD???? Also...how does Qantas' support for charities got anything to do with trying to convince people to sign up to be FA with QD???? Where is the direct beneficial link??????

9. "Sport and Culture": a potential applicant says to him/herself "Oh goodie....I see there is a Qantas Lawn Bowls team...I'm definitely going to apply to be a flight attendant with QD....I want to be a part of this team".....oh please, get me an inflight sick bag. Do you really think people are gonna be leaping for an application form simply because there are recreational sport teams organised by certain employees at QCC Mascot? I mean really...with the amount of flying that QD will do, there will hardly be any time to sleep or eat, let alone play sports.

10. "Keeping up to date": I nearly fell off my chair in laughter when I read this selling point: "Regular publications, newsletters and information websites are available to all employees to help them keep up to date with the latest Qantas news, events and cabin crew standards ensuring every employee is up to date with the latest of ideas and headlines."

As one can see...all 10 selling points for QD are totally weak and lame. There is obviously no mention of a 'competitive salary' cos clearly, there is none. The only thing that Qantas can rely on to sell this deal to people is the fact that you get staff travel and a Morrissey uniform to wear. Granted, the fine details of this package have yet to be fleshed out....but really, do you think that it will get significantly better?source: www.qantasdomestic.com.au

[Whitelighter12345]

muffin ?

Domestos, no muffin, it has shrinked to mini pink cupcakes! enjoy...

[QF skywalker]

Domestos - can you and I please buddy bid ? I need a good laugh.

I really hope whomever composed the QD website has a chance to read your response. Hilarious and TRUE.

[ditzyboy]

The shorthaul union were really dumb to not include QD in their EBA - at least the Longahul union got the QCCA agreement as part of the QAL Longhaul EBA- so the two have to be negotiated together

cartexchange -

Some would view the ability for QCCA to vote alongside QAL-LH on a common EBA document as a 'really dumb' move by the Longhaul FAAA. When QCCA out-number QAL-LH crew do you honestly expect them to support the people on the A-scale pay if it means bolstering their own salaries and conditions? Especially when everyone employed under that document does the SAME job!

I, for one, prefer that QD have no voting rights on our EBA (to which I voted no). Ideally there would be no QD, but that's out of our hands now. At least the SH EBA (as varied) has clauses protecting the daily duty hour limitations of QD. That is some consolation.

As far as T&Cs for QD it will be VERY interesting. Will they go the Virgin Blue/Jetstar (ex-Impulse) conditions? Or will they go along the lines of Team JQ or something else again?

[Door_One_Right]

I can see them offering something akin to a 'Team Qantas Domestic' package.

Their recruitment page is also asking for photos in uniform or business attire. Is that normal for Qantas? I didn't think that was allowed in Australia but I could be wrong.

[flitegirl]

It's legal to ask for a photo to be included for a job application.

Ditzy,

I couldn't have said it better myself. It is definitely safer that QD don't have voting rights for our EBA 7 Varied, unlike the QCCA crew who are included in the long haul EBA

[Domestos]

Whitelighter12345: Oh dear...so they've decided to do an 'Alice in Wonderland' trick on the muffins. Babes, its been a while since I've done AM refreshment on a short sector in the main cabin...so understandably I am out of touch with the culinary updates. I am better at 'tray-wrangling' [long sectors].

QF Skywalker: Babes...I'd be happy to buddy bid with you so as long as you:

1. Aren't a member of the beehives
2. Do not wear Lesbian Loafers
3. Do not use paper liners (except for taking drink orders off crew for duty free purchase and for giving out phone numbers to pax)
4. Feel at ease watching me toss a cory pot/oven rack/coffee mug down the garbage collection cart
5. Are able to spot out B.O.B. with an eagle eye
6. Do not use a silly grandma fold-away-wheelie to transport your esky bag
7. Do not use full bright lighting in the galleys...even if your life depended on it
8. Do not froth at the mouth if you see me dragging/operating a fully laden meal cart with bar on top all by myself.
9. Are comfortable using 3 drawers on top of a meal cart that is triple stacked on a regional flight. [MEL base....this one counts you out...I know you love to use only one drawer on top]
10. Can contribute to the general pool of gossip in the galleys. Any gossip is good gossip. Bonus points if the gossip involves someone sleeping with someone or someone's misfortunes (eg. demotions/being stood down/disciplinary action). I looooove gossip...being the source of it; creating it; spreading it; and adding to it.

Flitegirl and ditzboy: You are both right in your analysis of the situation and so too is Cartexchange. The truth of the matter is....both outcomes are right. QCCA will one day out vote QAL over at LH. On the other side of the coin.....even though QD is not a part of QAL, the company will still use it to their advantage by playing off one entity against the other in a sort of mini war where one tries to outdo the other. There is merit in cartexchange's argument and there is also merit in flitegirl & ditzyboy's. The company has all its bases covered to manipulate its own desired outcome. This 'power' requires very little effort on the part of Qantas....the outcome will be delivered by virtue of the arrangment that the company has set up:

1. Over at LH....the company does not have to lift a finger...they know that QCCA will someday out vote QAL.

2. Over at SH...the company does not have to lift a finger....it will siphon off multi day and DTA generating trips to QD...and gradually, SH QAL will slowly jump ship.

So...at the end of the day....no matter which division we are in SH or LH...we are both dead men/women walking.

[Domestos]

Little Red Hat

I believe the company would still need to have MAMs as part of its veritable smorgasbord offering to support the FWA system. Whether or not it will try to squeeze out MAMs is uncertain. It all depends on how they will build the rosters for QD and where MAM rosters slot in. Will they build the QAL rosters first, then MAM, and then QD or will it be QAL then QD then MAM?

I would advise our MAM colleagues to exercise caution before leaping into the QD company. Sure the lure of paid sick leave and staff travel is enticing...but make sure you weigh up what is important to you. Don't be pressured in joining up now if you smell something fishy and prefer to wait until the EBA is knuckled out. Conversely, the advantage of joining early is that you will be more 'senior' in terms of CR, should it happen. If you get in first, then people from the Regional airlines and off the street will slot in under you for the purposes of CR ordering.

[Pegasus747]

Having the QCCA AND QAL crew in the one EBA makes sound industrial sense.

THE QANDOM EBA will be at a different time to the QAL SH EBA. Therefore you will not be able to work together and take protected industrial action if QANTAS decides to screw one group or the other.

With the LH EBA both group have a symbiotic relationship and can work together and STRIKE together to protect each other

Secondary Boycotss provisions would stop that with the QANDOM group and QAL SH

It was one of the selling points of the LH EBA that crew accepted as a sound judgement call by the negotiators.

QANTAS fought very hard for a separate EBA for QCCA for that very reason and the LH FAAA would not agree.

Just another perspective. Personally i dont agree with the whole outnumbering issue. When the Red Circled chiefs and Seniors were protected in terms of income the other crew did not try to trade off their protection to benefit anyone else in fact quite the opposite.

The more QCCA and QAL crew work and respect eachother despite the differences the better chance they have of COLLECTIVE bargaining

[indamiddle]

i think it will be a huge amount of years before qcca or qandoms will be able to dominate their respective unions. with low pay and higher hours they will have neither the time nor energy to become involved let alone the turnover of thesecrew due to above positions. to quote a qcca recently, " after 6 months of flying i have had to move back to my parents home because of the pay and who wants to spend the next 5 years flying to singapore and LAX". u will probably find the same attitude with the qandoms eventually, no overnights,poor pay.

[skyshow]

" after 6 months of flying i have had to move back to my parents home because of the pay and who wants to spend the next 5 years flying to singapore and LAX".

As you know this is obviously because of the cheaper wages and the more work they do and also its not really an appealing job because its more tiring (more hours worked) and there's no financial reward for it (weekends, public holidays, no bidding, jet lag, B/First-for-free)...

Oh but you do get to wear the uniform!

So...at the end of the day....no matter which division we are in SH or LH...we are both dead men/women walking.

Isn't the number of QCCA going to beat the number of QAL in 3 years? And domestically I'm sure this will happen in years to come, meaning no power to QAL in the future. I believe you are right Domestos.

In addition, perhaps QD and QCCA crew will get a taste of this too, when Qantas decide to find a cheaper option and move everyone to that cheaper option (like MAM to QD eventually) also eg: QCCA to QCCA2 in a few years! I think a job at Qantas is safe, but conditions will never be safe in the long term - a lot of swapping and changing and this is the beginning. Australian Airlines and MAM and Jetstar EBA crew are gone/going because they're not the cheapest anymore. How long till QCCA and QD won't be as cheap?

[AirborneSoon]

Well personally I think it's a big mistake for QF to go down the road of cheap labour and high staff turnover. You cannot give someone a job they have no pride in and don't like doing and expect them to fly the flag of "worlds most experienced" & "premium" airline at the same time.

Nothing can ever cover up the fact that someone doesn't like being there or resents the conditions of their employment. You can't make it policy for someone to love their passengers, what they do and their employer. That is something that has to come from within and is born out of people feeling personally valued.

If you take a mean stand towards your employees you'll get employees that will do everything in their power to perform their duties at the bare minimum, take every opportunity to rip the company off (in lieu of decent terms and conditions) and tell your customers that they are getting a crappy experience because of management. Not exactly the way to cultivate long term business.

While I understand the drive to create a more economically flexible workforce in challenging times if you push too far it will become a false economy. You can only trade on the excitement of a newcomer to the industry to shore up your customer service for so long.

[Ka.Boom]

Reality Check

Qantas management dont give a ****e about experience,loyalty or simmering resentment in the work place.Cabin Crew are just arms and legs as far as management are concerned.
This "evolution" in the work place occurred in the States 25 years ago.In the U.S airlines are nothing more than a bus service.At least they are honest about what they offer.With Qantas its lipservice.
All this crap about wanting to be the worlds best airline is laughable.
The aircraft are dinosaurs,the IFE is rubbish;Ontime departure is abismal.
Its down to the crew to apologize and fix the phuckups.
If you are paid less and have less agreeable conditions are you really going to give two ****z?
Shop party bonk leave...Churn and burn.
You will probably end up with a Clause11 because your name tag is a centimetre off centre.Doesnt matter that you have three excel awards.
You cant provide a Mercedes product on a Volkswagen budget.
Qantas will never ever be the best airline on the planet with the current dollar underspend and inept and incompetent management in place.
Tell 'em they're dreamin'

[Pegasus747]

Some of the funniest posts i have ever read have appeared on this thread and another from Domestos

Please keep up the entertainment its cold here in London and we need the laughs for NYE!!

[Little_Red_Hat]

Seems the pruning shears came out again, and it wasn't even getting nasty this time!!

[Little_Red_Hat]

Also, did anyone notice the change on the roster screen under base & line which says:

WorkRule: AUSM

What does that mean? And I wonder if now being able to access standing bids, Pref bidding etc when I couldn't last week means anything either???