Virgin - Crew Discussions II
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If you vote to regret strike action, then throw away your union cards, de recognise Unite and save yourselves £10 a month. As a voice, you will have lost.
The union struggle is a struggle. It is not about who is representing you, it it about the union of workers. If you honestly asked every crew member if they thought their pay was excellent, very good, good, average, poor or very poor, where do you think they would put it on the scale?
With a £2 billion turnover, Virgin must be doing something right. Do the maths on that figure. How many people do Virgin ship round the world each year? Don't pull crew off flights to finance the pay deal. Make the customers pay for it. Put £5 on the cost of each ticket. Pay deal financed. That amount of money would not stop customers buying the product, because it is a great product and worth £5/head increase in cost, to get the crew back onside.
Then engineering and other ground staff do the same. Thats a whole £15 per pax.
Now I await all you business experts to coach me on how this just would not work!
The union struggle is a struggle. It is not about who is representing you, it it about the union of workers. If you honestly asked every crew member if they thought their pay was excellent, very good, good, average, poor or very poor, where do you think they would put it on the scale?
With a £2 billion turnover, Virgin must be doing something right. Do the maths on that figure. How many people do Virgin ship round the world each year? Don't pull crew off flights to finance the pay deal. Make the customers pay for it. Put £5 on the cost of each ticket. Pay deal financed. That amount of money would not stop customers buying the product, because it is a great product and worth £5/head increase in cost, to get the crew back onside.
Then engineering and other ground staff do the same. Thats a whole £15 per pax.
Now I await all you business experts to coach me on how this just would not work!
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Dear orangelitebulbtech
We do not expect any support from any department and it's very difficult that we all work under one roof.
It's a real shame that this situation has got out of hand and feel it's only the management that have themselves to blame.
Why should I leave the company after all the years I have put in. !Anyway we have got 4.8% and other departments 2% so is that fair...? Also why has the company given us so much..? ....is the company agreeing that there is a problem with our wages by giving us 4.8%.
I'm sure there is a light at the end of the tunnel....it may not be orange but it may be bright.
I'm sure everything will be ok in the end anyway pay talks start with the pilots soon, so may be you to should join a union.
Dolly
It's a real shame that this situation has got out of hand and feel it's only the management that have themselves to blame.
Why should I leave the company after all the years I have put in. !Anyway we have got 4.8% and other departments 2% so is that fair...? Also why has the company given us so much..? ....is the company agreeing that there is a problem with our wages by giving us 4.8%.
I'm sure there is a light at the end of the tunnel....it may not be orange but it may be bright.
I'm sure everything will be ok in the end anyway pay talks start with the pilots soon, so may be you to should join a union.
Dolly
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Dolly,
I left after nearly ten years and it was hard, but unfortunatly unless people leave the company will never get the message.
Anyway, its good to see you youve had a minor victory, lets hope they are as 'generous' with the other departments.
I left after nearly ten years and it was hard, but unfortunatly unless people leave the company will never get the message.
Anyway, its good to see you youve had a minor victory, lets hope they are as 'generous' with the other departments.
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Virgin Dolly,
I don't think you have got 4.8% as you haven't accepted it. If you do strike, I'm pretty sure that figure will change as the company surely won't be able to afford it anymore
What %age would make you say yes?
I don't think you have got 4.8% as you haven't accepted it. If you do strike, I'm pretty sure that figure will change as the company surely won't be able to afford it anymore
What %age would make you say yes?
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Dear orangelitebulbtech
Your last few words were "cabin crew on 50% less pay than their competitors"...Well you have shot yourself in the foot....
Yes, the company have succeeded in recruiting all these new crew but look what they have created now....possible strike...! all to save a few bucks $$$.
A big shake up in management is needed and a few heads are on the block, lets see what happens in the next few weeks.
Dolly
Yes, the company have succeeded in recruiting all these new crew but look what they have created now....possible strike...! all to save a few bucks $$$.
A big shake up in management is needed and a few heads are on the block, lets see what happens in the next few weeks.
Dolly
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penguinpoo (do I have to cal you that?lol)
I'm a yes voter. But to answer your question, it seems that crew would accept the 4.8% if other areas were addressed such as delay pay, crew down, trip pay etc. Our basic isnt much different any other airline (except managers), but the other airlines beat us to the bank because of how their salary is made up.
I'm certain that sickness would not be as high either, which is pretty bad on CCs part really, but money does talk.
I'm a yes voter. But to answer your question, it seems that crew would accept the 4.8% if other areas were addressed such as delay pay, crew down, trip pay etc. Our basic isnt much different any other airline (except managers), but the other airlines beat us to the bank because of how their salary is made up.
I'm certain that sickness would not be as high either, which is pretty bad on CCs part really, but money does talk.
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I would definately give up staff travel perks in order to get paid similiar to BA.
BA crew are paid approx £10k more than Virgin crew. The basic pay is about the same but BA crew also get paid for long range flights, overtime etc. Virgin get paid either nothing or a very small amount £10 for example if a flight is delayed over a certain amount of time. Meal allowances are also much better than at Virgin. All these add up to the £10k extra I mentioned.
Staff travel at VS is good. We get 7 free flights a year + tax. After 3 years these are upgradeable. A very nice perk but don't forget they are on a standby basis so you can't often get on flights. Because our pay is so poor its also difficult to pay for hotels etc when you are away on holidays.
BA (and most airlines) get 90% discount on flights + tax, again on standby. So for example a flight LHR-JFK with VS would cost crew about £80 in tax. BA crew would pay about £150 including tax.
So yes I would be more than happy to give up my staff travel benefits in order to get paid £10k more.
Don't forget that staff travel doesn't cost airlines that much anyway because as staff you only get on if the seat hasn't been sold.
BA crew are paid approx £10k more than Virgin crew. The basic pay is about the same but BA crew also get paid for long range flights, overtime etc. Virgin get paid either nothing or a very small amount £10 for example if a flight is delayed over a certain amount of time. Meal allowances are also much better than at Virgin. All these add up to the £10k extra I mentioned.
Staff travel at VS is good. We get 7 free flights a year + tax. After 3 years these are upgradeable. A very nice perk but don't forget they are on a standby basis so you can't often get on flights. Because our pay is so poor its also difficult to pay for hotels etc when you are away on holidays.
BA (and most airlines) get 90% discount on flights + tax, again on standby. So for example a flight LHR-JFK with VS would cost crew about £80 in tax. BA crew would pay about £150 including tax.
So yes I would be more than happy to give up my staff travel benefits in order to get paid £10k more.
Don't forget that staff travel doesn't cost airlines that much anyway because as staff you only get on if the seat hasn't been sold.
The 50 % comes from a previous post by someone else on this thread who i assume is virgin cabin crew and probably a colleague of yours...... shown above.
Assuming a virgin new starter is on 10k a year and the person talks about BA earning 10k a year more then using primitive maths i came up with the 50% figure...... and the whole basis of my argument......... and shows that i havent 'shot myself in the foot' as you say?
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i have an idea lets tie all cabin crew into a 5 year deal, pay them 5% and if they leave before that date they pay it all back.. that way they commit to the company...
or give the 'waste of space/base' back, sell what we dont lease and give that to the crew as a payrise.
im only joking !!! but the crew HAVE changed in past 10 years i have been here, there was a time when we all worked for the same company, making 'virgin' the best airline to fly... but that has all gone !!!
BUT what do the crews have to work with, aircraft with old fashion ife, the upper class brand has been stripped right back to a few packs of polo's and a silver pen. with cabins that look old and tired. crew down on every flight. the list goes on and on BUT !!!!!!
i do feel for you all, and i belive if you all stick together you will get something back, but as past posts have said a union is a union and you do not have that, only 50% and that is not enough
but remember, if you want other depts to surport you, don't bring in pay from other depts like cabin tech's
some of us are in this company for life!!!! and what you do will hurt our families too!!!#
good luck
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Dear penguinpoo
Kids now in bed so I'm on a roll.....
Something to think about for the future or is it not so far off..?
I'm in this forum to talk about our pay and how we can try and sort out this mess so here goes,
I think trip pay should go up big time and worked out on how long your trip is.
Seven hour flight £50, New York ( for CC member)
Eight hour £70
Nine hour £80 Miami
Who likes doing a Miami or a Orlando so give the crew incentives.
Make crew work for their money by giving incentives by working these longer flights.
Big Issue. crew down payments up to £50 for one crew member, £100 for two and £150 for three, then the company would have to get the figures right. It's a insult to pay £5 per crew member down.
But keep the basic pay the same......Yes I may get a few posts for saying that. But in my last posts I talked about basic and flight pay being put together as one whole wage.
Also introduce back to backs where you do two New Yorks or a New York/Washington crew would earn £100 + £70 for UK hotel for allowances and given four days off after trip. It would be a six day trip but one less journey to work.
Crew travel a long way these days so again give them a incentive. These back to backs are quick but financially rewarding to the company and the crew. You would see Crew sickness go down to the minimum.
Being paid £10 for a almost 5 hour delay is a insult and should be increased to £50 at least anyway how often does this happen. So a increase wouldn't be that bad but it would be saying thank you for working these extra hours.
I'm I asking for to much or I might be barking mad....think about it..!
This increase would see your basic with your flight pay together increase and crew be given an incentive to come to work and earn a decent wage.
It's a better deal and I think crew might like it..! Better flight pay, an incentive to come to work and together with your basic makes a good wage.
By giving crew 4.8 % on their low basic was a bad move for the company and other departments who only get 2%.,this has already divided the company as a whole.
I think a big change is needed to the whole structure of crews pay and should be look at soon.
Am I dreaming or is this a possible solution.?
Ta, Ta, Dolly
Something to think about for the future or is it not so far off..?
I'm in this forum to talk about our pay and how we can try and sort out this mess so here goes,
I think trip pay should go up big time and worked out on how long your trip is.
Seven hour flight £50, New York ( for CC member)
Eight hour £70
Nine hour £80 Miami
Who likes doing a Miami or a Orlando so give the crew incentives.
Make crew work for their money by giving incentives by working these longer flights.
Big Issue. crew down payments up to £50 for one crew member, £100 for two and £150 for three, then the company would have to get the figures right. It's a insult to pay £5 per crew member down.
But keep the basic pay the same......Yes I may get a few posts for saying that. But in my last posts I talked about basic and flight pay being put together as one whole wage.
Also introduce back to backs where you do two New Yorks or a New York/Washington crew would earn £100 + £70 for UK hotel for allowances and given four days off after trip. It would be a six day trip but one less journey to work.
Crew travel a long way these days so again give them a incentive. These back to backs are quick but financially rewarding to the company and the crew. You would see Crew sickness go down to the minimum.
Being paid £10 for a almost 5 hour delay is a insult and should be increased to £50 at least anyway how often does this happen. So a increase wouldn't be that bad but it would be saying thank you for working these extra hours.
I'm I asking for to much or I might be barking mad....think about it..!
This increase would see your basic with your flight pay together increase and crew be given an incentive to come to work and earn a decent wage.
It's a better deal and I think crew might like it..! Better flight pay, an incentive to come to work and together with your basic makes a good wage.
By giving crew 4.8 % on their low basic was a bad move for the company and other departments who only get 2%.,this has already divided the company as a whole.
I think a big change is needed to the whole structure of crews pay and should be look at soon.
Am I dreaming or is this a possible solution.?
Ta, Ta, Dolly
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Jnr light bulb tech:
Now that was lovely posting
You're right, crew have changed.
I'm not about to bleat on about the good old days, but its clearly a generation thing. I'm sure other companies are experiencing the same thing too. Some just dont understand how bloody good they have it...in my day.............no I wont!
Now that was lovely posting
You're right, crew have changed.
I'm not about to bleat on about the good old days, but its clearly a generation thing. I'm sure other companies are experiencing the same thing too. Some just dont understand how bloody good they have it...in my day.............no I wont!
Last edited by sign-it-to-your-room; 6th Nov 2007 at 21:08. Reason: spilling, I mean spelling!
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Virgin C/CStrike action
You know what im really fed up to the back teeth of all this strike action rubbish and ill tell you why.
Today I over heard conversations from your new crew who themselves have only been with the company a few weeks discussing the poss strike action and how they feel they should be given a higher salary.
You can imagine how sadend I was to hear this from new people within our company jumping on the band wagon of a very silly campaign run by some what mis guided people.
I dont mean to sound harsh but come on ladies and gents you knew the salary at the start , you knew the perks and you had the choice of whom to go work for your the role models for the new guys and look what you have turned them into!!
Take the resposibility for your actions and do not make our airline into a BA mark 2 (where staff run the airline by millitant action).
Your risking so much as you know the airline will not survive 7 days of strike action, and your actions will have a direct result on both staff in the air and on the ground by creating possible job cuts.
So while your sipping on your G and T's down route think of the other poor Ba**ards who work within this airline , who are panicing because we do not know if we will have a job in the run up to xmas.
Lets face it if you dont like the job or the comapany or the money isnt enough then GO SOME WHERE ELSE!!!
Our business isnt the best paid but hey we all knew that and I make my money up by using the benefits etc.
Virgin doesnt need silly people just fighting on for fighting's sake listern to your union reps etc belive me they know best.
Leave the negotiating to them and stick to your chicken or beef and let the rest of us sleep well in knowing our jobs will be there in the morning.
A VERY PROUD VAA EMPLOYEE
Today I over heard conversations from your new crew who themselves have only been with the company a few weeks discussing the poss strike action and how they feel they should be given a higher salary.
You can imagine how sadend I was to hear this from new people within our company jumping on the band wagon of a very silly campaign run by some what mis guided people.
I dont mean to sound harsh but come on ladies and gents you knew the salary at the start , you knew the perks and you had the choice of whom to go work for your the role models for the new guys and look what you have turned them into!!
Take the resposibility for your actions and do not make our airline into a BA mark 2 (where staff run the airline by millitant action).
Your risking so much as you know the airline will not survive 7 days of strike action, and your actions will have a direct result on both staff in the air and on the ground by creating possible job cuts.
So while your sipping on your G and T's down route think of the other poor Ba**ards who work within this airline , who are panicing because we do not know if we will have a job in the run up to xmas.
Lets face it if you dont like the job or the comapany or the money isnt enough then GO SOME WHERE ELSE!!!
Our business isnt the best paid but hey we all knew that and I make my money up by using the benefits etc.
Virgin doesnt need silly people just fighting on for fighting's sake listern to your union reps etc belive me they know best.
Leave the negotiating to them and stick to your chicken or beef and let the rest of us sleep well in knowing our jobs will be there in the morning.
A VERY PROUD VAA EMPLOYEE
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Virgin Dolly
Have read a few of your posts and they really are beginning to annoy me!!
The real issue here is that we need to look at the bigger picture - the company, regardless of what you believe, will NOT offer another deal. It is not going to happen.
Accept 4.8% or strike and get whatever the want to offer us. Your suggestions are irrelevant at this stage. And they are flawed. Increased trip pay to encourage people to do trips they don't like?? Firstly, it your job to do those trips. Secondly, following your train of thought, then surely those short trips would be poorly crewed due to sickness as you don't earn as much as the longer ones - why do a NYC for £50, when you can do a MIA for £80??
As crew I am really disturbed by how insular we have become - not everything revolves around us. I am also upset at the bickering between depts - what does that achieve?
These post can continue indefinitely - however there really is only one issue to discuss as the Terms of the pay deal will not change - that is, they will not increase.
I think its about time we all started to look at what is on the table and make a decision on that basis. The time for speculative comments about what we want is over, and if you believe that your needs have not been met, then that is an issue to be brought up with the Union, who backed the last offer.
I for the record, am very happy with my current package, and my current T & C's of employment. I am aware that I am in the minority. I would however hope that those who are not, use their voices accordingly. The time to make stances without SERIOUS repercussions for all VAA depts is over. Its too late to say "I want, I want".
The only statement now should be "Yes" or "No" - and that needs to be thought about very carefully.
Have read a few of your posts and they really are beginning to annoy me!!
The real issue here is that we need to look at the bigger picture - the company, regardless of what you believe, will NOT offer another deal. It is not going to happen.
Accept 4.8% or strike and get whatever the want to offer us. Your suggestions are irrelevant at this stage. And they are flawed. Increased trip pay to encourage people to do trips they don't like?? Firstly, it your job to do those trips. Secondly, following your train of thought, then surely those short trips would be poorly crewed due to sickness as you don't earn as much as the longer ones - why do a NYC for £50, when you can do a MIA for £80??
As crew I am really disturbed by how insular we have become - not everything revolves around us. I am also upset at the bickering between depts - what does that achieve?
These post can continue indefinitely - however there really is only one issue to discuss as the Terms of the pay deal will not change - that is, they will not increase.
I think its about time we all started to look at what is on the table and make a decision on that basis. The time for speculative comments about what we want is over, and if you believe that your needs have not been met, then that is an issue to be brought up with the Union, who backed the last offer.
I for the record, am very happy with my current package, and my current T & C's of employment. I am aware that I am in the minority. I would however hope that those who are not, use their voices accordingly. The time to make stances without SERIOUS repercussions for all VAA depts is over. Its too late to say "I want, I want".
The only statement now should be "Yes" or "No" - and that needs to be thought about very carefully.
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jcdcon - 'I think its about time we all started to look at what is on the table and make a decision on that basis.'
We have looked at the offer on the table and 60% voted no to the deal. Do you really think the union reps will come back and say 'guys we are going to ask you to vote again on the same deal' they would be laughed at by the majority of crew (60% who have said no)
The only thing left now is:
a - the company come back with a better offer that brings us in line with other airlines
b - we vote to go on strike and wait and see if the company comes back with a better offer.
Was talking to some f/d crew last night and they said 'you guys have to hold out for a better deal. We got 49% by voting to strike'
We need to stand up to the company too. If one group of employees can do it (pilots) then so can other employees.
We have looked at the offer on the table and 60% voted no to the deal. Do you really think the union reps will come back and say 'guys we are going to ask you to vote again on the same deal' they would be laughed at by the majority of crew (60% who have said no)
The only thing left now is:
a - the company come back with a better offer that brings us in line with other airlines
b - we vote to go on strike and wait and see if the company comes back with a better offer.
Was talking to some f/d crew last night and they said 'you guys have to hold out for a better deal. We got 49% by voting to strike'
We need to stand up to the company too. If one group of employees can do it (pilots) then so can other employees.
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The percentage that voted no was not the majority of the crew, it was the majority of the union members who bothered to vote. It was actually closer to 30% of the crew. There's a big difference between those two numbers.
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Just to get a better picture can any of you gals and boys who are CC tell me what amount of expensess you recive on an avarage month?
VS LHR you hit the nail on the head.. 30% of the crew in voted no deal
How about a %(how much would it take?) payrise on basic pay and scrap expensess??
Performance and loyalty bonus for all?? could improve crew down numbers
VS LHR you hit the nail on the head.. 30% of the crew in voted no deal
How about a %(how much would it take?) payrise on basic pay and scrap expensess??
Performance and loyalty bonus for all?? could improve crew down numbers
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Virgin Dolly,
At this stage I am not going to go thru the why,s and whats of going on strike or not going on strike.....BUT, you said....
Who likes doing a Miami or a Orlando so give the crew incentives.
CC might not like doing MCO,s and MIA,s just like there are aspects of my job I dont like doing but I have to do them with no incentive. I certainly dont think CC should get an incentive to fly to a destination because they dont like it. Its part of the route structure VS have had for a long time so asking for an incentive for a particular route is barking up the wrong tree I feel.....
At this stage I am not going to go thru the why,s and whats of going on strike or not going on strike.....BUT, you said....
Who likes doing a Miami or a Orlando so give the crew incentives.
CC might not like doing MCO,s and MIA,s just like there are aspects of my job I dont like doing but I have to do them with no incentive. I certainly dont think CC should get an incentive to fly to a destination because they dont like it. Its part of the route structure VS have had for a long time so asking for an incentive for a particular route is barking up the wrong tree I feel.....