BA - Common Issues

[disappointed]

So, the 'most crew in airlines other than BA' who 'aspire to be like that one day' and think BA is better------- Actually aspire to come to an airline that will ( if walsh gets his way) have no better terms and conditions than they already have at whatever airline their currently working at? So THATS why they wont supprt us!!

Strange how we already have crew from other airlines who are offering - OFFERING NOT BEING ASKED- to turn up on the picket line with our food and drinks - if it comes to that.

[traveller5]

Carnage Matey - Yes, I agree that my £199 ticket won't go far to pay towards your pension (or not, in view of the dire deficit), but for a family of 5 it's a question of sense ; BA can get us there at a very cheap price, meaning we spend extra cash on a 4* hotel in Manhattan. Your point of 70 J and 14 F passengers being the real money earners is totally true, but only when the respective cabins are full of real wealth and not upgrades or BA staff! Let us not forget that your job also goes beyond (rich) passengers and includes transporting valuable cargo.

BA obviously would like to invest more in their products, but a lot of the premium revenue would appear to go towards subsidising the flight and cabin crews dated work conditions.

In essence, it appears that BA want to change the balance of power and get employee costs and productivity to a sensible level.

[Strimmerdriver]

Carnage Matey! I only disagree with one part of your posts...£1800pm net is over £30k pa gross by my calcs if one was taxed as a "normal" uk tax payer.
Fresh from the rumour machine: BA are convinced of poor support for the ballot but expect a large sick out. Consequently if they are going to deal with a "strike" they are coming to the party with their whole shopping list;
Hourly rate, no box payments, scheme duty limits, basic hotels, no CAT payments, fixed links etc.
When a certain Copilot pointed out that SH were not exactly flying much yet BA were recruiting he was vilified. Why would BA want to be overstaffed?
This is showing all the signs of a very ugly fight with career changing consequences.

[flybywire]

Originally Posted by Strimmerdriver

When a certain Copilot pointed out that SH were not exactly flying much yet BA were recruiting he was vilified. Why would BA want to be overstaffed

Well that Copilot was talking out of somewhere else other than his mouth. Over 90% of the recruitment into BA in the last 12 months was fed into LGW for the new single fleet. We had to more than double our numbers to make that possible. Easy to prove as I'm working in training these days.
As for the SH one out-nightstop-one back trips, I do not know exactly how that works at LHR but at LGW we probably have 4 trips in a whole month like that (out of 1600+). We have a lot of two day-six sector trips and fixed links. I would be in favour of this kind of arrangement (yes, fixed links DO work people, although sometimes it means longer sectors linked together, but when it's a NCL-NCL fixed-link it means you get home some 90mins early!) as we have had for over 18months now and it is somehow working well. I think this is an area you should reconsider guys.

As for the new contracts being brought in line with old ones.....who are we kidding? Why didn't anybody do anything before? When I started at LGW I was (and many other people) on £9,000 exactly per year (gross) when LHR new contracts were some £600 more than us already, and nobody did anything to change that, despite our requests!!! Mr Karl BASSA at LGW even had an argument with me during the initial training presentation of BASSA and refused to address the issue as he kept saying that "it is not true it's all in your head"!!!!! How can I - and many others - feel close to BASSA's positions now, just tell me?

The only one thing I agree with you "oldies" in BA is the NAPS issue, the fact that BA took huge risks by their own initiative, stopped paying into it because " things were going well" is entirely their own responsibility and fault and you and your families shouldn't have to pay for their mistakes. Those management ppl who thought they could go away with it should be fleeced right here right now.

As for some crew working for charter airlines thinking that BA is better is true. I used to work for a major UK charter carrier and couldn't wait to jump ship (for other reasons than money). We knew little about BA rosters, t&c's however we used to see that they were well looked after by their unions while our company even refused to accept we might have a union (CC89 at that time) who, by the way, couldn't care less about us. So the fact that the unions somehow are being proactive towards BA issues, whatever they might be, makes BA even more appetible for many of those crew Dogs_ears_up talked about.

[Carnage Matey!]

Originally Posted by flybywire

Well that Copilot was talking out of somewhere else other than his mouth. Over 90% of the recruitment into BA in the last 12 months was fed into LGW for the new single fleet.

Careful now! That still leaves 10% of recruitment going into EFLHR, plus there had been plenty of new faces prior to that. The LHR crew threw their toys out of the pram when that letter was printed yet when a response from a CSD was printed in BA News he revealed that a third of all EF tours contained one or more single sector days! Doh! Bearing in mind there are no four sector days for LHR crew in the middle of a tour that doesn't get a lot of sectors covered.

[tuismile]

to be honest the grass is not that much greener on the other side. I used to work for charter and came to BA for better T & C, apparently better pay and cos i thought the company looked after their crew. I was seriously mistaken!

I honestly think that working at charter was better in many ways. Firstly the company certainly looked after us better than how BA is at the moment. Did we ever have all these changes? NO. Did we ever have ballots? I've only known of one. Did I get paid more? OH YES! Was crew morale ten times better? Most definately. Was there this community division between bases? Never.

To me it seems like BA have got it worked out. Bully the crew as much as possible and we will give in. I never joined BA to join unions and disagree with management all the time. I joined because I love my job.

It's now getting to the point where I am considering joining my old airline again.

But one thing I will say is you must fight for what is rightly yours. And if that means going on strike guys then I'm well for it.

[flybywire]

Tuismile I am sorry you feel disappointed by BA (SFLGW that is, for clarification, otherwise you'll be eaten alive here!) and I am sorry you're thinking of going back to your previous airline.
We definitely didn't work for the same outfit then as for me, despite I used to clear 1500-1600 with them once I was doing mixed flying, the kind of work, kind of passengers, the way the company treated me and the stress they caused (and more specifically: my duty cabin crew coordinator) wasn't worth the money. So I changed and despite on an average month as a SFLGW purser I'd earn 1300-1400 per month considering my bidding preferences, it's sooooooo much better than my previous charter job.
True conditions have deteriorated before my eyes since I joined 3 years ago, and our unions, too busy looking after the golden runway's issues, let them deteriorate.
Am I any sadder now? Not really, the environment at work is great regardless, morale isn't any lower, believe me.

Having said that, Carnage, I'd rather do 4-sector-days in the middle of a 3 day trip than do single 4-sector days.....it's the driving back and forth on minimum rest that really kills me and I'd much rather be driven to a hotel and picked up the following day. So I am with you on this one too.
EFLGW used to have very efficient rosters - I used to constantly be on the 900hrs limit - however tiring, it does make sense for it to happen everywhere else too.

[miche2]

Oh dear! What a mess. Infighting and divided staff, shareholders cashing in millions,stories of management "bullying", a pension shambles, poor punctuality, baggage handlers on a go-slow, unions already printing ballot papers........I was glad I stopped working "on the buses" when I resigned, but am even more content now seeing this total mess. It will end with the weaker side losing........The selling of millions of share options spells out what WW has in mind. What's that smell of coffee?

[SuperBoy]

Yet another informative and constructive post from miche2.

Thanks

[flybywire]

Originally Posted by SuperBoy

Yet another informative and constructive post from miche2.

Thanks

(why isn't there a hugging smily little face...?)

[miche2]

thanks........

[SuperBoy]

Originally Posted by miche2

I was glad I stopped working "on the buses" when I resigned, but am even more content now seeing this total mess.

It is a sad, sad person that begrudges another. I begrudge no one and I know I am a better person for it.

Your words show a great deal of your character. Unlike your wishes for me and thousands others I wish you well.

[jerrystinger]

Come on, everywhere I look it's the "woe is me attitude" and "us poor BA crew", "we don't want to inconvenience you, our dear, dear passenger, but.."

[traveller5]

I have to agree that there's a lot of woe floating around. Unfortunately for BA crews I think the publicity around the issues causing a strike will not ensure a sympathetic public. We are seeing that other UK airlines work well to different terms and from reading this forum it is clear that BA staff are slightly unfounded in their claims. While I'd like to see them not go on strike, I can't help but feel that they should be on the same terms and conditions as other UK carriers. Unfair?

[Hotel Mode]

I can't help but feel that they should be on the same terms and conditions as other UK carriers. Unfair?

Amazing how many people believe in communism with regards to other peoples terms and conditions isnt it. whilst presumably accepting higher rewards for better jobs themselves.

Or look at it another way, if you want all airlines to go to the lowest common denominator of comfort/safety and service then yes of course all airlines should have the same T+C's our F + J pax will really love it.

[airbus777]

I am proud to work for BA on EFLHR,i work hard and have a family to support.Taking home between 1600 AND 2000 a month only just about makes this possible,but i love the job and Mrs A loves the id90s!!

VOTE YES!

[banewboi]

Stick Together!

lgw have always been kept at arms length and been unsupported, on conditions, on pay, on nsp entry. this is now coming to bite lhr when they would LIKE our support, but the reality of the situation is lhr don't NEED it, just want it.

unfortunately lhr are overpaid for what they do and it's hard for anyone to give up money but in this next round between us and ba (because regardless of the divide we must MUST MUST MUST STAND UNITED) lhr is likely to feel the edge of the axe. lgw is a fantastic place to work, we aren't on great money but if t*ts and teeth count for anything you don't see wider smiles in the aisles than lgw right now.

this is how i feel:
WE have a common love and a common enemy right now, WE love our jobs, WE love our company and WE love the lives we are priveledged enough to lead around the globe, our common enemy however is our senior management. as long as he saves money he'll stay, no matter how much WE hate him. WE can't not serve pax because WE haven't the crew or the resources as it isn't the way WE do things, WE can't make him bring the old days back and WE can't make him give us more money. WE are valued above all other cabin crew in the industry and WE are lucky enough to have a superb safety record thanks to OUR flight crew AND OUR engineers, this is OUR weapon.

we can't strike until a failure to agree has been announced but colleagues from everywhere within ba, when this comes it is a call to arms. the business as a whole must defend the jewel in it's crown to stop British Airways becoming a white elephant. lhr, lgw, flight crew, cabin crew and engineers if willie walsh wants to test our strength and flex his muscles then let him, but lets make sure we flex right back.

some us might be young and pretty, some of us might be old and grey, some of us with degree's, some with gces. it is our diversity in skill and experience that makes us strong in our cabin's, deck's or hangers and it is our diversity that makes this airline what we have made it. everything needs to change and grow with market forces, modern culture and the business environment but we have changed and given enough and it is time to ask for something in return.

IF our unions ask it of us WE must stand united as one front to protect everything WE have now and to protect British Airways. if our management continue with this freight train of simply forcing policy we wil be a less motivated, less rested, over worked work force and could easily end up as the latest national carrier to fall to the low cost model. British Airways is not and never will be a low cost operator so we should not have low cost salaries and low cost policies. WE are a full service, 4 class, flag carrier. WE are the faces, the hardware and the driving force behind OUR airline. British Airways is not the brain child of our management, nor is it the garage sale of wille walsh for him to sell us down the river.

WE are Cabin Crew, WE are Flight Crew WE are British Airways AND WE MUST STAND TOGETHER.

[banewboi]

is that a bit much?

[twisted-diamonddolly]

I liked it.

[tofster]

I did too, well done matey! Maybe you should be a union rep if you aren't already