BA - Common Issues
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Hi there folks. In danger of causing upset, can I just say that all the LHR crew who are talking about striking about new conditions, what happened to you guys supporting us little 'uns at LGW? We've had worse pay conditions, work conditions etc than you for years, we now work 3 crew on most 737's, we're doing mixed flying (looking like we'll lose our breakfast allowance) etc etc (I won't go on as you probably know most of it anyway). We just get on with it though... I'm not saying change is necessarily good, but how about finding out more details before talking about strike action? If another strike happens, we might all be out of a job, and that's what I and lots of others worry about. I'm not saying that all the new conditions rumoured are right or just, but please make sure the unions talk it through properly first. We're all colleagues at the end of the day and I hope we can all support each other on issues within the company.
Hope I haven't offended anyone, that wasn't my intentions (I'm just worried about job stability etc). Sending happy thoughts and happy vibes.
Hope I haven't offended anyone, that wasn't my intentions (I'm just worried about job stability etc). Sending happy thoughts and happy vibes.
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Hey Glamgirl.
I'm no expert on the LGW situation, but one thing I know for sure is that we had no union ballot at LHR about it. I know there was one for both Eurofleet LGW and LGW Worldwide though, the result of which came back supporting the proposal for the formation of Single Fleet LGW.
What I don't understand, is why the overwhelming majority of LGW crew voted for the new proposal without the fine print being written.
Don't get me wrong, I think it is outrageous how you guys are being treated down there. But surely there should have been a campaign to 'Vote No' in the ballot on LGW SF, or at least to ensure the fine print had been written before that 'Yes' box was ticked.
I'm no expert on the LGW situation, but one thing I know for sure is that we had no union ballot at LHR about it. I know there was one for both Eurofleet LGW and LGW Worldwide though, the result of which came back supporting the proposal for the formation of Single Fleet LGW.
What I don't understand, is why the overwhelming majority of LGW crew voted for the new proposal without the fine print being written.
Don't get me wrong, I think it is outrageous how you guys are being treated down there. But surely there should have been a campaign to 'Vote No' in the ballot on LGW SF, or at least to ensure the fine print had been written before that 'Yes' box was ticked.
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Single fleet LHR? I do not think so! This question was asked at the latest forum a couple of weeks ago and the answer was a clear no. So do not worry!
5 sector days? 5 manchester sectors maybe. Some airlines do 6 sector days.
Not that I would like that to happen or that I would agree to it. In fact I would tell the
useless unions what I think about them once for all if that were the case.
5 sector days? 5 manchester sectors maybe. Some airlines do 6 sector days.
Not that I would like that to happen or that I would agree to it. In fact I would tell the
useless unions what I think about them once for all if that were the case.
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1. LGW WW wanted an easy way into LHR WW
2. LGW EF have been gagging for long haul and jumped at the first chance, signed the first piece of paper that came along, even though the conditions are ABSOLUTELY appalling compare to that of LHR.
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Thats not quite right superboy.
LGW WW and LGW EOG voted in DIFFERENT ballots.
LGW EOG to accept Single Fleet LGW.
And LGW WW to accept the transfer options offered.
LGW WW had no 'yes' or 'no' vote in accepting single fleet.
LGW WW and LGW EOG voted in DIFFERENT ballots.
LGW EOG to accept Single Fleet LGW.
And LGW WW to accept the transfer options offered.
LGW WW had no 'yes' or 'no' vote in accepting single fleet.
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LGW WW wanted an easy route to LHR WW, did they?? I think that most of those WW that are still based at LGW are there because they want to be. I had the opportunity to transfer to 'big school' in Aug 2005, but I was and am happy at LGW. I will be based at LHR in Feb, only because there will be no more routes at LGW for us WW crew to operate.
Keeperboy's last post is completely correct in that who was balloted about what.
Keeperboy's last post is completely correct in that who was balloted about what.
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I think that most of those WW that are still based at LGW are there because they want to be. I had the opportunity to transfer to 'big school' in Aug 2005, but I was and am happy at LGW. I will be based at LHR in Feb, only because there will be no more routes at LGW for us WW crew to operate.
I stand to be corrected but last I heard only 3 out of the entire lgw ww base opted to transfer to sf gatwick. You yourself is happy at lgw but have also opted to go to lhr.
Don't even get me started on the money side of things, one of the dom's tried to tell me that I'm earning the same as someone at LHR.
Please don't turn this into a mud slinging match. Everybody is fully aware of what they signed up for and where they stand with the company. I'm pinning my hopes on the fact that we'll apparently start earning more as of FEB. Here's hoping.
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I think I've been a bit misunderstood... I think single fleet in theory is a good thing for us at LGW, it's the breakfast situation that bugs me about that one.
The point I was trying to make, is that no matter what the company hits us with at LGW, we don't get the back-up we need from the union (you'd have thought bassa/cc89 at either base is the same, but no...), nor have we had any support from our colleagues at LHR. Basically what I'm saying, is that if LHR crew are looking for strike support from "little brother" about your recent issues (rumours or otherwise), then a lot of us are thinking why should we? We've been trying to join NSP for years now (as after all we all work for same company doing the same job), but the union reps at LHR have been putting spanners in the works constantly. Also, we've had no support for all the changes we've gone through in the last few years (3 crew, fewer nightstops, etc etc). I'm not saying that all crew at LHR are like this though, I have plenty of friends up there, most crew at LHR are absolutely lovely and I could've gone up there 5 years ago, but turned it down as I like LGW (believe it or not). It's just the different conditions and pay that irks me, really. Sorry if I've upset anyone.
The point I was trying to make, is that no matter what the company hits us with at LGW, we don't get the back-up we need from the union (you'd have thought bassa/cc89 at either base is the same, but no...), nor have we had any support from our colleagues at LHR. Basically what I'm saying, is that if LHR crew are looking for strike support from "little brother" about your recent issues (rumours or otherwise), then a lot of us are thinking why should we? We've been trying to join NSP for years now (as after all we all work for same company doing the same job), but the union reps at LHR have been putting spanners in the works constantly. Also, we've had no support for all the changes we've gone through in the last few years (3 crew, fewer nightstops, etc etc). I'm not saying that all crew at LHR are like this though, I have plenty of friends up there, most crew at LHR are absolutely lovely and I could've gone up there 5 years ago, but turned it down as I like LGW (believe it or not). It's just the different conditions and pay that irks me, really. Sorry if I've upset anyone.
Last edited by Glamgirl; 4th Dec 2006 at 16:48. Reason: Adding text
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I opted for LHR eventually as a) I live in Birmingham, not exactly handy for short haul and b) I am happy with the agreements I have with my contract. If the single fleet hadn't have happened, a lot of us going to LHR would happily stay where we are.
Don't get me wrong, I know you guys are getting a raw deal at the moment and I totally support you in any fight to get your agreements improved.
Don't get me wrong, I know you guys are getting a raw deal at the moment and I totally support you in any fight to get your agreements improved.
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[quote=SuperBoy;3001662]Fare enough.
Don't get me wrong I'm not anti LGW I'm actually pro LGW. However the t's & c's are horendous. Ie. LGW is profitable, LGW saved money etc. etc. but Hotels are being changed to airport hotels. GVA Hotel is at the end of the runway and you might as well be lying on the tarmac trying to get some sleep. However LGW Flight crew, LHR CC and LHR Flight crew get coached into town to a nice little hotel. Why am I and all at lgw not good enough to be in the same hotel as everyone else?
quote]
i spoke to cc89 rep today and asked about us changing to airport hotels he said this was rubbish. they are looking at a new hotel in tampa as there have been a lot of complaints about it. the gva hotel is temp move while the hilton is being done up the move was so quick they could not get us all rooms in the same hotel so they split us up they are looking for another one somewhere else for a few moths
Don't get me wrong I'm not anti LGW I'm actually pro LGW. However the t's & c's are horendous. Ie. LGW is profitable, LGW saved money etc. etc. but Hotels are being changed to airport hotels. GVA Hotel is at the end of the runway and you might as well be lying on the tarmac trying to get some sleep. However LGW Flight crew, LHR CC and LHR Flight crew get coached into town to a nice little hotel. Why am I and all at lgw not good enough to be in the same hotel as everyone else?
quote]
i spoke to cc89 rep today and asked about us changing to airport hotels he said this was rubbish. they are looking at a new hotel in tampa as there have been a lot of complaints about it. the gva hotel is temp move while the hilton is being done up the move was so quick they could not get us all rooms in the same hotel so they split us up they are looking for another one somewhere else for a few moths
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Well Where Do I Start
Guys
This has all been covered before on the BA LGW thread.
Superboy,
as someone who joined the Company just a little while ago from BMED you must have known all about the t&c's before you started? So why is it such a surprise that we are treated so differently. Would you have held out for other t&c's and risked losing everything. Do you really think the Company were going to offer us the same as WW LHR? They needed to save £13m so that was never going to happen.
I know the unions at LGW do their very best for us all. Yes they appear to give in a bit more easily but trust me they don't. As someone who has seen plenty of discussions from both sides of the coin, the Company have us over a barrel and they know it.
Put yourself in the shoes of a LGWWW crew member what would you have done when faced with this dilemma - do I take a 40/50% pay cut and stay where I really love to be or do I keep my money and work somewhere where I choosen not to in the past? WWLGW didn't want an easy way into WWLHR they already had it. It was just a case of waiting for those who had joined recently, however for most they already had the opportunity to go but choose not to.
Please see my note about the GVA hotel on the other thread. Did you do a report about how noisy the hotel was?
"2. LGW EF have been gagging for long haul and jumped at the first chance, signed the first piece of paper that came along, even though the conditions are ABSOLUTELY appalling compare to that of LHR."
That statement just gets right on my breasts Try having been in the company for 9 years putting up with all the cr@p. Then someone who's been in the Company since May comes along and makes a stupid comment like that. I just hope I don't find I'm flying with you soon.
Rant over!!
Glamgirl,
Unfortunatey it has always been the same with the WW LHR unions. They see us as a base that doesn't really matter. It's only when the changes that we have had to put up with start happening to them that they start getting on the high horses. How dare the Company do this to us! Oh it already happens at LGW, really?
Yes the single fleet at LGW is great for us and I do feel genuinely sorry for the new recruits that have been sat around on loads of days off and STBY's earning no money. All I can say is, it has to change once all the routes come over in February. Don't forget that we only have had until recently four of the nine routes.
Let's wait and see what happens with b&b, after all it is in our MOA.
YD
This has all been covered before on the BA LGW thread.
Superboy,
as someone who joined the Company just a little while ago from BMED you must have known all about the t&c's before you started? So why is it such a surprise that we are treated so differently. Would you have held out for other t&c's and risked losing everything. Do you really think the Company were going to offer us the same as WW LHR? They needed to save £13m so that was never going to happen.
I know the unions at LGW do their very best for us all. Yes they appear to give in a bit more easily but trust me they don't. As someone who has seen plenty of discussions from both sides of the coin, the Company have us over a barrel and they know it.
Put yourself in the shoes of a LGWWW crew member what would you have done when faced with this dilemma - do I take a 40/50% pay cut and stay where I really love to be or do I keep my money and work somewhere where I choosen not to in the past? WWLGW didn't want an easy way into WWLHR they already had it. It was just a case of waiting for those who had joined recently, however for most they already had the opportunity to go but choose not to.
Please see my note about the GVA hotel on the other thread. Did you do a report about how noisy the hotel was?
"2. LGW EF have been gagging for long haul and jumped at the first chance, signed the first piece of paper that came along, even though the conditions are ABSOLUTELY appalling compare to that of LHR."
That statement just gets right on my breasts
Try having been in the company for 9 years putting up with all the cr@p. Then someone who's been in the Company since May comes along and makes a stupid comment like that. I just hope I don't find I'm flying with you soon.Rant over!!
Glamgirl,
Unfortunatey it has always been the same with the WW LHR unions. They see us as a base that doesn't really matter. It's only when the changes that we have had to put up with start happening to them that they start getting on the high horses. How dare the Company do this to us! Oh it already happens at LGW, really?
Yes the single fleet at LGW is great for us and I do feel genuinely sorry for the new recruits that have been sat around on loads of days off and STBY's earning no money. All I can say is, it has to change once all the routes come over in February. Don't forget that we only have had until recently four of the nine routes.
Let's wait and see what happens with b&b, after all it is in our MOA.
YD
Last edited by yellowdog; 4th Dec 2006 at 20:00.
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That statement just gets right on my breasts Try having been in the company for 9 years putting up with all the cr@p. Then someone who's been in the Company since May comes along and makes a stupid comment like that. I just hope I don't find I'm flying with you soon.YD
Try having been in the company for 9 years putting up with all the cr@p. Then someone who's been in the Company since May comes along and makes a stupid comment like that. I just hope I don't find I'm flying with you soon.YDHowever whether you have been with the company for 9 years or 9 months doesn't change the fact that the t & c's aren't even a third of LHRs. I never expected the same t & c's as LHR but I did expect to be able to live. Add to that the fact that I was blatantly lied to by the recruiters up at the rivers with regards to how much money can be expected (no I'm not alone in this as I have asked alot of people who have joined in the past year and the same recurring amounts come up)
I like working for BA, the people are fantastic and I enjoy it tremendously but If you saw my pay slips you would understand why I am not as happy as I and so many others could be. I'm not asking for very much but hey I've only been at BA for a few seconds so I guess I'm not entitled to anything.
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Superboy,
Perhaps I was a bit strong and I apologise. However to say that LHRWW earn three times as much is pushing a bit far.
Before the massive recruitment to cover the new SF maincrew were earning about 1200-1400 on average a month. You have to understand that at the moment the wages are not normal (as I said further down my post).
Don't know who you have been speaking to but maincrew at LHR do not earn 3600 per month.
Speaking to some of the temp WW people on my flight the other day, they came up with the figure of around 1800-2200 on an exceptional month. Working things out in my head I would expect maincrew to earn between 1300-1600 once and I repeat once all the routes come over. You must be able to live on that.
"like working for BA, the people are fantastic and I enjoy it tremendously but If you saw my pay slips you would understand why I am not as happy as I and so many others could be. I'm not asking for very much but hey I've only been at BA for a few seconds so I guess I'm not entitled to anything."
So what are you asking for? If it is continual long haul then you have to understand two things;
1. All the new people have to be kept current on the B777 so trips will be limited.
2. Being a base that has preferential bidding, newer people will never acheive a 100% hit rate on their bids.
I know that is not what you want to hear but it is the unfortunate truth.
BTW, did you report the GVA hotel?
YD
Perhaps I was a bit strong and I apologise. However to say that LHRWW earn three times as much is pushing a bit far.
Before the massive recruitment to cover the new SF maincrew were earning about 1200-1400 on average a month. You have to understand that at the moment the wages are not normal (as I said further down my post).
Don't know who you have been speaking to but maincrew at LHR do not earn 3600 per month.
Speaking to some of the temp WW people on my flight the other day, they came up with the figure of around 1800-2200 on an exceptional month. Working things out in my head I would expect maincrew to earn between 1300-1600 once and I repeat once all the routes come over. You must be able to live on that.
"like working for BA, the people are fantastic and I enjoy it tremendously but If you saw my pay slips you would understand why I am not as happy as I and so many others could be. I'm not asking for very much but hey I've only been at BA for a few seconds so I guess I'm not entitled to anything."
So what are you asking for? If it is continual long haul then you have to understand two things;
1. All the new people have to be kept current on the B777 so trips will be limited.
2. Being a base that has preferential bidding, newer people will never acheive a 100% hit rate on their bids.
I know that is not what you want to hear but it is the unfortunate truth.
BTW, did you report the GVA hotel?
YD
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Fare enough.
Don't get me wrong I'm not anti LGW I'm actually pro LGW. However the t's & c's are horendous. Ie. LGW is profitable, LGW saved money etc. etc. but Hotels are being changed to airport hotels. GVA Hotel is at the end of the runway and you might as well be lying on the tarmac trying to get some sleep. However LGW Flight crew, LHR CC and LHR Flight crew get coached into town to a nice little hotel. Why am I and all at lgw not good enough to be in the same hotel as everyone else?
Don't even get me started on the money side of things, one of the dom's tried to tell me that I'm earning the same as someone at LHR.
Don't get me wrong I'm not anti LGW I'm actually pro LGW. However the t's & c's are horendous. Ie. LGW is profitable, LGW saved money etc. etc. but Hotels are being changed to airport hotels. GVA Hotel is at the end of the runway and you might as well be lying on the tarmac trying to get some sleep. However LGW Flight crew, LHR CC and LHR Flight crew get coached into town to a nice little hotel. Why am I and all at lgw not good enough to be in the same hotel as everyone else?
Don't even get me started on the money side of things, one of the dom's tried to tell me that I'm earning the same as someone at LHR.
I guess the problem with LGW is that it is often seen as an 'entry point' or 'stepping stone' to either quick-ish promotion or LHR. Crew down there don't seem to hang about as long as the BA average (120 years LOL), I know there are some exceptions but most people hang about til they can get transferred out or promoted.
There always seems to be a ready supply of young, enthusiastic crew down there whom don't kick up too much of a fuss and are just happy to be flying for BA.
As nice as the ex-EOG people I fly with are, once they are out of LGW EOG they seem to be quite happy to forget the conditions at LGW and what they have left behind. Whether anyone thinks this is right or wrong I guess is down to personal opinion.
There is also the 'numbers' issue. Now as the old saying goes 'safety in numbers!'. I have no idea what the exact split is of the 14,500 odd BA cabin crew. I know that WW LHR has about 8000 ish, EF LHR 3800 ish and the rest made up of ex WW LGW, LGW SF, EF MAN, EF GLA/EDI and ICC. So, around 12000 of the total are based at LHR. It sort of stands to reason that BA management would have more success chomping away at the benefits/t&c's of the 'easy game' (small bases) before starting on the jewel in their money saving crown, LHR. Whether they will risk pi**ing off the crew at LHR and potentially seeing their cash cow shut down for a few days is yet to be seen.
We DO know that the conditions are crap at LGW super. But, without sounding brutal, the crew at LHR tend to think there are a lot more bigger (on more personal to them) issues at hand than defending the t&c's LGW.
Unfair, YES. But at the end of the day, the general concensus is that those at LGW a) signed up for the deal, and, b) only need to 'serve their time' before transferring out anyway.
It is VITALLY important that you, your colleagues and Pursers stand up and be counted. Most of us in this profession are recruited as we are 'caring' and even with unrealistic crew compliments we still rush like mad to serve that last row.
DON'T DO IT
If 3 crew on a 737 or 10 crew on a LGW 777 aren't enough then don't break your back to serve everyone. If you miss out the last three rows because you are on a full 737 with 3 crew TOUGH. Apologise to all the un-served passengers, explain that there are only 3 of you to serve 140-odd of them, give them a comments card each and encourage them all to send it back in with their thoughts. Likewise with passengers on the 777 that aren't happy. BA will have to do something to stop the tide of complaints. If no-one is complaining and the job is getting done, managers will think it works just fine! Likewise for crap hotels. Get all the crew to fill out a report about the unsatisfactory noise/standard. And if any of your Cabin Managers think they are CSD's and can stroll around a 777 all flight leaving 9 working crew, again, stand up and be counted. Tell them otherwise!
I think the LGW SF situation is really an issue that can be sorted out by you guys down there standing together and having the conviction to stand up and be counted.
Last edited by keeperboy; 4th Dec 2006 at 22:01. Reason: spelling
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If I remember correctly, BA/your union need 7-10 reports in one week in order to look into any problems with hotels. So, the more of you do it, the more chance of something being sorted out.
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It was put on the flight report. I would've liked to email someone wrt to the hotel and get a response but no one I spoke to seem to be very accommodating with a contact person.
The same goes for the new hotel in IAH.
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Well well. What an exciting turn this thread has taken!
I would like to get behind everything YD has said firstly about this issue (not the personal stuff about others).
I would like to add however that superboy is very good at his job and is not the type to voice his discontent and bring others down or let it affect his proffesionalism on board or attitude to customers (well done SB).
My own personal feelings on these issues are this.... (if anyone's interested)
I voted YES for SFLGW because it was indeed a way forward for EFLGW which was in fairness a fleet that could not go down in morale any further. and of course I wanted an opportunity to do something different and the chance to go up the ladder and earn more money.
I put my faith in the unions that they would do their best and then live with the consequences.
Well... I for one was not totally happy with the package put together for SFLGW. Mostly the CM package (which more work than CSD and less money), and of course now we have all the wrangling with breakfast and the tipping etc etc.
I am of course a realist and knew that a crew member would be taken off and we'd lose a PSR maybe. But hey BA would probably get their way or the union would come to a compromise.
I still think we need a extra PSR of the 4 class, and I guess we'll see if that happens.
What really gets me now is this......(deep breath)
While all this SF negotiation was going on I never once saw a message from either union (particularly for LHR) saying how outrageous the SF proposal was and how everyone was going to go on strike then if it was passed and CSD was done away with and we lost a PSR etc etc etc.
Now....I'm no brain of Britain, or fortune teller. BUT ANY IDIOT COULD SEE THAT IF SFLGW WAS ALLOWED TO GO AHEAD AND OPPERATE 777 UNDER THE T&C'S WE DO NOW, THAT IT WOULD ONLY BE A MATTER OF TIME BEFORE THEY TRY TO DO IT AT LHR!
I'm a little supprised they've attempted it this soon, but hey...it shows they mean business.
I'm also very sceptical of the fact that the fact that ONLY WHEN THE CSD RANK IS THREATENED AT LHR IS IT NOW AN ISSUE.
Again...any idiot could see that if you let it get dissolved at LGW then it will eventually happen at LHR. The rot will have already set in!!!
Retreating within fortress LHR is not going to save you as the management and accountants are living in there with you!!!!
SO.. now when the reps at LHR (all CSD's pretty much I think) realise that theri jobs are now up for grabs by the company the toys are out of the pram and STRIKE STRIKE is the call (and we're all supposed to join in).
I realise their are lots of other issues tagged onto this ballot as well, many just and with foundation.
However don't bleat on about losing the CSD rank or making it a working position or "just look at your SCM colleagues at LGW".
THEY LET IT HAPPEN. EFLGW could have been absorbed into the NSP years ago and none of this rubbish would be happening now...but no. The LHR unions didn't want it, so it didn't happen.
Now look what's happened. All that eliteism and xenophobia that was directed at EOG/EFLGW is now coming back to bite them in the arse. And it could have all been prevented.
Do I sound bitter? Good! I am when it comes to this subject. All this talk of we all have to rally to the war cry of STRIKE STRIKE and be one team/unit/community.
WE'RE NOT ONE COMMUNITY! There's LHR/ and what's left of WWLGW, and then there's everyone else.
By selling EOG/EFLGW/SFLGW down the river all these years and not allowing us into your precious NSP and allowing our T&C's to be dilluted down again and again, you've ended up selling your own down the river by giving the company a template (SFLGW) to bash you over the head with now at every negotiation by saying "Well they do it this way at LGW. We want to do it here at LHR. And why not? If they can do it, why can't you?"
If we'd all been one community we wouldn't be where we are now.
Make's my blood boil!
I would like to get behind everything YD has said firstly about this issue (not the personal stuff about others).
I would like to add however that superboy is very good at his job and is not the type to voice his discontent and bring others down or let it affect his proffesionalism on board or attitude to customers (well done SB).
My own personal feelings on these issues are this.... (if anyone's interested)
I voted YES for SFLGW because it was indeed a way forward for EFLGW which was in fairness a fleet that could not go down in morale any further. and of course I wanted an opportunity to do something different and the chance to go up the ladder and earn more money.
I put my faith in the unions that they would do their best and then live with the consequences.
Well... I for one was not totally happy with the package put together for SFLGW. Mostly the CM package (which more work than CSD and less money), and of course now we have all the wrangling with breakfast and the tipping etc etc.
I am of course a realist and knew that a crew member would be taken off and we'd lose a PSR maybe. But hey BA would probably get their way or the union would come to a compromise.
I still think we need a extra PSR of the 4 class, and I guess we'll see if that happens.
What really gets me now is this......(deep breath)
While all this SF negotiation was going on I never once saw a message from either union (particularly for LHR) saying how outrageous the SF proposal was and how everyone was going to go on strike then if it was passed and CSD was done away with and we lost a PSR etc etc etc.
Now....I'm no brain of Britain, or fortune teller. BUT ANY IDIOT COULD SEE THAT IF SFLGW WAS ALLOWED TO GO AHEAD AND OPPERATE 777 UNDER THE T&C'S WE DO NOW, THAT IT WOULD ONLY BE A MATTER OF TIME BEFORE THEY TRY TO DO IT AT LHR!
I'm a little supprised they've attempted it this soon, but hey...it shows they mean business.
I'm also very sceptical of the fact that the fact that ONLY WHEN THE CSD RANK IS THREATENED AT LHR IS IT NOW AN ISSUE.
Again...any idiot could see that if you let it get dissolved at LGW then it will eventually happen at LHR. The rot will have already set in!!!
Retreating within fortress LHR is not going to save you as the management and accountants are living in there with you!!!!
SO.. now when the reps at LHR (all CSD's pretty much I think) realise that theri jobs are now up for grabs by the company the toys are out of the pram and STRIKE STRIKE is the call (and we're all supposed to join in).
I realise their are lots of other issues tagged onto this ballot as well, many just and with foundation.
However don't bleat on about losing the CSD rank or making it a working position or "just look at your SCM colleagues at LGW".
THEY LET IT HAPPEN. EFLGW could have been absorbed into the NSP years ago and none of this rubbish would be happening now...but no. The LHR unions didn't want it, so it didn't happen.
Now look what's happened. All that eliteism and xenophobia that was directed at EOG/EFLGW is now coming back to bite them in the arse. And it could have all been prevented.
Do I sound bitter? Good! I am when it comes to this subject. All this talk of we all have to rally to the war cry of STRIKE STRIKE and be one team/unit/community.
WE'RE NOT ONE COMMUNITY! There's LHR/ and what's left of WWLGW, and then there's everyone else.
By selling EOG/EFLGW/SFLGW down the river all these years and not allowing us into your precious NSP and allowing our T&C's to be dilluted down again and again, you've ended up selling your own down the river by giving the company a template (SFLGW) to bash you over the head with now at every negotiation by saying "Well they do it this way at LGW. We want to do it here at LHR. And why not? If they can do it, why can't you?"
If we'd all been one community we wouldn't be where we are now.
Make's my blood boil!
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It's a difficult call this one. Any workforce will fight to keep the most favourable conditions, but unfortunately for BA WW crews, the tide is totally against them. The airline industry is nowadays based on the low cost model (no just in the sense of no frills on board!) and BA WW crews are the only UK aircrews working under very dated and inflexible terms and conditions. The market forces demand that airlines have minimal costs in order to survive such a competitive field, and what was right for crews in 1993 is no longer true. Other airlines have proved that you do NOT need 4 pursers on a 747 and a "CSD", for example! The CSD role.....no comment.
Why have WW crews allowed the rest of the BA operation (regions, LGW, overseas ground staff) to take huge cuts, while they sat back and counted their pennies? Now they are under threat, they expect everyone to come running to the rescue - guess what, people won't.
Harsh words? Possibly, but change is around the corner in one sense or another. Food for thought: in view of other regions/airports taking massive cuts, what do LHR crews propose they can do to make the operation more cost effective? Are crews actually prepared to do anything?
Why have WW crews allowed the rest of the BA operation (regions, LGW, overseas ground staff) to take huge cuts, while they sat back and counted their pennies? Now they are under threat, they expect everyone to come running to the rescue - guess what, people won't.
Harsh words? Possibly, but change is around the corner in one sense or another. Food for thought: in view of other regions/airports taking massive cuts, what do LHR crews propose they can do to make the operation more cost effective? Are crews actually prepared to do anything?
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I do agree, we are paid very well in terms of the industry we are in. However, it isn't ALL about money for all of us. I would trade in a proportion of my take home pay for less flying and greater flexibility IN A FLASH.
I have a friend whom flies for KLM longhaul. He earns about 30% less than I do. However, he bids for every one of his trips and works so little that he has a second job. In fact, he sees going to work like going on holiday. Similar for another friend who flies for AF. They are able to be flexible with their days off, for example, by taking only a day or two off a short trip and have a bunch of greater days off together later in the month.
The reality of life at LHR WW: we can request two days off in the country a month. We can request two trips per year. All of these are REQUESTS and so are often not granted. Promotion (as current with a CSD and FOUR Pursers on a jumbo) takes around 10 years. Same for First Class training. Part-time: Whats that????
Now A LOT of this is down to our own doing. Because of the complexity of our ancient scheduling 'agreements' we have where as a certain number of days are fixed per trip etc etc etc.
Change for us at LHR WW would not necessarily be a bad thing in many respects. I cannot justify the need for a CSD and 4 Pursers on a jumbo. I totally understand the reasons WHY the union doesn't want the position removed (freeze on promotion, redundancy etc) but we still know that it is a tough one to justify.
Ditto the hourly rate. A 3 day Cairo for us based on the current 'meal allowence' system is worth about £60. A 3 day BOM or DEL isn't worth much more. Many crew are saying that it is time that the hourly rate be looked at again, as it is only a repacement for meal allowances and not box payments, overtime etc.
As for the scheduling agreements. Well, personally I would rather get rid of many of the agreements we do have and see them replaced with more flexible agreements, ones that can work both to MY advantage AND to BA's.
The sticking point though, seems to be the 'bully boy tactics. I don't just apply this to BA management (who definitely are bullys) but also to many of the BASSA reps (whom display total ignorance and arrogance at times). I AM a member of BASSA because it is absolutely necessary in BA.
I just wish that it could be a bit of give and take:
BA Manager: "we want to change X, Y and Z and we are prepared to give you this in return...."
But it never happens like that. It is just like "we want to take x, y and z and then we've got that we will come back for a, b and c......".
Now I know BASSA probably aren't the best at 'negotiating' either. I just wish they could find some common ground and a deal that would benefit the ENTIRE crew community as well as BA.
I have a friend whom flies for KLM longhaul. He earns about 30% less than I do. However, he bids for every one of his trips and works so little that he has a second job. In fact, he sees going to work like going on holiday. Similar for another friend who flies for AF. They are able to be flexible with their days off, for example, by taking only a day or two off a short trip and have a bunch of greater days off together later in the month.
The reality of life at LHR WW: we can request two days off in the country a month. We can request two trips per year. All of these are REQUESTS and so are often not granted. Promotion (as current with a CSD and FOUR Pursers on a jumbo) takes around 10 years. Same for First Class training. Part-time: Whats that????
Now A LOT of this is down to our own doing. Because of the complexity of our ancient scheduling 'agreements' we have where as a certain number of days are fixed per trip etc etc etc.
Change for us at LHR WW would not necessarily be a bad thing in many respects. I cannot justify the need for a CSD and 4 Pursers on a jumbo. I totally understand the reasons WHY the union doesn't want the position removed (freeze on promotion, redundancy etc) but we still know that it is a tough one to justify.
Ditto the hourly rate. A 3 day Cairo for us based on the current 'meal allowence' system is worth about £60. A 3 day BOM or DEL isn't worth much more. Many crew are saying that it is time that the hourly rate be looked at again, as it is only a repacement for meal allowances and not box payments, overtime etc.
As for the scheduling agreements. Well, personally I would rather get rid of many of the agreements we do have and see them replaced with more flexible agreements, ones that can work both to MY advantage AND to BA's.
The sticking point though, seems to be the 'bully boy tactics. I don't just apply this to BA management (who definitely are bullys) but also to many of the BASSA reps (whom display total ignorance and arrogance at times). I AM a member of BASSA because it is absolutely necessary in BA.
I just wish that it could be a bit of give and take:
BA Manager: "we want to change X, Y and Z and we are prepared to give you this in return...."
But it never happens like that. It is just like "we want to take x, y and z and then we've got that we will come back for a, b and c......".
Now I know BASSA probably aren't the best at 'negotiating' either. I just wish they could find some common ground and a deal that would benefit the ENTIRE crew community as well as BA.
Last edited by keeperboy; 5th Dec 2006 at 14:53. Reason: spelling