QANTAS discussions (All Bases) - Merged
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Own the Flying
Yes we DID own that type of flying.
Longhaul/International whatever you want to call it.It WAS ours.
The company had been at us for years to do shorthaul/domestic flying we declined.
Occasionaly when shorthaul capacity was short we would run a jumbo up and down the east coast or across to Perth.
Trips you lot didn't enjoy anyway.
We respected your circumstances and your flying.
The same courtesy was not extended to us.
Our network is shrinking for two main reasons
1.QF management have got no idea about pioneering new routes or how to be competitive.
2.The wetbacks from shorthaul
If you have a look at the background of some the senior management in this company you will find many are ex TAA.
They lived for years in a cosy duopoly with Ansett.
They weren't required to be be innovative or competitive.
A zero skillset for running an international airline in an incredibly competitive environment.
The same zero skillset applies to shorthaul doing international flying.
You have absolutely no idea how to operate a longhaul sector or solve associated problems.
The shorthaul/anal attitude toward groundstaff is becoming legendary throughout Asia.
Groundstaff have asked who they need to talk about the unprofessional behaviour of shorthaul Pursers(they are not CSMs bootlaces)
We have obliged them with this information.
Take a good look at yourself.
All those years of duopoly have made you complacent and recalcitrant.
Wake up and get with the programme!!
Longhaul/International whatever you want to call it.It WAS ours.
The company had been at us for years to do shorthaul/domestic flying we declined.
Occasionaly when shorthaul capacity was short we would run a jumbo up and down the east coast or across to Perth.
Trips you lot didn't enjoy anyway.
We respected your circumstances and your flying.
The same courtesy was not extended to us.
Our network is shrinking for two main reasons
1.QF management have got no idea about pioneering new routes or how to be competitive.
2.The wetbacks from shorthaul
If you have a look at the background of some the senior management in this company you will find many are ex TAA.
They lived for years in a cosy duopoly with Ansett.
They weren't required to be be innovative or competitive.
A zero skillset for running an international airline in an incredibly competitive environment.
The same zero skillset applies to shorthaul doing international flying.
You have absolutely no idea how to operate a longhaul sector or solve associated problems.
The shorthaul/anal attitude toward groundstaff is becoming legendary throughout Asia.
Groundstaff have asked who they need to talk about the unprofessional behaviour of shorthaul Pursers(they are not CSMs bootlaces)
We have obliged them with this information.
Take a good look at yourself.
All those years of duopoly have made you complacent and recalcitrant.
Wake up and get with the programme!!
Last edited by Simon Templar; 4th Nov 2005 at 05:23.
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S/H v L/H
Totally agree with you Ride The Wave.
The Perth Base is past tense-they WERE a great bunch of people that were betrayed by the "lies and deceit" that is a Hallmark of the Red Rat these days.
As I have previously stated : the flying that I idi with the Perth base was a real treat. They have been treated appalingly, but in 24 months time when we're tearing each other apart with EBA #8 ( if thats what they will call it then ????@@!@$%$%% )......Perth L/H will be a distant memory.
Watching and reading about the proposed legislatation ( Work Choices) I for one feel that the end of life for ALL crew ( as we know it ) is nigh !!!! Howard and his criminal mates have effectively handed big business a mandate to crush all Unions and resistance to fair working conditions. I am preparing for life after Qantas( going back to my previous profession ) because I don't think our pay pay & conditions will be "tolerated " by the new order.
God help any one with "off spring" ...............if ever there was an excuse for contraception-=WORK CHOICES. The next generation will be screwed.
I'm bailing -12months P/T....hopefully-then I'm outta here, in search for am employer that treats its people with RESPECT & DIGNITY.
The Perth Base is past tense-they WERE a great bunch of people that were betrayed by the "lies and deceit" that is a Hallmark of the Red Rat these days.
As I have previously stated : the flying that I idi with the Perth base was a real treat. They have been treated appalingly, but in 24 months time when we're tearing each other apart with EBA #8 ( if thats what they will call it then ????@@!@$%$%% )......Perth L/H will be a distant memory.
Watching and reading about the proposed legislatation ( Work Choices) I for one feel that the end of life for ALL crew ( as we know it ) is nigh !!!! Howard and his criminal mates have effectively handed big business a mandate to crush all Unions and resistance to fair working conditions. I am preparing for life after Qantas( going back to my previous profession ) because I don't think our pay pay & conditions will be "tolerated " by the new order.
God help any one with "off spring" ...............if ever there was an excuse for contraception-=WORK CHOICES. The next generation will be screwed.
I'm bailing -12months P/T....hopefully-then I'm outta here, in search for am employer that treats its people with RESPECT & DIGNITY.
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Say what you will Mr Simon Templar...but... my uniform, my pay and my little name badge all says Customer Service Manager
...oh and dont forget my level that is above yours for getting me on the aircraft when i'm on staff travel!
It does matter what you say, call me a purser or whatever...it's all in a name anyway.
At the end of the day buddy, you'll be probably working under me one day anyway.
See you on 4 legs....or maybe a HKG, SIN, etc etc .... You can come and see what hard work is.
...oh and dont forget my level that is above yours for getting me on the aircraft when i'm on staff travel!
It does matter what you say, call me a purser or whatever...it's all in a name anyway.
At the end of the day buddy, you'll be probably working under me one day anyway.
See you on 4 legs....or maybe a HKG, SIN, etc etc .... You can come and see what hard work is.
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Wet My pants Laughing
Sydney S/h
You make a lot of assumptions
Now that I know you are a Purser(3 steps below a CSS in ability)my stafftravel category is way above yours.
Lets put you in charge of a jumbo and send you to LAX
It would be like putting a neanderthal in charge of a Phantom.
In life you earn respect..it is not given.
You have yet to earn yours.
My little friend I will never be under you.
Although the thought is not without merit
God this red is good...Wynns Coonawarra Estate Cab/Sav/Merlot...absolutely delicious
You make a lot of assumptions
Now that I know you are a Purser(3 steps below a CSS in ability)my stafftravel category is way above yours.
Lets put you in charge of a jumbo and send you to LAX
It would be like putting a neanderthal in charge of a Phantom.
In life you earn respect..it is not given.
You have yet to earn yours.
My little friend I will never be under you.
Although the thought is not without merit
God this red is good...Wynns Coonawarra Estate Cab/Sav/Merlot...absolutely delicious
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Did I just interrupt a pissing contest?
For goodness sakes grow up. Direct your vitriol at the management who are playing the two divisions up against each other, not to the individual.
Frankly I don't give a rats posterior whose role is more mighty and what priority you get on duty or staff travel. Who cares? You are doing different roles for a different purpose.
Start behaving like mature adults. A little debate is fine but do we really have to denegrate to this childish discussion?
Ta
SG
For goodness sakes grow up. Direct your vitriol at the management who are playing the two divisions up against each other, not to the individual.
Frankly I don't give a rats posterior whose role is more mighty and what priority you get on duty or staff travel. Who cares? You are doing different roles for a different purpose.
Start behaving like mature adults. A little debate is fine but do we really have to denegrate to this childish discussion?
Ta
SG
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What The...?
She made it personal.
She alluded to stafftravel.
I was generalizing.
Targetting no one person in particular.
Your response is indicative of the behaviour I was alluding to.
Obviously this discussion is a little above you.
Oh look...the sandpit is free..go girl.
Who moderates this forum?
Oh I know...now I'm in trouble.
Bugger..another bloody name change
She alluded to stafftravel.
I was generalizing.
Targetting no one person in particular.
Your response is indicative of the behaviour I was alluding to.
Obviously this discussion is a little above you.
Oh look...the sandpit is free..go girl.
Who moderates this forum?
Oh I know...now I'm in trouble.
Bugger..another bloody name change
Last edited by Simon Templar; 4th Nov 2005 at 10:58.
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Oh God!
Such fantastic repartee.Wow!
Now,back to the point.
Your next EBA is looming.Have you given it any thought?
What are the issues?
Are you happy with the previous EBA?
You are about to do DRW Mumbai.
If you are not careful it will get a lot worse.
Personally I adapt.
I really don't care what happens to you lot.
Its just that that you are so naive.
Bambi dazzled by headlights comes to mind.
Whatever the company does I will find something that suits me.
Maybe I am becoming sentimental and do feel sorry for "The weakest link"..shorthaul/regional whatever.
Ring Shayne Nealon...she protected you for 25 years.
Until, she too sold out.
Now,back to the point.
Your next EBA is looming.Have you given it any thought?
What are the issues?
Are you happy with the previous EBA?
You are about to do DRW Mumbai.
If you are not careful it will get a lot worse.
Personally I adapt.
I really don't care what happens to you lot.
Its just that that you are so naive.
Bambi dazzled by headlights comes to mind.
Whatever the company does I will find something that suits me.
Maybe I am becoming sentimental and do feel sorry for "The weakest link"..shorthaul/regional whatever.
Ring Shayne Nealon...she protected you for 25 years.
Until, she too sold out.
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The Pills???
Not sure if it is a pill
As I focus on it, it appears to be getting bigger
Is it the light at the end of the tunnel
Hope so
I just hope it is not another train heading this way
Question - Do you enjoy the Job??
If yes, get back to that - enjoying the job
If no, move on and stop the attacks - you are better than that
As I focus on it, it appears to be getting bigger
Is it the light at the end of the tunnel
Hope so
I just hope it is not another train heading this way
Question - Do you enjoy the Job??
If yes, get back to that - enjoying the job
If no, move on and stop the attacks - you are better than that
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Quote-
"if yes, get back to that - enjoying the job
If no, move on and stop the attacks - you are better than that"
-------------------
Whats the matter? Feeling a little heat. Having difficulting finding FA's that smile???
Don't like the fact that Qantas is FINALLY getting the CC that they deserve?????
Cause and effect........just cause and effect.
In case you morons havn't twigged yet?
The ball is in YOUR court, not ours...................
"if yes, get back to that - enjoying the job
If no, move on and stop the attacks - you are better than that"
-------------------
Whats the matter? Feeling a little heat. Having difficulting finding FA's that smile???
Don't like the fact that Qantas is FINALLY getting the CC that they deserve?????
Cause and effect........just cause and effect.
In case you morons havn't twigged yet?
The ball is in YOUR court, not ours...................
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Anyway..........Perth base closure and transfers
Does anyone know whether you must actually apply to change base (as in full base transfer application) now that Perth is closing (assuming you don't wish to be PER S/H) ?
If you "apply" for transfer does this mean you may lose "moving" benefits ($$$) as you have not applied for transfer, and are not being assigned?
Does anyone know whether you must actually apply to change base (as in full base transfer application) now that Perth is closing (assuming you don't wish to be PER S/H) ?
If you "apply" for transfer does this mean you may lose "moving" benefits ($$$) as you have not applied for transfer, and are not being assigned?
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Its was all quite on the long haul v short haul battle, now the Perth base closure is announced and its all on once again.
As other short haulers and I have pointed out in the past the regional flying was sold to us as a shared arrangement on the A330, this was a new aircraft which wasnt covered by the divisional flying agreement.
We were certainly not told this would result in the closure of long haul bases or this was the companies long term intentions and as much as I disagree with a lot of decisions made by our union I highly doubt they even knew this would be the case.
The regional flying we do out of Sydney/Melbourne/Brisbane is nothing in the big scheme of things. Long Haul flight attendants have given away more flying through their own hand and with the assistance of your own union than we could ever dream of, such as the LHR, Bangkok and Auckland bases. I wonder if you still had access to all of the flying undertaken by these off-shore bases which you willingly agreed to be established would you care about the Hong Kong flying we do from the east coast.
You are correct speedbirdhouse the flying has been transferred to another group within Qantas is this any different from transferring your flying as long haulers like to call it to Australian Australians which was established with the support and assistance of your own union on salaries and conditions well below your own. Should short haulers be knocking on the door of Jetstar and Jetconnect for taking our flying? No because we are realistic enough to know we dont own the flying.
You also state speedbirdhouse that the sooner both the International FAAA and short haul FAAA get together the better off we will all be. Well if I am not mistaken we were all together but as noted on a previous thread Qantas long haul crew didnt like the fact that Ansett Flight Attendants were making decisions about their life and future therefore it was split into the unions we now see today. If long haul remained united with short haul way back than we wouldnt be seeing short haul doing your flying right now and we would have all been better off as you say I agree 100%.
Simon Templar you are correct it was your flying, long haul firstly gave this away to Bangkok and Auckland and now London. How can you claim ownership to flying that you give away. If you are prepared to give up your flying why shouldnt other divisions of the company gain access to this when new aircraft are introduced such as the A330.
You are wrong a lot of crew enjoy flying up and down the east coast and to Perth and after Ansett a lot of our money trips for junior crew were removed and replaced by the 747. Clearly we were unhappy at the loss of income but respected we didnt own the flying, there was a major down turn internationally due to Sept 11 and a lot of long haul positions were at risk. However when we wanted additional tasman flying after things picked up again to make up for long haul undertaking 747 domestically under the divisional flying agreement your union went off to the IR commission because Qantas allocated us some of your Auckland trips. Therefore I really dont think you respected our circumstances and flying at all. I firmly believe a lot of courtesy has been extended to long haul especially during 2001/02 when a significant number of long haul crew were transferred to short haul to avoid them loosing their job.
I am not going to get into petty disputes about who can and cannot operate internationally better. I see no difference in a long haul and short haul CSM operating an A330 up to Asia. Clearly I cant comment on the 747 as I have never operated that aircraft.
Westozflyer I do feel for you and all the crew in Perth but at least you were given options it could have been a whole lot worse if you were given nothing except the thanks and here's your cheque letter.
I generally have the greatest respect for all my fellow crew but to continually blame short haul for taking some Hong Kong's out of the east coast and for the closure of the Perth long haul base is way off the mark when you take into consideration what your own division has done to itself.
As other short haulers and I have pointed out in the past the regional flying was sold to us as a shared arrangement on the A330, this was a new aircraft which wasnt covered by the divisional flying agreement.
We were certainly not told this would result in the closure of long haul bases or this was the companies long term intentions and as much as I disagree with a lot of decisions made by our union I highly doubt they even knew this would be the case.
The regional flying we do out of Sydney/Melbourne/Brisbane is nothing in the big scheme of things. Long Haul flight attendants have given away more flying through their own hand and with the assistance of your own union than we could ever dream of, such as the LHR, Bangkok and Auckland bases. I wonder if you still had access to all of the flying undertaken by these off-shore bases which you willingly agreed to be established would you care about the Hong Kong flying we do from the east coast.
You are correct speedbirdhouse the flying has been transferred to another group within Qantas is this any different from transferring your flying as long haulers like to call it to Australian Australians which was established with the support and assistance of your own union on salaries and conditions well below your own. Should short haulers be knocking on the door of Jetstar and Jetconnect for taking our flying? No because we are realistic enough to know we dont own the flying.
You also state speedbirdhouse that the sooner both the International FAAA and short haul FAAA get together the better off we will all be. Well if I am not mistaken we were all together but as noted on a previous thread Qantas long haul crew didnt like the fact that Ansett Flight Attendants were making decisions about their life and future therefore it was split into the unions we now see today. If long haul remained united with short haul way back than we wouldnt be seeing short haul doing your flying right now and we would have all been better off as you say I agree 100%.
Simon Templar you are correct it was your flying, long haul firstly gave this away to Bangkok and Auckland and now London. How can you claim ownership to flying that you give away. If you are prepared to give up your flying why shouldnt other divisions of the company gain access to this when new aircraft are introduced such as the A330.
You are wrong a lot of crew enjoy flying up and down the east coast and to Perth and after Ansett a lot of our money trips for junior crew were removed and replaced by the 747. Clearly we were unhappy at the loss of income but respected we didnt own the flying, there was a major down turn internationally due to Sept 11 and a lot of long haul positions were at risk. However when we wanted additional tasman flying after things picked up again to make up for long haul undertaking 747 domestically under the divisional flying agreement your union went off to the IR commission because Qantas allocated us some of your Auckland trips. Therefore I really dont think you respected our circumstances and flying at all. I firmly believe a lot of courtesy has been extended to long haul especially during 2001/02 when a significant number of long haul crew were transferred to short haul to avoid them loosing their job.
I am not going to get into petty disputes about who can and cannot operate internationally better. I see no difference in a long haul and short haul CSM operating an A330 up to Asia. Clearly I cant comment on the 747 as I have never operated that aircraft.
Westozflyer I do feel for you and all the crew in Perth but at least you were given options it could have been a whole lot worse if you were given nothing except the thanks and here's your cheque letter.
I generally have the greatest respect for all my fellow crew but to continually blame short haul for taking some Hong Kong's out of the east coast and for the closure of the Perth long haul base is way off the mark when you take into consideration what your own division has done to itself.
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Naive Nonsense
A most eloquent piece of naive nonsense.
You neglected to mention why shorthaul voted to penalise those transferring by having Bans payments reduced.
You also neglected to mention that transfers are a two way street.
I don't begrudge those very senior (thirty +years)shorthaulers coming across to spend their last years of flying shopping in Europe and New York.
The amount of regional flying you do will continue to grow.Soon you will be working harder than us and for a lot less renumeration.Bombay is just the beginning
More fool you.
You are correct about Ansett Shorthaul.
Many of us wanted the FAAA to be company based not industry based.
It would be tantamount to Qantaslink dictating your terms.
Whats done is done.
You are being presented with a second chance ..your next EBA.
Lets hope shorthaul don't screw this up.
You neglected to mention why shorthaul voted to penalise those transferring by having Bans payments reduced.
You also neglected to mention that transfers are a two way street.
I don't begrudge those very senior (thirty +years)shorthaulers coming across to spend their last years of flying shopping in Europe and New York.
The amount of regional flying you do will continue to grow.Soon you will be working harder than us and for a lot less renumeration.Bombay is just the beginning
More fool you.
You are correct about Ansett Shorthaul.
Many of us wanted the FAAA to be company based not industry based.
It would be tantamount to Qantaslink dictating your terms.
Whats done is done.
You are being presented with a second chance ..your next EBA.
Lets hope shorthaul don't screw this up.
Last edited by Simon Templar; 5th Nov 2005 at 10:24.
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Union Demographics
The majority of crew are now female.
As a demographic they are more conservative,less militant and almost indifferent to IR matters
The events over the last few years are evidence of this .
The overseas bases wouldn't exist if it wasn't for the conservative 4% who voted it up.
The same can be said for the Shorthaul EBA.
This is not sexist.... its fact.
GalleyHag's post is a perfect example of this conservative naive standpoint
As a demographic they are more conservative,less militant and almost indifferent to IR matters
The events over the last few years are evidence of this .
The overseas bases wouldn't exist if it wasn't for the conservative 4% who voted it up.
The same can be said for the Shorthaul EBA.
This is not sexist.... its fact.
GalleyHag's post is a perfect example of this conservative naive standpoint
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I had my say on the issues raised by long haul crew and I respect your opinion.
Transfers "were" a 2 way street if you look more closely at the numbers they have very much been one way street from long haul to short haul.
See you had to go for the childish weakest link comment who's talking nonsense now.
What now women are to blame give me a break, as I said the facts speak for themselves you GAVE away your flying so dont come crying to me over your decision, well the decisions made by the women in your division.
I will let you get back to fighting your cause, good luck.
Transfers "were" a 2 way street if you look more closely at the numbers they have very much been one way street from long haul to short haul.
See you had to go for the childish weakest link comment who's talking nonsense now.
What now women are to blame give me a break, as I said the facts speak for themselves you GAVE away your flying so dont come crying to me over your decision, well the decisions made by the women in your division.
I will let you get back to fighting your cause, good luck.