QANTAS discussions (All Bases) - Merged
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Ricciricardo.
Didnt you check it out what it was like in the "real" world, before you left?
That is the first thing I would do!
So it looks like you took it for granted! well that is your punishment!
Didnt you check it out what it was like in the "real" world, before you left?
That is the first thing I would do!
So it looks like you took it for granted! well that is your punishment!
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cartx,
For whatever reason I left q/f l/h is irrellevent and is strictly my personal business, all I wanted to stress is that things are not as bad as some punters on this forum make out, and they should be thankful for being in a occupation that required very little formal education and training for a well above average income.
I don't understand you saying that I am being "punished" what's that all about???? I work harder now than I ever did at l/h but it's far from a penance! actually it's quite rewarding and a very positive environment to be in.
R
For whatever reason I left q/f l/h is irrellevent and is strictly my personal business, all I wanted to stress is that things are not as bad as some punters on this forum make out, and they should be thankful for being in a occupation that required very little formal education and training for a well above average income.
I don't understand you saying that I am being "punished" what's that all about???? I work harder now than I ever did at l/h but it's far from a penance! actually it's quite rewarding and a very positive environment to be in.
R
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Ricci.
Yes its your business and who said we were interested in why you left!
Why do you want to "stress" to us that we should be thankful!
I am thankful and I appreciate my job, that is why I'm still doing it! and I object to people who are not in the industry anymore telling me all about it.
You have now left the industry its time to "move on" and leave us to our "business".
Things have changed since you left!
Enjoy your new carreer and I wish you well, but dont begrudge us!
Yes its your business and who said we were interested in why you left!
Why do you want to "stress" to us that we should be thankful!
I am thankful and I appreciate my job, that is why I'm still doing it! and I object to people who are not in the industry anymore telling me all about it.
You have now left the industry its time to "move on" and leave us to our "business".
Things have changed since you left!
Enjoy your new carreer and I wish you well, but dont begrudge us!
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Guys, please dont take my post the wrong way.
I certainly dont begrudge anyone for the conditions you work under. God knows I wish I worked there!!
Good luck to you.
Also I did make a mistake it was a $1000 bonus, not $1500..
I certainly dont begrudge anyone for the conditions you work under. God knows I wish I worked there!!
Good luck to you.
Also I did make a mistake it was a $1000 bonus, not $1500..
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Work with Qantas and remain employed
Yep it is sad to see the Long Haul Cabin Crew Base Perth closing. Thank God we have options and decent ones at that.
Qantas has been on the road toward a Sustainable Future for some - that is where we as cabin crew MUST FOCUS - on our own Sustainable Future.
Please dont propell ourselves into a downward negative spiral - where will that get us???
Business is business and as wise people we must realise we have to move with the times.
Do our skills and professionalism contribute positivly to the business or has our attitude of self importance surpassed our role.
Can the market place financially support the demands we put on it?
More the point are our customers willing to pay a high price to travel with us?
Just look at the prices we charge compared to our compeditors.
It is 2005 we work in a global industry where the dollar is the bottom line - we must look at our individual contribution to Qantas and ask ourselves what can we do to sustaine our future at this developing business.
As opposed to degrading management be thankful as a team we all are on a profitable road where our future is sustainable
Ride The Wave
Qantas has been on the road toward a Sustainable Future for some - that is where we as cabin crew MUST FOCUS - on our own Sustainable Future.
Please dont propell ourselves into a downward negative spiral - where will that get us???
Business is business and as wise people we must realise we have to move with the times.
Do our skills and professionalism contribute positivly to the business or has our attitude of self importance surpassed our role.
Can the market place financially support the demands we put on it?
More the point are our customers willing to pay a high price to travel with us?
Just look at the prices we charge compared to our compeditors.
It is 2005 we work in a global industry where the dollar is the bottom line - we must look at our individual contribution to Qantas and ask ourselves what can we do to sustaine our future at this developing business.
As opposed to degrading management be thankful as a team we all are on a profitable road where our future is sustainable
Ride The Wave
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Interesting............
I was watching foxtel tonight and saw a program on Neil Perry and he was sprucing on about food and his resturant Rockpool etc etc.
It was quite an interesting show and he was going on about the entire resturant experiance - not just the food but the service,ambiance etc. Pretty much what they try and "reproduce" onboard in our premium cabins (or attempt to!!!).
Anyway....he said to get the best committed staff and to have people who are focused on the job he employs only fulltime staff. He's attitude was that they need to have these people to get the best results.
Perry said that it's better to have good food and great service rather than great food and average service.
My long winded point was that .....why are we employing a casual workforce?? This is not a dig against the casuals, BUT, our menu's and service are based off the whole rockpool experiance, why isnt our staffing procedures the same!!
I was watching foxtel tonight and saw a program on Neil Perry and he was sprucing on about food and his resturant Rockpool etc etc.
It was quite an interesting show and he was going on about the entire resturant experiance - not just the food but the service,ambiance etc. Pretty much what they try and "reproduce" onboard in our premium cabins (or attempt to!!!).
Anyway....he said to get the best committed staff and to have people who are focused on the job he employs only fulltime staff. He's attitude was that they need to have these people to get the best results.
Perry said that it's better to have good food and great service rather than great food and average service.
My long winded point was that .....why are we employing a casual workforce?? This is not a dig against the casuals, BUT, our menu's and service are based off the whole rockpool experiance, why isnt our staffing procedures the same!!
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You [and Neil Perry] make some interesting observations.
The differences in attitude to staffing arrangements between Perry and Qantas [Dixon] illustrate a short term verses long term approach to business success.
Perry wants [and needs] quality staff as the longterm reputation of his business demands it.
Qantas [Dixon] wants [and needs] cheap staff as his performance bonus demands it.
I believe "ride the wave" is the new term used to define this approach.
I'll cut and paste again the recent Financial Times article re this approach as it is quite illustrative.
Quote-
"Halfway around the world and back and increasingly confused.
........its now somewhere between Wednesday and Thursday and I believe I'm on the QF1 to London. The reason I'm unsure is that there's barely an Australian crew member in sight.
The back of the plane seems to be manned by Thai crew and First and Business by English flight attendants.
The experience doesn't feel very Qantas- more a set of disconnected people working on a 747-400 that's the flag carrier for a country they have no relationship with.
No doubt there are some short term cost savings, but for me, who's been around the world in a week, i'd like to know exactly where I am and who I'm flying with.
Qantas's finance department might be seeing an upside, but I'm only seeing brand erosion."
End quote.
The differences in attitude to staffing arrangements between Perry and Qantas [Dixon] illustrate a short term verses long term approach to business success.
Perry wants [and needs] quality staff as the longterm reputation of his business demands it.
Qantas [Dixon] wants [and needs] cheap staff as his performance bonus demands it.
I believe "ride the wave" is the new term used to define this approach.
I'll cut and paste again the recent Financial Times article re this approach as it is quite illustrative.
Quote-
"Halfway around the world and back and increasingly confused.
........its now somewhere between Wednesday and Thursday and I believe I'm on the QF1 to London. The reason I'm unsure is that there's barely an Australian crew member in sight.
The back of the plane seems to be manned by Thai crew and First and Business by English flight attendants.
The experience doesn't feel very Qantas- more a set of disconnected people working on a 747-400 that's the flag carrier for a country they have no relationship with.
No doubt there are some short term cost savings, but for me, who's been around the world in a week, i'd like to know exactly where I am and who I'm flying with.
Qantas's finance department might be seeing an upside, but I'm only seeing brand erosion."
End quote.
Last edited by speedbirdhouse; 24th Oct 2005 at 10:56.
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Here is the entire article, just in case you went searching like me:
Financial Times
Home UK
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Main page content:
Halfway around the world and back and increasingly confused
By Tyler Brule
Published: July 23 2005 03:00 | Last updated: July 23 2005 03:00
The past week was a bit faster than usual for your cloud-bound correspondent. Flying halfway around the world and back again in just over a week, here's what I found.
LHR-LAX-LHR-ZRH-LHR-NRT-SYD-BKK-LHR: those were the letters that jumped off the page when my intrepid assistant Gaby handed me my week's itinerary last Monday. Any regular traveller would recognise that the second and third LHRs should have been deleted and the ZRH inserted just after the BKK. Even the less- seasoned flier would know that London-Los Angeles-London-Zurich- London-Tokyo-Sydney-Bangkok-London is pushing it (no matter where you're sitting on the plane), but a board meeting in Zurich demanded I return to Europe before embarking on my Pacific Rim runaround.
The first leg of my journey started in seat 1A on the early BA to LA.
I knew I was in for an irritating flight as soon as the canapes were placed in front of the gentleman across the aisle. My fellow passenger eventually decided on the prawn and roe concoction and popped it in his mouth. I normally wouldn't pay such close attention, but I was trying to peer out of his window to get a fix on our location and soon became transfixed when I noticed that he was incapable of eating with his mouth closed. Initially I dismissed the bad table manners as post-take-off nerves or a mild case of "upgrade excitement" but rapidly concluded that he was a "smacker" - the airborne adult equivalent of the screaming one-year-old.
Just as it's impossible to block out a wailing infant two rows behind you, it's equally challenging to cancel out a grown man who smacks through a five-course meal when he's within your immediate airspace. At first I tried staring at him with my best look of bewilderment. On several occasions I considered saying something and in the end had to resort to headphones to delete the sound of a pasty tongue disengaging from sticky gums.
By the time I reached Los Angeles I was in desperate need of a sugar hit, having been put off the afternoon scones and jam by my neighbour. I replenished my supplies by paying a visit to Sprinkles on Little Santa Monica in Beverly Hills. Launched in April, Sprinkles is a modernist cupcake emporium created by former Martha Stewart editor Page Marchese-Norman. Owned by Charles and Candace Nelson, the chocolate-brown, white and oak space trades in 20 varieties of cupcakes (coconut's my favourite) and is already establishing itself as a "must-give" brand. Where most cupcake emporiums have gone for twee interiors, Marchese-Norman devised a strict, orderly concept with the help of LA-based Austrian architect Andrea Lenardin Madden. Working with the best ingredients and a strong packaging concept, a national roll-out of Sprinkles can't be far off.
Back at LAX 24 hours later, and running very late for my flight to Heathrow, I only had time to grab a copy of the New Yorker and Martha Stewart Living from the newsstand. Since Martha's release, it's clear she's been spending her time under house arrest giving her editorial staff a hard time as the magazine has improved significantly. While climbing to our cruising altitude, I decided that I have to build a screened-in summer room something like the one Martha's team have created in her July issue.
Connecting to Zurich the following afternoon I managed to leave my Fay navy blazer on my Swiss flight and was quite convinced I'd never see it again. By the time I'd finished my board meeting the next morning, the jacket had been recovered and was waiting for me at terminal one. The lady at lost and found proudly told me that pretty much everything gets returned at Zurich airport.
Two hours later I was back at Heathrow, where I picked up Gaby for the Asian portion of my tour - and her first trip to Tokyo.
As ever, the city put on a good show. In Marunouchi I visited the flagship store for Darjeeling Days - the latest concept to come from the United Arrows retail group. Aimed squarely at the male FT reader who doesn't want fashion but does want an elegant, high-quality wardrobe, the concept is already going national across Japan. In Ginza I visited the atelier of Shigeru Takizawa, who's fast becoming Tokyo's most sought after bespoke tailor. In Shinjuku I marvelled at the new-ish Isetan men's store and decided it's the new global benchmark for menswear. Although I didn't need any new garments, I still managed to walk out with a summer trilby from the old-school Tokio Hat brand, eyeglasses from Four Nines and some crisp cotton Gunze briefs.
Remembering that this was also a cultural/social study for Gaby, I took her over to the main Isetan building and gave her a tour of the pinny and slipper section. There's been a proliferation of labels churning out housedresses, aprons, headkerchiefs and little felt booties, so everyone residing in Ebisu and Aoyama can pretend they're either living off the land in Norway (the Ogg brand has cornered this look) or raising chickens in the Piemonte region of Italy.
Escaping the 40°C heat of Tokyo, Sydney greeted us with sunny skies and a crisp 18°C. Still playing tour guide to Miss Gaby, I took her to visit the newest branch of my friend Bill Granger's collection of restaurants, Bills Woollahra, on the corner of Queen Street and Moncur. This latest branch has the added benefit of an entire courtyard filled with tables.
At the time of filing this copy, it's now somewhere between Wednesday and Thursday and I believe I'm on the Qantas QF1 to London. The reason I'm unsure is that there's barely an Australian crew member in sight.
The back of the aircraft seems to be manned by Thai crew and First and Business by English flight attendants. The experience doesn't feel very Qantas - more a set of disconnected people working on a 747-400 that's the flag carrier for a country they have no relationship with. No doubt there are some short-term cost-savings, but for me, who's been around the world in a week, I'd like to know exactly where I am and who I'm flying with. Qantas's finance department might be seeing an upside, but I'm only seeing brand erosion.
[email protected]
FT link
Financial Times
Home UK
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Main page content:
Halfway around the world and back and increasingly confused
By Tyler Brule
Published: July 23 2005 03:00 | Last updated: July 23 2005 03:00
The past week was a bit faster than usual for your cloud-bound correspondent. Flying halfway around the world and back again in just over a week, here's what I found.
LHR-LAX-LHR-ZRH-LHR-NRT-SYD-BKK-LHR: those were the letters that jumped off the page when my intrepid assistant Gaby handed me my week's itinerary last Monday. Any regular traveller would recognise that the second and third LHRs should have been deleted and the ZRH inserted just after the BKK. Even the less- seasoned flier would know that London-Los Angeles-London-Zurich- London-Tokyo-Sydney-Bangkok-London is pushing it (no matter where you're sitting on the plane), but a board meeting in Zurich demanded I return to Europe before embarking on my Pacific Rim runaround.
The first leg of my journey started in seat 1A on the early BA to LA.
I knew I was in for an irritating flight as soon as the canapes were placed in front of the gentleman across the aisle. My fellow passenger eventually decided on the prawn and roe concoction and popped it in his mouth. I normally wouldn't pay such close attention, but I was trying to peer out of his window to get a fix on our location and soon became transfixed when I noticed that he was incapable of eating with his mouth closed. Initially I dismissed the bad table manners as post-take-off nerves or a mild case of "upgrade excitement" but rapidly concluded that he was a "smacker" - the airborne adult equivalent of the screaming one-year-old.
Just as it's impossible to block out a wailing infant two rows behind you, it's equally challenging to cancel out a grown man who smacks through a five-course meal when he's within your immediate airspace. At first I tried staring at him with my best look of bewilderment. On several occasions I considered saying something and in the end had to resort to headphones to delete the sound of a pasty tongue disengaging from sticky gums.
By the time I reached Los Angeles I was in desperate need of a sugar hit, having been put off the afternoon scones and jam by my neighbour. I replenished my supplies by paying a visit to Sprinkles on Little Santa Monica in Beverly Hills. Launched in April, Sprinkles is a modernist cupcake emporium created by former Martha Stewart editor Page Marchese-Norman. Owned by Charles and Candace Nelson, the chocolate-brown, white and oak space trades in 20 varieties of cupcakes (coconut's my favourite) and is already establishing itself as a "must-give" brand. Where most cupcake emporiums have gone for twee interiors, Marchese-Norman devised a strict, orderly concept with the help of LA-based Austrian architect Andrea Lenardin Madden. Working with the best ingredients and a strong packaging concept, a national roll-out of Sprinkles can't be far off.
Back at LAX 24 hours later, and running very late for my flight to Heathrow, I only had time to grab a copy of the New Yorker and Martha Stewart Living from the newsstand. Since Martha's release, it's clear she's been spending her time under house arrest giving her editorial staff a hard time as the magazine has improved significantly. While climbing to our cruising altitude, I decided that I have to build a screened-in summer room something like the one Martha's team have created in her July issue.
Connecting to Zurich the following afternoon I managed to leave my Fay navy blazer on my Swiss flight and was quite convinced I'd never see it again. By the time I'd finished my board meeting the next morning, the jacket had been recovered and was waiting for me at terminal one. The lady at lost and found proudly told me that pretty much everything gets returned at Zurich airport.
Two hours later I was back at Heathrow, where I picked up Gaby for the Asian portion of my tour - and her first trip to Tokyo.
As ever, the city put on a good show. In Marunouchi I visited the flagship store for Darjeeling Days - the latest concept to come from the United Arrows retail group. Aimed squarely at the male FT reader who doesn't want fashion but does want an elegant, high-quality wardrobe, the concept is already going national across Japan. In Ginza I visited the atelier of Shigeru Takizawa, who's fast becoming Tokyo's most sought after bespoke tailor. In Shinjuku I marvelled at the new-ish Isetan men's store and decided it's the new global benchmark for menswear. Although I didn't need any new garments, I still managed to walk out with a summer trilby from the old-school Tokio Hat brand, eyeglasses from Four Nines and some crisp cotton Gunze briefs.
Remembering that this was also a cultural/social study for Gaby, I took her over to the main Isetan building and gave her a tour of the pinny and slipper section. There's been a proliferation of labels churning out housedresses, aprons, headkerchiefs and little felt booties, so everyone residing in Ebisu and Aoyama can pretend they're either living off the land in Norway (the Ogg brand has cornered this look) or raising chickens in the Piemonte region of Italy.
Escaping the 40°C heat of Tokyo, Sydney greeted us with sunny skies and a crisp 18°C. Still playing tour guide to Miss Gaby, I took her to visit the newest branch of my friend Bill Granger's collection of restaurants, Bills Woollahra, on the corner of Queen Street and Moncur. This latest branch has the added benefit of an entire courtyard filled with tables.
At the time of filing this copy, it's now somewhere between Wednesday and Thursday and I believe I'm on the Qantas QF1 to London. The reason I'm unsure is that there's barely an Australian crew member in sight.
The back of the aircraft seems to be manned by Thai crew and First and Business by English flight attendants. The experience doesn't feel very Qantas - more a set of disconnected people working on a 747-400 that's the flag carrier for a country they have no relationship with. No doubt there are some short-term cost-savings, but for me, who's been around the world in a week, I'd like to know exactly where I am and who I'm flying with. Qantas's finance department might be seeing an upside, but I'm only seeing brand erosion.
[email protected]
FT link
Join Date: Oct 2005
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Jetconnect qantas long hal
Anyone who attended interviews in auckland for qf long haul, have you heard back? And if there is anyone on pprune who knows the what kind or rosters auck base get, how many days off per month, what the pay is like as it was never mentioned in the interviews. Strange all the airline interviews i have been too they have always said what they would pay there crew.
Jetstar are recruiting on the south island this weekend, so anyone in christchurch go on and apply.
Jetstar are recruiting on the south island this weekend, so anyone in christchurch go on and apply.
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hiiiiiiiiiiii
well i havent been this way in awhile but thought id come check up on my fellow ppruners!!!
grove- u were lucky that they held off on getting u through the rest of it, i had to go for my medical in may.... just to be told that they arent recruiting yet.... but i was never told any times or dates, just 'congratulations, ur on a shortlist for 6 months!!
wooo yeh...... not
so now in a few weeks those 6 months are up..... what are they going to do with us?????
jessssski
well i havent been this way in awhile but thought id come check up on my fellow ppruners!!!
grove- u were lucky that they held off on getting u through the rest of it, i had to go for my medical in may.... just to be told that they arent recruiting yet.... but i was never told any times or dates, just 'congratulations, ur on a shortlist for 6 months!!
wooo yeh...... not
so now in a few weeks those 6 months are up..... what are they going to do with us?????
jessssski
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lowcostjet,
Destinations have been previously mentioned on this thread. Trip lengths from 1-9 days with an average of around 6-7 days.
Days off per 56 day roster usually from 14-24 days - expect some standbys in there. Pay is around NZ$27,000 pa with a small rise after 12 months. Allowances worth approx $20,000pa.
Destinations have been previously mentioned on this thread. Trip lengths from 1-9 days with an average of around 6-7 days.
Days off per 56 day roster usually from 14-24 days - expect some standbys in there. Pay is around NZ$27,000 pa with a small rise after 12 months. Allowances worth approx $20,000pa.
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"Allowances worth approx $20,000pa."
Some of the most rubbery numbers I have ever seen.
Tuner 2's previous assersion that rosters in the order of 240 hours are no longer being generated is also false.
One has to wonder why {a Qantas S/O ?} feels the need to post such misinformation.
As an aside, things were getting rather quiet in these parts.
For a moment I thought that I would have to get a life
Some of the most rubbery numbers I have ever seen.
Tuner 2's previous assersion that rosters in the order of 240 hours are no longer being generated is also false.
One has to wonder why {a Qantas S/O ?} feels the need to post such misinformation.
As an aside, things were getting rather quiet in these parts.
For a moment I thought that I would have to get a life
Last edited by TightSlot; 29th Oct 2005 at 17:54.
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sydney s/h & speedbirdhouse,
i have to say that as a MAM casual i totally agree with your sentiments. we (MAM casuals) certainly are a cheap alternative to full time workers. although i myself am actually happy to be a casual employee (bcos im studying and want flexible work etc, etc) i really believe that what a company gives to you- is wot you give back to the company.
the hourly rate we are paid at MAM/Qantas is good (in comparison to other customer service type roles) - but not great, infact the last casual job i had paid the same hourly rate. i happily accept that a casual rate of pay is in lieu of sick pay, annual leave etc, but what i do find amazing is that we dont get paid ANY penalty rates/weekend rates /public holiday rates. every day of the year we get paid exactly the same hourly rate- no exceptions.
i guess its something that i find strange because EVERY other casual job ive ever had has paid penalty rates etc. i stay with MAM /Qantas bcos at the moment it suits me, but in general i just dont / wont work public hols anymore for this reason. More and more casuals are starting to say the same thing. infact im holding my breath to see what will happen when we are told what our 'must work' days will be for christmas / new year bcos ive already heard so many casuals say that they simply wont work......... i dont know how they will get around it?? ....take sickies, or just make a lot of noise about it all... i dont know.
I do know that in previous casual jobs in the health industry- i myself at times was happy to accept that i had a job that didnt close down over the festive season and take my turns at working christmas day, boxing day, new years day etc. but i did it knowing that i was being 'fairly renumerated' for working on these so called 'unsociable' days. so i have to say why should i work them now for the same rate of pay that i get every other day of the year?????
I enjoy doing this job for now, as a means to an end. but i certainly would never allow myself to see it as a permanent job, or one to build a future on. theres nothing 'terrible' about it of course, but i have to say theres nothing fantastic about it either really. i go in to work, i enjoy the people i work with and the day is generally quite pleasant, just like any other customer service job ive had.
i'll always do the right thing by any company i work for because thats my work ethic, but in general, but i can honestly say that i dont feel any great loyalty or passion for the job & or 'Companies' that employ us as casuals. so once again i have to say that yes i totally agree with what you have said sydney s/h i imagine that we are much cheaper than full time employees. im just glad that i havent ever let myself believe that this is anything more than a 'nice enough' job to do until i finish studying work with a company that wants& understands the value of quality staff.
i have to say that as a MAM casual i totally agree with your sentiments. we (MAM casuals) certainly are a cheap alternative to full time workers. although i myself am actually happy to be a casual employee (bcos im studying and want flexible work etc, etc) i really believe that what a company gives to you- is wot you give back to the company.
the hourly rate we are paid at MAM/Qantas is good (in comparison to other customer service type roles) - but not great, infact the last casual job i had paid the same hourly rate. i happily accept that a casual rate of pay is in lieu of sick pay, annual leave etc, but what i do find amazing is that we dont get paid ANY penalty rates/weekend rates /public holiday rates. every day of the year we get paid exactly the same hourly rate- no exceptions.
i guess its something that i find strange because EVERY other casual job ive ever had has paid penalty rates etc. i stay with MAM /Qantas bcos at the moment it suits me, but in general i just dont / wont work public hols anymore for this reason. More and more casuals are starting to say the same thing. infact im holding my breath to see what will happen when we are told what our 'must work' days will be for christmas / new year bcos ive already heard so many casuals say that they simply wont work......... i dont know how they will get around it?? ....take sickies, or just make a lot of noise about it all... i dont know.
I do know that in previous casual jobs in the health industry- i myself at times was happy to accept that i had a job that didnt close down over the festive season and take my turns at working christmas day, boxing day, new years day etc. but i did it knowing that i was being 'fairly renumerated' for working on these so called 'unsociable' days. so i have to say why should i work them now for the same rate of pay that i get every other day of the year?????
I enjoy doing this job for now, as a means to an end. but i certainly would never allow myself to see it as a permanent job, or one to build a future on. theres nothing 'terrible' about it of course, but i have to say theres nothing fantastic about it either really. i go in to work, i enjoy the people i work with and the day is generally quite pleasant, just like any other customer service job ive had.
i'll always do the right thing by any company i work for because thats my work ethic, but in general, but i can honestly say that i dont feel any great loyalty or passion for the job & or 'Companies' that employ us as casuals. so once again i have to say that yes i totally agree with what you have said sydney s/h i imagine that we are much cheaper than full time employees. im just glad that i havent ever let myself believe that this is anything more than a 'nice enough' job to do until i finish studying work with a company that wants& understands the value of quality staff.
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Jeesh andie74 I hope you are studying English!
Penalty rates as a MAM casual just simply don't exist. I mean seriously your hourly rate is not exactly peanuts now is it?
Frankly, I think you're in a better position being with MAM getting (what is it now??) $27 an hour for working a weekday as well as a weekend rather than getting $13 an hour during the week and double time on Sundays. Oh don't forget the lure of DTA on top of that as well.
As for loyalty, well the company doesn't want any loyalty from MAM casuals, this is exactly why they employ an outside labour hire company (ie. MAM) to do the work. What it comes down to is the mighty buck, loyalty doesn't even enter the equation.
No disrespect intended to MAM casuals, I'm just telling it how it is
SG
Penalty rates as a MAM casual just simply don't exist. I mean seriously your hourly rate is not exactly peanuts now is it?
Frankly, I think you're in a better position being with MAM getting (what is it now??) $27 an hour for working a weekday as well as a weekend rather than getting $13 an hour during the week and double time on Sundays. Oh don't forget the lure of DTA on top of that as well.
As for loyalty, well the company doesn't want any loyalty from MAM casuals, this is exactly why they employ an outside labour hire company (ie. MAM) to do the work. What it comes down to is the mighty buck, loyalty doesn't even enter the equation.
No disrespect intended to MAM casuals, I'm just telling it how it is
SG
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andie74,
my concerns about john howards efforts to casualise the workforce are that they inarguably undermine the living [and life] standards of a huge proportion of the workforce.
I understand business requires flexibity to manage the peaks and troughs of their labour needs and this is how the concept has largely been "sold" to the community.
The sad reallity is that business is using it as a tool to reduce costs by hiring vast numbers under these arrangements. Qantas/Dixon being a prime example.
Casual work suits you which is great but I guarrantee there is a large proportion of MAM casuals [and their families] who would kill for the stability provided by full time work.
Casualisation, IR changes and howard's march towards the Americanisation of Australia threaten to create a working poor such as this country has NEVER seen.
To what end?
So that business can increase their already record profits.
A sobering reality for those who don't know...........
The minimum wage in the US is roughly $5.80 USD an hour.
This rate explains why families at the bottom have to work two and three jobs in that country just to survive. Not to get ahead remember because they never can, but JUST TO SURVIVE.
Qantas has had and arguably continues to have longhaul crew staying in the lowest socio-economic area it can get away with in LA now and as crew we ride the local buses with the people who are victims of this social structure.
It is not pretty society and casualisation on the scale that Australia [and qantas] have implemented is a march down that path.........................
my concerns about john howards efforts to casualise the workforce are that they inarguably undermine the living [and life] standards of a huge proportion of the workforce.
I understand business requires flexibity to manage the peaks and troughs of their labour needs and this is how the concept has largely been "sold" to the community.
The sad reallity is that business is using it as a tool to reduce costs by hiring vast numbers under these arrangements. Qantas/Dixon being a prime example.
Casual work suits you which is great but I guarrantee there is a large proportion of MAM casuals [and their families] who would kill for the stability provided by full time work.
Casualisation, IR changes and howard's march towards the Americanisation of Australia threaten to create a working poor such as this country has NEVER seen.
To what end?
So that business can increase their already record profits.
A sobering reality for those who don't know...........
The minimum wage in the US is roughly $5.80 USD an hour.
This rate explains why families at the bottom have to work two and three jobs in that country just to survive. Not to get ahead remember because they never can, but JUST TO SURVIVE.
Qantas has had and arguably continues to have longhaul crew staying in the lowest socio-economic area it can get away with in LA now and as crew we ride the local buses with the people who are victims of this social structure.
It is not pretty society and casualisation on the scale that Australia [and qantas] have implemented is a march down that path.........................
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andie74,
I appreciate your comments. You are very lucky to have gotten in with the attitude that it's not something you want to do forever. You were obviously fully aware when you signed the MAM contract, what the conditions of pay were etc re penalty rates etc, so that one comes back on you, but like what has previously been said, MAM casuals don't exactly get paid ends meat. Can i ask if you get paid the same in your previousl casual positions, why did you choose to become a F/A and be a way from home on trips etc, working public holidays, xmas, new years (which is all fully part of the job etc)? There are people dying to get in and would literally do anything to become a F/A, even if it is a casual position. I've worked with someone that applied and got knocked back 32 times before they actually got the position, so this is a job that people dream to have and make a career out of. A flying position is like no other position on the ground, you can't compare it and even though management have made some absolutey stupid positions, a lot of people do have loyalty to the company and a passion and take pride in their job and who they work for etc. So all in all, to me anyway, it is a big deal.
Being casual does have it's benefits etc and downsides as does being full time, but as previously said, there are A LOT of casuals who are seriously hanging out to get full time, hopefully it happens soon, i would just hate to see the competition for the amount of positions offered!
Good luck with whatever direction you eventually choose.
Oz
I appreciate your comments. You are very lucky to have gotten in with the attitude that it's not something you want to do forever. You were obviously fully aware when you signed the MAM contract, what the conditions of pay were etc re penalty rates etc, so that one comes back on you, but like what has previously been said, MAM casuals don't exactly get paid ends meat. Can i ask if you get paid the same in your previousl casual positions, why did you choose to become a F/A and be a way from home on trips etc, working public holidays, xmas, new years (which is all fully part of the job etc)? There are people dying to get in and would literally do anything to become a F/A, even if it is a casual position. I've worked with someone that applied and got knocked back 32 times before they actually got the position, so this is a job that people dream to have and make a career out of. A flying position is like no other position on the ground, you can't compare it and even though management have made some absolutey stupid positions, a lot of people do have loyalty to the company and a passion and take pride in their job and who they work for etc. So all in all, to me anyway, it is a big deal.
Being casual does have it's benefits etc and downsides as does being full time, but as previously said, there are A LOT of casuals who are seriously hanging out to get full time, hopefully it happens soon, i would just hate to see the competition for the amount of positions offered!
Good luck with whatever direction you eventually choose.
Oz
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Those Days are over
The days when flying offered a career are well and truly over.
Particularly as far as QF is concerned.
The technology changes mean you will fly about 5 years before you are burnt out both physically and emotionally.
Doing 20 + hours of duty will see to that.
Airlines will be glorified bus services(if they aren't already)
If America is anything to go by service will be minimal at best.
Safety will suffer as well as maintenance is exported to countries where manpower is less expensive and less competent.
Pax expectations are increasing just when they are paying less in real terms for their transport and airlines are definitely offering less.
The advertising and spin are just thinly veiled disguises for what is in reality a Greyhound bus service at altitude.
Nothing lasts forever..I certainly think I saw the best of it.
Particularly as far as QF is concerned.
The technology changes mean you will fly about 5 years before you are burnt out both physically and emotionally.
Doing 20 + hours of duty will see to that.
Airlines will be glorified bus services(if they aren't already)
If America is anything to go by service will be minimal at best.
Safety will suffer as well as maintenance is exported to countries where manpower is less expensive and less competent.
Pax expectations are increasing just when they are paying less in real terms for their transport and airlines are definitely offering less.
The advertising and spin are just thinly veiled disguises for what is in reality a Greyhound bus service at altitude.
Nothing lasts forever..I certainly think I saw the best of it.
Last edited by captainrats; 29th Oct 2005 at 09:19.
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Why do companies have casuals.
To meet the demands when loads are heavey and not have them sitting around getting paid when times are slow.
Thats the economical side,but these days how many jobs you see where its permanent casual for 6 or so months with maybe full time after that.
You may get someone who is never there ,doesnt work enough ,doesnt get on with anyone etc etc.
Now hire him fulltime from the start and then try and sack them------unfair dismisal--discrimination etc etc
Lot easier to start with casuals and if they meet the grade move them onto full time when a position becomes available..Less problems.
But why take a job then whinge about it ,unless the dole office made you do it.
To meet the demands when loads are heavey and not have them sitting around getting paid when times are slow.
Thats the economical side,but these days how many jobs you see where its permanent casual for 6 or so months with maybe full time after that.
You may get someone who is never there ,doesnt work enough ,doesnt get on with anyone etc etc.
Now hire him fulltime from the start and then try and sack them------unfair dismisal--discrimination etc etc
Lot easier to start with casuals and if they meet the grade move them onto full time when a position becomes available..Less problems.
But why take a job then whinge about it ,unless the dole office made you do it.
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hmmm......hopefully people expressing an opinion and their own feelings & views on issues that affect their life & livelyhood arent considered to be whingers????
ozcabincrew,
sorry if this is a bit long!!! but i want to try and answer your questions!
i decided to do this job bcos i had worked for a considerable time in my last job and wanted a change of scenery, i felt i was getting 'stale' doing the same thing for a bit too long- money isnt the only reason you leave a job and its not why i left. i for one am certainly not complaining about the job- i enjoy it, and i enjoy the people too. i was agreeing with what had already been mentioned, that it would certainly be cheaper to have us casuals. yes i did accept the job knowing the conditions (well most of them as some things appear to have snuck in over a period of time!) ..... I was just stating that bcos we dont get paid public hol rates, i personally dont work them (when given the choice) - thats all. and its not like there are hundreds of public hols in a year so its not really that big a deal. i didnt say that the pay was bad, i said it isnt fantastic, bcos i've had other jobs that paid the same. how many people in any industry would really be happy to work xmas day, boxing day & new years day for the same rate they get every other day??
i wholeheartedly agree with any statements made about 'A LOT of casuals who are seriously hanging out to get full time' - some of the people youre talking about are very good friends of mine. i was only speaking for myself. i can assure you i dont need reminding of how much it means to others & i know how frustrating it is. but like you yourself stated, we accepted a casual job and the conditions- and i know that i was told from the very beginning that there would be 'NO opportunity for full time work'-it was said at least twice throughout the recruitment process to me- and yeah that does suck for lots of reasons (ie casualisation of the workforce in general and all the issues that speedbirdhouse just mentioned) but..... that is what was being offered, Casual work. and dont forget, that when people such as myself applied for positions, we certainly had absolutely no idea of all the politics going on behind the scenes that are discussed in this forum.
so i havent ever let myself get caught up in the negativity of the full time work discussions bcos I made the decision to go ahead and accept this job knowing that it is casual. so by the same token if i was going to start feeling negative about wanting full time work then i'd rather just leave and find full time work elsewhere. full time work would be great, but its simply not available here- instead in the last 6 months i decided to go back to study again bcos i too eventually want full time work SOMEWHERE! im just making the best of the situation- like alot of us are.
im sure that lots of F/A's such as yourself do still have strong loyalties, and thats great- but surely there must be a reason you have this loyalty???? such as many years of good working conditions, high morale, just lots of memories of 'good times' and from what i read in this forum, a lot of F/A's are saying that those times are gone now? - i hear the more senior F/A's talk about this sort of thing all the time. i was simply saying that for many other people, that kind of loyalty doesnt have any opportunity to develop - and maybe thats true of lots of companies in todays workforce - not just Qantas. people will still go to work, and do a good honest days work for the company, but they simply wont have that same loyalty that people such as yourself have. it doesnt seem like a good way to run a workforce?? but its what Qantas and many others have chosen.
one thing i have to disagree with though (and i hope ive understood what you were saying- if not then disregard the following and apologies!!) is when you say that 'A flying position is like no other position on the ground, you can't compare it' - i agree if its all you've ever wanted to do and you finally get in its obviously going to be the best job in the world, but there are lots of other great jobs around 'on the ground' that people love just as much as you and other F/A's may love your job. my brother is a singer/musician who works 3 nites a week doing what he loves most in the world and also runs his own recording studio a couple of days a week. he works for himself, has lots of freedom & flexibility, makes great money and is passionate about it. so to him, his job is also the best.
speedbirdhouse- just for the record, personally i dont agree with casualising the workforce either, or the changes that john howard wants to make- i agree that long term it undermines the standard of living. if i wanted to get a mortgage right now with this job i probably wouldnt get one- and i know thats a big issue for lots of casuals. which is why im back studying part-time so that at some point i will have a secure job to raise a family on and build a life on.
ozcabincrew,
sorry if this is a bit long!!! but i want to try and answer your questions!
i decided to do this job bcos i had worked for a considerable time in my last job and wanted a change of scenery, i felt i was getting 'stale' doing the same thing for a bit too long- money isnt the only reason you leave a job and its not why i left. i for one am certainly not complaining about the job- i enjoy it, and i enjoy the people too. i was agreeing with what had already been mentioned, that it would certainly be cheaper to have us casuals. yes i did accept the job knowing the conditions (well most of them as some things appear to have snuck in over a period of time!) ..... I was just stating that bcos we dont get paid public hol rates, i personally dont work them (when given the choice) - thats all. and its not like there are hundreds of public hols in a year so its not really that big a deal. i didnt say that the pay was bad, i said it isnt fantastic, bcos i've had other jobs that paid the same. how many people in any industry would really be happy to work xmas day, boxing day & new years day for the same rate they get every other day??
i wholeheartedly agree with any statements made about 'A LOT of casuals who are seriously hanging out to get full time' - some of the people youre talking about are very good friends of mine. i was only speaking for myself. i can assure you i dont need reminding of how much it means to others & i know how frustrating it is. but like you yourself stated, we accepted a casual job and the conditions- and i know that i was told from the very beginning that there would be 'NO opportunity for full time work'-it was said at least twice throughout the recruitment process to me- and yeah that does suck for lots of reasons (ie casualisation of the workforce in general and all the issues that speedbirdhouse just mentioned) but..... that is what was being offered, Casual work. and dont forget, that when people such as myself applied for positions, we certainly had absolutely no idea of all the politics going on behind the scenes that are discussed in this forum.
so i havent ever let myself get caught up in the negativity of the full time work discussions bcos I made the decision to go ahead and accept this job knowing that it is casual. so by the same token if i was going to start feeling negative about wanting full time work then i'd rather just leave and find full time work elsewhere. full time work would be great, but its simply not available here- instead in the last 6 months i decided to go back to study again bcos i too eventually want full time work SOMEWHERE! im just making the best of the situation- like alot of us are.
im sure that lots of F/A's such as yourself do still have strong loyalties, and thats great- but surely there must be a reason you have this loyalty???? such as many years of good working conditions, high morale, just lots of memories of 'good times' and from what i read in this forum, a lot of F/A's are saying that those times are gone now? - i hear the more senior F/A's talk about this sort of thing all the time. i was simply saying that for many other people, that kind of loyalty doesnt have any opportunity to develop - and maybe thats true of lots of companies in todays workforce - not just Qantas. people will still go to work, and do a good honest days work for the company, but they simply wont have that same loyalty that people such as yourself have. it doesnt seem like a good way to run a workforce?? but its what Qantas and many others have chosen.
one thing i have to disagree with though (and i hope ive understood what you were saying- if not then disregard the following and apologies!!) is when you say that 'A flying position is like no other position on the ground, you can't compare it' - i agree if its all you've ever wanted to do and you finally get in its obviously going to be the best job in the world, but there are lots of other great jobs around 'on the ground' that people love just as much as you and other F/A's may love your job. my brother is a singer/musician who works 3 nites a week doing what he loves most in the world and also runs his own recording studio a couple of days a week. he works for himself, has lots of freedom & flexibility, makes great money and is passionate about it. so to him, his job is also the best.
speedbirdhouse- just for the record, personally i dont agree with casualising the workforce either, or the changes that john howard wants to make- i agree that long term it undermines the standard of living. if i wanted to get a mortgage right now with this job i probably wouldnt get one- and i know thats a big issue for lots of casuals. which is why im back studying part-time so that at some point i will have a secure job to raise a family on and build a life on.