QF LHR Base (merged)
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Thanks for the positive feedback Barrheadboy. If only our leaders (using the term very loosely) would realise that we do in fact work hard onboard the aircraft, and spend most of our time fixing problems caused by lack of investment. Of course we should be spending the time that takes to be out in the cabin giving more fantastic service. Unfortunately the management only care about their bonus. What was is Margaret Jackson (chairperson) said? Oh yes I remember, she said "We should spend less time looking after the customers and employees and more time looking after the shareholders"
Says it all really doesn't it?
Anway I am one of the scabs working at the LHR base. I didn't want to come and was very outspoken against the base. But at the end of the day if I stay at home in Oz my flying will be rubbish now London trips have gone. Plus I had some family issues which required me to be in the UK and I thought it would be a good opportunity to travel around Europe while I still have staff travel.
When I return home in two years I can only imagine the trips will be unbearable so can't see myself staying around very long.
So how is the base going?
I heard 71 crew are wanting to return to Oz already. I don't believe that figure, I think its more like 17 crew. We have been told we have to stay for the full 2yr contract otherwise we don't have a job to go home to. There is a rumour going around that this is not legal and we can go home if we want to at anytime. I need to get more information on this but heaps of people are saying its true.
Operations seem very nice, much better than Sydney ops who only refer to you by number. Here they know your name and speak to you like an adult.
Management seem OK although wouldn't trust anyone at management level within QF.
Only on 2nd roster but been happy so far. Averaging around 160hr over two months, thats less than my Oz roster. Lots of days off and not been used on my A days yet. Of course rosters will get busier when Hong Kong trips start next bid period.
Flying has been very hard. This is because many time I have been the only crew member in economy with any experience. Its disgraceful that QF saved more money by not training new crew properly.
The other day we took off out of London and I walked into the galley, after handing out headsets etc.. to find all the new crew looking at their procedures manual on how to set up a bar cart!!! Nightmare! Services have been taking hours longer because people aren't up to speed.
QF should have had them flying with mentors for the first few months. Right now I feel like I'm an unpaid trainer and its pissing me off big time.
Dixon was up here a few weeks ago. All crew were invited to go and meet him but as I wish he were dead, I couldn't force myself to go. He told a group of crew that the base would be closed if it didn't save enough money. There he goes again being all positive.
It amazes me that they have got so many crew offside by the opening of the base all for a saving of $18m per year. Then they spend millions sending us on stupid 'Breathrough' and 'Straight talk' corses that are supposed to make us feel all warm and gooey about the company.
Good on jetlagger for being so passionate about the retension of out terms and conditions. We are supposed to be an Australian icon, takes the piss when Qantas are hiring English crew who have never even VISITED Australia.
If only more crew were like him/her they would have never got this base open in the first place.
Says it all really doesn't it?
Anway I am one of the scabs working at the LHR base. I didn't want to come and was very outspoken against the base. But at the end of the day if I stay at home in Oz my flying will be rubbish now London trips have gone. Plus I had some family issues which required me to be in the UK and I thought it would be a good opportunity to travel around Europe while I still have staff travel.
When I return home in two years I can only imagine the trips will be unbearable so can't see myself staying around very long.
So how is the base going?
I heard 71 crew are wanting to return to Oz already. I don't believe that figure, I think its more like 17 crew. We have been told we have to stay for the full 2yr contract otherwise we don't have a job to go home to. There is a rumour going around that this is not legal and we can go home if we want to at anytime. I need to get more information on this but heaps of people are saying its true.
Operations seem very nice, much better than Sydney ops who only refer to you by number. Here they know your name and speak to you like an adult.
Management seem OK although wouldn't trust anyone at management level within QF.
Only on 2nd roster but been happy so far. Averaging around 160hr over two months, thats less than my Oz roster. Lots of days off and not been used on my A days yet. Of course rosters will get busier when Hong Kong trips start next bid period.
Flying has been very hard. This is because many time I have been the only crew member in economy with any experience. Its disgraceful that QF saved more money by not training new crew properly.
The other day we took off out of London and I walked into the galley, after handing out headsets etc.. to find all the new crew looking at their procedures manual on how to set up a bar cart!!! Nightmare! Services have been taking hours longer because people aren't up to speed.
QF should have had them flying with mentors for the first few months. Right now I feel like I'm an unpaid trainer and its pissing me off big time.
Dixon was up here a few weeks ago. All crew were invited to go and meet him but as I wish he were dead, I couldn't force myself to go. He told a group of crew that the base would be closed if it didn't save enough money. There he goes again being all positive.
It amazes me that they have got so many crew offside by the opening of the base all for a saving of $18m per year. Then they spend millions sending us on stupid 'Breathrough' and 'Straight talk' corses that are supposed to make us feel all warm and gooey about the company.
Good on jetlagger for being so passionate about the retension of out terms and conditions. We are supposed to be an Australian icon, takes the piss when Qantas are hiring English crew who have never even VISITED Australia.
If only more crew were like him/her they would have never got this base open in the first place.
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r3please
that would not be the same margaret jackson that had the freebie in the inflight magazine regarding her husbands ski resort in japan it would not be the packer group that publishes the magazine would it or am i being cynical maybe next time she is freeloading in 1st class you could dish out the service to her that she expects you to do to the paying customers if that is their attitude to customers that keep them in highly paid jobs no wonder they treat their employees the way they do if they are that worried about the share holders they should be creating a better culture among the employees when that happens the business improves and so do, s the share price i think they are in it for short time gain for them selves and stuff the airline as they will be long gone before the true picture emerges . good luck might see you on a flight one day
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Exactly right Barrheadboy,
Look after the employees, they will look after the customers, the customers will look after the company.
By the way, Dixons email is [email protected]
I have it on good authority that he does read his own email.
Look after the employees, they will look after the customers, the customers will look after the company.
By the way, Dixons email is [email protected]
I have it on good authority that he does read his own email.
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Definition?
Arataki
What is your definition of professional?
Define "generous"wages.
Like most passengers you have no idea what crew do.Nor do you understand how CC juggle their lives around their work(not a complaint,,a fact.)
How did you find out about PPrune?
Most if not all LHR base are young and single with no responsibilities.As with anything that is new there is a particular excitement.Fly on the same leg in a years time and gauge the enthusiasm.The first casualty of working for QF is your enthusiasm...the mangement suck it out of you.
Flying is fast becoming a young single persons job..Stay 5 years get burnt out and leave.
Todays society is critical of older people..just as you have been.I would guess that you are younger than 35.As you age and your priorities change remember your own words they may come back to haunt you.
American companies are slowly realizing that they made a mistake by retrenching their older more experienced employees.They have the answers.their absenteeism is lower and they are more stable than their younger counterparts.
What you are seeing is the transition of the airline industry from hospitality to transport....a bus service.Then,I guess, your criticisms will take on a different complexion.
Welcome to PPrune.
What is your definition of professional?
Define "generous"wages.
Like most passengers you have no idea what crew do.Nor do you understand how CC juggle their lives around their work(not a complaint,,a fact.)
How did you find out about PPrune?
Most if not all LHR base are young and single with no responsibilities.As with anything that is new there is a particular excitement.Fly on the same leg in a years time and gauge the enthusiasm.The first casualty of working for QF is your enthusiasm...the mangement suck it out of you.
Flying is fast becoming a young single persons job..Stay 5 years get burnt out and leave.
Todays society is critical of older people..just as you have been.I would guess that you are younger than 35.As you age and your priorities change remember your own words they may come back to haunt you.
American companies are slowly realizing that they made a mistake by retrenching their older more experienced employees.They have the answers.their absenteeism is lower and they are more stable than their younger counterparts.
What you are seeing is the transition of the airline industry from hospitality to transport....a bus service.Then,I guess, your criticisms will take on a different complexion.
Welcome to PPrune.
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What a sad state of affairs this thread has got to!
Everybody is just bitching and yelling at each other.
True to form, cabin crew are whining about something that has already happened. Something that is too late to change.
There is not one suggestion about how to fix it.
And why? Because long haul cabin crew are now totally unrepresented!
The long haul FAAA are now the laughing stock of QF management and are now at a point where QF won't negotiate with them - they just go ahead with the changes they want!
The word the CEO used recently to describe the FAAA was "unforgivable". That means he and his management team will not forgive the FAAA for what they did (threat of strike action).
Read that as 'why bother consulting with them!
I suggest someone needs to put a rocket up the FAAA before nothing is left.
BTW: I am not a member of the FAAA as I refuse to subsidise their childish, unprofessional behaviour. And when someone suggests that I may need them one day for support representation, I suggest walking in to a disciplinary with an FAAA official will get you sacked quicker than walking in with a camel suit on!
Everybody is just bitching and yelling at each other.
True to form, cabin crew are whining about something that has already happened. Something that is too late to change.
There is not one suggestion about how to fix it.
And why? Because long haul cabin crew are now totally unrepresented!
The long haul FAAA are now the laughing stock of QF management and are now at a point where QF won't negotiate with them - they just go ahead with the changes they want!
The word the CEO used recently to describe the FAAA was "unforgivable". That means he and his management team will not forgive the FAAA for what they did (threat of strike action).
Read that as 'why bother consulting with them!
I suggest someone needs to put a rocket up the FAAA before nothing is left.
BTW: I am not a member of the FAAA as I refuse to subsidise their childish, unprofessional behaviour. And when someone suggests that I may need them one day for support representation, I suggest walking in to a disciplinary with an FAAA official will get you sacked quicker than walking in with a camel suit on!
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Blame Game
QFCSM
Don't blame the current people running the FAAA ...they are just trying to clean up the mess left by the 3 blind mice.
Talking about solutions what would you have done to achieve an equitable outcome...I wait with bated breath.
Don't blame the current people running the FAAA ...they are just trying to clean up the mess left by the 3 blind mice.
Talking about solutions what would you have done to achieve an equitable outcome...I wait with bated breath.
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Perhaps it's time to put a little perspective on the real situation.
I came over in the first wave, and as many of you will probably recall I started in Qantas as a fixed term employee (one of the 11 month bods) in long haul.
Whilst I agree that opening overseas's bases isn't ideal for the flying we like to do out of Australia, the fact is its well and truly happened. The flying is never going to be the same as it was when Qantas was owned by the Government and the good old days are well and truly gone. That's reality and it seems a bit pointless to belly ache over it.
Yes, there have been some initial teething problems - but that's be expected. I remember my first few flights when I started and there were teething problems then as well! Fortunately, I had colleagues who were happy to point me in the right direction and were patient enough to put up with endless questions.
The local recruits are very enthusiastic and many of them have flying experience with other airlines, so they're not completely green.
As for comments that passengers have been unhappy with the service and that the cabins have been left in a mess, well I can only speak of my experiences and that hasn't been the case at all. Each flight, passengers have commented that the crew are particularly friendly and that they enjoyed the flight.
One particular VIP asked me what on earth I was doing up in first class. When I queried what he meant by that (I presumed he didn't think I was up to scratch), he said he thought that first class was reserved for the old grumpy bums rather than the younger friendly ones who seem happy to be at work and it was a refreshing change!
The only problems I've encountered have been the lack of handover forms being completed by Australian based crew (I'm yet to get on board and find one completed!), the snide little comments made by people who ought to know better (some CSM's should lead by example), and childish game playing like tying up the ends of the safety demo equipment and hiding equipment.
It wouldn't hurt to bear in mind that the crew at the LHR base are making the best of an unavoidable situation.
I came over in the first wave, and as many of you will probably recall I started in Qantas as a fixed term employee (one of the 11 month bods) in long haul.
Whilst I agree that opening overseas's bases isn't ideal for the flying we like to do out of Australia, the fact is its well and truly happened. The flying is never going to be the same as it was when Qantas was owned by the Government and the good old days are well and truly gone. That's reality and it seems a bit pointless to belly ache over it.
Yes, there have been some initial teething problems - but that's be expected. I remember my first few flights when I started and there were teething problems then as well! Fortunately, I had colleagues who were happy to point me in the right direction and were patient enough to put up with endless questions.
The local recruits are very enthusiastic and many of them have flying experience with other airlines, so they're not completely green.
As for comments that passengers have been unhappy with the service and that the cabins have been left in a mess, well I can only speak of my experiences and that hasn't been the case at all. Each flight, passengers have commented that the crew are particularly friendly and that they enjoyed the flight.
One particular VIP asked me what on earth I was doing up in first class. When I queried what he meant by that (I presumed he didn't think I was up to scratch), he said he thought that first class was reserved for the old grumpy bums rather than the younger friendly ones who seem happy to be at work and it was a refreshing change!
The only problems I've encountered have been the lack of handover forms being completed by Australian based crew (I'm yet to get on board and find one completed!), the snide little comments made by people who ought to know better (some CSM's should lead by example), and childish game playing like tying up the ends of the safety demo equipment and hiding equipment.
It wouldn't hurt to bear in mind that the crew at the LHR base are making the best of an unavoidable situation.
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Grumpy Old Bums?
OzSkipper I think you are telling Porkies.The crew generally working on any flight to LHR and in particular P/C are the youngest and newest in the Company.The grumpy old bums usually do short trips.Spurious anecdotes undermine the general thrust of your post.
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So here we have someone that has been with the company 5 minutes working in the premium cabins, just goes to show how much Qantas care for the customer. Why the waiting period for Australian based crew to apply for BFirst positions?
On another note are long haul that seriously overstaffed that leave without pay is necessary again?
On another note are long haul that seriously overstaffed that leave without pay is necessary again?
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Overstaffed
QFRegional
You ask a very good question.If you crunch the numbers you will find that QF Longhaul are indeed overstaffed.With Howard gaining control over both houses in June you may find that QF will make some selective retrenchments in the new financial year.No packages just retrenchments.These people will then be replaced with contractors when manpower requirements increase.These retrenchments will not be" last on first off" but rather based on performance and the assessed behaviour gleaned from the fireside chats.
You ask a very good question.If you crunch the numbers you will find that QF Longhaul are indeed overstaffed.With Howard gaining control over both houses in June you may find that QF will make some selective retrenchments in the new financial year.No packages just retrenchments.These people will then be replaced with contractors when manpower requirements increase.These retrenchments will not be" last on first off" but rather based on performance and the assessed behaviour gleaned from the fireside chats.
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QFRegional - QF's excuse is that you need to have experience before working in the 1st class cabin. HOWEVER because London crew are cheaper the company doesn't give a **** so they put them in 1st anyway. Thats why they have sherpas up in London now working on every flight out of London.
The sherpas are on a 33 day trip, must be costing a fortune.
And yes, now the base has opened in London they have a huge excess of crew in Australia. They are 'managing' this by offering leave without pay and part time positions. If only everyone could see through this and not take these 'offers' the company would be paying out millions for crew sitting at home with no work for them.
The sherpas are on a 33 day trip, must be costing a fortune.
And yes, now the base has opened in London they have a huge excess of crew in Australia. They are 'managing' this by offering leave without pay and part time positions. If only everyone could see through this and not take these 'offers' the company would be paying out millions for crew sitting at home with no work for them.
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Lesley's Nephew
Words of wisdom from Lesley's(Grant)favourite nephew.Its early days my friend lets hear what you have to say in a year's time.
Last edited by surfside6; 21st Apr 2005 at 05:41.
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Most of the more senior people I know couldn't give a rats about going to London. Some of them have stated how they have been there 100 times in their first few years, and the newer shorter trips suit them more after years of doing longer trips. Just have a look at the different people going back to Singapore and Bangkok as mentioned above. A more proportionate amount of senior people on most crews compared to a few months ago.
Perhaps people should consider who the union really represents. Is it the more junior workers, or the more highly senior people who always seem less affected by these changes. To say the union was forced into this whole concept is a load of crap. They accepted it and conned the membership into voting for it. Do something constructive with your anger and let them know as well.
What is the latest with New York now? What is the view of the union on this?
Perhaps people should consider who the union really represents. Is it the more junior workers, or the more highly senior people who always seem less affected by these changes. To say the union was forced into this whole concept is a load of crap. They accepted it and conned the membership into voting for it. Do something constructive with your anger and let them know as well.
What is the latest with New York now? What is the view of the union on this?
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White Pointer?
Like most people you are critical but offer no alternatives...what do you want?...allocated rosters?squirrell caging?No union is able to represent ALL interests but rather attempt to satisfy the common interests.Stop carping and come up with some alternatives!Better still....stand for election.
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Interesting to see that we have a brand new poster attempting to divide support for the longhaul FAAA by spreading lies, spin and misinformation.
They are obviously not a paid up member. If they were a simple phone call would be all that was needed to answer their question.
I wonder what their agenda is...................?
They are obviously not a paid up member. If they were a simple phone call would be all that was needed to answer their question.
I wonder what their agenda is...................?
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DEFCON4 writes
His words not mine. Whilst this is an anonymous forum I believe that my previous postings over the last few years on here have established some level of credibility. I don't engage in porkies or personal attacks, so as such I stand by my previous post.
QFREGIONAL writes
I agree I've only been in the company for 5 minutes - how this affects the customers in the premium cabin however, I fail to see? Unless your suggesting that I'm not fit to work up there?
I'm not in inexperienced in the employment world, I'm fully trained in Qantas's service standards and emergency procedures (I'm yet to get less than 100% on my exams) and whilst I occasionally forget a service signature here & there, I'd like to think I'm a good operator both in the cabin & galley. I'll freely admit I'm not perfect and never will be, but I don't cut corners and I make an effort to get it right.
From what I recall, there was no waiting period for BFirst when it was initially introduced (anyone could apply regardless of length of service - however, I'm open to correction on this point). In any event, its pretty obvious why there was no waiting period to apply for BFirst in London - Qantas didn't have enough experienced BFirst operators going over. Again, I reiterate my previous point that you might as well make the best of any given situation rather than bitching about it.
Anyway, I guess my point was (and still is) its not all doom and gloom over here.
OzSkipper I think you are telling Porkies.The crew generally working on any flight to LHR and in particular P/C are the youngest and newest in the Company.The grumpy old bums usually do short trips.Spurious anecdotes undermine the general thrust of your post.
QFREGIONAL writes
So here we have someone that has been with the company 5 minutes working in the premium cabins, just goes to show how much Qantas care for the customer. Why the waiting period for Australian based crew to apply for BFirst positions?
I'm not in inexperienced in the employment world, I'm fully trained in Qantas's service standards and emergency procedures (I'm yet to get less than 100% on my exams) and whilst I occasionally forget a service signature here & there, I'd like to think I'm a good operator both in the cabin & galley. I'll freely admit I'm not perfect and never will be, but I don't cut corners and I make an effort to get it right.
From what I recall, there was no waiting period for BFirst when it was initially introduced (anyone could apply regardless of length of service - however, I'm open to correction on this point). In any event, its pretty obvious why there was no waiting period to apply for BFirst in London - Qantas didn't have enough experienced BFirst operators going over. Again, I reiterate my previous point that you might as well make the best of any given situation rather than bitching about it.
Anyway, I guess my point was (and still is) its not all doom and gloom over here.
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Wow - lots of anti-Q sentiment here!
All here who've had enough of the Roo: I reckon the best strategy would be to vote with your feet and resign. I mean the company treats you pretty badly! Especially when you compare the job to other gigs around town (like Virgin Blue (domestically), where everyone's so darn happy!).
Show the company you've had enough. By resigning, not only will you kick them in the guts, but you'd probably be able to make a hell of a lot more money with your skill set elsewhere (surely!).
It's time to stand firm, and hand in that letter of resignation (or else endure the unendurable)!
ED
All here who've had enough of the Roo: I reckon the best strategy would be to vote with your feet and resign. I mean the company treats you pretty badly! Especially when you compare the job to other gigs around town (like Virgin Blue (domestically), where everyone's so darn happy!).
Show the company you've had enough. By resigning, not only will you kick them in the guts, but you'd probably be able to make a hell of a lot more money with your skill set elsewhere (surely!).
It's time to stand firm, and hand in that letter of resignation (or else endure the unendurable)!
ED