BA cabin crew strike ballot!

[Rimmer]

For my 10p worth i think a review of CC pay and conditions is long overdue and i hope Willy impliments it,sickness is too high ( we work with pax,cc,pilots,loaders,dispatchers etc and do 12 hour night shifts in the rain and snow without having 22 days a year off ) and the expenses are too high - to counter that though the basic pay for new contract CC is too low and hence a review long overdue.

[BYMONEK]

ElNino

" The reasons for this are self evident"

Please explain? They aren't self evident to me other than the fact B.A pilots should seriously think about joining BASSA/CC89 IF Cabin Crew are on such a good deal.

Stop bitching and get on with flying the plane even if your are 19yrs old,graduated from oxford flying school with 200 hours and consider your job far more important than a CSD's who may have 35 years behind him/her.

The second in command may well have to wrestle with the controls and safely land the plane from a 31,000ft terror dive saving all on board after the Captain collapses but let's be honest.....it doesn't exactly happen often,does it?

[wiggy]

BYMONEK

The reasons should be self evident - accountability, responsibility, and also the little phrase, "Chain of Command", a very unpopular phrase in these inclusive days but still laid down in the Air Navigation Order ( and that's a Law of the Land, not a Union agreement) and available for closer examination in Crew Orders!

By your logic the 35 year CSD should also earn more than the new CEO - you don't mean that...do you?

[Volmet South]

BYMONEK

The second in command may well have to wrestle with the controls and safely land the plane from a 31,000ft terror dive saving all on board after the Captain collapses but let's be honest.....it doesn't exactly happen often,does it?

thankfully it is as rare as the occasions where a CC member saves the day by firefighting in the rear khazi If the captain were to suffer a heart attack, the FO would at least be at their post and earning their pay when it happened.

The rest of your post is beneath contempt.

[OzzieO]

You know having read some of the posts on this subject I have to say I nearly wet myself laughing.

To the people making comments that are clearly anti-BA cabin crew grow up. Not sure what your agenda is here but its boring and repetitive.

To the BA cabin crew getting so worked up about these childish boring comments stop taking the bait!!!

[NigelsFriend]

Quote OzzyO: To the BA cabin crew getting so worked up about these childish boring comments stop taking the bait!!!

Yes I agree! As BA crew i am feed up just reading this rubbish! Its getting MEGA boring now !!!

[itsinthebag]

Please, for the LOVE OF GOD will you kids stop fighting and play nicely - just wait till your father gets home. There'll be tears before bedtime if everyone doesnt GROW UP pretty damn fast!!!

[Rimmer]

Well what to say,new starter cabin crew get paid C**P and deserve better T+Cs but anyone taking 23 days sick a year deserves a medical.

As for CSDs i thought BA would have the common sense to remove that grade ASAP as its something that goes back to flying boats,paying someone in excess of £68K to supervise tea and coffee is plain stupid!

[OzzieO]

Remember what I said BA folks.........DON'T TAKE THE BAIT!!!!

[BYMONEK]

UMM......Bit of a touchy subject this one eh?

Wiggy

No,that will be YOUR logic.I refered to a junior F/O.No mention of Senior F/O or even a Captain,let alone your new CEO so don't go round putting words into my mouth.Also,as those of you in B.A are well aware,chain of command is no reflextion of pay(regardless of it being 'law of the land').That's why I recommended you all join BASSA. The contributions you guys pay into BALPA are laughable for the service you get in return.

Volmet South

I know for a fact that 4 years ago, a friend of mine, a senior Captain on 744 showed me his total earnings fo the year.It was £154,000. He had been with BA for 32 years.Now, let's take our 35yr old CSD again. Would a figure of £50-60,000 p/a be unreasonable. Quite rightly the Captain gets the pay but as for a brand new cadet in his first year....sorry,the CSD gets it every time for me.......regardless if he's sat on his arse or fighting fires down the back.

You know,if you guys really do resent it this much you should hang up those hats and start pushing some trollies down the back......it's quite an easy job for all the money you know

[wiggy]

BYMONEK
Not sure what your point is about the junior F/O vs SFO or Capt, they are still "senior" to the 35 year CSD
You seem to be under the impression the the 200 hr guy does s*d all. Wrong, in the worse case he will still carry the can along with the Captain in the event of an incident or worse still accident - you may recall the infamous Penta arrival at LHR many years ago - sure the Captain lost his "rank", but the new two ringer in the Right Hand seat was also disciplined for failing to monior/intervene when things went awry...and what do you think happened to the CSD?

As for BALPA and BASSA, can't argue with you on that point.

Regards.

[keeperboy]

I reckon the topic is getting a bit off the point now.

I am LHR BA crew (on the new contract) and I agree, some of the Cabin Crew earn ridiculous money. Many of my mates at other airlines say the same about my money!

HOWEVER. Lets say your salary as an SFO is £85,000.00. Your pay and conditions are all fixed within your contract of employment. Then, 10 years later Easyjet starts paying it's SFO's £40,000. On the basis of this your company says YOU should be paid that much as well. Then you start reading posts on here, whinging you are paid too much because a SFO at xyz airlines only earns 'x' amount. Despite the fact that you signed your contract and have planned your life around the money you were told you were to earn, tough luck, people are getting paid less elsewhere, so should you. What would your reaction be? Put your hand up and say 'yes, indeed, let me tear up my contract and get paid half that'. No Way!

The situation at BA is not unique. When a lot of these people joined BA they were in effect 'civil servants'. They worked for a government entity that lost millions of pounds a year and no-one gave a sh**. It is no different at other similar carriers such as QF, AF, LH, AZ, etc etc the list goes on.

On the subject of seniority it is something totally different to dosh. Flying Crew Orders state seniority and rank clearly. Money isn't related. Because you are of higher rank it doesn't state you should be of higher salaries. Most crew earn more than their superiors ('performance Execs') whether they are on the new or the old contract. It's like saying that Rod Eddington is more senior than Tony Blair because his salary is more. Nope!

[BYMONEK]

Wiggy

I must be missing something myself here.I thought seniority was based on date of joining regardless of job title. ie a Captain with 10 years in BA is LESS senior than an 11yr purser. Doesn't this count towards things like staff travel priorities? It's someones rank that is independent so a brand new F/O will have authority over a 35 yr CSD.....on the Aircraft.Wether he/she would choose to enforce it off the Aircraft......
Not trying to put the F/O's job down at all. I'm well aware of the resposibilities placed on young shoulders at times and of the time,effort and money that goes into it. Much more than the 4 weeks or so of Cabin Crew.That is why they still get paid more than the new Cabin Crew members.

My main point is that many people out there think Flight Crew should never be in a situation where they will earn less money than Cabin Crew,regardless of time in Company.
Your referance to the terrible and sad incident at LHR many years ago actually reveals less knowledge of BA than I thought you had.The Captain not only lost his rank but his job.He was taken to court for gross negligence and later took his own life. You say that the 2 ringer was disciplined,and quite rightly so, but may I ask what position this person now holds in the Company?
If, like me you know the answer to this, you'll also know your argument holds no water.

[Doors2Automatic]

Rimmer,How dare you try to do away with my position as CSD.I for one am extremely pro-active ,work hard on the aircraft and do all with-in my power to motivate the crew to give excellent service therefore bringing back the passengers who pay our,YOUR wages.

I sincerely hope you are joking re the £68,000p/a!!! so we can all laugh together as one big happy BA family!!.Otherwise I am sure people are laughing at you .

If that is how much I earned last year is it any wonder I don't need to be a pilot .Maybe you should hang up those headsets stop listienng out on 121.9 all day and join crew(cabin).

By the time you reach CSD in 10-15 years we will be earning in excess of lets say....£120,000 p/a!!.

Anyway must go now,got to pick the wife up from her city job as her SLK is in the garage for a valet for the summer.Get home and open a bottle of Champers and have a swim in the heated pool with the four kids as they've all finished public school for three weeks .

Off to the yacht for hols in South of France,don't know a good skipper do you?,I pay well .

Kindest regards,

Doors2Automatic.

PS Did your ex run off with a CSD!!? .

[BYMONEK]

Keeperboy

The problem facing BA at the moment is for the very reasons you state.This isn't the Company it was and if it wants to survive,change is required,regardless of what plans people may have made. Ruthless CEO's and accountants with their own interests at heart ( big bonuses if we make target) have turned Aviation on it's head and if Airlines are to survive these low cost threats,they need to change and adapt. British Airways is stuggling to break away from restrictive working practises that,as you say, have been around now for many years.The pilots,although still well paid in comparison to other UK Airlines,have made concessions to change and adapt.The Cabin Crew,however,along with other departments in the Company,appear to be entrenched in their determination to hold onto their golden contracts.
Although you shouldn't be putting your hands up, I do think that BASSA may be your own worst enemy. If people don't start opening their eyes and moving with the times,you'll all be hanging up those new uniforms for good and that is probably why The Pilots are getting pissed off.....it's their job too that goes down the pan.

[Doors2Automatic]

We're all working for one goal and thats to keep BA making profit to pay off the 3.5 billion we still owe so we can invest in some new aircraft to keep us up with the likes of Emirates and Virgins new equipment.(excellent airlines too).

Does it really matter what job we do, check-in, loader, lost and found, dispatch, pilot, operations or cabin crew. It makes me angry when certain people, (again only the minority) think they are above someone else in life because of the job they do, very shallow people.

It's time to work together and move forwards.

Doors2Automatic.

PS Can the few certain people please stop ruining layovers by telling cabin crew that they should be on the hourly rate, EG300 and how militant our Union is.

Off the aircraft = time to relax and play .

[BYMONEK]

Quote

It's time to work together and move forwards.

Well said 'doors'! You have a great Airline there and one that all of you should be proud to work for.

[keeperboy]

BYMONEK I certainly hear what your saying as in airline surviving, jobs for all etc etc.

But the fact is, what we the staff see at the moment is BA proclaiming itself the 'worlds most profitable airline' in the Daily Mail with annual profits of £525 million. I know there are financially minded people who will say this doesn't really mean anything, we are still in grave danger etc etc but to the average joe (like me!) that multi million pound profit speaks volumes. I know we still have to reduce our debt etc but with profits like this the company is going to have a real hard time negotiating cuts with BASSA and perhaps rightly so.

We (the cabin crew) all know where the cuts can be made. On long-haul on a 747 we have a CSD and 4 (four ) Pursers. Leaving lots of high salary chiefs and few indians.

I recently just came over from short-haul and we had the infamous CAT turnarounds paying 37 odd-quid and minimum 2.5 hour break times etc.

Believe me I din't want to be sat in the CAT lounge for an hour and a half before doing my next flight, or at Compass Centre for 2 hours. But this is the fact.....I needed to get every single 'allowence' I could get. My basic salary, before tax, pension plan etc is just over £800 a month . After tax, NI, pension etc it would probably leave me with about £680 take home. Do you know how far that goes in London? So you can see how imperative it is for the cabin crew to do all they can to protect their allowence structure as this generally makes up 50-75% of monthly take home pay.

Many of the pilots I know are generally mis-guided about our pay deal and the hourly rate deal we were offered. Most don't rabbit on in terms of spite I know, many generally feel we will be better off as we would receive a similar deal to the pilots. They tell us how we would all get an increase in our basic pay and how they put all the costs of the CAT turnarounds into a pot and divide it etc etc. This is false . We were NOT offered an hourly rate deal anywhere near like what the pilot community accepted. We were offered the hourly rate, and not a penny more in our basic pay. That was the end of it. The problem for BA was is that they told us what the hourly rate would be (and rightly so). So of course we were able to come home, and work out what we would receive with the hourly rate versus what we received with the current system. i can't speak for eveyone, but in my case I was losing £300-£500 per month . No-one is going to sign up for that.

I do believe BASSA needs to find a way forward with the company though. This should be where both the company and the crew benefit. I really think this will happen soon. For the first time we now have some BASSA reps who are on the 'new contract' so will raise some issues for us on the new contract who will hopefully be at BA in another 20 years time. I hope this gets sorted as BA has a real 'cabin crew hating' feel about it and it makes it difficult for us to move together as a team.

Finally, just in regards to the unions. BASSA and BALPA aren't some autonomous organisations being difficult or making stupid rules. The unions only comprise it's members and their views, ie YOU AND ME.

[GS-Alpha]

The fact is that most people know only the rumours about what other workgroups are paid. Yes, at Heathrow, the cabin crew have many inefficient work practices. The same can be said of every workgroup - and I include us pilots in that. However, my personal opinion is that the pilots are one of the most efficient workforces in BA. Then again, I am a pilot, and I only know the rumours I hear of other groups' T's & C's.

Something I know for sure is that BA management love to see us all fighting like this, because they then find it much easier to attack us ALL.

For the most part, I do not begrudge the cabin crew their terms and conditions. I see incredible amounts of enthusiasm from a couple of the crew on almost every trip, and I feel proud to have these individuals working within our company! It is these people that seriously deserve their salaries. However, there are quite a few who feel the world owes them a living, and I do not have time for these people. BA would do better to weed these people out and replace them, than to attack salaries. You have to spend money to make money, but you must get good value for your money. BA does not get good value for money from such people, and neither do our customers. Similarly, if you encourage workgroups to envy/hate each other, and continually erode T's and C's, you will eventually erode good will and enthusiasm. This might not be something that an accountant can quantify, but it actually costs the company a lot of money on a regular basis.

In my opinion, the BIGGEST problem within BA is this:

Each manager has their own budget, and they will do all they can to save money within their own department, even though it is clear that their saving will result in an overall increase in cost for the company as a whole. Sometimes this cost would be clear even to an accountant if they looked properly, but many times it is simply someone's good will removed, and therefore unwillingness to go that extra mile when needed. It all boils down to management bonuses and SEP (Somebody else's problem). I believe this is the single biggest inefficiency that this company has, and I for one find it very frustrating that money is totally wasted in this manner.

[itsinthebag]

Unsurprisingly, the BA flight crew on here who have taken great pleasure in bashing the BA cabin crew have kept VERY quiet about their pay - anyone of you care to post how much an FO, SFO and Captain take home??????? Hmmmm.