BA cabin crew strike ballot!
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BA Bashers.....
What is it with people always complaining that BA crew are greedy and recommending sacking them all and replacing them with cheap labour etc etc? Is it jealousy? Or something else? I don't get it.
I started at BA (LHR) four years ago, so am on the 'new contract'. BA is the third airline I have worked for as Cabin Crew, having worked for bmi and Virgin before. FINALLY I am really happy to work for a company that I feel treats me well, looks after me and pays me well.
I typically earn around £1800 per month (take home/net), sometimes a little more, sometimes a little less. I know this is more than I have ever earned before with other airlines and I feel privelidged to work for an airline that pays me so well. As sad as it sounds money is probably the best motivator you can get. After four years I still come to BA with a positive, motivated attitude. I get on the aircraft with a smile on my face and a 'can do' attitude. I feel happy to be there, well rested and happy earning good money. And I know that the only way to continue with the conditions and pay that I have is to do my part to keep our customers happy and coming back. There is no way I want to go back to earning £1200 a month and working like a dog for another airline!
Most of the people I work with are of the same opinion as me. Not with their head in the clouds taking their conditions for granted. We do get in the galley and chat about what Virgin or bmi or airtours or britannia was like to work for....and what they pay. And none of us want to go back there. I can pretty much count on one hand the amount of collegues that have (voluntarily ) left to go work for another airline.
There are some that slip through the net....hate the airline, hate the job, hate passengers. But they are the minority.
What is the point of saying stuff like 'do a swiss and sack them all and re-employ new ones'?? Swiss was bleeding like hell, BA is the most profitable airline in the world in 2004 (source ft.com). And do you know what contributed to BA's massive profits??? The hard work, professionalism and loyalty of it's crew!
I'm sure over time our working practices will change slowly. But it will always be a trade-off of what the company gives to the crew and what the crew give back to the company. The same way pay deals work in ANY industry.
I started at BA (LHR) four years ago, so am on the 'new contract'. BA is the third airline I have worked for as Cabin Crew, having worked for bmi and Virgin before. FINALLY I am really happy to work for a company that I feel treats me well, looks after me and pays me well.
I typically earn around £1800 per month (take home/net), sometimes a little more, sometimes a little less. I know this is more than I have ever earned before with other airlines and I feel privelidged to work for an airline that pays me so well. As sad as it sounds money is probably the best motivator you can get. After four years I still come to BA with a positive, motivated attitude. I get on the aircraft with a smile on my face and a 'can do' attitude. I feel happy to be there, well rested and happy earning good money. And I know that the only way to continue with the conditions and pay that I have is to do my part to keep our customers happy and coming back. There is no way I want to go back to earning £1200 a month and working like a dog for another airline!
Most of the people I work with are of the same opinion as me. Not with their head in the clouds taking their conditions for granted. We do get in the galley and chat about what Virgin or bmi or airtours or britannia was like to work for....and what they pay. And none of us want to go back there. I can pretty much count on one hand the amount of collegues that have (voluntarily ) left to go work for another airline.
There are some that slip through the net....hate the airline, hate the job, hate passengers. But they are the minority.
What is the point of saying stuff like 'do a swiss and sack them all and re-employ new ones'?? Swiss was bleeding like hell, BA is the most profitable airline in the world in 2004 (source ft.com). And do you know what contributed to BA's massive profits??? The hard work, professionalism and loyalty of it's crew!
I'm sure over time our working practices will change slowly. But it will always be a trade-off of what the company gives to the crew and what the crew give back to the company. The same way pay deals work in ANY industry.
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After four years I still come to BA with a positive, motivated attitude. I get on the aircraft with a smile on my face and a 'can do' attitude. I feel happy to be there, well rested and happy earning good money. And I know that the only way to continue with the conditions and pay that I have is to do my part to keep our customers happy and coming back.
It is them whom are being attacked by the comments on this thread, and those who benefit from taking sick days as part of their 'annual entitlement' who are most opposed to the sickness management policy.
Please understand that many crews are great, but a large minority really get on everyone's goat, and a re very poor passenger PR.
As SLF in the past few years on BA in world traveller, world traveller plus, club Europe and club world, I've never had occasions where the CC were other than at least 'Correct'. That was two occasions out of well over 150 flights in 3 years. The rest of the time, they were excellent
Unlike other airlines - America West, Air France and SAS who were universally pretty awful.
But I speak only as I find, and it's easy for others to have had crap treatment on a flight where I didn't. BA do seem pretty bad on having diet tonic in economy and WT+ on long haul, though!
I guess it comes down to the fact that any cabin crew can be pi**ed off given certain circumstances, and this then reflects on how they treat the slf.
American, however, seem to have permanently pi**ed off cabin crew - and so the slf (even in business class) pay the penalty!
Unlike other airlines - America West, Air France and SAS who were universally pretty awful.
But I speak only as I find, and it's easy for others to have had crap treatment on a flight where I didn't. BA do seem pretty bad on having diet tonic in economy and WT+ on long haul, though!
I guess it comes down to the fact that any cabin crew can be pi**ed off given certain circumstances, and this then reflects on how they treat the slf.
American, however, seem to have permanently pi**ed off cabin crew - and so the slf (even in business class) pay the penalty!
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I too used to travel regularly as SLF with BA, both club and cattle. I think we are going a bit off the original topic, but I felt I should add to the ongoing arguments.
I have not travelled with BA since 2001 due to CC. early that year I had 2 return flights to different middle east destinations. The first was club. The cc was worse than useless and came close to being offensive. Although only a 1/4 full, I was told my meal of choice had ran out and I would have to make do with the alternative. She was surly and arrogant. I did not wish the alternative and my partner (work colleague) decided to share her meal with me. Later in the flight I decided to utilise the free chocolates only to be informed that it was 'too close to meal time and was unavailable'. Normally I would have been angry at this treatment but both myself and colleague thought it was actually quite funny (and no, I was not drinking alcohol).
Another cc however had been watching her colleagues performance and once her colleague was out of sight, offered a meal from the first class and apologised for her behaviour.
On the return, (unfortunately cattle class), I was offered only biscuits and cheese and no other meal was offered for the whole flight. The cc was upset that I had the audacity to ask for a wine also. The flight actually returned to LHR early and therefore the cc used that as an excuse not to provide breakfast at all. All this for a princely sum of around £1,400 single. unbelieveable.
Overall, ba cc's are the worst I have ever encoutered, which is a shame because I know there are some genuinely good staff, but unfortunately they are in the minority, and Pax always remember the poor staff in such incidents.
So therefore due to these particular incidents (plus the fact that it is almost impossible to use BA point to point, unless you live in capital cities - eat your heart out ryanair) - that BA have lost my custom.
As to the salary structure, I would not wish to deny anyone a reasonable salary for a reasonable job, but staff will have to lose their holier than tho attitudes and provide a decent service to warrant their pay.
BA have lost their way short haul and this has led to the great SLF of this country to utilise LCCs to european destinations to connect with long haul, which leaves ba long haul vulnerable.
however, there appears to be a lot of internal grief to overcome first with the incessant bickering which seems rife from top to bottom.
I have not travelled with BA since 2001 due to CC. early that year I had 2 return flights to different middle east destinations. The first was club. The cc was worse than useless and came close to being offensive. Although only a 1/4 full, I was told my meal of choice had ran out and I would have to make do with the alternative. She was surly and arrogant. I did not wish the alternative and my partner (work colleague) decided to share her meal with me. Later in the flight I decided to utilise the free chocolates only to be informed that it was 'too close to meal time and was unavailable'. Normally I would have been angry at this treatment but both myself and colleague thought it was actually quite funny (and no, I was not drinking alcohol).
Another cc however had been watching her colleagues performance and once her colleague was out of sight, offered a meal from the first class and apologised for her behaviour.
On the return, (unfortunately cattle class), I was offered only biscuits and cheese and no other meal was offered for the whole flight. The cc was upset that I had the audacity to ask for a wine also. The flight actually returned to LHR early and therefore the cc used that as an excuse not to provide breakfast at all. All this for a princely sum of around £1,400 single. unbelieveable.
Overall, ba cc's are the worst I have ever encoutered, which is a shame because I know there are some genuinely good staff, but unfortunately they are in the minority, and Pax always remember the poor staff in such incidents.
So therefore due to these particular incidents (plus the fact that it is almost impossible to use BA point to point, unless you live in capital cities - eat your heart out ryanair) - that BA have lost my custom.
As to the salary structure, I would not wish to deny anyone a reasonable salary for a reasonable job, but staff will have to lose their holier than tho attitudes and provide a decent service to warrant their pay.
BA have lost their way short haul and this has led to the great SLF of this country to utilise LCCs to european destinations to connect with long haul, which leaves ba long haul vulnerable.
however, there appears to be a lot of internal grief to overcome first with the incessant bickering which seems rife from top to bottom.
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Average 22 days a year sick leave!!! Hello! That is approaching civil service levels. This has nothing to do with sickness and everything to do with a fractured sense of entitlement to extra days off. Someone looked at you the wrong way, take a day off. Need a new frock for the night out, take a sick day. Kid sick and hubby's at work, no problemo, another "sick day". The whole year, you've never been sick, yet 22 days have piled up.
It's theft plain and simple.
Keeperboy seems to hold the traditional attitude. Imagine that, taking a sick day when you are actually sick. Bloody hell!!
It's theft plain and simple.
Keeperboy seems to hold the traditional attitude. Imagine that, taking a sick day when you are actually sick. Bloody hell!!
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The only elements that aren't taxed are 64% of meal allowances which are currently hit by the low dollar rate to the pound and DOA's which is only £7.25 a day.
Perhaps you should have trained to be a pilot instead.
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Keeperboy: You blithely state that after 4 years with BA as CC you take home £1800 pm. You then say that you don't have your head in the clouds.
Humour me, how much does a 20 year Cabin Manager take home outside BA? Clue: Think lower.
My take home on my first jet job was about £1800 when I started 7 years ago and it ain't changed radically since then for new hires. Granted, it improves drastically as time goes by but even at the 4 year point it is not a world off £1800.
To echo others, sadly I am forced to fly BA S/H about 5 X a month. It is dreadful from check in to baggage claim, so much so that I now drive the M6, M40, M25. Apologies to the non Brits but these are motorways that accurately reflect hell on earth. If anyone knows of a way of driving across the Atlantic, give me a shout because that is even worse.
Whatever the reasons for staff behaving the way they do, the fact remains, they behave the way they do and that is badly.
Humour me, how much does a 20 year Cabin Manager take home outside BA? Clue: Think lower.
My take home on my first jet job was about £1800 when I started 7 years ago and it ain't changed radically since then for new hires. Granted, it improves drastically as time goes by but even at the 4 year point it is not a world off £1800.
To echo others, sadly I am forced to fly BA S/H about 5 X a month. It is dreadful from check in to baggage claim, so much so that I now drive the M6, M40, M25. Apologies to the non Brits but these are motorways that accurately reflect hell on earth. If anyone knows of a way of driving across the Atlantic, give me a shout because that is even worse.
Whatever the reasons for staff behaving the way they do, the fact remains, they behave the way they do and that is badly.
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Keeperboy
I have recently been considering a career change...
One of the areas I looked into was Medical Physics. This career path and pay scale was structured the same as all clinical scientists, which encompasses a very wide range of disciplines within the NHS. Incidentally they are among the highest earners in the NHS excluding doctors because they are in high demand. I mention this particular career because it has many of the same features as flying such as; antisocial hours and dealing with the public.
The training required for such a position would entail a good science degree (2.1 or 1st), a specialised post graduate degree (usually of a research nature, so two years or more), and then one or two years in house training... This is a total of about six or seven years of specialist training. After four years at work, a clinical scientist can expect to earn considerably less than the £1800 monthly take home you talk about. Not to mention the first five unsalaried years of university!
Now do you still think you earn a fair wage? I knew mainline BA cabin crew earned a lot, but I am staggered to read you can earn that on a NEW contract!
One of the areas I looked into was Medical Physics. This career path and pay scale was structured the same as all clinical scientists, which encompasses a very wide range of disciplines within the NHS. Incidentally they are among the highest earners in the NHS excluding doctors because they are in high demand. I mention this particular career because it has many of the same features as flying such as; antisocial hours and dealing with the public.
The training required for such a position would entail a good science degree (2.1 or 1st), a specialised post graduate degree (usually of a research nature, so two years or more), and then one or two years in house training... This is a total of about six or seven years of specialist training. After four years at work, a clinical scientist can expect to earn considerably less than the £1800 monthly take home you talk about. Not to mention the first five unsalaried years of university!
Now do you still think you earn a fair wage? I knew mainline BA cabin crew earned a lot, but I am staggered to read you can earn that on a NEW contract!
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Average 22 days a year sick leave!!! It's theft plain and simple.
What is it with people always complaining that BA crew are greedy and recommending sacking them all and replacing them with cheap labour etc etc? Is it jealousy? Or something else? I don't get it.
I'm also a BA shareholder (small investment in company terms, but big for me) and I'm horrified by what I read.
Do you think waitresses outside the aviation world take home anything like £1800 per month?
Read GS-Alpha's post. I know some cabin attendants have good academic qualifications and choose to do the job for the travel and perks. That's their choice. You don't NEED good academic qualifications to do the job and it doesn't take long to train cabin attendants.
I hope the new CEO sorts the scandal out.
Sally
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GS-Alpha,
BA crew take what the union negotiate for them. Whether it is fair or not has nothing to do with it. If you want to go in to Medical Physics then do so - nobody is forcing you. It's up to YOU to decide if you think you will be earning a fair salary at the end of your training isn't it?
Why do you think these people work for BA? Because most of them have worked for other airlines with crappy conditions before joining BA and BA have the best terms and conditions in the country if you want to fly as cabin crew surely. Seems like common sense to me. Why would you stay in one carrier when you could go elsewhere, earn more money and get a better lifestyle?
I've not met anyone yet who has turned down a job offer because the salary was too high......
BA crew take what the union negotiate for them. Whether it is fair or not has nothing to do with it. If you want to go in to Medical Physics then do so - nobody is forcing you. It's up to YOU to decide if you think you will be earning a fair salary at the end of your training isn't it?
Why do you think these people work for BA? Because most of them have worked for other airlines with crappy conditions before joining BA and BA have the best terms and conditions in the country if you want to fly as cabin crew surely. Seems like common sense to me. Why would you stay in one carrier when you could go elsewhere, earn more money and get a better lifestyle?
I've not met anyone yet who has turned down a job offer because the salary was too high......
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Dear Sally/airspeed999
As a cabin crew member I am quite aware that many think of us as waitresses in the sky. I just sincerely hope for your sake that next time you fly you don't develope a dvt, have a heart attack, cover yourself in vomit or find yourself on an aircraft where there is an oven fire and hence depend on your 'waitress' to take care of anything other than chicken or beef for you.
I also hope and pray that you never have a son or daughter who wishes to fly as cabin crew, It would be very hard to hear your mother belittle your chosen career in such a way.
As a cabin crew member I am quite aware that many think of us as waitresses in the sky. I just sincerely hope for your sake that next time you fly you don't develope a dvt, have a heart attack, cover yourself in vomit or find yourself on an aircraft where there is an oven fire and hence depend on your 'waitress' to take care of anything other than chicken or beef for you.
I also hope and pray that you never have a son or daughter who wishes to fly as cabin crew, It would be very hard to hear your mother belittle your chosen career in such a way.
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Mactom
The point I was making is that compared to the normal world, BA cabin crew have got a very good deal indeed - as have many other job descriptions within the company. If we want the company to be as good as it can be, these things need to change. And then as you say, if the people involved do not like their new terms and conditions, they can change careers or airlines - but in the majority of cases, they will not ever earn ANYTHING LIKE what they are taking home now. Of course these changes are not going to happen over night, but I hope they do happen eventually.
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Isn't it about time this was "MOVED"? As someone has already said it has been at the top of the page on the principal page of a PILOTS forum for long enough; and YES I KNOW I've just put it back there DUH. . .Please Mods enough is enough.
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I was always told NEVER discuss POLITICS, RELIGION or MONEY!(ie. Don`t tell others what you earn or ask what others earn...you`ll never like the answer 
)
)
Last edited by Tiger; 14th Mar 2005 at 06:02.
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Gs-Alpha,
I see you want the company 'to be the best that it can be'. I take it you will be first into see the new Chief Exec to tell him you are earning too much money, your deal is far too good, you don't live in the real world and could he please pay you less each month? Or will your personal terms and conditions be exempt from these changes?
These kind of comments in my experience were usually made by frustrated ground staff at BA who perceived all crew to be overpaid and underworked but of course had never done the job themselves and never would.
I see you want the company 'to be the best that it can be'. I take it you will be first into see the new Chief Exec to tell him you are earning too much money, your deal is far too good, you don't live in the real world and could he please pay you less each month? Or will your personal terms and conditions be exempt from these changes?
These kind of comments in my experience were usually made by frustrated ground staff at BA who perceived all crew to be overpaid and underworked but of course had never done the job themselves and never would.
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I will be first through the door to tell WW to benchmark each department against our competitors (AF, LH, IB, etc.). I think you'll find the pilots won't have much to worry about.
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YEOMAN I DO have an idea of how much a Cabin Manager earns with other airlines and I know I probably take home on par or more than them. And it is for THIS reason that I LEFT the previous airlines I worked for and joined BA. Because I don't want to be a cabin manager for an airline earning £1600 per month. Sorry! Every one of those Cabin Managers working for x y or z airline can log onto britishairwaysjobs.com and fill out the application form for cabin crew if they wanted. But far to often it's 'oh no I don't want to lose all my seniority and be a JUNION again'. Then tough! I'm sorry, but I am not going to feel guilty or selfish for the money I am earning. If I worked for a shop i'd probably want to work for the one that paid the most, if I worked in hotels i'd want to work in a sheraton or inter-continental, not a 'Motel 6'. 
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The Big Question
Okay, so we all seem to agree that BA CC are either overpaid or handsomely rewarded. It just depends which side of the fence you're on.
There have also been many posts describing a culture of 'complacency' with regards to delivering good customer service. I fly LH for BA and frankly I agree.
So here is the big question:
How can BA motivate their CC to do the job properly? (ie. Be charming to the passengers as well as being there to deal with emergencies)
1. Paying more is not an option and hasn't worked so far anyway.
2. Sacking / Rehiring isn't going to do much for loyalty.
3. It has been suggested that some sort of bidding system for work rosters would help...
4. Maybe the CC need to be reminded what a good deal they are on. Show them a proper benchmarked comparison with other airlines?
Answers on a postcard addressed to:
WW
BA Towers
House of the Flowing River
There have also been many posts describing a culture of 'complacency' with regards to delivering good customer service. I fly LH for BA and frankly I agree.
So here is the big question:
How can BA motivate their CC to do the job properly? (ie. Be charming to the passengers as well as being there to deal with emergencies)
1. Paying more is not an option and hasn't worked so far anyway.
2. Sacking / Rehiring isn't going to do much for loyalty.
3. It has been suggested that some sort of bidding system for work rosters would help...
4. Maybe the CC need to be reminded what a good deal they are on. Show them a proper benchmarked comparison with other airlines?
Answers on a postcard addressed to:
WW
BA Towers
House of the Flowing River