Qantas London base
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Question??
I have a few questions to anyone in the know thats on line with QF ?? Why are QF only offering externals a 10month contract based long haul Mel ..80 staff required in total ?? Who will fill the gap once they all leave?? They have around 300 if not more MAM casuels on line now and I belive a lot more going on line once the current MAM interviews are over. Will they always have this big base of casuels working for QF on going month to month??
I was told DIRECTLY with QF HR that QF are going to be doing ANOTHER drive for new hire as they have NO more shortlisters on the list. Why would this be required?? Also why are short haul crew been asked if they want to work on a 3 year contract in Brisbane and then return to their short haul position after that??
The whole thing at the moment is so hard to understand !!
Why has the crew not said enough is enough ..special long haul crew since there job seems to be more at risk!! I belive from August the short haul crew will be flying to HKG and TYO sharing with long haul crew..So once the london base is up no more EUROPE flying domestic crew fly regionals domesti crew fill in Brisbane ..So really the long haul crew are getting screwed from both sides!! WHY HAVENT THEY DONE SOMTHING TO PUT A STOP NOW !! Or is QF just saying all this just to get what they want and use LON as a threat !! So if they dont get they want by by crew!! Lets face it from all this there wont be much flying available for long haul crew by MID JUL next year if all goes to plan !! WILL THERE??? ACTION NOW AND give QF a taste of what they are up against?? Sorry to ask so many questions it just angers me with everything that is happening??
I was told DIRECTLY with QF HR that QF are going to be doing ANOTHER drive for new hire as they have NO more shortlisters on the list. Why would this be required?? Also why are short haul crew been asked if they want to work on a 3 year contract in Brisbane and then return to their short haul position after that??
The whole thing at the moment is so hard to understand !!
Why has the crew not said enough is enough ..special long haul crew since there job seems to be more at risk!! I belive from August the short haul crew will be flying to HKG and TYO sharing with long haul crew..So once the london base is up no more EUROPE flying domestic crew fly regionals domesti crew fill in Brisbane ..So really the long haul crew are getting screwed from both sides!! WHY HAVENT THEY DONE SOMTHING TO PUT A STOP NOW !! Or is QF just saying all this just to get what they want and use LON as a threat !! So if they dont get they want by by crew!! Lets face it from all this there wont be much flying available for long haul crew by MID JUL next year if all goes to plan !! WILL THERE??? ACTION NOW AND give QF a taste of what they are up against?? Sorry to ask so many questions it just angers me with everything that is happening??
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QANTASTIC,
My theory (and it is only a theory) is that QF LH and SH will eventually merge and become a sort of QF Mid-Haul. All the short hops will be done by Jetstar, and the point to point mid haul flights (say 14 hrs and less) will be done by QF Mid-Haul.
The point to point from destinations outside of AUS (eg. BKK-LHR) will be done by foreign based contract crew. (Ok that's the end of my theory heheh)
I agree with whomever mentioned that the new bases will be a bargaining tool used to further erode conditions and pay of current QF LH FAs. I am not a QF LH FA but do sincerely hope that my colleagues and friends from both SH and LH will stand united as if there are any cracks then Dickie will exploit them and everyone will end up losers.
I too believe those who are being offered the 10 month longhaul contracts will be used as strikebreakers at one time or another.
Frankly I think it's a bloody disgrace and totally un-Australian.
SG
My theory (and it is only a theory) is that QF LH and SH will eventually merge and become a sort of QF Mid-Haul. All the short hops will be done by Jetstar, and the point to point mid haul flights (say 14 hrs and less) will be done by QF Mid-Haul.
The point to point from destinations outside of AUS (eg. BKK-LHR) will be done by foreign based contract crew. (Ok that's the end of my theory heheh)
I agree with whomever mentioned that the new bases will be a bargaining tool used to further erode conditions and pay of current QF LH FAs. I am not a QF LH FA but do sincerely hope that my colleagues and friends from both SH and LH will stand united as if there are any cracks then Dickie will exploit them and everyone will end up losers.
I too believe those who are being offered the 10 month longhaul contracts will be used as strikebreakers at one time or another.
Frankly I think it's a bloody disgrace and totally un-Australian.
SG
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The Lesley Model
QANTASTIC
I'm not 'in the know' at Qantas but I can outline to you what goes on at Air NZ post Lesley G. Rant, from which I can see the same pattern emerging at QF re F/A recruitment.
What I have to describe is complex (sorry!) but it should go a long way to answering your question as to why HR only offered fixed term to a handful of externals, with the rest axed from the shortlist.
Assumption - Dicko wants to have 25% casualisation out on line. That's been publicly stated.
MAM expands as does AKL (already happening with shortlisters told they can't go to overseas bases and AKL recruiting every few months), get ready for LAX, LHR or wherever.
This means all new hire will be on fixed term as happens at NZ with all not employed by QF at all. Great cost saving for the airline. Lesley can coo in Dickos ear and say Customer Services (CC) has achieved its casualisation and cost targets over the period in question.
NZ has rarely given external to permanent in the last 5 years. The airline calls new hires 'temps'. Typically a temp is hired for 6 - 9 months during seasonal cycles.
The only base offering permanent often lately is LHR - because the turnover is so high they have to. The base pay before tax of around 25% is £1600 per month. Add to that a US$285 per trip allowance. There are about 4 or 5 trips per roster, with barely more than 2 days off between each. Rent in London's outskirts is about £450 per month for a room or if you want your own place expect about £6-700.
If you immigrate to the UK to join LHR, do not expect any kind of transfer to a NZ base. Doesn't happen anymore except to those coming off the last of the New Zealand based transfers who were on 3 year contracts ex New Zealand and already permanent at home.
Do you need a UK/EU passport? Yes, but not initially. Base employment was classified as a 'skills shortage' for visa purposes, which is why the carrot can be dangled for suckers who are prepared to transfer up there when the base is new.
Nowadays, go to LHR, you STAY at LHR, which is another reason why the base is attracting some really poor local candidates who expedite ahead of New Zealanders for OBM positions - the ISDs and ISCs (CSMs and CSSs) don't even want to stay.
Meanwhile, back in New Zealand, under NZ law, the term for a New Zealand based fixed term contract cannot be rolled continuously so eventually the temp is either made permanent or sent a letter wishing them well with their new career choice...yes, the actual words in the letter.
There is no documented process for selecting who gets permanent and who doesn't. That is exactly what has caught my attention when looking at what's going on at QF - its the same model being established. Lots of assumptions made by people that their fixed term will be a de facto probation for permanent. Under the Lesley method, it ain't happening.
Those who have blue eyes, or are "supportive of the company", or sleep with cabin crew management, or go to their homes for a rack of lamb, do quite well and often find their fixed term renewed. To be fair, some really good people slip through the net too.
No, I'm not being cynical, that is exactly whats going on.
Which is why I've been watching the devolution of management quality at QF cabin crew with some interest.
Seen it all before.
Its coming your way.
Guys, you make Qantas the icon its been. You deserve so much better.
I'm not 'in the know' at Qantas but I can outline to you what goes on at Air NZ post Lesley G. Rant, from which I can see the same pattern emerging at QF re F/A recruitment.
What I have to describe is complex (sorry!) but it should go a long way to answering your question as to why HR only offered fixed term to a handful of externals, with the rest axed from the shortlist.
Assumption - Dicko wants to have 25% casualisation out on line. That's been publicly stated.
MAM expands as does AKL (already happening with shortlisters told they can't go to overseas bases and AKL recruiting every few months), get ready for LAX, LHR or wherever.
This means all new hire will be on fixed term as happens at NZ with all not employed by QF at all. Great cost saving for the airline. Lesley can coo in Dickos ear and say Customer Services (CC) has achieved its casualisation and cost targets over the period in question.
NZ has rarely given external to permanent in the last 5 years. The airline calls new hires 'temps'. Typically a temp is hired for 6 - 9 months during seasonal cycles.
The only base offering permanent often lately is LHR - because the turnover is so high they have to. The base pay before tax of around 25% is £1600 per month. Add to that a US$285 per trip allowance. There are about 4 or 5 trips per roster, with barely more than 2 days off between each. Rent in London's outskirts is about £450 per month for a room or if you want your own place expect about £6-700.
If you immigrate to the UK to join LHR, do not expect any kind of transfer to a NZ base. Doesn't happen anymore except to those coming off the last of the New Zealand based transfers who were on 3 year contracts ex New Zealand and already permanent at home.
Do you need a UK/EU passport? Yes, but not initially. Base employment was classified as a 'skills shortage' for visa purposes, which is why the carrot can be dangled for suckers who are prepared to transfer up there when the base is new.
Nowadays, go to LHR, you STAY at LHR, which is another reason why the base is attracting some really poor local candidates who expedite ahead of New Zealanders for OBM positions - the ISDs and ISCs (CSMs and CSSs) don't even want to stay.
Meanwhile, back in New Zealand, under NZ law, the term for a New Zealand based fixed term contract cannot be rolled continuously so eventually the temp is either made permanent or sent a letter wishing them well with their new career choice...yes, the actual words in the letter.
There is no documented process for selecting who gets permanent and who doesn't. That is exactly what has caught my attention when looking at what's going on at QF - its the same model being established. Lots of assumptions made by people that their fixed term will be a de facto probation for permanent. Under the Lesley method, it ain't happening.
Those who have blue eyes, or are "supportive of the company", or sleep with cabin crew management, or go to their homes for a rack of lamb, do quite well and often find their fixed term renewed. To be fair, some really good people slip through the net too.
No, I'm not being cynical, that is exactly whats going on.
Which is why I've been watching the devolution of management quality at QF cabin crew with some interest.
Seen it all before.
Its coming your way.
Guys, you make Qantas the icon its been. You deserve so much better.
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...Base employment was classified as a 'skills shortage' for visa purposes, which is why the carrot can be dangled for suckers who are prepared to transfer up there when the base is new...
...Nowadays, go to LHR, you STAY at LHR, which is another reason why the base is attracting some really poor local candidates...
...Those who have blue eyes, or are "supportive of the company", or sleep with cabin crew management, or go to their homes for a rack of lamb, do quite well and often find their fixed term renewed. To be fair, some really good people slip through the net too...
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Honestly, I think QANTAS is simply following what other airlines have been doing in order to save their @rse in this industry. It's not meant against Australians, against short-listers or anything like that. It's the way things evolve. Cutting costs on allowances is nothing new to most airlines. Has anyone noticed that things are changing??????? Not that I like it but we gotta realize that the aviation old days are gone: low-cost have kicked in, competition is open to anyone, the old 5 star service is a thing of the past...
(expect for those lucky popstars sitting at the front)... Nowaday going by bus or by plane makes very little difference... aviation has expanded enormously and tickets have become less expensive... everyone is travelling and flying is no luxury anymore! Changes require people to ADAPT. You're in or you're out. It's nothing personal... and it'not about "sleeping with cabin crew management, or go to their homes for a rack of lamb"... We (U.K. very skilled but poor local candidates) know this type of situation too well. Come over here and see how things work!
Every airline I can think of has been cutting costs in the last few years, especially after 911.
Since the beginning of the EU, loads of foreign people have relocated here to work as cabin crew. They can't find work in their own country so they come to the U.K. where the airline industry is huge. I can't think of any U.K. cabin crew who joined Iberia, KLM or Alitalia, that I know... Do you think U.K. crew went on strike because of that? Nah! It's the way things are!
We all know it is very difficult to work for a good airline and get a decent salary. We all know that the old BA contracts are long gone and I'm sure BA waiting lists for transfers are even longer than the QANTAS ones!
There are 12 million people living in London (greater LDN) alone... and only 18 million people in the whole Australian continent... Now guess who's more likely to adapt?!?
Sorry guys! Reality check!
FJ
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Floaty
"Skills shortage" is a classification for visa application used by NZ to expatriate staff to the UK base.
The quality of applicant is a fact - I've done EPs with them. I've also watched highly productive people who add value to the airline lose out on career development because it is cheaper to reward people who aren't going to stay long term...which is the whole point of casualising the workforce.
If you think you could improve the base, then apply.
"Skills shortage" is a classification for visa application used by NZ to expatriate staff to the UK base.
The quality of applicant is a fact - I've done EPs with them. I've also watched highly productive people who add value to the airline lose out on career development because it is cheaper to reward people who aren't going to stay long term...which is the whole point of casualising the workforce.
If you think you could improve the base, then apply.
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Reality check FJ,
Qantas do not need to save their A@SS, they are making record profits. This is just about corporate greed and total disrespect for employees.
Can I urge all crew to attend the FAAA meeting in the next few weeks.
If you are unsure of the FAAA meeting dates, let me know and I'll PM them to you. Or post them here.
Qantas do not need to save their A@SS, they are making record profits. This is just about corporate greed and total disrespect for employees.
Can I urge all crew to attend the FAAA meeting in the next few weeks.
If you are unsure of the FAAA meeting dates, let me know and I'll PM them to you. Or post them here.
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FJ,
it seems that you are the one in need of a reality check.
QF at present are making RECORD profits.
Your blah, blah, blah,low cost carriers,blah blah blah,rant ignores the fact that the international side of QFs operation is next to immune from the threat of the Ryan air, Easyjet model.
People will and DO pay for comfort and service when traveling LONGHAUL. Inseat videos, food,wine,space and comfort............
It is next to impossible to buy a J/C seat with QF on the Kangaroo route at the moment such is the demand.
The FAAAs battle is to do with maintaining Australian jobs, in Australia for the benefit of ALL Australians.
Lesley Grant was in no small way responsible for nearly destroying Air NZ.
The last thing QF need at this point is a nasty dose of industrial strife brought about by an attack on the conditions of its front line staff.
Qantas, the worlds greediest airline.
L2P
it seems that you are the one in need of a reality check.
QF at present are making RECORD profits.
Your blah, blah, blah,low cost carriers,blah blah blah,rant ignores the fact that the international side of QFs operation is next to immune from the threat of the Ryan air, Easyjet model.
People will and DO pay for comfort and service when traveling LONGHAUL. Inseat videos, food,wine,space and comfort............
It is next to impossible to buy a J/C seat with QF on the Kangaroo route at the moment such is the demand.
The FAAAs battle is to do with maintaining Australian jobs, in Australia for the benefit of ALL Australians.
Lesley Grant was in no small way responsible for nearly destroying Air NZ.
The last thing QF need at this point is a nasty dose of industrial strife brought about by an attack on the conditions of its front line staff.
Qantas, the worlds greediest airline.
L2P
Last edited by Left2primary; 27th Jun 2004 at 01:03.
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LHR Bases:Pay and Conditions
Pay for LHR based crew will be 16,500 pounds p.a
Allowances will be approx 35 pounds per day
Accommodation will be airport hotels.Airports in HKG and BKK are 45 mins travelling time from the respective cities
Flying will be mainly trips of 3 and 4 days in length.You can expect to be away around 22 days a month.If you accumulate days in excess of 3 days on standown you will be required to do standby duties to cover sick leave.
There will be no associated airline benefits.In particular no staff travel discounts on any airline.
Flight attendants from the mainline operation of QF will be considered to be on leave without pay and will be paid by Adecco.
If you are promoted to the position of Onboard manager while in LHR you will still return to Sydney as a flight attendant.Your promotion will not carry back into mainline flying.
If any of you considers applying for these positions take a copy of your contract to an attorney that has an industrial relations background.Be Careful with the fine print!
The duration of the contract will be 2-3 years
If you can talk to some of the existing Thai and AKL based crew do so.The stories of fatigue and sickness related to the arduous nature of their flying will astound.
Qantas is in the transport business, customer service is secondary.IFE failures,aircraft breakdowns etc are endemic.Aircraft utililisation is the highest in aviation.Be prepared for delays rolling calls etc.You will not be paid for any overtime incurred.
Again QF is in the transport business, transporting large numbers of pax from one destination to another.The rest is window dressing.
You will not be treated as anything else other than arms and legs to do a job.Qantas has scant regard for its mainline people.Imagine how you will be treated as a remote employee.
As far as mainline employees are concerned be very careful about withdrawing your labour as a form of protest.You will be locked out and on contracts before you can say kingrat(Geoff Dixon`s nickname,Lesley Grant is affectionately known as the Black Widow)
Senior QF management are both astute and ruthless.Strike breaking plans are already in place.
A change of federal government will be a plus.It will change the industrial relations landscape in the employees favour.Lobby your local federal member and voice your opinion.
Finally be aware that management from time to time monitor forums such as this.The FAAA is aware of this and their website is to become password access only as a result
Allowances will be approx 35 pounds per day
Accommodation will be airport hotels.Airports in HKG and BKK are 45 mins travelling time from the respective cities
Flying will be mainly trips of 3 and 4 days in length.You can expect to be away around 22 days a month.If you accumulate days in excess of 3 days on standown you will be required to do standby duties to cover sick leave.
There will be no associated airline benefits.In particular no staff travel discounts on any airline.
Flight attendants from the mainline operation of QF will be considered to be on leave without pay and will be paid by Adecco.
If you are promoted to the position of Onboard manager while in LHR you will still return to Sydney as a flight attendant.Your promotion will not carry back into mainline flying.
If any of you considers applying for these positions take a copy of your contract to an attorney that has an industrial relations background.Be Careful with the fine print!
The duration of the contract will be 2-3 years
If you can talk to some of the existing Thai and AKL based crew do so.The stories of fatigue and sickness related to the arduous nature of their flying will astound.
Qantas is in the transport business, customer service is secondary.IFE failures,aircraft breakdowns etc are endemic.Aircraft utililisation is the highest in aviation.Be prepared for delays rolling calls etc.You will not be paid for any overtime incurred.
Again QF is in the transport business, transporting large numbers of pax from one destination to another.The rest is window dressing.
You will not be treated as anything else other than arms and legs to do a job.Qantas has scant regard for its mainline people.Imagine how you will be treated as a remote employee.
As far as mainline employees are concerned be very careful about withdrawing your labour as a form of protest.You will be locked out and on contracts before you can say kingrat(Geoff Dixon`s nickname,Lesley Grant is affectionately known as the Black Widow)
Senior QF management are both astute and ruthless.Strike breaking plans are already in place.
A change of federal government will be a plus.It will change the industrial relations landscape in the employees favour.Lobby your local federal member and voice your opinion.
Finally be aware that management from time to time monitor forums such as this.The FAAA is aware of this and their website is to become password access only as a result
Last edited by jetjockey7; 27th Jun 2004 at 02:05.
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LHR Base:Further Information
Flight time between LHR and SIN,BKK,and HKG is typically between 12 and 13 hours.Apart from Qf31(daylight from Sin)all sectors have an overnight component.Slip time in SIN,HKG and BKK will be in most cases 24 hrs.An overlap may result in longer slip time but nothing longer than 36 hrs.
Doing this 6 times a month will result in more chest,throat and ear infections than you have ever had in your life.Sleep patterns will be destroyed.The terms Stillnox.normison,melantonin will creep into your vocabulary.The partner you have now is not likely to be around in 12 months.
Forget about being home for weekends ,birthdays,christmas and any other anniversaries.
Give this a lot of consideration.This is the reality of a long haul flight attendant.This is meant to inform not frighten.I have no agenda other than to provide information that you will need to to consider before you make a life altering decision.
Doing this 6 times a month will result in more chest,throat and ear infections than you have ever had in your life.Sleep patterns will be destroyed.The terms Stillnox.normison,melantonin will creep into your vocabulary.The partner you have now is not likely to be around in 12 months.
Forget about being home for weekends ,birthdays,christmas and any other anniversaries.
Give this a lot of consideration.This is the reality of a long haul flight attendant.This is meant to inform not frighten.I have no agenda other than to provide information that you will need to to consider before you make a life altering decision.
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TSSOV
I take your point.
Scenario:
You do your sector from LHR to HKG.The next service back to LHR is not for two days.Two days accommodation,two days allowance ,too expensive.At the end of your 24 hour slip in HKG you pax to BKK,transit for 2 hours and pickup the QF2 to LHR.You have no hours limitation to your tour of duty.Pax operate it doesn`t matter.You have been employed to save money.16 or 17 hour duties will become the norm for you.If you complain or go sick too often your contract will be reviewed.There are thousands of people ready to fill your shoes.I have been in airline management for 20 years,I have a reasonable idea of how these things work .
Scenario:
You do your sector from LHR to HKG.The next service back to LHR is not for two days.Two days accommodation,two days allowance ,too expensive.At the end of your 24 hour slip in HKG you pax to BKK,transit for 2 hours and pickup the QF2 to LHR.You have no hours limitation to your tour of duty.Pax operate it doesn`t matter.You have been employed to save money.16 or 17 hour duties will become the norm for you.If you complain or go sick too often your contract will be reviewed.There are thousands of people ready to fill your shoes.I have been in airline management for 20 years,I have a reasonable idea of how these things work .
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jetjockey7 -
It’s interesting that you have only just registered on the 27th. Seems to me you became a ppruner to start s**t stirring. I have friends that moderate other aviation forums here in Australia. In the past they have had to ban users who have been found out to being paid by their employers (of a rival airline) to bad mouth QF in this particular public forum.... all with a bit of... how shall I put it?…"flair"
I hope I’m wrong. It’s just this pessimistic attitude, which you project under a facade of 20 years "airline management".
People, please don’t take the as an attack on other airlines. Furthermore, I too share the same feelings about certain things that have happened in The Land Down Under to starry eyed wanna-bees...AND hardworking professionals (i.e. Ansett.) I don’t consider myself to be a naive person – pprune is not my only source of airline goss, I am a quiet listener, and have spoken up here to raise a question, and will be as happy as a wanna-be in a CC uniform if I am wrong. i am a compassionate individual too, if you have a problem with what I have written in this post feel free to PM me - in fact I encourage it.
anywhooo...
SMILE
It’s interesting that you have only just registered on the 27th. Seems to me you became a ppruner to start s**t stirring. I have friends that moderate other aviation forums here in Australia. In the past they have had to ban users who have been found out to being paid by their employers (of a rival airline) to bad mouth QF in this particular public forum.... all with a bit of... how shall I put it?…"flair"
I hope I’m wrong. It’s just this pessimistic attitude, which you project under a facade of 20 years "airline management".
People, please don’t take the as an attack on other airlines. Furthermore, I too share the same feelings about certain things that have happened in The Land Down Under to starry eyed wanna-bees...AND hardworking professionals (i.e. Ansett.) I don’t consider myself to be a naive person – pprune is not my only source of airline goss, I am a quiet listener, and have spoken up here to raise a question, and will be as happy as a wanna-be in a CC uniform if I am wrong. i am a compassionate individual too, if you have a problem with what I have written in this post feel free to PM me - in fact I encourage it.
anywhooo...
SMILE
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TSSOV,
I'm guessing jj7''s comments are born of experience and not an attempt to bad mouth a rival airline.
Many of us have first hand experience in the immoral way QF treat it's operational staff,when unprotected by a fair and equitable award.
I have no idea if you have any experience in longhaul flying but if you do how does this pattern sound to you?
AKL-BNE-SYD--24
SYD-SIN --24
SIN-FRA --24
FRA-SIN --24
SIN-SYD --48 [1 day used for EP/other training]
SYD-BNE-AKL
With no reqirement for stand down beyond 2 days you are then off to LAX.
AKL based adecco staff are treated as nothing more than a means of production as demonstrated by this totaly inhumane pattern.
Rumour has it that CASA found two AKL staff asleep [a common occurance] at their jumseats on taxi. After investigation into the patterns they were subjected to they were suddenly given 48 hours in SIN.
Anyone who thinks that the proposed LHR base crew will be treated any better is delusional.
Greed at QF knows no limits so stock up on chemicals to help you cope.
Not pretty?...................its the truth.
L2P
I'm guessing jj7''s comments are born of experience and not an attempt to bad mouth a rival airline.
Many of us have first hand experience in the immoral way QF treat it's operational staff,when unprotected by a fair and equitable award.
I have no idea if you have any experience in longhaul flying but if you do how does this pattern sound to you?
AKL-BNE-SYD--24
SYD-SIN --24
SIN-FRA --24
FRA-SIN --24
SIN-SYD --48 [1 day used for EP/other training]
SYD-BNE-AKL
With no reqirement for stand down beyond 2 days you are then off to LAX.
AKL based adecco staff are treated as nothing more than a means of production as demonstrated by this totaly inhumane pattern.
Rumour has it that CASA found two AKL staff asleep [a common occurance] at their jumseats on taxi. After investigation into the patterns they were subjected to they were suddenly given 48 hours in SIN.
Anyone who thinks that the proposed LHR base crew will be treated any better is delusional.
Greed at QF knows no limits so stock up on chemicals to help you cope.
Not pretty?...................its the truth.
L2P
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L2 Primary -
Thanks for your post. I take your point, and empathise. I too am a hard worker, and can understand what that pattern is like to work. I posted initially because I found it irritating that my friend JJ7 had posted three times in one day (their 1st day of pprune membership) about the london base - add 500mL of pessimism and serve.
Its ok. I enjoyed the healthy disscussion
TSSOV
SMILE
Thanks for your post. I take your point, and empathise. I too am a hard worker, and can understand what that pattern is like to work. I posted initially because I found it irritating that my friend JJ7 had posted three times in one day (their 1st day of pprune membership) about the london base - add 500mL of pessimism and serve.
Its ok. I enjoyed the healthy disscussion
TSSOV
SMILE
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Ask yourself this?
I can understand how upset Aussies must be. Unfortunately, QF are only doing what most airlines are doing .... saving money. None of us like it. I impacts on our lives, but there is no point having a go at anyone in this part of the world for wanting to apply for the job. Its not their fault is it? Ask yourself this? If for instance BA did the same thing and set up a base in Sydney for Aussie crew, can you honestly say that none of you would apply because you felt it was wrong and insensivitve to take jobs of the Brits? I don't think so. At then end of the day, I think you will find that a large majority of your own staff will opt for the post and what a great opportunity it would be for them. Why don't you put your views forward to the people that make these decisions. As QFmike737 mentioned, bitterness between two bases is damaging.
No doubt I shall now receive a barrage of abuse!!!!
No doubt I shall now receive a barrage of abuse!!!!
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I dont work for QF and most likely never will (if they dont remove their upper height limits, which by the way, are completely outdated) but can I strongly strongly recommend to everyone posting on this thread to direct your anger at QF Management and not each other... Bitterness will only lead to division amongst you, and in situations like this you need to stand strong and together and ask Dixon if he wants "the chicken or the fish", or does he want to kiss your a*se!
United they stand, divided they fall.... remember that folks
United they stand, divided they fall.... remember that folks
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QF Management
KING RAT and the BLACK WIDOW:I like that.
Rodents and deadly spiders.
Would Mark Hassell be the Queen Bee ?
Rodents and deadly spiders.
Would Mark Hassell be the Queen Bee ?
Last edited by mach2male; 29th Jun 2004 at 02:34.