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Jetstar - Wannabes & Recruitment II

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Jetstar - Wannabes & Recruitment II

Old 28th Dec 2007, 10:59
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Smartalec888, I'm not sure where you're going to be based or whether you're domestic or international (I didn't read back to see if you said that), but those pay/conditions details you posted there are now obsolete.

That was what stood under the common law contracts initially drawn up for Team Jetstar. But myself and the other 23 in my current ground school (we are the only current Team Jetstar employees) for MEL domestic, have just voted unanimously to accept the new Collective Agreement that has been negotiated between the FAAA and Team Jetstar.

The new five-year agreement has an increased first year base salary of $33,475 with payrises yearly; $34,479 as of Sep '08, $35,513 as of Sep '09, $36,578 as of Sep '10, and $37,675 as of Sep '11.

The flying allowance has also been increased to $11.70 for every block hour. And this will be increased by 3% each year of the agreement.

When taking the flying allowance into account and adding that to the base salary, the overall pay we expect to take home in a year is comparable to the current crew with potential to actually earn more if we end up being rostered the higher number of hours we're able to work in a month. Which are still the same as before by the way; 152 hours rostered over a 28 day period, or up to 164 hours rostered over a month. And I've just received my first roster for January and we are getting rosters by the calendar month like the current crew - not 28 day. It also now states that we can only work 6 consecutive days - I don't think the previous contract had that.

The new agreement also now says that when we take sick days we will be docked a notional day of 7.6 hours from our total sick hours instead of under the previous contract where we would have been docked the amount of hours we were rostered to work that day, whether it had been a 6 hr duty or a 13 hr one.

We also now have a concrete redundancy plan offered to us under the new agreement and there is now also 12 weeks paid maternity leave which I believe is the same as the current EBA. We'll now also get paid at a rate of 1:4 hours for our home standby (live days), which I THINK is like the current crew maybe?

With regards to days off per month, the new agreement now clearly states that the employee will have a minimum of 8 days off in every roster period.

The new agreement still allows for 228 hours of annual leave a year - ie. 6 weeks.

Our notice of termination of employment period has now been extended to 4 weeks once you're off the initial 6 month probation period. 5 weeks if you're over 45 years of age.

The new agreement also spells out clearly that we have a disputes settlement procedure and a consultation clause whereby a communication and consultation process regarding issues that affect employees under this agreement can take place between union reps, the employees and the company. The previous common law contract did not allow for this.

The only area that wasn't changed, is the duty hours and rest periods. Because in order for Team Jetstar to accept the requests put forward by the FAAA, they couldn't come to agree on the duty hours and rest periods so they will be re-negotiated at midpoint of the agreement (in about 2.5 years) after there's been practical experience of cabin crew working under these duty hours and conditions.

The area where Jetstar is benefitting from this agreement is much greater flexibility to use us domestic crew to occasionally operate international sectors because of our longer allowed duty hours and even the flexibility of having crew that won't 'run out of hours' on domestic duties where delays occur.

For the record, our planned duty hours are 12 hours, with operational extensions to 15 hours. But I doubt we'll start seeing days that long until we have enough Team JQ crew out on line to make up an entire crew on any given flight because until then, we'd have to be in line with the Jetstar crew we're crewing alongside for the day. These kind of hours are going to allow us to do hops like MEL-DRW-SIN or MEL-PER-SIN and also to operate on some international sectors in addition to our mainly domestic flying duties.

Planned rest period is 12 hours following a duty of 0-14 hours with operational reductions to 10 hours. Following a duty of 14-17 hours the rest period will equal the duty hours with operational reductions to 12 hours.

We said yes to this agreement because most areas were improved upon from the previous common law contract and also because a union-negotiated COLLECTIVE agreement was always going to be better than an 'individual vs the company' style contract.

All of us in the current ground school are having a ball - a real awesome time, and are looking forward to getting out on line. Some of us were initially concerned with the longer duty hours and stuff, but there's nothing we can do about that - ALL new crew will be employed under Team JQ and there's no changing that.

None of us were going to knock back this job based on the principle of fighting for 'what is right'. Because unless EVERYONE rejects the offer on the table and it ends up being just a few that protest by knocking back the job offer, then Jetstar isn't going to change a THING! That's why I see this as inevitable. I do at least take SOME comfort in knowing we have a LOT more safeguards and assurances in place with the new Collective Agreement (which by the way, took effect from 21 December) - more things that are in writing, rather than all the loopholes or loose ends there were with the common law contract.

All of the crew that we've spoken to already and the managers that have been coming in to speak to us have been really great - awesome people and a friendly working environment is what we've all noticed about Jetstar and we all feel really welcome in our new jobs. No one so far has given us a hard time about the fact we're Team Jetstar nor do I feel we'll cop that when we're out on line, despite what current crew's personal opinions may be.

So Smartalec888, if you are starting ground school in the upcoming weeks and you've only got that common law contract so far, then rest assured you'll have the new agreement posted out to you soon.
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Old 28th Dec 2007, 12:47
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On paper doesn't seem too bad.
Try doing a 14 hour back of the clock (syd-bali-syd) duty then having 12hrs rest and rocking up again that night for the next duty. I am not a princess but I am very tired after a 4 sector 10hr 15min duty and I am entitled to 14 hours rest.

I'll be interested to see how great the Team Jetstar feel after the first 6 months.

Best of luck
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Old 29th Dec 2007, 10:16
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Please excuse my ignorance but can someone please explain exactly what the difference between Jetstar crew and "Team Jetstar" crew is? I was thinking that Team Jetstar was the recruitment team but reading here it looks like there is another meaning and I have yet to find it on the Jetstar website.
Thanks.
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Old 29th Dec 2007, 10:33
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Team Jetstar is a subsidiary company of Jetstar Airways. They are now doing all of the recruiting for Jetstar Airways. They have their own ABN.

Previously staff crewing Jetstar flights were employed by Jetstar Airways working under an EBA. Staff are now employed by Team Jetstar and are working under a collective agreement, with their terms and conditions being much lower than those covered by the EBA.

I think that covers it in a nutshell, anyone else feel free to add.

Last edited by airbusthreetwenty; 29th Dec 2007 at 14:19.
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Old 30th Dec 2007, 01:12
  #45 (permalink)  
 
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Did I Miss Something?

How can individuals who have never flown negotiate Terms and Conditions for their future employment?
Dont tell me...They have abley assisted by the Domestic FAAA.
God help you!
$34K pa is around what you would get on the dole.The average wage in Australia is around $40k for a male and slightly less for a female.
Jet* is all about burn and churn.
You will last three years if you are lucky.
You have been bent over big time.
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Old 30th Dec 2007, 01:49
  #46 (permalink)  
 
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Yes i agree with others regarding 'operationally' being required to work more... you may think that because 'current' crew have limits of what they can work - that because there arent alot of Team Jetstar crew around you wont have to work that much either.. instead consider the scenario that we will be rostered a double OOL return, we get off but your duty involves going back to the crew room - signing on with a new crew and doing a MCY return with them.
Or operating your full days flying then finding that you have to go and jump on the aircraft next door (who are waiting for you - fully boarded) to operate a HTI return. sorry - this isnt lighthearted speculation - this will happen!!

in regards to pay - on paper, sure it looks like you have the potential to earn more than current crew if you work your maximum hours - but will you?
Is it humanely possible to do so? Consider that working 140-150 hours max a month with 10 days off crew struggle to have a normal life - fatigue dictates what you do and when you do it and you are constantly in a groundhog day turning back up to work for the same 4 sector hell flight. You will be working LONGER with LESS DAYS OFF... its not possible to do a whole month without going sick doing that many hours. if you tell yourself that why would they initiate these conditions if they knew that.. well operationally its easier to have a few crew go sick each month but be able to work them harder then reduce what they can work permanently.

Consider the fact that you want to fly - but please weigh it up against whether you want some sort of life outside work too. because working your maximum hours - you wont have one. not even a small one, no matter how un-partyish you are. I am only stating this because after our christmas day effort of a whole lot of new crew going sick last minute because they cant be bothered and realise the job is tiring and they are not getting paid for christmas day - it angers me when people come into this job expecting that it will be cruisy and easy to do - then cant handle the fatigue, so go sick all the time. EVERY TIME YOU GO SICK AT SHORT NOTICE YOU ARE INCONVENIENCING YOUR CREW FOR THE DAY WHO HAVE TO WORK HARDER TO COVER THE SPOT YOU HAVE LEFT.

the above was just a note to everyone at jetstar, not just the new team jetstar ppl, but please keep it in mind. Crewing dont care who you are or what you have done all month. they will lie to you to get you in to work to use you for whatever they need. dont expect niceties from them in regards to sympathy when you are rostered all four sector days for fifteen days in a row with only two days off to break it up and make it legal. it will happen!
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Old 30th Dec 2007, 04:29
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1. At my recruitment day we were ONLY told about the previous "Jetstar" working conditions, "Team Jetstar" was NOT mentioned at all. No communication was made from Jetstar or anyone from The Qantas Group of entities of the change in advertised working conditions.

2. As for someone saying that that working contract is obselete is a joke. That contract was sent to my address from Melbourne on 24/12. I'm sorry but if you negotiate your working conditions that's something that only affects YOUR working conditions, not everyone else.

As for those of you who say "we are having so much fun is ground school and look foward to flying" that's simply because you don't know any better.

The last JQi groundschool that went through was for CNS base, and it was the worst they have ever had (over JQdom and int) straight from the Base Managers mouth. Low pass rates, inexperienced recruits, people consistantly turning up late and cabin managers in training that have failed simple cabin prep tests and most important EP's!!

Rumour has it that two girls from their GS04 that as soon as they received their uniform they went out shopping in it, now when JQi staff receive their uniforms it is UNHEMMED. The base manager found out and appropriate punnishments were handed out. To me that says young and immature recruits who have no idea what their in for and are still in the mentality that "flying is glamourous".
There is alot of speculation that CNS int base will be closed and the current crew sent off to PER/DRW/SYD/MEL bases.

I'm happy where I am now at Mainline and know that my working conditions could never get as bad as those.
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Old 30th Dec 2007, 04:50
  #48 (permalink)  
 
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the working contract has been changed by the FAAA for all future Team Jetstar employees - all current Jetstar Staff were sent an email by the FAAA stating this and you will be able to view it on the FAAA domestic website i am sure.

Having said that.. it is still quite third world... and comparing the differences between our current conditions and those of Team Jetstar - there are vast differences. Our conditions at Jetstar havent changed dramatically in the three or so years since Jetstar Started - our pay has increased from that of when we were Qantaslink and the only noticeable day to day change has been the increase in duty hours on a day to day basis.
Overall - our conditions are not bad and i am happy working here and will be here hopefully for many more years to come. The only major noticeable difference that has been happening has been the influx of 'young' crew who have been recruited straight from highschool - minimal customer service experience in difficult situations (if any at all) and a desire to want a life (nothing that you wouldnt expect any normal 18 year old to want to do either)
With experience and age comes a situational awareness and ability to think on your feet... not have to constantly ask or check if what your doing is okay.. confidence to stand up to passengers and assert yourself.. maturity to realise that you have chosen a job that requires you to work at 5am on a saturday morning so dont go out friday night and call in sick saturday or show up hungover. And previous work experience to realise that sitting down reading magazines in the back galley for most of the flight - just because you have the available time - dosent mean its acceptable.
Sadly - many of the newer crew coming through dont understand this because they are either too young and have no idea, or are not suited for it.
I would be interested to know what 'type' of people they are looking for in Team Jetstar recruits... i would think that they have surely learnt their lesson from hiring lots of 18 year olds and would go for more mature types - but would the mature types accept the conditions and workload?
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Old 30th Dec 2007, 06:01
  #49 (permalink)  
 
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Historical Circles

About every 10 to 15 years some genius in CC management somewhere comes up with idea of employing young people with no life experience.
Every time it is a disaster.
The new recruits are set up to fail.With very little training,still developing interpersonal skills and virtually no customer service skills the first couple of years are a nightmare for them.
Put them in a foreign port unsupervised,mix in alcohol and a few party venues and you have a brew for trouble.Its not their fault.
They are just young and having fun.
Many of the youngsters coming into the workforce are Gen Y.Now they are a whole different ball game.They are definitely not suited for customer service roles.
Yes, yes I know..a generalization...but accurate
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Old 30th Dec 2007, 07:14
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Life experience, it's not all glamour

When I went through Qantas longhaul recruitment in the late 80's,life experience and maturity counted.
The average age was approx 27, there were school teachers, nurses, policemen and women, customs officers, firemen etc, basically a good spectrum of society was represented.
Everyone had realistic expectations about being a F/A from cleaning toilets, vomit and coping with drunk and disorderly Pax. Many were already shift workers and knew what it was like to have a real job where peoples lives depended on you.
Jet* are taking advantage of the young and naive. The new hopefuls are looking for the glamour. It seems Jet* have adopted the Burn and Churn employment strategy.
For example I see it now when we cross-crew with the Kiwi's. They are tired and I've actually seen them asleep on their jumpseat when we are landing.God help us if we have an emergency. They have a very high attrition and burn out rate.
Food for thought,for the younger hopeful future F/A's out there.
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Old 30th Dec 2007, 08:11
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How dare some of you make generalisations that all new crew coming in, whether they be generation Y, X, A, Q, P or C are all young and stupid - or come from very low customer-service backgrounds!!

I'm not going to let comments on THIS forum get me down when I'm out on line working my butt off as per the new Team Jetstar working conditions you all point out are so horrible. But I'll say it again, myself and others in my ground school all really wanted to be flight attendants and Jetstar was our way in and we took it! What's the harm in us doing that UNTIL a better offer comes along with another airline?

This is all alright for all you mainline Jetstar crew to say stuff like how dare you "cheapen the profession" by accepting these conditions, but that's because you already have ya bloody job under the Jetstar EBA. So you're all having a great time posting these horror scenarios which you say we'll probably end up working - which you're probably right in that we will - but no one's going to be able to change it. If it all becomes too much and we become burnt out well SO BE IT - those that can't handle it will pike out and try again with another airline! All I'm saying is that this opportunity has presented itself to me and I'm sure as hell gonna give it a go because I currently have nothing to lose.

There is no one aged younger than 21 in my ground school - for some of you who were saying that plucking 18 year olds straight out of school was becoming more common. We have a couple who are aged in their late 30s and one in her early 40s.

And so far we have completed 4 examinations and every single person has passed 90% or higher. No one in this ground school has bombed-out or is going out being irresponsible in the crew uniform as the picture was painted by somebody above. We all consistently arrive on-time, and infact most mornings we're all gathered in the tea room about 15-20 minutes early to relax and go over our manuals/notes.

Smartalec888, you are being hired to International by the sounds of things so perhaps the new collective agreement I was talking about is only to cover the Domestic Team Jetstar crew. And if it is just an agreement for Domestic crew then YES what has been just negotiated and voted-in does apply to all future crew hired under Team Jetstar (Domestic). International crew may still fall under the common law contract, hence why it may not be obsolete as I initially said.

Also, at our assessment centre and morning tea we also were never told about any "Team Jetstar" - all our emails and material we were sent and received on the day all stated Jetstar Airways and that's what we were led to believe we were being recruited for. They did however mention that a lot of the pay and conditions may be changing in the coming few months but that nothing had been finalised yet. That would've been Team Jetstar they were hinting at - and we were first told about it in our congratulatory phone calls when they said "we'd like to offer you a position of employment with Team Jetstar". All the information regarding this was sent in the welcome pack. Now though, I'm pretty sure all invites to recruitment days are being labelled as 'Team Jetstar short-haul/long-haul cabin crew'.

Regarding the yearly salary, just to a few who may not have factored in that domestic flying allowance, that would add to that $33.4k base salary approximately $12k based on an example in our agreement which said that on a month where a crew member works 120 duty hours there would be approximately 89 BLOCK hours worked. So overall pay for the first year, only according to that example of course, would be approx. $45.4k - a lot better than what you earn on the dole, as someone made reference to.

So my point is please don't generalise all the new recruits that are coming in, which includes myself, because that's quite offensive, and realise that a lot of us see this as our dream job and have taken the opportunity because we see this is our way into the industry - whether we survive physically at Jetstar (or Team JQ rather) is something that only time will tell - but I'm gonna give it a really good shot.
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Old 30th Dec 2007, 08:31
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May I just say that all the negatives mentioned in this thread are real, or possibly even worse, however Want2Fly! I applaud you!!! All your posts seem well thought out, mature and positive!! Good luck to you when you come out online!!
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Old 30th Dec 2007, 08:40
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Want2Fly

Lets promise each other to continue this conversation in 12 months time.
See how you feel then.
Bear this in mind.... some of the negativity in this forum will translate in to confrontation in the flying world.You'll need to be tough.The first time you complain about anything you will be verbally attacked.
Prepare yourself.
Good Luck!

Last edited by DEFCON4; 30th Dec 2007 at 08:59.
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Old 30th Dec 2007, 09:43
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This thread is about J* flying - It is not about politics, or the problems with the youth of today, or how things used to be. If you are posting and are not a J* crew member, or a wannabee, then you probably shouldn't be passing comment here - you should be doing so in D&G.
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Old 30th Dec 2007, 10:38
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Want2fly,
I sincerely wish you all the best with your career, you appear to have a positive attitude and a mature outlook on life.
They say that if you find a job that you enjoy doing, you never really have to work another day in your life.

Goodluck and good flying
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Old 30th Dec 2007, 10:53
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Yeah I agree with blokehostie and shazaam... it's not often that you have someone on PPRuNe who are able to articulate their posts in a positive, clear and concise manner.

I wish you all the best with Jetstar. I hope for your sake things aren't as bad as we've all be saying will be.

I'd hate to see the company take advantage of someone with your outlook towards the position.

A320
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Old 30th Dec 2007, 13:00
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WAITING...(patiently!)

Hey guys,
Just wondering if anyone else in here was in the Melbourne LH CC assessment group in December?
If so, did u make it thru the interviews and on to the med and security clearance round?
I made it thru the 2 interviews and had the applications in my inbox that night.. have filled them out, paid everything that needed to be paid and sent off..
I guess now its just a matter of waiting.. bummer it was so close to xmas and nye - would have to delay things a little..

Also, at the morning tea they were saying GS was going to be Feb.. possibly March.. but they were hoping feb.. does anyone know when it may be?

Would love to hear from anybody!

Good luck to anyone out there with an assessment day coming up!

Hopeful Xxx
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Old 30th Dec 2007, 22:50
  #58 (permalink)  
 
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Qantas Recruitment

Int the New Year Qantas is starting a recruitment drive...the first in 6 years.The terms and conditions are superior to Jetstar.
They will be employing 500 people by mid year.
A much better deal.
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Old 30th Dec 2007, 23:22
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Yep superior. And when u read the Qantas thread you realise you will be working with a bunch of miserable people that will no doubt make your life hell.
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Old 31st Dec 2007, 00:45
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The Minority

The people who post in the Qantas Thread are by far the minority.
Flying with the Rat is still a lot of fun.
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