EASA N reg and AOPA Latest
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HS125
Thanks for posting this as its an eye opener not just for us FAA guys but for everyone involved in aviation.
EASA does not have aviations interests at heart. That includes AOC ops who are saddled with massive costs.
With recent AS showing FAA part 135 ops to be safer than JAA OPS Shows that regulating for regulatings sake does NOT equal safety but a huge amount of cost and time.
Its about time EASA and its pen pushers were relageted to the rubbish bin where they almost went some time back!
With the UK gov talking about removing overregulating and all the quangos regulating to justify their own existance and salaries EASA is one which should head the list? Sadly is not a UK Quango but a European one.
Pace
Thanks for posting this as its an eye opener not just for us FAA guys but for everyone involved in aviation.
EASA does not have aviations interests at heart. That includes AOC ops who are saddled with massive costs.
With recent AS showing FAA part 135 ops to be safer than JAA OPS Shows that regulating for regulatings sake does NOT equal safety but a huge amount of cost and time.
Its about time EASA and its pen pushers were relageted to the rubbish bin where they almost went some time back!
With the UK gov talking about removing overregulating and all the quangos regulating to justify their own existance and salaries EASA is one which should head the list? Sadly is not a UK Quango but a European one.
Pace
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Thomas
Thanks for the E mail address I have written my own letter complaining about these unfair proposed regulations and suggest others who will be effected do so also
Pace
Thanks for the E mail address I have written my own letter complaining about these unfair proposed regulations and suggest others who will be effected do so also
Pace
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Taken from the AOPA newsletter
That is a route which does have mileage.
The fact that pilots have been flying N reg in Europe for decades legally means the practice has been firmly established and accepted within the EEC.
Should a body such as EASA regulate which stops people from going about their rightful business and through that those people are faced with massive costs and financial losses at the sweep of a pen then they can indeed sue EASA and the EC who through their regulating have caused it.
Unless EASA can show solid grounds (ie emergency safety basis)for such damaging regulations on a practice which is so established they would indeed be liable and as we know there is NO statistical data which backs a safety ground for these proposed regulations.
I refer to our strong human rights and discrimination laws which overide such bodies as EASA
Again it would be interesting to have legal opinion on compensation claims?
Pace
There will be massive compensation claims against EASA and the EC.”
That is a route which does have mileage.
The fact that pilots have been flying N reg in Europe for decades legally means the practice has been firmly established and accepted within the EEC.
Should a body such as EASA regulate which stops people from going about their rightful business and through that those people are faced with massive costs and financial losses at the sweep of a pen then they can indeed sue EASA and the EC who through their regulating have caused it.
Unless EASA can show solid grounds (ie emergency safety basis)for such damaging regulations on a practice which is so established they would indeed be liable and as we know there is NO statistical data which backs a safety ground for these proposed regulations.
I refer to our strong human rights and discrimination laws which overide such bodies as EASA
Again it would be interesting to have legal opinion on compensation claims?
Pace
Last edited by Pace; 6th Oct 2010 at 08:12.
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AOPA USA has joined the fray see Avweb below
AOPA says a new regime of rules proposed by the European Aviation Safety Agency (EASA) "has potentially devastating implications for the U.S. general aviation manufacturers and for the U.S. flight training industry." EASA intends to adopt a wide-ranging series of amendments to rules that appear to particularly affect those holding U.S. pilot certificates and aircraft registered in the U.S. but resident in Europe. "It would render FAA pilot certificates and instrument ratings issued to pilots living and operating in Europe (including U.S. citizens based in and flying in Europe) effectively worthless, requiring them to essentially start over and retrain and recertify," AOPA spokesman Chris Dancy told AVweb. "It would also eliminate any advantage to owning and operating an N-number-registered aircraft in Europe."
There are an estimated 10,000 pilots in Europe flying under U.S. certificates. Many of them got their training in the U.S. and a lot of flight schools cater specifically to European students. U.S. manufacturers will be hit from two directions. The rules will make U.S.-built aircraft "more difficult and expensive to own and operate," and therefore less attractive in Europe, a key market for most U.S. manufacturers, Dancy said. "And on that side of the Atlantic, it could mean a glut of N-number-registered aircraft being dumped on the market, further depressing used aircraft sales." AOPA has contacted members of Congress, the FAA and Department of Transportation to make sure they're aware of the issue. It's also supporting European aviation groups in their attempts to stop the action.
Pace
AOPA says a new regime of rules proposed by the European Aviation Safety Agency (EASA) "has potentially devastating implications for the U.S. general aviation manufacturers and for the U.S. flight training industry." EASA intends to adopt a wide-ranging series of amendments to rules that appear to particularly affect those holding U.S. pilot certificates and aircraft registered in the U.S. but resident in Europe. "It would render FAA pilot certificates and instrument ratings issued to pilots living and operating in Europe (including U.S. citizens based in and flying in Europe) effectively worthless, requiring them to essentially start over and retrain and recertify," AOPA spokesman Chris Dancy told AVweb. "It would also eliminate any advantage to owning and operating an N-number-registered aircraft in Europe."
There are an estimated 10,000 pilots in Europe flying under U.S. certificates. Many of them got their training in the U.S. and a lot of flight schools cater specifically to European students. U.S. manufacturers will be hit from two directions. The rules will make U.S.-built aircraft "more difficult and expensive to own and operate," and therefore less attractive in Europe, a key market for most U.S. manufacturers, Dancy said. "And on that side of the Atlantic, it could mean a glut of N-number-registered aircraft being dumped on the market, further depressing used aircraft sales." AOPA has contacted members of Congress, the FAA and Department of Transportation to make sure they're aware of the issue. It's also supporting European aviation groups in their attempts to stop the action.
Pace
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I noticed this in another thread. The link enables you to find, and then immediately email your local MEP's.
http://www.writetothem.com
If you are concerned about this issue, then these are the people who will be voting on the matter. Let them know your views
http://www.writetothem.com
If you are concerned about this issue, then these are the people who will be voting on the matter. Let them know your views
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Many true things have been said in this topic.
EASA nor anyone in Brussel have aviation interests at heart.
And as Aerial Chauffeur said: "still annoyed that some daft motherf*ckers in Brussels want to 'fix' something in Europe that really isn't broken."
I use to fly in France, and I just left to Australia, hoping it will be different.
And if I have 1 great fear, it's that someday it'll be the same everywhere
So if I could say one thing to all fellow pilots it would be look out !!!
For the love of god look what they've done to us..
I know I can sound a little too much.. but in the end I really mean that..
soooo many little examples...
They wanna kill general aviation.Even if it's a beautifull thing...it's just too good for them...if we could all just stay home and watch some TV they'd be really happy!
It's too late in France but I hope you guys all over the world will never let your country become a big bunch of whiners who kill everything that's out of their reach...
Oh and don't get me wrong... I love France...there are some magical things and some amazing people there.. just too few left
Edit: In a way we should have seen it coming.Pilots with a FAA IR (that you can get in France after 3 days of ground school) flying same planes in same conditions than pilots who spend months in ground schools to get their JAA IR..It's just...out of the blue
So instead of just realising that their training is
, well they just get the smart ones off the air.So they think they still are the best.They just love lying to themselves..
And yeah no more Americain planes in Europe too.Yeah instead let's just buy cheap pasteboard electric chineses planes.The masses will be sooo happy with this pseudo ecological achievement
The roof,the roof,the roof is on fire....
EASA nor anyone in Brussel have aviation interests at heart.
And as Aerial Chauffeur said: "still annoyed that some daft motherf*ckers in Brussels want to 'fix' something in Europe that really isn't broken."
I use to fly in France, and I just left to Australia, hoping it will be different.
And if I have 1 great fear, it's that someday it'll be the same everywhere
So if I could say one thing to all fellow pilots it would be look out !!!
For the love of god look what they've done to us..
I know I can sound a little too much.. but in the end I really mean that..
soooo many little examples...
They wanna kill general aviation.Even if it's a beautifull thing...it's just too good for them...if we could all just stay home and watch some TV they'd be really happy!
It's too late in France but I hope you guys all over the world will never let your country become a big bunch of whiners who kill everything that's out of their reach...
Oh and don't get me wrong... I love France...there are some magical things and some amazing people there.. just too few left
Edit: In a way we should have seen it coming.Pilots with a FAA IR (that you can get in France after 3 days of ground school) flying same planes in same conditions than pilots who spend months in ground schools to get their JAA IR..It's just...out of the blue
So instead of just realising that their training is
, well they just get the smart ones off the air.So they think they still are the best.They just love lying to themselves..And yeah no more Americain planes in Europe too.Yeah instead let's just buy cheap pasteboard electric chineses planes.The masses will be sooo happy with this pseudo ecological achievement
The roof,the roof,the roof is on fire....
Last edited by Turban; 6th Oct 2010 at 23:28.
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Same guy but his e-mail at the CAA if you want it is [email protected]
Might as well send your emails to him there too.
Might as well send your emails to him there too.
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Pilots with a FAA IR (that you can get in France after 3 days of ground school)
In my FAA IR the flying, mostly partial panel with timed turns, was by far the hardest flying I have ever done in my life. The checkride was totally PP, with an intensity far above anything one might ever do for real.
I was a good instrument pilot already, with 500hrs TT, and it still took 2 solid exhausting weeks in Arizona to reach the IR checkride standard.
You also get the oral before the checkride. Most JAA candidates, having swatted through the exams and forgotten most of the garbage straight away, would dread an oral exam. It can be 1hr but many done here in Europe are much longer. My FAA IR one was 2-3hrs and my CPL one was half a day. It was no problem because I fly "for real" but many would find this pretty hard work.
Anyway, I am very pleased that the heavy metal crowd here has finally got their heads out of the sand where they were firmly stuck for the last few years. Some serious lobbying should finally be happening
EASA were hoping to sneak this one in...
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I have FAA and JAA licence, and fly a privatley owned Challenger.
The aircraft is owned by a US corporation and N-registered. I am a European citizen resident here. And our aircraft stayes a lot of the time in Europe (but officially based in US)
Now to my question: if EASA will have there way....does that mean if I would like to keep my job I have to persuade my boss to register the aircraft in the EASA land??
The aircraft is owned by a US corporation and N-registered. I am a European citizen resident here. And our aircraft stayes a lot of the time in Europe (but officially based in US)
Now to my question: if EASA will have there way....does that mean if I would like to keep my job I have to persuade my boss to register the aircraft in the EASA land??
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No! If you hold both FAA and EASA compliant licences you are laughing.
The arguement is based on N reg based in Europe where the operator (whatever that means) is also based in Europe then the pilots must hold equivalent EASA licences to fly that N reg.
EASA will accept a third country type rating.
The crazy thing about this is that there are NO safety issues between the two ATP licences so EASA cannot say that we wish you to hold EASA licences on safety grounds.
As to wanting control those EASA licences have no relevance or standing on an N reg jet.
If there is an accident its the FAA who will be involved not EASA.
Crazy world
Pace
No! If you hold both FAA and EASA compliant licences you are laughing.
The arguement is based on N reg based in Europe where the operator (whatever that means) is also based in Europe then the pilots must hold equivalent EASA licences to fly that N reg.
EASA will accept a third country type rating.
The crazy thing about this is that there are NO safety issues between the two ATP licences so EASA cannot say that we wish you to hold EASA licences on safety grounds.
As to wanting control those EASA licences have no relevance or standing on an N reg jet.
If there is an accident its the FAA who will be involved not EASA.
Crazy world
Pace
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Not quite as rosy as you might think for those of us with both FAA and JAA licences. You'll still have the costly compliance with both systems.
Best we stop any of the traditional factionalisation that we normally find in this business and work (hard) together to kill this.
Jeff
Best we stop any of the traditional factionalisation that we normally find in this business and work (hard) together to kill this.
Jeff
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IO540 I was actually just talking about the GS
I know there is some flight to do.And that's Ok with me of course
My point was,thatin any way the JAA IR requires waayyyyy more GS than FAA's.
So if FAA's requires less, does that mean that it's bad? No of course !
Then what's with the extra GS in Europe ? Well, simply put, it's just rubbish !
That was my point
And when you ask how they will justify it...well that's the beauty of it...they'll never really do it. As far as they are concerned, it's just best for you guys.
Because yeah, they do know what's better for you !
Cheers
I know there is some flight to do.And that's Ok with me of course
My point was,thatin any way the JAA IR requires waayyyyy more GS than FAA's.
So if FAA's requires less, does that mean that it's bad? No of course !
Then what's with the extra GS in Europe ? Well, simply put, it's just rubbish !
That was my point
And when you ask how they will justify it...well that's the beauty of it...they'll never really do it. As far as they are concerned, it's just best for you guys.
Because yeah, they do know what's better for you !
Cheers
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How loud is the silence ?
In reply to shell and mid......silence does seem to have descended across the thread with relation to the differences in medical requirements for FAA..or is it my imagination?
I know at least 3 pilots who continue to fly N reg, as EU citizens, on FAA simply because they cant get their medical renewed in EU...
so no safety issues then??
I know at least 3 pilots who continue to fly N reg, as EU citizens, on FAA simply because they cant get their medical renewed in EU...
so no safety issues then??
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In reply to deskjockey101, there are no safety issues because none have been shown to exist when comparing EASA (JAA) and FAA. If EASA required 10,000 hours to hold a ATPL one could argue that its safer. The fact that certain medical issues are accepted by one and not the other with no documented evidence of incident or accident is academic. If what you imply is in any way near the truth, all FAA flights into Europe should be suspended imediately, not just the guy's who are resident in the EU. I say again, its purely financial protectionism for the training industry.