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QUOTE "Right team, Right business idea, Right aircraft policy, Right customer service policy...................................Wrong economic climate!"
Wow that's not really a bold statement given we will never know the real answers but...
The right aircraft policy????
Jesus, it was only the right aircraft policy in so much as it was the saving grace of the Lear 60 line for Bombardier and the discounts would have been gigantic!
How long will it take the OEM to close the line I wonder? I'll give it 6 months max! And OK OK, I'm the bringer of gloom and doom again for the bizjet industry........
Wow that's not really a bold statement given we will never know the real answers but...
The right aircraft policy????
Jesus, it was only the right aircraft policy in so much as it was the saving grace of the Lear 60 line for Bombardier and the discounts would have been gigantic!
How long will it take the OEM to close the line I wonder? I'll give it 6 months max! And OK OK, I'm the bringer of gloom and doom again for the bizjet industry........
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When their website opened with the immortal words:...
The revolution has begun
[FONT='Arial','sans-serif']Jet Republic is a new state. It's a new way of operating, a new way of thinking. Ultimately, it's a new way to navigate the world[/FONT]
...you wonder who's pulling whose whatsit?
5 statements about their new venture - not one contributing to the client's understanding of the product. Who breeds these marketeers? Whatever happened to plain English?
Looking back none of those statements apply: the management just look silly. One wonders if the backers did any due diligence on the management before handing over their investment. Hardly the stuff of Dragons Den...
A little thought would have saved a lot of heartache and embarrassment: - when you invade the market, avoid stirring the lion (Netjets); it is his pitch, at the end of the day!
- carve out a little niche before telling the rest of the industry how bad they are, and how good you are going to be
- a touch of humility goes a long way
- anyone can spend other people's hard earned money; but it takes a lot more than money to generate a new sales revenue stream
And No, there was no revolution, nor does the industry or the clients need one.
Next time think before you screw up the market and many other people's lives. Just because you have taken money off unwary investors, doesn't mean you can lose all touch with reality without hurting others.
The revolution has begun
[FONT='Arial','sans-serif']Jet Republic is a new state. It's a new way of operating, a new way of thinking. Ultimately, it's a new way to navigate the world[/FONT]
...you wonder who's pulling whose whatsit?
5 statements about their new venture - not one contributing to the client's understanding of the product. Who breeds these marketeers? Whatever happened to plain English?
Looking back none of those statements apply: the management just look silly. One wonders if the backers did any due diligence on the management before handing over their investment. Hardly the stuff of Dragons Den...
A little thought would have saved a lot of heartache and embarrassment: - when you invade the market, avoid stirring the lion (Netjets); it is his pitch, at the end of the day!
- carve out a little niche before telling the rest of the industry how bad they are, and how good you are going to be
- a touch of humility goes a long way
- anyone can spend other people's hard earned money; but it takes a lot more than money to generate a new sales revenue stream
And No, there was no revolution, nor does the industry or the clients need one.
Next time think before you screw up the market and many other people's lives. Just because you have taken money off unwary investors, doesn't mean you can lose all touch with reality without hurting others.
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It is soooooooo typical. If there is a lot of bluff involved , it always goes wrong. Reminds me of this dutch company, bikkair. Had the pretence to claim that they would be one of the biggest vlj operators in europe. Had only 2 of them and the rest was history. Now it's JR's turn. Why do starting companies always think in terms of quantity instead of quality??????? I agree that there is always risky part involved but is there a serious research be done?? Do they research the market if there is really demand for this product etc.
I'm now just wondering which is going to be the next!!!
I'm now just wondering which is going to be the next!!!
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LGW vulture
JR had a bit more to the aircraft policy than the Lear 60, part of the package was management of customer travel on other bizjets if the Lear did not fit the bill for that particular mission.
There was a lot more to JR than cool black Lear 60's and coffee makers.
A lot of people are going to slagg off JR because the pprune rat pack has all the answers with its 20/20 hindsight, I just feel for those without a job today.
There was a lot more to JR than cool black Lear 60's and coffee makers.
A lot of people are going to slagg off JR because the pprune rat pack has all the answers with its 20/20 hindsight, I just feel for those without a job today.
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It is not hindsight, a lot of experienced people in this sector were unsure about this company and its claims. They have been shown to be correct. And it is no good bleating about this and that attitude on here, the CEO was a loud mouth and was generally insulting.
It is a shame because it would have meant more sector employment if only for the select few Piloting Gods and miniature cabin crew amongst us
I know the Customer Services Director and he is a very smart guy. Maybe they would have had a chance if the US bankers hadn't screwed everyone but using the Lear?? No
And the idea of offering other aircraft if the Lear wasn't going to work for a particular client turns them into just another rip-off Broker taking their cut from the operator and putting their own Lear crew out of work.
Oh and there are lots of other people without jobs........
It is a shame because it would have meant more sector employment if only for the select few Piloting Gods and miniature cabin crew amongst us
I know the Customer Services Director and he is a very smart guy. Maybe they would have had a chance if the US bankers hadn't screwed everyone but using the Lear?? No
And the idea of offering other aircraft if the Lear wasn't going to work for a particular client turns them into just another rip-off Broker taking their cut from the operator and putting their own Lear crew out of work.
Oh and there are lots of other people without jobs........
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Risk takers and entrepreneurs are so often treated as failures when their business fail in Europe. Well done to all those at the core of Jet Republic for giving it a go. The PrivateFly.com team know how hard it is to launch a new brand in the current climate and we wish all the Jet Republic staff the best of luck in finding new jobs. Our doors are open to innovative guys like you.
But seriously I comment you for starting an online broker, another great niche. The only thing is you should use the Avinodetool as CharterX does not have the right number of operators of European opertors available IMHO 
Can we go back now to slagging of JR instead of promoting your own business on here.
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James
I haven't said a adverse word about JR, so please dont try to hit me around the head with other peoples offerings but....
The point you are trying to make about the quality of the business plan by demonstrating that a load of investors thought it a good one and more laughably that Bombardier thought it was a good idea is imho laughable.
A) The side of the road is littered with some serious investors who have lost cumulatively billions of dollars, being taken in with the sexy opportunity to make money out of aviation from Netjets to Dayjet its right there - And this was before a global financial crisis - what chance JR?? Pilots and aviation enthusiasts and management should be banned from entering the City of London with a laptop with powerpoint on it
B) Bombardier had signed deposited orders for 25 Aircraft - thats more than enough to "put a line" back into production, Cessna have the C750 jigs in a lockup somewhere..... they'll make room and make one tomorrow if I sign an order and send them some money.
yes they probably wanted to examine the business plan but were they really going to say no assuming that the on costs of pre production were covered by deposits. How could they say no? They have got to be in it to win it, they were probably treating the option element of the order as gravy if it happened.
Regardless of the above they went swimming in very stormy waters, despite the red flag on the beach with these unfortunate results.
Good luck to all the JR staff in finding employment ASAP
I haven't said a adverse word about JR, so please dont try to hit me around the head with other peoples offerings but....
The point you are trying to make about the quality of the business plan by demonstrating that a load of investors thought it a good one and more laughably that Bombardier thought it was a good idea is imho laughable.
A) The side of the road is littered with some serious investors who have lost cumulatively billions of dollars, being taken in with the sexy opportunity to make money out of aviation from Netjets to Dayjet its right there - And this was before a global financial crisis - what chance JR?? Pilots and aviation enthusiasts and management should be banned from entering the City of London with a laptop with powerpoint on it
B) Bombardier had signed deposited orders for 25 Aircraft - thats more than enough to "put a line" back into production, Cessna have the C750 jigs in a lockup somewhere..... they'll make room and make one tomorrow if I sign an order and send them some money.
yes they probably wanted to examine the business plan but were they really going to say no assuming that the on costs of pre production were covered by deposits. How could they say no? They have got to be in it to win it, they were probably treating the option element of the order as gravy if it happened.
Regardless of the above they went swimming in very stormy waters, despite the red flag on the beach with these unfortunate results.
Good luck to all the JR staff in finding employment ASAP
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A + C
Quote:
A lot of people are going to slagg off JR because the PPRuNe rat pack has all the answers with its 20/20 hindsight.
You still do not get it do you? The PPRuNe rat pack, as you so kindly descibe them, do NOT have 20/20 hindsight they do HAVE 20/20 foresight...........get into reality.
Quote:
A lot of people are going to slagg off JR because the PPRuNe rat pack has all the answers with its 20/20 hindsight.
You still do not get it do you? The PPRuNe rat pack, as you so kindly descibe them, do NOT have 20/20 hindsight they do HAVE 20/20 foresight...........get into reality.
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Janes
What are you talking about? What do you mean by "working for a boss" I am toally baffled but I supose that is how one gets after working for oneself for 35 years.
What are you talking about? What do you mean by "working for a boss" I am toally baffled but I supose that is how one gets after working for oneself for 35 years.
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James - This is a wild idea, but perhaps after 35 years hawker750 is still running his business because he enjoys it?! Radical thought I know - but worth considering. Having known him for many years, I would trust his judgement on many matters relating to aviation - he has far more experience in this industry than you give him credit for - think on.
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Quote:
20/20 foresight you could be sitting on some tropical beach sipping cocktails.
James you are arrogant, and it appears you epitomise all that is wrong with certain elements of this industry, all bull and very little knowledge. If you think the pinnacle of most peoples' achievements is to sip cocktails on some tropical beach then I suggest you go and join them, you will undoubtably enjoy their company.
20/20 foresight you could be sitting on some tropical beach sipping cocktails.
James you are arrogant, and it appears you epitomise all that is wrong with certain elements of this industry, all bull and very little knowledge. If you think the pinnacle of most peoples' achievements is to sip cocktails on some tropical beach then I suggest you go and join them, you will undoubtably enjoy their company.
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A lot of people are going to slagg off JR because the PPRuNe rat pack has all the answers with its 20/20 hindsight, I just feel for those without a job today.
1) I don't have answers. I never did. I do and did have questions.
2) 20/20 hindsight? Nope. Not hindsight. Like many here in this thread, I had those questions earlier this year. Specifically, on 27 February 2009, I posted the following in this thread:
1) existing companies have made huge investments and are only barely making a profit.
2) only one type of aircraft limits customers.
3) long landing distance of selected type limits available runways.
4) terrible time to raise the large amounts of money required.
5) demand for private jets is dropping with the economy.
If NetJets is having a rough go of it, what makes these guys likely to do it better?
2) only one type of aircraft limits customers.
3) long landing distance of selected type limits available runways.
4) terrible time to raise the large amounts of money required.
5) demand for private jets is dropping with the economy.
If NetJets is having a rough go of it, what makes these guys likely to do it better?
I always ask myself the question: How did these people become such wealthy investors in the first place, if they are apparently so stupid?
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Jams,
You think you know about me and my business, I am afraid I am a little in the dark as to your experience and qualifications. For all our readers, who I assume are having as good a laugh as me at your rants, tell us about yourself, your aviation triumphs for a start would do.
Oh, by the way I am sorry I did not reply to your recent job application, it got trashed before I could even get to it.
You think you know about me and my business, I am afraid I am a little in the dark as to your experience and qualifications. For all our readers, who I assume are having as good a laugh as me at your rants, tell us about yourself, your aviation triumphs for a start would do.
Oh, by the way I am sorry I did not reply to your recent job application, it got trashed before I could even get to it.
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Earth calling James
James
JR failed.... end of story... nuff said? whether we said 'told you do or not, its bombed.
what was it Yoda said? "there is no try?.....only do..." (apologies to George Lucas) a degree of risk management/assessment is crucial in business planning and JR had risk in their model off the scale.....
Re us 'experienced types getting together, we already did! its called the successful aircraft management business model where multiple operators of diverse types operator commercially and sell time direct to consumers and through third parties..... its called mutually beneficial cooperation.
some operators may whinge about brokers and vice versa, pilots may not like management and vice versa, but at the end of the day we are all doing a bloody good job together for our clients, long term. its a marriage and we make it work. (Lets not slag each other off too much pls, we have a lot to be proud of)
we have operators, owners, brokers, travel agents, and clients who have worked seamlessly to create our industry over the last 40 odd years. It works :-)
the only person sipping a cocktail on a beach right now is probably the ex head of JR...... me? im at my desk along with al the other people who make our industry work long term for aircraft owners and clients :-)
JR failed.... end of story... nuff said? whether we said 'told you do or not, its bombed.
what was it Yoda said? "there is no try?.....only do..." (apologies to George Lucas) a degree of risk management/assessment is crucial in business planning and JR had risk in their model off the scale.....
Re us 'experienced types getting together, we already did! its called the successful aircraft management business model where multiple operators of diverse types operator commercially and sell time direct to consumers and through third parties..... its called mutually beneficial cooperation.
some operators may whinge about brokers and vice versa, pilots may not like management and vice versa, but at the end of the day we are all doing a bloody good job together for our clients, long term. its a marriage and we make it work. (Lets not slag each other off too much pls, we have a lot to be proud of)
we have operators, owners, brokers, travel agents, and clients who have worked seamlessly to create our industry over the last 40 odd years. It works :-)
the only person sipping a cocktail on a beach right now is probably the ex head of JR...... me? im at my desk along with al the other people who make our industry work long term for aircraft owners and clients :-)
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As entertaining as it is 
, why do these posts always end up turning into a slagging match? It's not worth fighting about!
I have to say though James...we are still wondering! If your aren't Superman or Spiderman, who are you?
, why do these posts always end up turning into a slagging match? It's not worth fighting about!I have to say though James...we are still wondering! If your aren't Superman or Spiderman, who are you?
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Master Yoda
"Do, or do not. There is no try".
"Do, or do not. There is no try".
As I said, NJE are alive and JR are not. One can look at their program and try and take the positives out of it and learn from the negatives. One can lambast JR one every point. One can defend them to the hilt. Both miss a golden opportunity to learn if they don't consider the other side of the arguement.
If you're intelligent and thoughtful and feel you truely understand the situation, pass on your insight. What did JR do right AND what did JR do wrong. Link your generalisations with specifics. Prove the topic, not whether or not you can sling more mud at another chap.
Any takers?
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OFBSLF & hawker 750
Thank you for your veiws, but I stand my my hindsight comments, the first that I knew about JR was about four years back when I bumped into one of the directors who was flying one of my aircraft.
As I seem to remember about that time we were all surfing the crest of an economic wave, Gordon Brown's "no return to boom & bust" was still credable and all was looking good on the economic front.
So what did you have to say at that time OFBSLF ? I think that your predictions from Feb 2009 are very accurate but not very hard to make given the change of economic climate between the launch of this project over four years back and Feb this year.
At the time the JR project was launched ( I would guess about five years back for the intial idea) it was no doubt viable but the harsh reality of the economic downturn and the long time required to get the new aircraft online resulted in the launch of a business into a totaly different economic world.
I'm sure that a lot of good business ideas have gone to the wall in these hard economic times through on fault of their own, with perfect foresight no doubt some could have been saved, but what I can't understand is that with the foresight that is shown on this forum why we are not all national lottery millionairs?
As I seem to remember about that time we were all surfing the crest of an economic wave, Gordon Brown's "no return to boom & bust" was still credable and all was looking good on the economic front.
So what did you have to say at that time OFBSLF ? I think that your predictions from Feb 2009 are very accurate but not very hard to make given the change of economic climate between the launch of this project over four years back and Feb this year.
At the time the JR project was launched ( I would guess about five years back for the intial idea) it was no doubt viable but the harsh reality of the economic downturn and the long time required to get the new aircraft online resulted in the launch of a business into a totaly different economic world.
I'm sure that a lot of good business ideas have gone to the wall in these hard economic times through on fault of their own, with perfect foresight no doubt some could have been saved, but what I can't understand is that with the foresight that is shown on this forum why we are not all national lottery millionairs?
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timeline confusion
timeline?
i dont think it has such a long history
4 years back JB was working for netjets i think? and then he moved on to air partner for a year or so, so i think you have your timeline mixed up.....
therefore this project was conceived and put in place in quite a short timeframe i would say...imho
and didnt the press call it possibly the worst timed product launch in history at one point in 2008?
i dont think it has such a long history
4 years back JB was working for netjets i think? and then he moved on to air partner for a year or so, so i think you have your timeline mixed up.....
therefore this project was conceived and put in place in quite a short timeframe i would say...imho
and didnt the press call it possibly the worst timed product launch in history at one point in 2008?