Blink
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Highflight.
There are few enough investors in this area of Industry. If they are duped into investing in puff and spin it gives the industry a reputation of high risk. As a pilot you condone this sort of practice in an arena that you should be looking for stability given the number of airlines throwing pilots back in the pool?
Go to Google, put in any aircraft registration and in 1 minute you have a good idea of what it has been doing, you hardly need a team of spotters.
Best of luck to these guys, but lets play with a straight bat shall we and not publish PR figures and grandiose statements that simply are not true in an effort to back up their claims that there is anything new about Blink, it's simply another entry level jet start-up.
Phil
There are few enough investors in this area of Industry. If they are duped into investing in puff and spin it gives the industry a reputation of high risk. As a pilot you condone this sort of practice in an arena that you should be looking for stability given the number of airlines throwing pilots back in the pool?
Go to Google, put in any aircraft registration and in 1 minute you have a good idea of what it has been doing, you hardly need a team of spotters.
Best of luck to these guys, but lets play with a straight bat shall we and not publish PR figures and grandiose statements that simply are not true in an effort to back up their claims that there is anything new about Blink, it's simply another entry level jet start-up.
Phil
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Bfato - to date they only have one aircraft in revenue-making service. If you can call it that...
Correct me if i'm wrong - but the last I heard was that they weren't selling to brokers. By not doing this surely your missing out on a large chunk of market and at least getting your aircraft out there more? Oh wait, 12hrs utilisation a day...obviously don't need it.
Correct me if i'm wrong - but the last I heard was that they weren't selling to brokers. By not doing this surely your missing out on a large chunk of market and at least getting your aircraft out there more? Oh wait, 12hrs utilisation a day...obviously don't need it.
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I can't be bothered to go back through the threads, but I am sure that Blink were planning to have around 20 A/C on line by now......they have one....which DOESN'T operate 12 hours a day and when it does fly has been sold cheaper than a piston twin. And what's this quoting without landing fees? - What is the end user to go the airport office and pay this himself then?
Many of us have been in the business for long enough to know a dead duck when we see one. This one is quacking, has webbed feet, and a bill.....yeap it's a duck, and it won't quack for long.
These rather splendid young men have managed to get rather a lot of other peoples money to fund a business plan that was always destined to fail. It's people like this, and their irresponsible investors that have caused such a financial mess around the globe. It also detracts financial investors from investing in more sound operations within our industry.
Highflight, why do you feel it necessary to gush at their awesome business plan and incredible market vision when in reality they only way they will fly is at a loss. We could all do that without wasting other peoples money. Yes they have employed pilots, who no doubt funded their own training, and will soon be in the queue behind the XL pilots.
At least the economic slump should wash away some of these dreamers.
FNPL
Many of us have been in the business for long enough to know a dead duck when we see one. This one is quacking, has webbed feet, and a bill.....yeap it's a duck, and it won't quack for long.
These rather splendid young men have managed to get rather a lot of other peoples money to fund a business plan that was always destined to fail. It's people like this, and their irresponsible investors that have caused such a financial mess around the globe. It also detracts financial investors from investing in more sound operations within our industry.
Highflight, why do you feel it necessary to gush at their awesome business plan and incredible market vision when in reality they only way they will fly is at a loss. We could all do that without wasting other peoples money. Yes they have employed pilots, who no doubt funded their own training, and will soon be in the queue behind the XL pilots.
At least the economic slump should wash away some of these dreamers.
FNPL
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Flynow,
I think the delivery schedule is as planned, their "revolutionary" pricing is a simple future differential model as per Herb Kelleher et al. It's just a dumbed down version of what any decent commercial team do, it needs some tweaking to better reflect the relationship between fixed and variable costs, but at the moment they are too cheap on less desirable flying and too expensive on more desirable routes that afford a greater chance of backhaul opportunities. With the current model think they will be lucky to get more than 450 hours per airframe.
Don't forget they are a startup and therefore have to bed in and find the niche that they want to work in and adjust their pricing policy accordingly. Everything reaches it's equilibrium and Blink's pricing will soon be inline with everyone else as their understanding of the various market sectors grow. The problems will come if they don't adapt to a more market / cost base approach. Given the dynamism and size of the operation I'd be surpised if they don't catch on pretty quickly, it shouldn't take long before they realise that they are mimics as opposed to innovators and stop insulting the already profficient operators with their PR bluff.
Phil
I think the delivery schedule is as planned, their "revolutionary" pricing is a simple future differential model as per Herb Kelleher et al. It's just a dumbed down version of what any decent commercial team do, it needs some tweaking to better reflect the relationship between fixed and variable costs, but at the moment they are too cheap on less desirable flying and too expensive on more desirable routes that afford a greater chance of backhaul opportunities. With the current model think they will be lucky to get more than 450 hours per airframe.
Don't forget they are a startup and therefore have to bed in and find the niche that they want to work in and adjust their pricing policy accordingly. Everything reaches it's equilibrium and Blink's pricing will soon be inline with everyone else as their understanding of the various market sectors grow. The problems will come if they don't adapt to a more market / cost base approach. Given the dynamism and size of the operation I'd be surpised if they don't catch on pretty quickly, it shouldn't take long before they realise that they are mimics as opposed to innovators and stop insulting the already profficient operators with their PR bluff.
Phil
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Originally Posted by flynowpaylater
Yes they have employed pilot's, who no doubt funded there own training, and will soon be in the queue behind the XL pilots.
The company paid for the type ratings. New aeroplanes generally come with the cost of these included.
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The body of negative comments being thrown around here astounds me, why in this industry nowadays have we become such a bunch of whining guys who like nothing better than to complain about the job market and how nothing is being done to help the pilots out there but at the same time bash a company looking to eventually offer hundreds of jobs. My view is that they have the correct market, with an average of just over 2 pax on a corporate jet and a sector time of between 1 -1.5 hours then the Mustang makes perfect sense, it is a much cheaper airframe to purchase and the running cost are cheaper then the other aircraft available. Just lay off the company, stop trying to shoot them before anything has even gone wrong, I will gladly hold my hands up and say I was wrong if it doesn't work out but until that time (if ever) please stop this bitching and whining which has turned PPrune from a credible source to a forum for tired pilots to moan. This was to nobody in particular, just give the start up a chance, I for one wish Blink all the best in this industry
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That is not the point I was trying to make, that was only included in the last few posts. The point I am trying to make is that ever since this thread started people have been bashing the company, before it even started operating in many cases. A company has to start somewhere remember and it helps nobody's case to bash it straight away before its even had a chance to get it's footing.
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we become such a bunch of whining guys who like nothing better than to complain about the job market and how nothing is being done to help the pilots out there but at the same time bash a company looking to eventually offer hundreds of jobs.
My view is that they have the correct market, with an average of just over 2 pax on a corporate jet and a sector time of between 1 -1.5 hours then the Mustang makes perfect sense,
There are a lot of outfits fishing in the same sea and unless the amount of passengers wishing to fly airtaxi does not rise significantly, than the hundreds of jobs will be created on one side but also be slashed on the other.
We have seen a great uprise in air charter and fleet, but I predict it wont last.
Altought as a pilot I really want it to last...
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Dingbat
Yes quite right we should wish them well and I do. I think Phil has a point though as do you. They have a credibility issue though, they are making wild claims which fly in the face of the current market/financial climate/common sense.
Its difficult to wish them well when they come out with this BS
Just for the record I do wish them all the very best, me - I'm still waiting to see how they pan out, will they start selling undelivered airframes and perhaps more importantly will I get a straightforward answer to the 12 hour utilisation question I politely posed to highflight a few days ago.
12 hour days in a citation... the bloody thing would fall to pieces.
Yes quite right we should wish them well and I do. I think Phil has a point though as do you. They have a credibility issue though, they are making wild claims which fly in the face of the current market/financial climate/common sense.
Its difficult to wish them well when they come out with this BS
Just for the record I do wish them all the very best, me - I'm still waiting to see how they pan out, will they start selling undelivered airframes and perhaps more importantly will I get a straightforward answer to the 12 hour utilisation question I politely posed to highflight a few days ago.
12 hour days in a citation... the bloody thing would fall to pieces.
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If cadburys bring out a new chocolate bar, who is the innovator, Cadbury's, the sweet shop or the guy that eats one?
To be fair, I haven't seen anyone questioning JetBirds plans which seem pretty balanced and in comparison target reasonable utilisation with honesty.
There is a difference between wishing someones downfall and simply predicting it. Personally I think that Blink will do OK, but will change it's speed of expansion and price structure as we all do with the ebb and flow of demand, we're all the same really - and that's the bugbear, it's not a new industry, just a new aircraft.
Phil
To be fair, I haven't seen anyone questioning JetBirds plans which seem pretty balanced and in comparison target reasonable utilisation with honesty.
There is a difference between wishing someones downfall and simply predicting it. Personally I think that Blink will do OK, but will change it's speed of expansion and price structure as we all do with the ebb and flow of demand, we're all the same really - and that's the bugbear, it's not a new industry, just a new aircraft.
Phil
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Personally I think that Blink will do OK, but will change it's speed of expansion and price structure
Dingbat - it is unlikely that people will come on this forum to congratulate each other. That's what the BACA's for. We are all expressing our opinions. A lot of those opinions are based upon many years in the industry. If I wanted to blindly support something just because it looks good, I'll support Spurs!
On the Blink issue though, basically I believe the concept is flawed because they seem to think that the only competition is Net Jets and Air Partner (Gold Air). The fact is that they are effectively going to have to scrap it out with the many independent biz jet and air taxi operators out there, all of whom have their own established customer base, including brokers, who in turn have their customer base.
I just can't see that they will achieve the market share they require, or indeed generate enough extra business, currently not in the charter market to make it work.
With only one type, they cannot offer customer A, (who last week had 2 pax to GVA, but now has 6 to NCE). any option. So customer retention / loyalty will be difficult.
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FlyNow,
If I had blindly followed the same business plan I had 5 years ago I would still have a Caravan 1 sitting in my hangar costing me a fortune. Plans change and adapt as buying trends and the company's knowledge base changes.
Do I think that Blink can find profitable business for 35 Mustangs - No. If I'm proved right they can simply roll over the mustang options into a broader fleet and adjust the plans as required. If I'm proved wrong then I've just burnt the job offer Bridge.
No-one can blame anyone for coming up with a business plan and chasing it....but I think the PR machine is working outside ethical levels of spin which is getting peoples backs up.
Phil
If I had blindly followed the same business plan I had 5 years ago I would still have a Caravan 1 sitting in my hangar costing me a fortune. Plans change and adapt as buying trends and the company's knowledge base changes.
Do I think that Blink can find profitable business for 35 Mustangs - No. If I'm proved right they can simply roll over the mustang options into a broader fleet and adjust the plans as required. If I'm proved wrong then I've just burnt the job offer Bridge.
No-one can blame anyone for coming up with a business plan and chasing it....but I think the PR machine is working outside ethical levels of spin which is getting peoples backs up.
Phil
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flynowpaylater is right:
surely this is a one trick pony; the pony looks cute, and it does the trick just as you expect. The issue we all should debate is whether there are enough clients who are completely satisfied with that one trick.
The lesson from the industry over the longer term is that clients upgrade, migrate, and soon tire of one model. They want to go further, faster, longer, and one wonders whether Blink & co can keep enough of their clients satisfied long enough to reach breakeven (whenever that may be...!) before they tire of it.
If clients were satisfied by a one trick pony, wouldn't NetJets Europe be offering a one-type fleet today? Skyjet/VistaJet, AP, most operators, and all brokers offer clients choice across the range. In the end we all aspire to upgrade our cars, houses, class of travel, whatever, so how long before a new Mustang user today sees a CJ2 and dreams of all that space, then finds out that the price premium is negligible?
And won't the crew do the same...?
surely this is a one trick pony; the pony looks cute, and it does the trick just as you expect. The issue we all should debate is whether there are enough clients who are completely satisfied with that one trick.
The lesson from the industry over the longer term is that clients upgrade, migrate, and soon tire of one model. They want to go further, faster, longer, and one wonders whether Blink & co can keep enough of their clients satisfied long enough to reach breakeven (whenever that may be...!) before they tire of it.
If clients were satisfied by a one trick pony, wouldn't NetJets Europe be offering a one-type fleet today? Skyjet/VistaJet, AP, most operators, and all brokers offer clients choice across the range. In the end we all aspire to upgrade our cars, houses, class of travel, whatever, so how long before a new Mustang user today sees a CJ2 and dreams of all that space, then finds out that the price premium is negligible?
And won't the crew do the same...?
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Dingbat2407,
Like you I despair of the attitude in this industry, I give up but thank my lucky stars I dont work for companies some of these people on here represent.
FlyNowPayLater,
What a miserable individual you are with a very weak grasp of the present economic situation.Thank god I'm unlikely to end up sitting with you in a cockpit assuming you actually fly for a living.
As regards aircraft deliveries no publication has ever mentioned 20 deliveries in 2008,you just need to be a little bit better read and not rely on dodgy publications for your info.
For my part and especially in light of all the negative comments on this site I wish Blink every success for a bright future.
Phil as I've said before if you spent less time on PPRune and Googling aircraft movements maybe you could be searching out that elusive finance that apparently Blink are extracting from these poor unfortunate investors. Maybe they simply put together an impressive business plan that attracted the necessary finance.
Like you I despair of the attitude in this industry, I give up but thank my lucky stars I dont work for companies some of these people on here represent.
FlyNowPayLater,
What a miserable individual you are with a very weak grasp of the present economic situation.Thank god I'm unlikely to end up sitting with you in a cockpit assuming you actually fly for a living.
As regards aircraft deliveries no publication has ever mentioned 20 deliveries in 2008,you just need to be a little bit better read and not rely on dodgy publications for your info.
For my part and especially in light of all the negative comments on this site I wish Blink every success for a bright future.
Phil as I've said before if you spent less time on PPRune and Googling aircraft movements maybe you could be searching out that elusive finance that apparently Blink are extracting from these poor unfortunate investors. Maybe they simply put together an impressive business plan that attracted the necessary finance.
Last edited by Highflight420; 1st Oct 2008 at 21:17.
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Highflight,
I didn't say we are looking for elusive finance, if we wanted to make the move from Saville Row to Burtons then we would have done so by now, the business plan is already written, we just haven't decided if we have an appetite for it, our current plan is profitable, risk averse and sustainable, plus it is very rewarding to deliver a good product. I'm not sure any of us would be happier if we were much bigger or much more profitable- maybe when the time is right. it's much less PR freindly, but it does keep jobs safe and staff fulfilled and the clients seem to be quite happy too.
Thanks for your business tips on time management....most instructive,
Phil
I didn't say we are looking for elusive finance, if we wanted to make the move from Saville Row to Burtons then we would have done so by now, the business plan is already written, we just haven't decided if we have an appetite for it, our current plan is profitable, risk averse and sustainable, plus it is very rewarding to deliver a good product. I'm not sure any of us would be happier if we were much bigger or much more profitable- maybe when the time is right. it's much less PR freindly, but it does keep jobs safe and staff fulfilled and the clients seem to be quite happy too.
Thanks for your business tips on time management....most instructive,
Phil
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Highflight, try reading all of my post, and not just the bits that upset you the most!
Like most flight crew, you assume that anyone with an informed opinion in aviation is obviously a pilot.......And we all know that to assume makes an ASS of U and ME. I come at from how good the P&L sheet looks, not how shiny the jet is.
As I said in the previous post, I couldn't be bothered to look back through the myriad of posts on this thread, and therefore by definition the figure of 20 A/C was a guess, and totally unsubstantiated. The fact remains though that the whole thing is very optimistic, and is unlikely to succeed unless, as Phil rightly points out, they adjust their business plan to be more in line with the industry. That may prove difficult given the amount of money and exposure they have already committed to.
I'm a very jovial individual, and have a good grasp on the present economic situation. It's easy to spend other peoples money, not so easy to have to give your investors the return on investment you promised them.
Like most flight crew, you assume that anyone with an informed opinion in aviation is obviously a pilot.......And we all know that to assume makes an ASS of U and ME. I come at from how good the P&L sheet looks, not how shiny the jet is.
As I said in the previous post, I couldn't be bothered to look back through the myriad of posts on this thread, and therefore by definition the figure of 20 A/C was a guess, and totally unsubstantiated. The fact remains though that the whole thing is very optimistic, and is unlikely to succeed unless, as Phil rightly points out, they adjust their business plan to be more in line with the industry. That may prove difficult given the amount of money and exposure they have already committed to.
What a miserable individual you are with a very weak grasp of the present economic situation
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Phil,
Time to call a halt to all my comments on this subject, I realise I'm begining to sound like an American evangelist
Suffice to say that I wish anybody and everybody and that includes you and your company Phil( I do know something of your company as I'm friends with one of your more than satisfied pilots), the very best of luck in the present difficult economic situation. Anybody who has had the guts to develop a company and thus provide jobs for the likes of me,a simple line pilot deserves my thanks and continued success.
Here endeth my rantings.
Highflight 420
Time to call a halt to all my comments on this subject, I realise I'm begining to sound like an American evangelist
Suffice to say that I wish anybody and everybody and that includes you and your company Phil( I do know something of your company as I'm friends with one of your more than satisfied pilots), the very best of luck in the present difficult economic situation. Anybody who has had the guts to develop a company and thus provide jobs for the likes of me,a simple line pilot deserves my thanks and continued success.
Here endeth my rantings.
Highflight 420
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A graceful bow indeed HighFlight. Been fun bantering. For the record, I hope that Blink do well, just think they won't.
As a pilot you hopefully you will enjoy doing the flying, and getting to play with these rather expensive toys. Good luck to you.
As a pilot you hopefully you will enjoy doing the flying, and getting to play with these rather expensive toys. Good luck to you.