Netjets (Europe) Interviews - All you need to know about it (threads merged)
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No on hold at the moment and down sizing the incoming 35 aircraft to 15 !! by the way Warrent Buffet never pay pilots with his own credit card but Santulli yes !!
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Yes, they started by firing all the ex-military... first in, first out...!
No, just kidding. NJE did not lay off any flight crew, but the amount of flying has decreased.
For any more information just read the posts at the top of this very page.
No, just kidding. NJE did not lay off any flight crew, but the amount of flying has decreased.
For any more information just read the posts at the top of this very page.
Last edited by Cpt_Schmerzfrei; 27th Oct 2008 at 10:17.
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Just spent some time in the company of one of someone who knows a hell of a lot about NTAS from the inside and among other things they made two very interesting points.
The least important was that it was Buffet who paid the wages bill with his credit card.
The other, more pertinent one, was that they are closer now to laying people off than they have ever been. In fact some people are wondering why they haven't. Someone badly miscalculated crewing levels (let's not delve into the tax issue allegedly behind it) and it remains to be seen for how long the situation will be allowed to continue.
Not something I expected to hear (nor wanted to given how many good people are still in the company) particularly from the person in question but as I said they know far more than I do.
Furloughed cadets anyone?
The least important was that it was Buffet who paid the wages bill with his credit card.
The other, more pertinent one, was that they are closer now to laying people off than they have ever been. In fact some people are wondering why they haven't. Someone badly miscalculated crewing levels (let's not delve into the tax issue allegedly behind it) and it remains to be seen for how long the situation will be allowed to continue.
Not something I expected to hear (nor wanted to given how many good people are still in the company) particularly from the person in question but as I said they know far more than I do.
Furloughed cadets anyone?
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Don't think they will furlough any cadets. They have cost the company a huge butload of money, so im sure they will be counted as employed from the time they started their training. Quite a few people have joined after that.
The company has been overcrewed for a long time. I would say at least 10%.
The cadet program was always a stupidity that certain people in the company, from what i hear with a bit of a "Santa" look, insisted on. I wonder why?
Maybe he should be the first one out the door!!!
The company has been overcrewed for a long time. I would say at least 10%.
The cadet program was always a stupidity that certain people in the company, from what i hear with a bit of a "Santa" look, insisted on. I wonder why?
Maybe he should be the first one out the door!!!
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Not painting the wall any colour at all but merely passing on the sentiments of a very informed person.
Zero sales last month. What if that continues? What happens when the hours on the (already sold) cards expire in a few months time? All I'm saying is it's worth watching.
Coincidentally, after making my last post I heard that one Oxford cadet was told that the company would not be too upset if they found employment elsewhere. Now I'm NOT saying that backs up my admittedly wild guess about furloughs but it's a hell of a coincidence. Think I'll buy a lottery ticket this week
PS. Think you're right about Santa. He does seem to have miscalculated things somewhat. Wouldn't be the first time either.
Zero sales last month. What if that continues? What happens when the hours on the (already sold) cards expire in a few months time? All I'm saying is it's worth watching.
Coincidentally, after making my last post I heard that one Oxford cadet was told that the company would not be too upset if they found employment elsewhere. Now I'm NOT saying that backs up my admittedly wild guess about furloughs but it's a hell of a coincidence. Think I'll buy a lottery ticket this week
PS. Think you're right about Santa. He does seem to have miscalculated things somewhat. Wouldn't be the first time either.
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No surprise
It doesnt really surprise me too much that the amount of flights and sales go down. Proabably NJE is the first to get hurt since the so called global players causing all the mess are the core business. What goes down will come up, no worries and where money is lost others will win. Good to have Uncle Warren in the back. However I hope they are smart enough to offer part-time or unpaid leave finally as requested by so many.
But I guess the big end is yet to come for some of the rather big ones with weaker financial background around Europe. A considerate amount of the population will get the tsunami after the earthquake right in their travel budget in a retarded way while NJE got it immediately.
I hope I am wrong so.
But I guess the big end is yet to come for some of the rather big ones with weaker financial background around Europe. A considerate amount of the population will get the tsunami after the earthquake right in their travel budget in a retarded way while NJE got it immediately.
I hope I am wrong so.
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" Don't think they will furlough any cadets. They have cost the company a huge butload of money, so im sure they will be counted as employed from the time they started their training."
I sincerely hope not, seniority should date from day 1 of INDOC just as it has done for 1000 odd other pilots, why should the cadets be different? As far as investment in them goes they still need a type rating plus some supervised flying before they can earn revenue as far as I understand. Those taken on recently as DEP's are now type rated and capable of operating revenue legs immediately. My sympathy goes out to the cadets, they have however received sponsored flight training and are in posession of something that many will never be able to achieve and will be well placed when things pick up. If they are furloughed than they will have employment to eventually look forward to unlike the many who pay for their training with no prospect of a job.
Until I get notice via BB or formal letter that I am for the axe, ( Last in, brilliant timing as ever...) then I will not be getting too worked up over what are after all rumours, or the wishful spite from the likes of spainfly
As a final shot to the doom and gloom junkies, Santander, the bank that ownes Abbey National have recorded a rise in profits of 5% and BP have announced a rise of 150% over last year. The picture is as usual not entirely black and white whatever some may like to think.
I sincerely hope not, seniority should date from day 1 of INDOC just as it has done for 1000 odd other pilots, why should the cadets be different? As far as investment in them goes they still need a type rating plus some supervised flying before they can earn revenue as far as I understand. Those taken on recently as DEP's are now type rated and capable of operating revenue legs immediately. My sympathy goes out to the cadets, they have however received sponsored flight training and are in posession of something that many will never be able to achieve and will be well placed when things pick up. If they are furloughed than they will have employment to eventually look forward to unlike the many who pay for their training with no prospect of a job.
Until I get notice via BB or formal letter that I am for the axe, ( Last in, brilliant timing as ever...) then I will not be getting too worked up over what are after all rumours, or the wishful spite from the likes of spainfly
As a final shot to the doom and gloom junkies, Santander, the bank that ownes Abbey National have recorded a rise in profits of 5% and BP have announced a rise of 150% over last year. The picture is as usual not entirely black and white whatever some may like to think.
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A matter of coulours
Austrian, The truth of the present situation is between painting a wall in black and wearing rose tinted glasses.
As for the cadets, I have always looked forward to be flying with them but always wondered why we had such a scheme. I am not sure how much money they have cost (thought they were financing their training through a bank and not through NJE apart for some cheaper bits) but the questions some are probably asking themselves are. How much is it going to cost to train them for so many empty sectors ? with a TRI ? Then for so many more sectors before they get released on the line ? That in parallel with the fact that lots of crews are doing a lot less flying than they wished.
Not just with NJE, I think it is time for prudence...
As for the cadets, I have always looked forward to be flying with them but always wondered why we had such a scheme. I am not sure how much money they have cost (thought they were financing their training through a bank and not through NJE apart for some cheaper bits) but the questions some are probably asking themselves are. How much is it going to cost to train them for so many empty sectors ? with a TRI ? Then for so many more sectors before they get released on the line ? That in parallel with the fact that lots of crews are doing a lot less flying than they wished.
Not just with NJE, I think it is time for prudence...
Last edited by PPRuNeUser0215; 28th Oct 2008 at 11:40.
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If there's a quick(ish) recovery generally then we can all breathe a sigh of relief and carry on as nn...nnnn....nnnnor....normal. The smart ones will have learned while the stupid will either have gone under or plough on and be culled next time.
More specifically to this thread NJE will be working their nuts off looking for ways to keep making sales. All for the greater good of course and nothing to do with them being on low basic, high commission contracts. But if the money comes in and saves jobs who cares?
<Dons Lisbon-issue rose tinted specs.> Just a thought on my comment about the cadet. It could be that he was rubbish and they only wanted him to find work elsewhere, not everyone else.
See? Happy thoughts.
More specifically to this thread NJE will be working their nuts off looking for ways to keep making sales. All for the greater good of course and nothing to do with them being on low basic, high commission contracts. But if the money comes in and saves jobs who cares?
<Dons Lisbon-issue rose tinted specs.> Just a thought on my comment about the cadet. It could be that he was rubbish and they only wanted him to find work elsewhere, not everyone else.
See? Happy thoughts.
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signs...
why it is a good sign and why it is not? please explain us...
somebody says the bravo will go away from the fleet in 2009...
Falcons arriving and also hawker 4000 is almost here...
any truth?
D
somebody says the bravo will go away from the fleet in 2009...
Falcons arriving and also hawker 4000 is almost here...
any truth?
D
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Given that the banks are now starting to see their stocks rise along with energy companies, two of NJ's larger customers, they are possibly looking ahead 12 to 18 months and planning for what could eventually be a recovery in the corporate sector. However, there is a nasty recession comming which will affect every country in the world to a greater or lesser extent. This could last at least 12 months or possibly even longer and will see the demise of several more airlines and corporate operators (Sterling yesterday and see also the thread about European business jets). NJ are likely planning to take advantage of this and so may be looking to build up a holding pool of pilots who can be taken on quickly IF and when the need arises, as is the practice amongst many of the larger airlines. There will certainly be plenty of experienced people on the job market over the next year or so, Lufthansa have just taken over BMI and I doubt its because they want the BMI shorthaul operation, they want the slots for their own longhaul services ex LHR which may see even more guys on the market. In the meantime, with the reduced flying program and a rumoured excess of crews plus the cadets, if they actually appear, It is difficult to see why NJ would seek another immediate recruitment round especially as the number of airframes due for delivery next year seems to have been cut back.
Cheerful sod aren't I?
Before anyone starts jumping down my throat, these are only my own opinions and are derived from whatever information is available from the news programmes. I would be delighted to look a total prat and see NJ expand again, I just don't think its going to happen just yet. To be brutally honest, given my own lack of activity I'm hoping that I am still employed in 6 months time. Maybe if I keep very quiet nobody will notice.
Cheerful sod aren't I?
Before anyone starts jumping down my throat, these are only my own opinions and are derived from whatever information is available from the news programmes. I would be delighted to look a total prat and see NJ expand again, I just don't think its going to happen just yet. To be brutally honest, given my own lack of activity I'm hoping that I am still employed in 6 months time. Maybe if I keep very quiet nobody will notice.
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I know its hard but please would you mind to Stop saying infos that you have no real knowledge about.
No, the bravo and 400 will not been sold... they will be replaced one day as they aged by new type or different aircraft as usual with Netjets to keep the fleet less than 7 years old. While you seems to react on a monthly basis dont forget that Netjets strategy are long term, they are chess players, they can delay orders at no cost or switch types, they have always used recesssion in the US to get ready for the restart with an economicaly update offer ahead of the competition who dowsize so much that cannot face demand when its pick up again !! So far the 30 Falcon 2000LX are not cancel as well as the 30 Falcon 7x ,the 4000 is delayed due to JAA certification problems.. so no panic ! Historicaly during recession the poorest live the program (bravo, 400 and card holders) the midsize owners affected downsize and there is entry by the top..eg: airplane owner who found now expensive to own a whole airplane sell and come to Netjets, most of the time on better type eg: CJ owner sign on the hawker 800 for lots less etc...or Flight departement who have to make saving..the top remain unchanged 5 DA7x already sold and 2 more G5 still coming this year to cover LR demand.
Of course like everybody Netjets is affected and yes there are overcrew and the cadets are useless since day one (business wise) but its comparable with the major airlines, BA AF LH can still go through the storm with a simple cold while Sterling Silverjet etc.. catch a deadly pneumonia! it will be the same in business aviation, Netjets Tag Jetav been the majors..the day one of the 3 get really hit the rest of the industry will be probably in limbo.
No, the bravo and 400 will not been sold... they will be replaced one day as they aged by new type or different aircraft as usual with Netjets to keep the fleet less than 7 years old. While you seems to react on a monthly basis dont forget that Netjets strategy are long term, they are chess players, they can delay orders at no cost or switch types, they have always used recesssion in the US to get ready for the restart with an economicaly update offer ahead of the competition who dowsize so much that cannot face demand when its pick up again !! So far the 30 Falcon 2000LX are not cancel as well as the 30 Falcon 7x ,the 4000 is delayed due to JAA certification problems.. so no panic ! Historicaly during recession the poorest live the program (bravo, 400 and card holders) the midsize owners affected downsize and there is entry by the top..eg: airplane owner who found now expensive to own a whole airplane sell and come to Netjets, most of the time on better type eg: CJ owner sign on the hawker 800 for lots less etc...or Flight departement who have to make saving..the top remain unchanged 5 DA7x already sold and 2 more G5 still coming this year to cover LR demand.
Of course like everybody Netjets is affected and yes there are overcrew and the cadets are useless since day one (business wise) but its comparable with the major airlines, BA AF LH can still go through the storm with a simple cold while Sterling Silverjet etc.. catch a deadly pneumonia! it will be the same in business aviation, Netjets Tag Jetav been the majors..the day one of the 3 get really hit the rest of the industry will be probably in limbo.
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The 2000 Classics are now older than 7 years, they havent been replaced?
Unless you are BK, what gives you the right to dismiss other opinions, you make your arguements as if you are the policy maker.
Wake up man, this is a rumour website where people post snippets they hear, so dont ask people to stop posting.
How about you explain why your views are more believable or likely than anyone elses?
Unless you are BK, what gives you the right to dismiss other opinions, you make your arguements as if you are the policy maker.
Wake up man, this is a rumour website where people post snippets they hear, so dont ask people to stop posting.
How about you explain why your views are more believable or likely than anyone elses?