Netjets (Europe) Interviews - All you need to know about it (threads merged)
Yo, between September 2007 und September 2008 I flew approx. 400 hours (2000EASy), but since then my flight time has gone down quite a bit. If it will continue like this, I will have made about 250 to 300 hours until September next year. But only if. It may get better, we have Obama now 
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but again these numbers are just one individual flying; some crews are flying sgnificantely more, depending their route check and such.
Noone has the official figures besides office staff.
But since pilots are generally not authorised to speak in the name of the company; the quality of the above figures are a rendering feeling and not the actual ones.
But everyone know that there was a quiet period, but December will be a good benchmark; how many flights to the Barbados and the Maldives??
Noone has the official figures besides office staff.
But since pilots are generally not authorised to speak in the name of the company; the quality of the above figures are a rendering feeling and not the actual ones.
But everyone know that there was a quiet period, but December will be a good benchmark; how many flights to the Barbados and the Maldives??
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CL300
The figures are not meant in a negative way, just a rough idea for someone who asked what the flying hours are and I stand by my post ealier as an aproximate guess.
Why do you feel it necessary to dismiss a simple point by making such comments as, only the company know official figures- well obviously.
Instead, why dont you try to answer the question someone asked, 'what are the rough figures that the respective fleets are flying?'
Your constant dismissal of actual employees' points of views and statements of,' it is not like that, but I will also not say how it is, because no one knows how it is, because no one knows the official stand point because only the office know the official stand point' is boring.
Lets hear how many hours you think the various fleets are doing.
By the way, we might not have the 'official' hours from the office, but one just has to speak to people on different fleets and to apply their own experience on how many hours they have done in the last 12 months to have a rough idea.
Once again, these hours are not meant as a negative slur agaist NJ which is what you seem to see it as otherwise your stand point with 'official office figures' doesnt seem to make sense.
The figures are not meant in a negative way, just a rough idea for someone who asked what the flying hours are and I stand by my post ealier as an aproximate guess.
Why do you feel it necessary to dismiss a simple point by making such comments as, only the company know official figures- well obviously.
Instead, why dont you try to answer the question someone asked, 'what are the rough figures that the respective fleets are flying?'
Your constant dismissal of actual employees' points of views and statements of,' it is not like that, but I will also not say how it is, because no one knows how it is, because no one knows the official stand point because only the office know the official stand point' is boring.
Lets hear how many hours you think the various fleets are doing.
By the way, we might not have the 'official' hours from the office, but one just has to speak to people on different fleets and to apply their own experience on how many hours they have done in the last 12 months to have a rough idea.
Once again, these hours are not meant as a negative slur agaist NJ which is what you seem to see it as otherwise your stand point with 'official office figures' doesnt seem to make sense.
Last edited by south coast; 6th Nov 2008 at 09:21.
CL300, I am with south coast on this, absolutely. Don't disregard our experiences as the experiences of "individual pilots". At the moment, the majority of crews are sitting around in hotels, standing by. Not that this is bad, our planes and our crews are being paid for.
CL300, I have my doubts whether you are really flying on the line or not. If you were, you knew that it is very quiet and that the above figures are true, on average. At the moment it is just some individuals who are flying more. This is no secret, this is called economic downturn.
CL300, I have my doubts whether you are really flying on the line or not. If you were, you knew that it is very quiet and that the above figures are true, on average. At the moment it is just some individuals who are flying more. This is no secret, this is called economic downturn.
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Monsieur CL300 is a line pilot although having been with the company almost since its inception in Europe he sees himself as ............special. The air of superiority, that swagger, the impression that he's on the inside. All adds to the image.
Just don't bite. He loves the attention.
Just don't bite. He loves the attention.
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forget the anger now...
apart from all of this small talk...is 200 for small fleet the minimum or is really what we can espect? because what i mean is, for someone at the end of the career is perfect, but for someone below 5000 is a pain, imagine having to transition to any major airline after NJE with that kind of hours, u would need 20 years to reach 5000 from cadet.
and
Now we have Obama in USA, do u guys think is good or not? our Mr and Mrs Rich will start flying again?
I know that my passengers in the No1 low fair airline in europe are flying happily. Today i carried 550 pax in 4 flights
D.
and
Now we have Obama in USA, do u guys think is good or not? our Mr and Mrs Rich will start flying again?
I know that my passengers in the No1 low fair airline in europe are flying happily. Today i carried 550 pax in 4 flights
D.
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The redaction in the nomber of hours wee are flying is not only becose peeple are flying less but they are using the aircraft more betterer.
2 tours per month, lets say 20 tours per year ish, 5 days per tour. Thats 100 productive days per year (rounded down). In "the good old days" i did 2 revenue 2 ferry per day for 5 days on small cabin aircraft. That is 5 full days starting half way through day one and finishing half way through day 6 for those who always argue trivial point.
So thats 2 hours ferry per day, if you cut that number by 25% (which is fairly accurate) that one hour daily reduction in ferries over the year will result in over 100 less flying hours per year!
These numbers are rounded down but it is interesting that it hasn't really been mentioned as one of the reasons we are flying less! I think it's a combination of the fact that owners are flying less which means aircraft are staying on the ground and in position for the next revenue.
2 tours per month, lets say 20 tours per year ish, 5 days per tour. Thats 100 productive days per year (rounded down). In "the good old days" i did 2 revenue 2 ferry per day for 5 days on small cabin aircraft. That is 5 full days starting half way through day one and finishing half way through day 6 for those who always argue trivial point.
So thats 2 hours ferry per day, if you cut that number by 25% (which is fairly accurate) that one hour daily reduction in ferries over the year will result in over 100 less flying hours per year!
These numbers are rounded down but it is interesting that it hasn't really been mentioned as one of the reasons we are flying less! I think it's a combination of the fact that owners are flying less which means aircraft are staying on the ground and in position for the next revenue.
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good morning vietnammmmmm!!
I'm flying the line, as everyone else; I'm not a line trainer, I'm not in the office for any workgroup of any kind or else.
Pulling out numbers as a company wide poll is , on my opinion, not correct.
I was in oslo 2 tours ago, and G5 crews were heading everywhere, one for 2 transatlantics, another one to Japan, and ourselves to central Asia. Last tour we were scheduled to middle east again and such...(albeit we did not do this part for other reasons).
And except if my english is so bad and cannot be read; I wrote : 'the quality of the above figures are a rendering feeling and not the actual ones'. This to me means, that these numbers only represent the feeling of the person who wrote them.
I do respect the opinion, the only bias i did add was that these numbers are not the company numbers, since I do not even think they are publishing any to us.
My last tour was on max duty, minimum rest, so if people are staying in hotels, good for them (or not); but others are flying as well; and this can be respected no ?
All coins have two sides...
Last point;
This is a public forum, completely uncontrolled, and regulated in a autocratic way ( the rules are set by the owner of this space and have to be adhered to, without discussion or negotiation). Your contract , and the reminder send with the ERP, earlier this week; clearly mentionned that WE, as pilots are not supposed to communicate in any ways about the company on anything that can touch, not limited to, operations, policies, marketing, etc.
The fact that one or more individual(s) is (are) crossing this line every so often, is , again on my opinion, not appropriate. Outsiders would say : we need to know ! Insiders should stay within the company external communication material. What puzzle me, is that people are trying to fault the company on many points, when for example AF, BA are not questionned like this... we are a 20 years/10 years old company with 1200 pilots and 150 aircrafts; give a break !
If you do not want to fly a 320 or 737, join a corporate operator, Netjets is the best work/time Off , balance on the industry, and in today's market as good as any "regular" carrier ( no I didn't write gooffy)...
My BBerry is open, for more discussion...
I'm flying the line, as everyone else; I'm not a line trainer, I'm not in the office for any workgroup of any kind or else.
Pulling out numbers as a company wide poll is , on my opinion, not correct.
I was in oslo 2 tours ago, and G5 crews were heading everywhere, one for 2 transatlantics, another one to Japan, and ourselves to central Asia. Last tour we were scheduled to middle east again and such...(albeit we did not do this part for other reasons).
And except if my english is so bad and cannot be read; I wrote : 'the quality of the above figures are a rendering feeling and not the actual ones'. This to me means, that these numbers only represent the feeling of the person who wrote them.
I do respect the opinion, the only bias i did add was that these numbers are not the company numbers, since I do not even think they are publishing any to us.
My last tour was on max duty, minimum rest, so if people are staying in hotels, good for them (or not); but others are flying as well; and this can be respected no ?
All coins have two sides...
Last point;
This is a public forum, completely uncontrolled, and regulated in a autocratic way ( the rules are set by the owner of this space and have to be adhered to, without discussion or negotiation). Your contract , and the reminder send with the ERP, earlier this week; clearly mentionned that WE, as pilots are not supposed to communicate in any ways about the company on anything that can touch, not limited to, operations, policies, marketing, etc.
The fact that one or more individual(s) is (are) crossing this line every so often, is , again on my opinion, not appropriate. Outsiders would say : we need to know ! Insiders should stay within the company external communication material. What puzzle me, is that people are trying to fault the company on many points, when for example AF, BA are not questionned like this... we are a 20 years/10 years old company with 1200 pilots and 150 aircrafts; give a break !
If you do not want to fly a 320 or 737, join a corporate operator, Netjets is the best work/time Off , balance on the industry, and in today's market as good as any "regular" carrier ( no I didn't write gooffy)...
My BBerry is open, for more discussion...
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Oh pleaaaaase CL300....
Are you really that sad!
Tell me what info is sensitive to the point of being negative to towards NJ that has been published recently on here?
Do you think people giving a rough assesment of how many hours they are flying a year is sensitive information?
I notice you still dont put a figure on the number of hours you have done in a year, instead, once again, you dodge answering someones question with some silly reason of 'breach of confidentiality'.
Get over yourself....as requested. (apologies Amex)
Are you really that sad!
Tell me what info is sensitive to the point of being negative to towards NJ that has been published recently on here?
Do you think people giving a rough assesment of how many hours they are flying a year is sensitive information?
I notice you still dont put a figure on the number of hours you have done in a year, instead, once again, you dodge answering someones question with some silly reason of 'breach of confidentiality'.
Get over yourself....as requested. (apologies Amex)
Last edited by south coast; 6th Nov 2008 at 09:06.
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That someone says that he/she flew 100,200,800 hours a year is not sensitive or whatever classified. but saying the small fleet is flying that much, the large cabin this much and so on, leading to think that this is a company wide level of activity is not appropriate IMHO.
You might as well copy/paste the snapshot...
you might need an example. Let's assume I write : Falcon's captains are flying 100 hours a year, based on my personal logbook, and Bravo's line trainers are flying 600 hours a year, based on a chat with a colleagues of us.
This is MY perception of the company at THAT time. I should write : SOME captains on the Falcon are flying as low as 100 hours but on the other end I spoke with a line trainer on the bravo who flew 600 last year to date...
Numbers are not friends, depending of the context...
You might as well copy/paste the snapshot...
you might need an example. Let's assume I write : Falcon's captains are flying 100 hours a year, based on my personal logbook, and Bravo's line trainers are flying 600 hours a year, based on a chat with a colleagues of us.
This is MY perception of the company at THAT time. I should write : SOME captains on the Falcon are flying as low as 100 hours but on the other end I spoke with a line trainer on the bravo who flew 600 last year to date...
Numbers are not friends, depending of the context...
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A good bite of the actual situation of real roasters and flight time can be found on the Fascination Aviation blog (thank to its author...nice one).
This pilot has been flying the 560XL since 2003 and is now on the 2000EX...great pictures and complete legs descriptions!
This pilot has been flying the 560XL since 2003 and is now on the 2000EX...great pictures and complete legs descriptions!
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Fact: You will never fly 900 hours a years with NJE
So if you are not close to 3000 hours it will always take a longish while to reach it... That's ok because uprgades take at least 18 months (very minimum for the time being) so if you are flying between 200 and 400 hours, work out how long it could take as a minimum/maximum. Now up to you to decide if it is acceptable or not to hang around at NJE that long and place your bets. Either you go for it and might be a winner (expansion picks up, people leave, etc...). You could aslo have been right in your estimation and your conservative approach has you not disappointed but perhaps happy to with a new, very interesting job, home on a very regular basis (6/5).
Or, finally you were wrong and.... Life is a bitch. Who knows what will really happen ? Join a start up today and you could end up at the top in no (good) time but you could also find yourself on the streets too.
If your aim is to reach 5000 hours to go somewhere else, I suggest NJE is not the place to go to. Save yourself the time and effort and go for/stay with a LowCo. Most of us enjoy doing a bit of flying (a bit more than we are doing at the moment I admit) but many of us have already plenty of hours and are just happy with a good balance between workload and days off.
As for the cadets and how long it will take them to upgrade ? Well even if they were doing 600 hours a year (unlikely really), it will never happen in less than 5 to 6 years. Now if I was using my own hours (relevant to my fleet), I would say it could be quite a bit longer... 7 to 8 years.
Of course after a few years in the company these guy would be entitled to bid for large cabin and could get more hours at a faster pace but so far nobody has been in the position of doing it (company is still young, nobody had to do it, etc...).
So once again.... NETJETS IS NOT FOR HOUR BUILDING !!! (yes I know, I am shouting). Keep it in mind and decide what NJE can do for you if it isn't that. In my case, it is about lifestyle, an exciting job and (being put to the test now), job security.
PS: Thanks Southcoast. And with a nice glass of wine, all will be forgiven
So if you are not close to 3000 hours it will always take a longish while to reach it... That's ok because uprgades take at least 18 months (very minimum for the time being) so if you are flying between 200 and 400 hours, work out how long it could take as a minimum/maximum. Now up to you to decide if it is acceptable or not to hang around at NJE that long and place your bets. Either you go for it and might be a winner (expansion picks up, people leave, etc...). You could aslo have been right in your estimation and your conservative approach has you not disappointed but perhaps happy to with a new, very interesting job, home on a very regular basis (6/5).
Or, finally you were wrong and.... Life is a bitch. Who knows what will really happen ? Join a start up today and you could end up at the top in no (good) time but you could also find yourself on the streets too.
If your aim is to reach 5000 hours to go somewhere else, I suggest NJE is not the place to go to. Save yourself the time and effort and go for/stay with a LowCo. Most of us enjoy doing a bit of flying (a bit more than we are doing at the moment I admit) but many of us have already plenty of hours and are just happy with a good balance between workload and days off.
As for the cadets and how long it will take them to upgrade ? Well even if they were doing 600 hours a year (unlikely really), it will never happen in less than 5 to 6 years. Now if I was using my own hours (relevant to my fleet), I would say it could be quite a bit longer... 7 to 8 years.
Of course after a few years in the company these guy would be entitled to bid for large cabin and could get more hours at a faster pace but so far nobody has been in the position of doing it (company is still young, nobody had to do it, etc...).
So once again.... NETJETS IS NOT FOR HOUR BUILDING !!! (yes I know, I am shouting). Keep it in mind and decide what NJE can do for you if it isn't that. In my case, it is about lifestyle, an exciting job and (being put to the test now), job security.
PS: Thanks Southcoast. And with a nice glass of wine, all will be forgiven
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I guess we differ in opinion on this CL...
If I wanted to join BA and wanted to know how many hours, roughly of course, do they do a year on the short haul fleet and also on the long haul fleet, would that be sensitive information?
Please explain, 'in your honest opinion', why it is sensitive how many hours each fleet is doing, when if someone wanted to, they could use the Eurocontrol website to see how many NJ's flight flew each day for the last year and total them up.
So long as people are not giving false numbers, ie. saying the hours are higher or lower than they actually are, why would telling the truth be a bad thing.
It just seems like anytime anyone writes something on here, that for some reason you consider negative towards NJ you try to play some 'breech of confidentiality' card or 'those are unofficial figures and only the office' has the true facts...
Half the time, and in this case, the hours were not supposed to be a negative comment against NJ, but a help towards someone making a decision as to whether it would be a good career move for him to join our company.
I am a great believer in NJ, I think we have an excellent job and a great company who are trying to move things in a good direction, so I have no reason to write negatively about NJ, but one shouldnt also just report the good bits, and dismiss everything else (which is what you do) but include the ok bits and the bad bits, we are all adults and can make our own decisions.
In my honest opinion, it is not the amount of hours that would put people off joining NJ, it is people and comments like yours that would.
You make a drama out of nothing and raise suspicion for no genuine reason.
If I wanted to join BA and wanted to know how many hours, roughly of course, do they do a year on the short haul fleet and also on the long haul fleet, would that be sensitive information?
Please explain, 'in your honest opinion', why it is sensitive how many hours each fleet is doing, when if someone wanted to, they could use the Eurocontrol website to see how many NJ's flight flew each day for the last year and total them up.
So long as people are not giving false numbers, ie. saying the hours are higher or lower than they actually are, why would telling the truth be a bad thing.
It just seems like anytime anyone writes something on here, that for some reason you consider negative towards NJ you try to play some 'breech of confidentiality' card or 'those are unofficial figures and only the office' has the true facts...
Half the time, and in this case, the hours were not supposed to be a negative comment against NJ, but a help towards someone making a decision as to whether it would be a good career move for him to join our company.
I am a great believer in NJ, I think we have an excellent job and a great company who are trying to move things in a good direction, so I have no reason to write negatively about NJ, but one shouldnt also just report the good bits, and dismiss everything else (which is what you do) but include the ok bits and the bad bits, we are all adults and can make our own decisions.
In my honest opinion, it is not the amount of hours that would put people off joining NJ, it is people and comments like yours that would.
You make a drama out of nothing and raise suspicion for no genuine reason.
Last edited by south coast; 6th Nov 2008 at 10:55.
Half the time, and in this case, the hours were not supposed to be a negative comment against NJ, but a help towards someone making a decision as to whether it would be a good career move for him to join our company.
I am a great believer in NJ, I think we have an excellent job and a great company who are trying to move things in a good direction, so I have no reason to write negatively about NJ, but one shouldnt also just report the good bits, and dismiss everything else (which is what you do) but include the ok bits and the bad bits, we are all adults and can make our own decisions.
I am a great believer in NJ, I think we have an excellent job and a great company who are trying to move things in a good direction, so I have no reason to write negatively about NJ, but one shouldnt also just report the good bits, and dismiss everything else (which is what you do) but include the ok bits and the bad bits, we are all adults and can make our own decisions.
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hello everybody,
It's good to have the opportunity to share our point of view all together.
I would add mine if you mind :
I personally enjoy very much flying for NJ because flights are all different, interesting and challenging. So far, this job is not boring and people are very nice to work with.
However, I have a family, 2 children, and life is expensive. Saying that I live comfortably with my FO salary would be wrong. We all went in NJ to be a captain because we all think that an F0 position (salary with no seniority and no pension scheme) is not enough on a long term point of view.
I also think that NJ will reach, one day, its final size. We are probably/perhaps not far from it.
Then, what's going on with all the experienced FO's waiting for a better salary ?
Just imagine that flying a Falcon with a PIC salary is fantastic and would be a dream for me. Unfortunately, I just fly the smallest aircraft in NJ... I can't see any light beyond the horizon, and we don't fly anymore (did 3h total in october...).
So, when you have the opportunity to go elsewhere for a better salary, whatever is the interest of the job, I would go. Because my family needs me, and I need to give them a better life. We never go on hollidays, I don't have any pension, we never go to the restaurant, ...etc . Loosing per diem because I did only 9 duty days in october is also a big problem...
let's keep however a good hope.
;-)
It's good to have the opportunity to share our point of view all together.
I would add mine if you mind :
I personally enjoy very much flying for NJ because flights are all different, interesting and challenging. So far, this job is not boring and people are very nice to work with.
However, I have a family, 2 children, and life is expensive. Saying that I live comfortably with my FO salary would be wrong. We all went in NJ to be a captain because we all think that an F0 position (salary with no seniority and no pension scheme) is not enough on a long term point of view.
I also think that NJ will reach, one day, its final size. We are probably/perhaps not far from it.
Then, what's going on with all the experienced FO's waiting for a better salary ?
Just imagine that flying a Falcon with a PIC salary is fantastic and would be a dream for me. Unfortunately, I just fly the smallest aircraft in NJ... I can't see any light beyond the horizon, and we don't fly anymore (did 3h total in october...).
So, when you have the opportunity to go elsewhere for a better salary, whatever is the interest of the job, I would go. Because my family needs me, and I need to give them a better life. We never go on hollidays, I don't have any pension, we never go to the restaurant, ...etc . Loosing per diem because I did only 9 duty days in october is also a big problem...
let's keep however a good hope.
;-)
Hi Fred,
you must have real financial problems or how can't you live on +3,300 EUR net income per month? Or do you have to pay 2,000 EUR for your rent or mortgage? Serious question.
you must have real financial problems or how can't you live on +3,300 EUR net income per month? Or do you have to pay 2,000 EUR for your rent or mortgage? Serious question.
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Hi,
it depends where you live.
If you live single in a small city, you are a king.
I you have a family living in Paris, it's different... Yes i have to pay 1700 a month to livebut in a 100m2 appartement. London is also very expensive.
I am not complaining, this is my choice. I just say that in my situation I can't have a good lifestyle with this salary.
1700 for house
1000 for food
700 for different charges (insurance, tax,...)
500 for children
0 extras ...
YES, life has become strongly expensive !
but don't worry, I have another option for 2009 ...
it depends where you live.
If you live single in a small city, you are a king.
I you have a family living in Paris, it's different... Yes i have to pay 1700 a month to livebut in a 100m2 appartement. London is also very expensive.
I am not complaining, this is my choice. I just say that in my situation I can't have a good lifestyle with this salary.
1700 for house
1000 for food
700 for different charges (insurance, tax,...)
500 for children
0 extras ...
YES, life has become strongly expensive !
but don't worry, I have another option for 2009 ...
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I would add this :
If you think you can live comfortably with 3300 net, then what about 6000 for a single ?! ..... My god, single captains are really the kings in NJ !
If you think you can live comfortably with 3300 net, then what about 6000 for a single ?! ..... My god, single captains are really the kings in NJ !
Last edited by fred_bgt; 6th Nov 2008 at 15:24.
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Other conditions...
I've searched these forums but couldn't find the answers to the following questions:
- does NJE Europe offer part-time contracts?
- how often are you able to do standby duty at home instead of a hotel?
- how often are you required to fly a night-flight?
- is it possible to influence which aircraft type you are initially sent to? (I'm trying to avoid long-haul/thru-the-night-flight ops)
Thanks for any replies.
- does NJE Europe offer part-time contracts?
- how often are you able to do standby duty at home instead of a hotel?
- how often are you required to fly a night-flight?
- is it possible to influence which aircraft type you are initially sent to? (I'm trying to avoid long-haul/thru-the-night-flight ops)
Thanks for any replies.