Netjets (Europe) Interviews - All you need to know about it (threads merged)
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Flynavy
does NJE Europe offer part-time contracts? - Not at present
- how often are you able to do standby duty at home instead of a hotel? -Depends what rostering want and the needs of the day. If you are training you can spend a lot of time on home standby, good for the decorating though.
- how often are you required to fly a night-flight?- Depends if/when the owners want to fly at night.
- is it possible to influence which aircraft type you are initially sent to? (I'm trying to avoid long-haul/thru-the-night-flight ops) - No. You are sent where needed. At the present the emphasis seems to be on long range/large cabin. Could change of course.
Hope this helps
does NJE Europe offer part-time contracts? - Not at present
- how often are you able to do standby duty at home instead of a hotel? -Depends what rostering want and the needs of the day. If you are training you can spend a lot of time on home standby, good for the decorating though.
- how often are you required to fly a night-flight?- Depends if/when the owners want to fly at night.
- is it possible to influence which aircraft type you are initially sent to? (I'm trying to avoid long-haul/thru-the-night-flight ops) - No. You are sent where needed. At the present the emphasis seems to be on long range/large cabin. Could change of course.
Hope this helps
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hello,
- NJ does not offer part-time contracts for the time being, but it is requested by some crews
- there is no regulation concerning the number of stby home or hotel you can do. scheduling does not take into account this criteria.
- there is a regulation on the night flights you might have to do. it's a bit too technical to explain here.
- it is NOT possible to influence the choice of your first aircraft. NJ is assigning you to a fleet depending on his requirements at the moment of your recruitment. However, it is very common to be on a small/mid-size cabin aircraft, since NJ has got a lot of them.
- NJ does not offer part-time contracts for the time being, but it is requested by some crews
- there is no regulation concerning the number of stby home or hotel you can do. scheduling does not take into account this criteria.
- there is a regulation on the night flights you might have to do. it's a bit too technical to explain here.
- it is NOT possible to influence the choice of your first aircraft. NJ is assigning you to a fleet depending on his requirements at the moment of your recruitment. However, it is very common to be on a small/mid-size cabin aircraft, since NJ has got a lot of them.
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Thanks northernboy
Speaking for yourself though (or your colleagues if you know), how often on average can you standby from home and how often would you night fly per month?
Speaking for yourself though (or your colleagues if you know), how often on average can you standby from home and how often would you night fly per month?
Just to complement the previous two replies regarding type of aircraft: you cannot choose the type when you enter the company. But once you have enough seniority you can change fleet to the desired type, if it is available. We have a Career Progression Programme online where you can see you seniority number and you can enter your fleet-preference for the day you are eligible for a change.
@Fred: I see. I know, Paris is expensive, but I could not imagine that you have to pay 1,700 EUR per month for a 100m2 apartment. Ok, I currently pay 2,000 EUR per month for a 100m2 apartment in a city, but in 3 years I will have paid back my loan and this deduction will be gone. Normally in my area you pay 700 to 900 EUR per month as rent, that is acceptable. If I did not have the money I would have to move somewhere else and if you even have an option for 2009 where you can earn more money, then good on you! I hope it will work out, although I personally would not NJE anymore unless something really bad happens.
@Fred: I see. I know, Paris is expensive, but I could not imagine that you have to pay 1,700 EUR per month for a 100m2 apartment. Ok, I currently pay 2,000 EUR per month for a 100m2 apartment in a city, but in 3 years I will have paid back my loan and this deduction will be gone. Normally in my area you pay 700 to 900 EUR per month as rent, that is acceptable. If I did not have the money I would have to move somewhere else and if you even have an option for 2009 where you can earn more money, then good on you! I hope it will work out, although I personally would not NJE anymore unless something really bad happens.
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for me, it is not a constant figure. Few months ago I used to fly every duty day. In Ocotber, I did 9 duty days on 18 planned. But this cannot make an average of course. You have to consider business aviation as very flexible since we fly on the customer's demand. But NJ has a very good rostering system which allows you to plan your flight activity a month prior.
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@Eatmyshorts :
I will not discuss on the cost of an appartment in Paris, but I know how much is an appartment in Paris, I was born here and I grew up here... Your prices are effective in Dijon, Toulouse, Lille, Strasbourg,...etc but not Paris downtown. Or you have to choose a HLM (low fare appartments for low salary people) in 20e arrondissement for 300-400 a month, but I will not live there (thanks god for my children).
I will not move because I am not alone (wife & children), and I can't explain you all the personnal reasons (I have already moved 12 times in my life...). Again it's my choice, and I accept the constraints.
I just say 3400 net is not enough at 40yrs old with the experience we have. A very good friend of mine has nearly three times this salary net as an FO in a big company ... The difference is too big. I know they are huge differences on the market, and that's why I will probably leave, because the upgrade is too uncertain for me, and I can't wait anymore (seniority~700).
This will be with regret of course because I like very much NJ operation and people in the company. I would say NJ is a great company in which I would work for a long time if I would be a captain, or if a seniority salary scheme would be implemented. I can't upgrade on a bigger fleet, I can't be a line trainer, I can't get any responsabilities and I used to have some in the past. And I am so passionnate for flying that stby is a nightmare for me. I prefer to work too much than being on stby several days in a hotel. I used to work a lot in the past and I was very happy with it.
Just to clarify, I am not blaiming NJ. I love it. But the crisis and my current position leads me to this choice. I think people who joined NJ before 2006/7 are now in a very good position in NJ because their seniority has increased so fast, and some of them got their position in a very short time (PIC in 6 months, line trainer in 1 year, and so on). This time is ended.
What's going on now with the FO's flying a non-APUed aircraft for about 10 to 15 hours a month maximum ? did you think about them ? I know a couple of them with a seniority ~700 like me. I hope you will understand my point of view then ... I am not the only one to think like this. Of course the captains are not concerned ...
The solution would be to set a seniority salary scheme which ensures an FO to earn sufficiently his life on a long term, depending on his experience. I think things are really going to change in a short term in NJ.
I will not discuss on the cost of an appartment in Paris, but I know how much is an appartment in Paris, I was born here and I grew up here... Your prices are effective in Dijon, Toulouse, Lille, Strasbourg,...etc but not Paris downtown. Or you have to choose a HLM (low fare appartments for low salary people) in 20e arrondissement for 300-400 a month, but I will not live there (thanks god for my children).
I will not move because I am not alone (wife & children), and I can't explain you all the personnal reasons (I have already moved 12 times in my life...). Again it's my choice, and I accept the constraints.
I just say 3400 net is not enough at 40yrs old with the experience we have. A very good friend of mine has nearly three times this salary net as an FO in a big company ... The difference is too big. I know they are huge differences on the market, and that's why I will probably leave, because the upgrade is too uncertain for me, and I can't wait anymore (seniority~700).
This will be with regret of course because I like very much NJ operation and people in the company. I would say NJ is a great company in which I would work for a long time if I would be a captain, or if a seniority salary scheme would be implemented. I can't upgrade on a bigger fleet, I can't be a line trainer, I can't get any responsabilities and I used to have some in the past. And I am so passionnate for flying that stby is a nightmare for me. I prefer to work too much than being on stby several days in a hotel. I used to work a lot in the past and I was very happy with it.
Just to clarify, I am not blaiming NJ. I love it. But the crisis and my current position leads me to this choice. I think people who joined NJ before 2006/7 are now in a very good position in NJ because their seniority has increased so fast, and some of them got their position in a very short time (PIC in 6 months, line trainer in 1 year, and so on). This time is ended.
What's going on now with the FO's flying a non-APUed aircraft for about 10 to 15 hours a month maximum ? did you think about them ? I know a couple of them with a seniority ~700 like me. I hope you will understand my point of view then ... I am not the only one to think like this. Of course the captains are not concerned ...
The solution would be to set a seniority salary scheme which ensures an FO to earn sufficiently his life on a long term, depending on his experience. I think things are really going to change in a short term in NJ.
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fred_bgt,
Are we talking moving to Air France in your case?
I can't imagine another fractional or private aircraft operator that is MORE secure than NJE at this time. Maybe same but not more secure. Sure, anything could happen and NJE is not invulnerable, but the global economy could negatively impact any airline or fractional. Nobody is safe.
I would say pick a "reasonably" stable and secure operation and stick with it as long as possible. NJE has strong backing (Warren Buffett) and a good reputation (customers won't panic that NJE could maybe fail). I personally wouldn't leave NJE right now if I were in your shoes - but I am not in your shoes - so, good luck to you.
Are we talking moving to Air France in your case?
I can't imagine another fractional or private aircraft operator that is MORE secure than NJE at this time. Maybe same but not more secure. Sure, anything could happen and NJE is not invulnerable, but the global economy could negatively impact any airline or fractional. Nobody is safe.
I would say pick a "reasonably" stable and secure operation and stick with it as long as possible. NJE has strong backing (Warren Buffett) and a good reputation (customers won't panic that NJE could maybe fail). I personally wouldn't leave NJE right now if I were in your shoes - but I am not in your shoes - so, good luck to you.
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@Iver
Thanks Iver !
Nice to talk to me like you did.
However, I can't tell all the criteria that lead me to take this option. Indeed, you aren't in my shoes ... I need hours to upgrade and I don't fly. I need a clear future and I don't have it. I need a pension and I don't have any. I need to express myself on a LHS and I can't do it now, neither tomorrow for sure.
I think those who are entering NJ now must be young and patient ...
Thanks Iver !
Nice to talk to me like you did.
However, I can't tell all the criteria that lead me to take this option. Indeed, you aren't in my shoes ... I need hours to upgrade and I don't fly. I need a clear future and I don't have it. I need a pension and I don't have any. I need to express myself on a LHS and I can't do it now, neither tomorrow for sure.
I think those who are entering NJ now must be young and patient ...
Last edited by fred_bgt; 6th Nov 2008 at 17:22.
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Fred, I see where you are coming from and I agree with you, although I was lucky to join in 06 and do not fall in your category.
I have no doubt there are better paid jobs outside NJE for guys with experience (sounds like it is your case) and I have no doubt there are companies/owners as good or better than NJE.
Maybe not that many but for those who know a little bit, with the right exprience and/or type rating, opportunities exist.
As long as one make sure it is really the case and not just in appearance, I would have considered doing what you hav in mind, present situation in mind. Saying that I would have done it is an other story... I often get excited about that kind of things but in my very personal case, it is not worth it. For other people, different experiences, lives etc... Maybe it is a good idea, maybe not. You won't know for sure until you are there...
In my opinion, traditionally, NJE has, in the past, lost Captains rather than FOs. With the current climate, I will not be surprised to see more people like Fred (say a year in NJE), leaving NJE.
I am not sure the company will be too bothered because of the present crewing levels but in the long term (when things pick up again or when the spring/summer time arrive), they might find it a disadvantage.
I agree also that in times like these, NJE and other than for a relative job security (not everybody value this the same way), NJE does not have what would make it a long term employer. A pension, a salary scale etc... Are things which come to mind. But it is quite possible that NJE does not mind that too much as like I said above, since less crew might not be a bad thing (in their mind). They may gamble on the fact that, should the market pick up, they, once again, will be able to attract people quite quickly (enough ?).
So I understand Fred&Co. It is easier for us, the quickly promoted, the "on the right type" guys, to express our disbelief towards these guys but it doesn't mean we are right and they are wrong.
Caution should be the word in the street though.
Once again, this is Aviation... With its ups, its downs. Its lucky days, its unfortunate ones and so on.
Good luck whatever you decide to do.
I have no doubt there are better paid jobs outside NJE for guys with experience (sounds like it is your case) and I have no doubt there are companies/owners as good or better than NJE.
Maybe not that many but for those who know a little bit, with the right exprience and/or type rating, opportunities exist.
As long as one make sure it is really the case and not just in appearance, I would have considered doing what you hav in mind, present situation in mind. Saying that I would have done it is an other story... I often get excited about that kind of things but in my very personal case, it is not worth it. For other people, different experiences, lives etc... Maybe it is a good idea, maybe not. You won't know for sure until you are there...
In my opinion, traditionally, NJE has, in the past, lost Captains rather than FOs. With the current climate, I will not be surprised to see more people like Fred (say a year in NJE), leaving NJE.
I am not sure the company will be too bothered because of the present crewing levels but in the long term (when things pick up again or when the spring/summer time arrive), they might find it a disadvantage.
I agree also that in times like these, NJE and other than for a relative job security (not everybody value this the same way), NJE does not have what would make it a long term employer. A pension, a salary scale etc... Are things which come to mind. But it is quite possible that NJE does not mind that too much as like I said above, since less crew might not be a bad thing (in their mind). They may gamble on the fact that, should the market pick up, they, once again, will be able to attract people quite quickly (enough ?).
So I understand Fred&Co. It is easier for us, the quickly promoted, the "on the right type" guys, to express our disbelief towards these guys but it doesn't mean we are right and they are wrong.
Caution should be the word in the street though.
Once again, this is Aviation... With its ups, its downs. Its lucky days, its unfortunate ones and so on.
Good luck whatever you decide to do.
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Thks AMEX for your understanding. I doubt NJ won't care about leaving people, especially not the worst ...Because who finds a job today is not the worst.
My decision belongs to me and reflects my situation only. However, I met many FO's with some kind of threat or uncertainty in NJ for the next couple of years, especially those who just went in. Should NJ communicate more about it ?...
I don't have the answer and it's not my job.
Time of quick upgrade has ended. Anyway, this time had to come one day. It's today. Perhaps tomorrow will be better, who knows ? nobody. This is the reason why I think NJ should plan a long term career plan for its crews, PIC & FO, with a salary scale based on seniority. Recruiting experienced pilots has a price. Offering them a RHS for a long time with no pension might not be the ideal way to keep a good image of the company on the market for the future.
NJ is a fantastic company. Instead of attracting pilots on the quick command position opportunity, why not setting a real attractive package and selecting the most experienced pilots in Europe ?
My decision belongs to me and reflects my situation only. However, I met many FO's with some kind of threat or uncertainty in NJ for the next couple of years, especially those who just went in. Should NJ communicate more about it ?...
I don't have the answer and it's not my job.
Time of quick upgrade has ended. Anyway, this time had to come one day. It's today. Perhaps tomorrow will be better, who knows ? nobody. This is the reason why I think NJ should plan a long term career plan for its crews, PIC & FO, with a salary scale based on seniority. Recruiting experienced pilots has a price. Offering them a RHS for a long time with no pension might not be the ideal way to keep a good image of the company on the market for the future.
NJ is a fantastic company. Instead of attracting pilots on the quick command position opportunity, why not setting a real attractive package and selecting the most experienced pilots in Europe ?
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Completely Agree with you Fred, Being a FO isnt at all disgracefull if you can see your seniority and salary growing and maybe having responsabilities and other special benefits with time in the company. Even in Low Cost you have things like that. Of course, life is as boring as it gets in a low cost.
D.
I am 27, patient and passionate for NJ, but still depends where u come from. I am in front of a difficult choice now. Low Cost at home for another 1 year and then maybe command 737 and bye bye forever to NJE (turn down their offer) or come into NJE now and say see you later to B737 maybe if i dont like the NJE life. Difficult, but time is running out and tomorrow i have to decide.
D.
I am 27, patient and passionate for NJ, but still depends where u come from. I am in front of a difficult choice now. Low Cost at home for another 1 year and then maybe command 737 and bye bye forever to NJE (turn down their offer) or come into NJE now and say see you later to B737 maybe if i dont like the NJE life. Difficult, but time is running out and tomorrow i have to decide.
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One of the last in, for a while?
Hello, all. I start on Monday and, despite all the doom & gloom and rumours of no more recruitment for a while, a bit longer in the rhs etc etc, I can't wait to get started.
Look forward to meeting some of you on Monday!
Cheers
GnP
Look forward to meeting some of you on Monday!
Cheers
GnP
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If the company doesnt find a solution for us experienced FO's for a LHS or salary compensation, then I know a few guys that will leave including myself.
I'll give it 2 more months. The FO pay is good for 6 months, thats it.
I'll give it 2 more months. The FO pay is good for 6 months, thats it.
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Good luck Piloten, I think thats exactly what they want you to do.
In my opinion, the only reason BK sent out a letter 1month ago saying that there will be very few upgrades in the next 12 months is to see if some people will resign.
His intention was not to keep us justly informed. If we were rightly crewed instead of overcrewed the company would not have released the information about the stoping of upgrades. His intention was to let us know that the door is open to leave! I think they would love it if say, 100-150 pilots resigned tomorrow.
I would guess that they don't want to lay people off yet, since it looks bad for the company.
One of the latest rumours is that NJ is considering part time. I wonder why?
I can imagine that if it finally happens, they will say they are doing it for us,
to keep us happy since we have been asking for it for a long time.
In my opinion, the only reason BK sent out a letter 1month ago saying that there will be very few upgrades in the next 12 months is to see if some people will resign.
His intention was not to keep us justly informed. If we were rightly crewed instead of overcrewed the company would not have released the information about the stoping of upgrades. His intention was to let us know that the door is open to leave! I think they would love it if say, 100-150 pilots resigned tomorrow.
I would guess that they don't want to lay people off yet, since it looks bad for the company.
One of the latest rumours is that NJ is considering part time. I wonder why?
I can imagine that if it finally happens, they will say they are doing it for us,
to keep us happy since we have been asking for it for a long time.
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I agree with much of Suchiman's post, although I don't think it is that cynical. BK had to tell us something as I think we would have noticed the upgrades being stopped. All the same, I'm sure he wouldn't be crying if about 100 walked.
If that does happen it might result in a different policy to reward FO seniority. Mind you when I joined last year this site was rife with pilots bumping gums and supposedly about to walk over the new contract...........
If that does happen it might result in a different policy to reward FO seniority. Mind you when I joined last year this site was rife with pilots bumping gums and supposedly about to walk over the new contract...........
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I have a feeling NJ are not going to rush to make things better for FO's because we are over crewed, and it is not necessarily NJ's fault.
NJ are also victims of the economic slow down like everyone else, and rather than lay people off, if people feel the 'package' doesnt suit their personal expectations and they decide to leave on their own accord that might be a favourable solution to a difficult situation.
NJ are also victims of the economic slow down like everyone else, and rather than lay people off, if people feel the 'package' doesnt suit their personal expectations and they decide to leave on their own accord that might be a favourable solution to a difficult situation.
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I wanna see you poor and underpaid F/Oīs getting jobs elsewere Paid better !
Where is that ? In G/A ? Propably not ! Unless you are willing to accept a 24/7 standby based operation
Why should it be different with NetJets than with AF, BA, LH ? If you join a Company and expect to Upgrade as a flash then go ahead and let them guarantee it in your contract. If thats not the case and you aint willing to wait, donīt join.
It is ridiculous to just state BK really meant this and that with his last statement
You got the Crystal Ball in front of you ? How do you know ??
If they are so desperate getting rid of crews, why they are then still indocs starting ? They could easy tell people like Damiak to stay at home !!
Instead of ppl beeing happy not getting layed off in NetJets, they complain about not flying and beeing on standby
I know lots of people they would love to be on standby instead of doing hard work every day 
Where is that ? In G/A ? Propably not ! Unless you are willing to accept a 24/7 standby based operation
Why should it be different with NetJets than with AF, BA, LH ? If you join a Company and expect to Upgrade as a flash then go ahead and let them guarantee it in your contract. If thats not the case and you aint willing to wait, donīt join.
It is ridiculous to just state BK really meant this and that with his last statement
You got the Crystal Ball in front of you ? How do you know ?? If they are so desperate getting rid of crews, why they are then still indocs starting ? They could easy tell people like Damiak to stay at home !!
Instead of ppl beeing happy not getting layed off in NetJets, they complain about not flying and beeing on standby
I know lots of people they would love to be on standby instead of doing hard work every day
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Latest news is that december 8 indoc is the last for the time being. They cancelled January and February ones. The people scheduled for those indocs have been informed that they are now in a Holding Pool for next indocs, probably not before 2009's end.
First hand from a pilot scheduled for one of those indoc.
Just to let you guys know,
D
First hand from a pilot scheduled for one of those indoc.
Just to let you guys know,
D