biz jet type rating
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biz jet type rating
i am a low hour ( 290 ) frozen atpl (age 42 ) and was wondering what are my options in regards to the following
1 which type rating would be the best to get, with employment opportunities at the end of it.
2 where can you do the type ratng in question 1.
3 i know netjets want 1500tt, but are there others that would take a low hour with type rating.
4 what are the pitfalls i should look out for if any if going this route. any help or replies greatly appreciated.
1 which type rating would be the best to get, with employment opportunities at the end of it.
2 where can you do the type ratng in question 1.
3 i know netjets want 1500tt, but are there others that would take a low hour with type rating.
4 what are the pitfalls i should look out for if any if going this route. any help or replies greatly appreciated.
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Biz Jet TR
DFS Pilot, I did a TR on a Cessna 550 Bravo last year 260hrs TT, this rating will allow you to fly the 500 / 550 / 560 series citations with basic differences training, it is supposed to be one of the most diverse ratings you can get. Lots of UK operators use these birds so getting a job shouldnt be too difficult (he says 
) Flightsafety are superb for the rating, cheap too in US at mo with exchange rate.
PM me if you want anymore help
) Flightsafety are superb for the rating, cheap too in US at mo with exchange rate. PM me if you want anymore help
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HS 125 type also covers the whole series, $15 200 at Simcom, go through all the motions and end up with a FAA CPL for good measure. One word of advice, do the rating at PIC level, do not do a 2IC/ Co-pilot rating, you might find yourself doing the same thing again in a few years.
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Don't buy a type rating is the best advice! Any job worth having will give you the type rating required. You just have to be patient and persistant. All decent companies employ the person rather than the type rating for ab initio pilots. A type rating with significant experience(500-1000hrs) is a differant story alltogether. From my experience companies that want you to pay your own type rating are under financed and don't last very long!
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sorry should have said i am not looking for replies from the dont buy a type rating brigade ( as this has been covered elsewhere till the cows come home) who already have their creers sorted.
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Waste of money for you to buy a TR...
sermon over/
Get a typerating of which there are alot of airplanes flying around and start small.... you have very low total time so dont expect going straight into something larger than Citations. Not saying it wont happen but... a company running CJs or Citations will most likely take you as they can have you with almost no training costs as an FO. You will also be ready to go NOW.. not in a month whilst you train.
Benefit is that since you have paid yourself, you can just up sticks and leave without being held by a training bond.
ANother thing, if you decide to go corporate, you wont be building hours very quickly, so will wait a loooong time before upgrading to the left seat. So my suggestion would be to pursue other options at the same..ie flight instructing to build hours in quantity.. and bulk up the logbook. Maybe start intruducing yourself around operators of your chosen type as a freelance copilot with a view to a full time postion later maybe. Also you have age on your side.. maturity counts towards moving to a captain postion sooner rather than later.
Why not go airline.. the Lowcosts dont really care about age as you are paying for rating anyway, and the assessment centers only check your bank-balance anyway to see if you can pay.
Anyway.. best of luck and again, dont buy a rating as it be will the wrong one anyway for the job offered .
sermon over/
Get a typerating of which there are alot of airplanes flying around and start small.... you have very low total time so dont expect going straight into something larger than Citations. Not saying it wont happen but... a company running CJs or Citations will most likely take you as they can have you with almost no training costs as an FO. You will also be ready to go NOW.. not in a month whilst you train.
Benefit is that since you have paid yourself, you can just up sticks and leave without being held by a training bond.
ANother thing, if you decide to go corporate, you wont be building hours very quickly, so will wait a loooong time before upgrading to the left seat. So my suggestion would be to pursue other options at the same..ie flight instructing to build hours in quantity.. and bulk up the logbook. Maybe start intruducing yourself around operators of your chosen type as a freelance copilot with a view to a full time postion later maybe. Also you have age on your side.. maturity counts towards moving to a captain postion sooner rather than later.
Why not go airline.. the Lowcosts dont really care about age as you are paying for rating anyway, and the assessment centers only check your bank-balance anyway to see if you can pay.
Anyway.. best of luck and again, dont buy a rating as it be will the wrong one anyway for the job offered .
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thank you all for your replies and keep them coming. to the following
1 if you did do as whoop whoop pull up says and went for a cessna bravo type rating done with flightsafety in USA, is this an faa rating and what do you have to do to convert it to jaa.
2 is there base checks involved in this type of rating and where are these done
3 lpc/opc checks are they like with the majors/ locos
4 any names of biz jet type rating schools appreciated
5what sort of salary can a F.O expect with the biz jet operators
6 what is the average yearly hours flown on biz jets
many thanks to all who have replied and to those who may reply.
7 LRdriver II SO WHAT TYPE WOULD YOU RECOMEND AND WHERE TO DO THIS?
1 if you did do as whoop whoop pull up says and went for a cessna bravo type rating done with flightsafety in USA, is this an faa rating and what do you have to do to convert it to jaa.
2 is there base checks involved in this type of rating and where are these done
3 lpc/opc checks are they like with the majors/ locos
4 any names of biz jet type rating schools appreciated
5what sort of salary can a F.O expect with the biz jet operators
6 what is the average yearly hours flown on biz jets
many thanks to all who have replied and to those who may reply.
7 LRdriver II SO WHAT TYPE WOULD YOU RECOMEND AND WHERE TO DO THIS?
Last edited by dfspilot; 3rd Jun 2007 at 19:45.
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I did a TR on a Cessna 550 Bravo last year 260hrs TT
Recently advertised for BBJ crews, rejected all who applied with a type rating but no hours on type.
There is a valid reason why people advise you not to buy a type rating, but if you dont want to listen, thats totally up to you!
BTW, with your experience level, you wont be able to transfer the FAA rating to JAA, therefore you would have to repeat the rating.
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as usual thread has turned into a DONT BUY A TYPE RATING DEBATE. what i think dfspilot is looking for is information so he can make his own mind up and not the personal opinions of pilots sitting in their comfortable highly paid jobs quoting bbj jobs when this is clearly not even the type he is talking about. as usual with any newly qualified cpl/ir he is just asking about options and where should he go from here so as to move on, like so many others ( remember he wont be the only newbee reading this thread ). so for once could we all get off our high horses and give the guy a break and offer some helpfull advice for a change!!!!!!!!!!!
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thank you istabraq for your reply, but everyone has their own opinion so all opinions good or bad are welcome. i have been looking at lasors about doing the biz jet type rating in USA and have just come across the 500 hour rule which negates the option of going stateside to do it. i suppose the only real option is to do it in europe . BUT WHERE, ANY OPTIONS PLEASE. thank you again for all your replies.
just looked at caa website and according to their list of caa approved type rating conversion courses they list both cae simuflite and flight safety international as jaa approved and therefore caa approved for the cessna 500/550/560. so does this qualify as a type rating in europe or not or am i barking up the wrong tree again.
just looked at caa website and according to their list of caa approved type rating conversion courses they list both cae simuflite and flight safety international as jaa approved and therefore caa approved for the cessna 500/550/560. so does this qualify as a type rating in europe or not or am i barking up the wrong tree again.
Last edited by dfspilot; 26th Apr 2007 at 09:55. Reason: lookerd up caa website for additional info
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If you are looking for a small type like C500 series, you should start with the websites of the providers like flightsafety or Simuflite, look into their international headquarters ( Paris, Farnborough, Dubai, etc.) If looking into a commuter type then same thing. However you should be better off trying to find a job first THEN pay for the rating, the rating is not a key or sesame of any kind it is just a leverage to you CPL/IR/MCC.
On your Jar Licence, you will have to do the base check in the aircraft as well; on top of it IF you find a job after that , you are most likely to go AGAIN in the sim for the OPC, because you were not train to operator standards, EXCEPT if you fly for a private operator, BUT in a C500 you are most likely not going to be paid at ALL!!
I'm not going into the debate shall I or Not; but ANY sensible operator either would pay for your type and bond you; or ask you to pay for it, but you would have a job then ! Remember a lot of the C500 series left the "owner flown single pilot ish market" in favor of the C525, most of them single pilot EXCEPT in commercial ops; but then you are stuck for another OPC/LPC/Line training......
Not an Easy choice; the bottom line is that that you need hours, so go for a year or two instructing, get a FI THEN do your rating ( you might be lucky and meet someone who will help you along the line
)
On your Jar Licence, you will have to do the base check in the aircraft as well; on top of it IF you find a job after that , you are most likely to go AGAIN in the sim for the OPC, because you were not train to operator standards, EXCEPT if you fly for a private operator, BUT in a C500 you are most likely not going to be paid at ALL!!
I'm not going into the debate shall I or Not; but ANY sensible operator either would pay for your type and bond you; or ask you to pay for it, but you would have a job then ! Remember a lot of the C500 series left the "owner flown single pilot ish market" in favor of the C525, most of them single pilot EXCEPT in commercial ops; but then you are stuck for another OPC/LPC/Line training......
Not an Easy choice; the bottom line is that that you need hours, so go for a year or two instructing, get a FI THEN do your rating ( you might be lucky and meet someone who will help you along the line
)
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DFS pilot its people like you that are screwing this industry up and I for one sincerely hope you never get a job with your attitude. I have never paid for a type rating (last check of log book I have 27types) and indeed never will.
I did offer you some advice as to what you really need to do to get that first job but its seems that you are not able to accept sound advice which generally shows a poor attitude and an inability to be trained.
I do recruiting for my employer and I can tell you we will not employ a type rating with no experience on type! ( and we are an operator of the types you are considering) We happily pay for type ratings for the right type of pilot,and cover all expences whislt your under training!
When we look for type rated pilots we have to have at the very least 500hrs on type.
I have said this before to many pilots and will say it again "self sponsoring a type rating is a cancer that needs to be stoped before the terms and conditions suffer any further.
And before you sayits to hard to get a job I always try and give inexperienced pilots a break whenever possible.
I did offer you some advice as to what you really need to do to get that first job but its seems that you are not able to accept sound advice which generally shows a poor attitude and an inability to be trained.
I do recruiting for my employer and I can tell you we will not employ a type rating with no experience on type! ( and we are an operator of the types you are considering) We happily pay for type ratings for the right type of pilot,and cover all expences whislt your under training!
When we look for type rated pilots we have to have at the very least 500hrs on type.
I have said this before to many pilots and will say it again "self sponsoring a type rating is a cancer that needs to be stoped before the terms and conditions suffer any further.
And before you sayits to hard to get a job I always try and give inexperienced pilots a break whenever possible.
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unablereqnavperf , jesus who rattled your cage. remember dfspilot didnt start the whole idea of paying for a type rating, it was started a long time ago by somebody who good or bad should be blamed and if it is the case as you say that no one should pay for a type rating , can you tell me why there are so many trto taking sstr guys and their money with some even closing applications because they are so busy. are they all to sit around waiting on guys like you to GIVE THEM A BREAK. i agree with you about paying for a type rating by the way, i think its criminal that after spending so much time, effort and money that all frozen atpl students do, that it is very difficult to find that first opening. good for you and your 27 type ratings but your attitude is not helpfull. as regards his training, you know nothing about him or anyone elses training ,so how you can make that statement justs shows your arrogance.
unfortunately more and more airlines are going the MOL route and we all know what he would tell you and i to do with our opinions. unfortunately aviation is gone the way of most industries, it is about the bottom line, not the employees /customers. vent your anger ( as it is clearly keeping you up at night ) on the airlines that force us into this position in the first place and then maybe we will listen to your advice. by the way i wouldnt want to work with someone who clearly is so opinionated and unable to treat people with a bit of respect which from your reply you are clearly lacking. i and i am sure dfspilot have read hundreds of posts on pprune regarding all sorts of topics, are all job hunting newbees supposed to pick your post out as being gospel. KEEP YOUR RANTS TO YOURSELF IF YOU CANT BACK IT UP WITH HARD FACTS.GET A LIFE.
unfortunately more and more airlines are going the MOL route and we all know what he would tell you and i to do with our opinions. unfortunately aviation is gone the way of most industries, it is about the bottom line, not the employees /customers. vent your anger ( as it is clearly keeping you up at night ) on the airlines that force us into this position in the first place and then maybe we will listen to your advice. by the way i wouldnt want to work with someone who clearly is so opinionated and unable to treat people with a bit of respect which from your reply you are clearly lacking. i and i am sure dfspilot have read hundreds of posts on pprune regarding all sorts of topics, are all job hunting newbees supposed to pick your post out as being gospel. KEEP YOUR RANTS TO YOURSELF IF YOU CANT BACK IT UP WITH HARD FACTS.GET A LIFE.
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Hi all
Hi
Nothing stirs up a wasp's nest like the ole " what TR should I pay for ", I think its criminal that companys get "us" to do this, but these days me thinks its a necessary evil !
So if I could put my bit in and ask the question
" what type rating would be best for a freelancer to pay for "
I understand that this wouldnt be of any use without a companys agreement to do your OPC/Line training and all that malarky, but im sure some would help out if they knew they were getting a good freelance Captain/FO out of it.
So can we change the question to that.
In answer to the original question ( best TR to pay for )
With your current hrs, mmmmmmmm.............Kingair, but with your hrs you would need a company who operates them Multi Crew, CJ would be a good one, lots of them coming into the country (UK), the C550 would be a good one, lots of them about, im pretty sure you could unfreeze your ATPL with this one, where'as you couldnt with the other 2 mentioned.
Hope this helps !!
Roja
Nothing stirs up a wasp's nest like the ole " what TR should I pay for ", I think its criminal that companys get "us" to do this, but these days me thinks its a necessary evil !
So if I could put my bit in and ask the question
" what type rating would be best for a freelancer to pay for "
I understand that this wouldnt be of any use without a companys agreement to do your OPC/Line training and all that malarky, but im sure some would help out if they knew they were getting a good freelance Captain/FO out of it.
So can we change the question to that.
In answer to the original question ( best TR to pay for )
With your current hrs, mmmmmmmm.............Kingair, but with your hrs you would need a company who operates them Multi Crew, CJ would be a good one, lots of them coming into the country (UK), the C550 would be a good one, lots of them about, im pretty sure you could unfreeze your ATPL with this one, where'as you couldnt with the other 2 mentioned.
Hope this helps !!
Roja
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chlong
You have stated exactly what I was trying to say! Just because some To****s with more cash than ability have gone out and paid for a type rating don't follow on. After all would you jump into a fire just because youre mate has? This practice is degtrading the industry and driving down terms and conditions and as long as pilots do it there are some very poor employers that will take advantage of you when you have bought yourself a job, they usually turn out to be sharks and don't last 5 mins and then leave you broke!
At the moment the job market for pilots is boyant however getting that elusive first job remains difficult even when you by yourself a rating, the only gaurentee you get is that you will be a lot more out of pocket!
When your trying to get that first job you are far better of trying to get into a company doing a related job (ie. ops or crewing) that will give you the oportunity to meet and influence the decision makers in that company and get yourself into a right hand seat!
Rather spend your hard earned cash on getting around and trying to speak to people be persistant but try not to be a nuisance( a difficult balancing act) and eventually you will get a job worth having.
The industry is in danger of melt down at the moment and the type of companies that make you pay for your own rating will go down the swanie and you'll be left stranded.
I've been in this business since 1979 and have seen this all before.
As for the tone of your reply perhaps you would like to reconsider as peopel like me are in a position to employ people like you perhaps you would like to reconsider your responce!!
DFSpilot
PM if you like we can continue this discusion.
You have stated exactly what I was trying to say! Just because some To****s with more cash than ability have gone out and paid for a type rating don't follow on. After all would you jump into a fire just because youre mate has? This practice is degtrading the industry and driving down terms and conditions and as long as pilots do it there are some very poor employers that will take advantage of you when you have bought yourself a job, they usually turn out to be sharks and don't last 5 mins and then leave you broke!
At the moment the job market for pilots is boyant however getting that elusive first job remains difficult even when you by yourself a rating, the only gaurentee you get is that you will be a lot more out of pocket!
When your trying to get that first job you are far better of trying to get into a company doing a related job (ie. ops or crewing) that will give you the oportunity to meet and influence the decision makers in that company and get yourself into a right hand seat!
Rather spend your hard earned cash on getting around and trying to speak to people be persistant but try not to be a nuisance( a difficult balancing act) and eventually you will get a job worth having.
The industry is in danger of melt down at the moment and the type of companies that make you pay for your own rating will go down the swanie and you'll be left stranded.
I've been in this business since 1979 and have seen this all before.
As for the tone of your reply perhaps you would like to reconsider as peopel like me are in a position to employ people like you perhaps you would like to reconsider your responce!!
DFSpilot
PM if you like we can continue this discusion.
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Hang on guys
YO, coming from a low cost operator as I see it,the terms and conditions are gone and as far as i can see are not coming back. So as I have my so called nice comfy number I cannot give out advice, however I was lucky when starting out, to have my rating paid. If as I was starting out today with the same initial burning desire to fly and not much/no other choice i would pay the rating and get on the ladder and maybe after a few years break even.And remember as I do, I would have signed anything gone anywhere to jump out of a c152 and into a B737. So good luck to the next victims and get friendly with your bank manager.
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Hi again
Hi
Right !
As I have already mentioned " paying for your own TR is a necessary evil these days "
Going back to the basic question asked, the guy is 42 with 290 hrs (not in an ops job and does not at his age have the time to), and if im not mistaken..................desperate to get paid to be a pilot, all of us want to get into this industry and do as well as we can, to most, its a life long ambition.
The fact of the matter is that there is more wannabes than there is jobs ! so the basic rule of economics apply's, when the US fleet has docked..................the price rises before the panties fall ! so the airlines at the moment hold the G-string, the day will come when the reverse is true ( me thinks ), then all this pay for your own type rating malarky will be a distant memory, but until then, for us that havent got 27 TR's or been in this game since 1979 and are'nt that well known or established with probably a good reputation(not that I know you), we will have to bite the bullet to get those much required hours before we can hop onto a modern airliner or fancy bizjet.
Stop givin the guy a hard time just because he asked a question which is perfectly valid during these times.
dfspilot....................where are you based ? have you done a survey of the bizjet operators in your area and what is the most popular aircraft ?, this of course would be invaluable in your assesment of which TR to pay for, speak to those operator's see if you can work something out, without jumping first !
Roja
Right !
As I have already mentioned " paying for your own TR is a necessary evil these days "
Going back to the basic question asked, the guy is 42 with 290 hrs (not in an ops job and does not at his age have the time to), and if im not mistaken..................desperate to get paid to be a pilot, all of us want to get into this industry and do as well as we can, to most, its a life long ambition.
The fact of the matter is that there is more wannabes than there is jobs ! so the basic rule of economics apply's, when the US fleet has docked..................the price rises before the panties fall ! so the airlines at the moment hold the G-string, the day will come when the reverse is true ( me thinks ), then all this pay for your own type rating malarky will be a distant memory, but until then, for us that havent got 27 TR's or been in this game since 1979 and are'nt that well known or established with probably a good reputation(not that I know you), we will have to bite the bullet to get those much required hours before we can hop onto a modern airliner or fancy bizjet.
Stop givin the guy a hard time just because he asked a question which is perfectly valid during these times.
dfspilot....................where are you based ? have you done a survey of the bizjet operators in your area and what is the most popular aircraft ?, this of course would be invaluable in your assesment of which TR to pay for, speak to those operator's see if you can work something out, without jumping first !
Roja
Last edited by Roja; 28th Apr 2007 at 00:35.
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Why reject paid for TR
Mutt, why would you reject the guy who paid for his type and thus saved you money, and time.
I am not in favour of the buy it yourself TR, but it does happen.
I am currenly working with a very young guy, who was promised a job if he worked in the hangar created manuals, then paid for his own G5 type rating. I deplore the situation, but fully support him, and hope to mentor him.
Glf
I am not in favour of the buy it yourself TR, but it does happen.
I am currenly working with a very young guy, who was promised a job if he worked in the hangar created manuals, then paid for his own G5 type rating. I deplore the situation, but fully support him, and hope to mentor him.
Glf